The missing centre back mystery

[Cheerio 0]

Whilst all the speculation about strikers and goalkeepers is nice, the glaringly obvious weak are of our team is, worryingly, straight through the centre of our defence. I was never a Malky fan I have to be honest, he was an ok, no nonsense stopper with zero pace and distribution like a Maxwell pension fund, but hey, he did his job. But compared to what we currently have (and ''seem'' to be settling for) the man was a god. Gallacher, Shackell and Doc were abysmal last season, we all knew it, we all said it (save a few who stood by Shacks out of some blind faith) yet there has been NO serious link to any CB''s that I''m aware of.Dear Mr Grant, please dont make us wait until Xmas and its all too late (again). Maybe JO can play there, Etuhu would be an awesome CB though he''s unlikely to get the chance........ but we need to replace GD & JS before the season kicks off surely......

[Bigmarkcanary 0]

I think we''re still being linked with Clarke Carlisle and Alex-John Baptiste aren''t we?

[nutty nigel 7,527]

I agree we definiteley need to sign at least one more quality centreback, and agree with your honest assesment of Malky. However, I still feel Doherty and Shackell could be adequate to challenge at the top of this league. They looked much better players the previous season when playing in front of Greeno which suggests to me that the goalkeeping situation last season played a big part in our defensive shambles. As did the change to zonal defending. (I still believe zonal marking can work because surely the goalkeepers command of his area becomes even more important with that system).

A strong commanding goalkeeper (Marshall?) is the first brick to put in place. Then I would sign an experienced centrback to put pressure on the Doherty/Shackell partnership and then let the best pair play. We would still have Dublin for emergencies.

Now to the midfield...

 

[Hotdog 0]

i think if the mass exodus that is likely to happen at west ham could leave Davenport looking for somewhere and he looked pretty handy when he was here, and hopefully he enjoyed it so would want to come back.

 

[a1canary 0]

I agree and been crying out for a new CB since January. NN and i have had many a debate since on the merits or otherwise of the Doherty Shackell parntership!But i was never that over-awed by Davenport. And i don''t think he did his rep any favours at all at West Ham.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

I have been Crying out for a new one since we got promoted to the premiership. Strange after their good title winning season, but Malky left, and flemming was another year older and needed replacing, we should have done better than Doherty and Helveg

[lucky green trainers 0]

sorry to say i''ve no confidence in the doc/shacks partnership.  sure with osty at right back, marshall in goal (hopefully) our centre-halfs could grow in confidence.  imo, NCFC deserve a commanding centre half to pair with shacks (he''d be a bench choice without dion in the squad for me) to close our leaky defence. the doc should move on - in top form he plays a good game, but he was below par last year - and if he gets injured he takes a long time to get back into top shape and form.  like safs - he''s a luxury we can''t afford.

[Cheerio 0]

I guess the Primus farse was as big a blow to our chances in the Prem as anything.... As for Doc and Sack playing well in front of Green..... never saw it. Shackells, shall we say ''enthusiasm'' meant he was so far out of position most of the time Doc was left to deal with two strikers..... no wonder he looked like a donkey.Shammers will want £3m for their fella.... forget that

[One Flew Over... 33]

I think Malky got out just at the right time to earn him a seemingly legendary status. If he had stayed on insted of Flemming, we would probably all be saying the same things, but about a different player. Does anyone remember when Malky got substituted before half time on a New Year''s Day match (promotion season I think), as he looked far from well...for what seemed like the same reasons as half the people there that day?

Also why does it seem that Shackell and Doherty have not improved "strategically" - as in where to be, what to do when etc. Surely this is stuff that can be coached and doesn''t rely on natural ability. Do we have a defensive coach like a goalkeeping coach?

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="One Flew Over..."]

I think Malky got out just at the right time to earn him a seemingly legendary status. If he had stayed on insted of Flemming, we would probably all be saying the same things, but about a different player. Does anyone remember when Malky got substituted before half time on a New Year''s Day match (promotion season I think), as he looked far from well...for what seemed like the same reasons as half the people there that day?

Also why does it seem that Shackell and Doherty have not improved "strategically" - as in where to be, what to do when etc. Surely this is stuff that can be coached and doesn''t rely on natural ability. Do we have a defensive coach like a goalkeeping coach?

[/quote]

to be fair to Malky, he got 3 promotions in 3 years, and didnt look terrible aged 35 in the premiership!  Agreed though, he was never replaced which has grown his legendary status.  The fact he is reguarly mentioned 3 years later tells me we desperatly need  to bring in a centre back ASAP!!

[ZLF 274]

I do think that the doc/shax partnership has the possibility of securing us promotion as they have more potential than the flem malky one did and they needed seasons to look like they did.  

People continue to overlook that Flem/Malky during the championship season were conceeding goals per game faster than any previous city side for something like 15 years.  What changed was the introduction crouch/hux who put opponents on the back foot so hiding rather than highlighting their pretty obvious flaws - any defence looks better when faced with half as many balls into the box,   it means they have time to re-position and set themselves for when the next attack did come;  and setting themselves is what Malky was best at organising and is the ONLY attribute missing from our current and much younger partnership - who on passing, pace and strength in the air match their older comparables who have been dubbed with the rose tinted spectacles of passage of time.  Howwever I am happy to be ridiculed (again) on this one.

Having said all that I have to agree with everyone else that centre back is THE priority signing of the close season (assuming we get Marshall) as to enter another season with only Dublin as cover would be extreme folly.  

 

 

  

[nutty nigel 7,527]

[quote user="One Flew Over..."]

Also why does it seem that Shackell and Doherty have not improved "strategically" - as in where to be, what to do when etc. Surely this is stuff that can be coached and doesn''t rely on natural ability. Do we have a defensive coach like a goalkeeping coach?

[/quote]

This is a fair point but as I stated in my post  I believe that the goalkeeping shambles of last season and trying to implement zonal marking with a goalkeeper who couldn''t win the ball in any zones made Doherty and Shackell look worse than they were. Doherty got POS the previous season playing in front of Greeno.

 

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Bigmarkcanary"]I think we''re still being linked with Clarke Carlisle and Alex-John Baptiste aren''t we?[/quote]

Baptiste signed a new 3year contract with Mansfield the other day.

[One Flew Over... 33]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]got 3 promotions in 3 years, and didnt look terrible aged 35 in the premiership!  Agreed though, he was never replaced which has grown his legendary status.  The fact he is reguarly mentioned 3 years later tells me we desperatly need  to bring in a centre back ASAP!![/quote]

I''m not trying to destroy his reputation, but if you type in Malky to the search engine on this board, and go to the last page with posts from 2003, the majority of them seem to be negative...!

"assuming Malky can get it roughly in the right direction", "-a big, clumsy defender - we already have Malky for God''s sake!!", "Malky, seems to be well off his game", "Malky looked embarrasing slow"

Interesting point about the zonal marking. Grant clearly saw the main problem as lying with the keeper. I think Doherty has been underated by many. Onl a couple of years ago he was being stuck up front, at least now he is played in his favoured position.

But yes overall we need at least one more central defender, as back up if not anything else. We have Dion, but he wants to play as a forward. Plus will he really be training in Birmingham? How does that help out our younger players on a day to day basis? How old is Des Walker now? (ok just checked wikipeda..he is 41 and got arrested after his testimonial for Sheff Wds!). Someone with some pace and distribution would be ideal.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

We need a new,strong, consistent, experienced centre half (ideally in the mould of a Linvoy Primus/Darren Moore) who is more than a step ahead of either Doherty or Shackell, who should be left to compete with our new recruit for the other spot. Dublin can be used in an emergency but should be used primarily in his preferred position as a back-up striker.

I had reported a few weeks ago on this site that they had doubts at Derby as to whether Darren Moore could still hack it in the prem. I suppose that if we had not been in such an almighty rush to get rid of Earnie we could have negotiated a beneficial player exchange, but that is now water under the bridge.

We desparately need a successor in the line of Butler, Stringer, Forbes, Watson, Bruce, Linighan, Butterworth et al.

One hopes that Peter Grant realises this, but quite frankly I am not too confident.

OTBC

 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="One Flew Over..."]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]got 3 promotions in 3 years, and didnt look terrible aged 35 in the premiership!  Agreed though, he was never replaced which has grown his legendary status.  The fact he is reguarly mentioned 3 years later tells me we desperatly need  to bring in a centre back ASAP!![/quote]

I''m not trying to destroy his reputation, but if you type in Malky to the search engine on this board, and go to the last page with posts from 2003, the majority of them seem to be negative...!

[/quote]

true - but you can''t argue with 3 promotions in 3 seasons!  A solid player at this level.

[quote user="zippersleftfoot"]

People continue to overlook that Flem/Malky during the championship season were conceeding goals per game faster than any previous city side for something like 15 years. 

[/quote]

You are basing this on 5 or so games.  Take 5 games into last season and our team looked like they could walk this division. The facts state that we have conceded more goals these last two years than at any point in the last 10 years of championship football!!