Arthur Whittle 0 Posted June 10, 2007 Im starting to see things a little different and am prepared listen to views in a diffent light. Ive realised some people have very good views on Delia and to be completely honest i dont have the answers to all your questions. I would like to turn things round a little and ask you why does Delia deserve our backing? I know some have said the turners have invested, but i dont class a 2m loan as investment. Im still not convinced its better to have Delia than seek a takeover/majoruty investment but am open to your thoughts. Theres a fella currently trying to set up a website who is going to run the campaign and i believe he is interested in taliking to the press and the club in a way that the ncisc have faled to do. Im not changing my stance or opinions as i feel we are going nowhere under the current regime the only way i may change my views is if there was serious investment during the summer as i feel it would bring back the feel good factor and maybe open up a few eyes around the country that norwich ARE ambitious and would have the knock on effect of signing decent players/investment. Thanks to all those who gave me get well messages and to all those who sent abusive messages about my health and campaign-get stuffed idiots! Smudger, Wayne and co ill leave a message on here when i know more about the website. CheersMr A.Whittle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Polar 0 Posted June 10, 2007 your growing on me, good to see someone who will listen to the other side of an argument Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canary cherub 1 Posted June 10, 2007 The real reason Delia is a problem is that she has become bigger than the club. However rich and famous the owner is, that just shouldn''t happen. It doesn''t bode well for the future, I am sorry to say. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stevie Wonder 0 Posted June 10, 2007 [quote user="Arthur Whittle"]Im starting to see things a little different and am prepared listen to views in a diffent light. Ive realised some people have very good views on Delia and to be completely honest i dont have the answers to all your questions. I would like to turn things round a little and ask you why does Delia deserve our backing? I know some have said the turners have invested, but i dont class a 2m loan as investment. Im still not convinced its better to have Delia than seek a takeover/majoruty investment but am open to your thoughts. Theres a fella currently trying to set up a website who is going to run the campaign and i believe he is interested in taliking to the press and the club in a way that the ncisc have faled to do. Im not changing my stance or opinions as i feel we are going nowhere under the current regime the only way i may change my views is if there was serious investment during the summer as i feel it would bring back the feel good factor and maybe open up a few eyes around the country that norwich ARE ambitious and would have the knock on effect of signing decent players/investment. Thanks to all those who gave me get well messages and to all those who sent abusive messages about my health and campaign-get stuffed idiots! Smudger, Wayne and co ill leave a message on here when i know more about the website. CheersMr A.Whittle[/quote]Congratulations. There are 2 sides to every debate.Personally, I sit somewhere in the middle on the whole Delia issue (I believe it''s called the fence....). I am prepared to acknowledge that in the past she has done some good things for this club but no-one in their right mind can say that the board have got much right in the last couple of years. I think the board was getting stale and to the end of its "natural life" much like Worthy had before them. However, they have taken steps to freshen up the board with the appointment of the Turner''s. There seems to be a reliable rumour that the investment of the Turner''s is more than the £2M put out in the press and some more encourging noises are coming out of the club at the moment but these needs to be backed up with positive action in the form of some actual signings arriving through the door. Talks of protests etc at this time is not good and is damaging to the club and will not assist Grant & Co''s attempts to bring talented new players to the club. No player wants to play against a back drop of protests and protests are usully reflected in poor on the field performances. Some of the performances during the Chase out demo''s were far worse than anything we witnessed over the last couple of years.I feel that we should await developments in the transfer market and see how the first 10 games of the season go. If we have only signed a few freebies and journeymen and are at the wrong end then more and more people will be agreeing with your thinking. If we have spent £5 million in the transfer market (or more if Earnie goes) and start the season well then any protests are going to look rather foolish! Sadly, I suspect we will be somewhere in between with maybe one or two decent signings plus a few freebies and promising youngsters and that we will be mid table again next year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smudger 0 Posted June 10, 2007 [quote user="Stevie Wonder"][quote user="Arthur Whittle"] Im starting to see things a little different and am prepared listen to views in a diffent light. Ive realised some people have very good views on Delia and to be completely honest i dont have the answers to all your questions. I would like to turn things round a little and ask you why does Delia deserve our backing? I know some have said the turners have invested, but i dont class a 2m loan as investment. Im still not convinced its better to have Delia than seek a takeover/majoruty investment but am open to your thoughts. Theres a fella currently trying to set up a website who is going to run the campaign and i believe he is interested in taliking to the press and the club in a way that the ncisc have faled to do. Im not changing my stance or opinions as i feel we are going nowhere under the current regime the only way i may change my views is if there was serious investment during the summer as i feel it would bring back the feel good factor and maybe open up a few eyes around the country that norwich ARE ambitious and would have the knock on effect of signing decent players/investment. Thanks to all those who gave me get well messages and to all those who sent abusive messages about my health and campaign-get stuffed idiots! Smudger, Wayne and co ill leave a message on here when i know more about the website. CheersMr A.Whittle[/quote]Congratulations. There are 2 sides to every debate.Personally, I sit somewhere in the middle on the whole Delia issue (I believe it''s called the fence....). I am prepared to acknowledge that in the past she has done some good things for this club but no-one in their right mind can say that the board have got much right in the last couple of years. I think the board was getting stale and to the end of its "natural life" much like Worthy had before them. However, they have taken steps to freshen up the board with the appointment of the Turner''s. There seems to be a reliable rumour that the investment of the Turner''s is more than the £2M put out in the press and some more encourging noises are coming out of the club at the moment but these needs to be backed up with positive action in the form of some actual signings arriving through the door. Talks of protests etc at this time is not good and is damaging to the club and will not assist Grant & Co''s attempts to bring talented new players to the club. No player wants to play against a back drop of protests and protests are usully reflected in poor on the field performances. Some of the performances during the Chase out demo''s were far worse than anything we witnessed over the last couple of years.I feel that we should await developments in the transfer market and see how the first 10 games of the season go. If we have only signed a few freebies and journeymen and are at the wrong end then more and more people will be agreeing with your thinking. If we have spent £5 million in the transfer market (or more if Earnie goes) and start the season well then any protests are going to look rather foolish! Sadly, I suspect we will be somewhere in between with maybe one or two decent signings plus a few freebies and promising youngsters and that we will be mid table again next year.[/quote]Hi STEVIE,Can''t agree with what you state in the first paragraph mate about talk of protest damaging the club... we went through all that with us not being able to protest last year... it is the the sit back and do nothing approach of so many that has been damaging the club for the past 2 to 3 years so how can you claim that protest will damage the club any more than what fans have been doing recently?I think that the highlighted paragraph is spot on though and I am totally in that camp myself... I expect £2million+ to be spent if nobody else is sold and £7million to be spent if Earnie is sold... no more, no less!!! I do not see how anybody can say that is expecting too much... can you??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smudger 0 Posted June 10, 2007 oh thanks ARTHURWill look forward to hearing from you in August/September mate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
7rew 0 Posted June 11, 2007 Smudger The main reason that protests now would damage the clubs prospects are this:The Turners have been here under 2 months. Say we protest at thefirst home game in August. Thats when they''ve been on board 4 monthsand haven''t had a full transfer window. Say you were an investor coming in you could buy us, of someotherclub. There are pros and cons of both, but we edge it. Thenthey discover that we have a pan base which has protested about twodifferent issues in under 1 (non-calender) year, and attemped to oustfrom the board new very rich directors within 4 months - what do youthink "these guys need my help" or "these guys could be serioustrouble". It''ll be the second one - so that tips the balence awayfrom us.Would you really still protest if they spend more than you want ("£7million to be spent if Earnie is sold... no more, no less!!!")Arthur I agree pretty much with Stevie, however much it may seem otherwise, Ijust object strongly to people argueing using fabrications andmisquotes. I also am wary of foreign investors because I am not convinced thatwhen bad times come - and they will, they are as inevitable as deathand taxes - that a foreign investor would do whats best for theclub. They are in it for themselves, so when their intrests andthe clubs are the same, and when things go well they will be, all willbe fine. When things go badly these intrests will diverge and they willact in their own intrests, against the clubs best intrests, just whenthe club need them and we will be in BIG trouble then, far more than weare now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gazzathegreat 0 Posted June 11, 2007 Well Arthur, if you are still feeling a bit shaky after your recent health scare you can come round to mine for tea and I''ll put on a spread of Delia''s finest fare for you....that will make you love her.Can''t profess to being able to convince you re her boardroom activities though. Maybe a mouthful of her sticky toffee pud and you''d be speechless long enough for me to get my point across lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smudger 0 Posted June 11, 2007 [quote user="7rew"]Smudger The main reason that protests now would damage the clubs prospects are this:The Turners have been here under 2 months. Say we protest at the first home game in August. Thats when they''ve been on board 4 months and haven''t had a full transfer window. Say you were an investor coming in you could buy us, of someother club. There are pros and cons of both, but we edge it. Then they discover that we have a pan base which has protested about two different issues in under 1 (non-calender) year, and attemped to oust from the board new very rich directors within 4 months - what do you think "these guys need my help" or "these guys could be serious trouble". It''ll be the second one - so that tips the balence away from us.Would you really still protest if they spend more than you want ("£7million to be spent if Earnie is sold... no more, no less!!!")Arthur I agree pretty much with Stevie, however much it may seem otherwise, I just object strongly to people argueing using fabrications and misquotes. I also am wary of foreign investors because I am not convinced that when bad times come - and they will, they are as inevitable as death and taxes - that a foreign investor would do whats best for the club. They are in it for themselves, so when their intrests and the clubs are the same, and when things go well they will be, all will be fine. When things go badly these intrests will diverge and they will act in their own intrests, against the clubs best intrests, just when the club need them and we will be in BIG trouble then, far more than we are now.[/quote]No I would not protest if the above happened 7rew.... but it ain''t going to is it???If Earnie isn''t sold then I would expect us to spend at least £3million... don''t want to hear excuses unless they have done all in there power to make sure that we do not have another poor season then there are many fans who will just not listen to any more excuses.Think potential buyers would look at us all the more if there were protests... it would show that the City fans care... nobody in the country can question the City fans passion and loyalty and everybody knows that they desrve so much better... but as with the club we are again in danger of becoming a joke... because we are far too prepared to accept any c**p that is dished up to us.The only reason a number of potential buyers are not prepared to look at us? DELIA SMITH!!!If there was sustained protest against Delia for a number of months then I am sure that a good prospective buyer would come out of the woodwork... while many of you sit in support of a woman who has stated "that investment from outside of Norfolk is not welcome" however then we have little or "NO CHANCE" of finding a buyer that can take our club forward in the direction that it''s potential warrants. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
In Dubious Battle 0 Posted June 11, 2007 Everybody makes mistakes it''s how you react to them that is what should be judged, up until the last 2/3 years delia & co have had a fantastic record bringing stability & then success to the club. Now things have started going wrong and mistakes have been made (not signing Ashton until January was madness) the question is how will they react to these mistakes? they have already found fresh local investment for the club people who actually care about our club in the turners, if they can couple that with a moderate amount of investment this summer & and a more ambitious outlook then i would say that they''ve learnt from thier mistakes, and they will continue to have my support. If on the other hand we get to january and nothing has changed i will be joining you with your protests. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,384 Posted June 11, 2007 I have no strong feelings either way Arthur. I was happy when she stepped in when the club was nearly broke. I don''t hold with all those who reckon it was Watling that saved the club because he didn''t have the money to do it. She did, and there was nobody else on the horizon.I would be more than happy to see here step aside if somebody came in with a load of cash but its not a likely prospect. Those who think that she is an obstacle and if only she stepped out of the way a rich suitor would step in are living in a dream world. Its not going to happen.We would all like to see more money spent on a genuine attempt to get promotion. Unfortunately none of us on this forum have any idea of how much is available and how much it would be safe to gamble. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Huddy 0 Posted June 11, 2007 well, she probably taught you all you know about boiling an egg. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old Shuck 183 Posted June 11, 2007 Well, don''t want to try and convince you of anything Arthur, but do want to wish you well & hope you are well and truly over your health worries soon. Been there myself over the last eighteen months or so, know what its like for it to be a daily issue and worry over a long period of time. All the best mate... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shack Attack 0 Posted June 12, 2007 Hmmm, another new thread started when questions from previous ones remain unanswered.I''m beginning to think that Herb might be right about you! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arthur Whittle 0 Posted June 12, 2007 [quote user="Shack Attack"]Hmmm, another new thread started when questions from previous ones remain unanswered.I''m beginning to think that Herb might be right about you![/quote]Did you struggle to read/understand my post and the stance im currently taking. Well as i said my views have not changed but after some very well put questions i honestly dont have the answer to them all but i would like to know why my views are so hard for people to except when the club are clearly on the wrong tracks. Im trying to see how and why people feel the way they do about the board so to give me a better opinion or arguement on them. I thought the tread in itself is self explainatory. Ps its good to see Herbs pointless remarks about me are rubbing off on one person, i bet hes sitting there now thinking about his next interesting comment about the state of our club. Pure class Herb,pure class. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blahblahblah 2 Posted June 12, 2007 [quote]Well as i said my views have not changed but after some very well putquestions i honestly dont have the answer to them all but i would liketo know why my views are so hard for people to except when the club areclearly on the wrong tracks.[/quote]Arthur, It''s not that your views are hard to accept. They are your views, you are as entitled to them as anyone else. However, your views appear not to be shared by many on this board at this moment in time. In my experience, protest tends to be spontaneous and has to come from genuine grievance for it to have any meaning. Quite a few people on this message board don''t feel aggrieved with the board, they don''t feel that the board are dishonest in the way they do their business, and they feel that while the board may have their failings, as we all do, they are decent people trying their best for our team. The only way I can see a genuine protest occuring is if we have a disastrous 2007 / 08 season, and I don''t think any NCFC supporter wants that to happen.P.S. You do yourself no favours by continuing a running argument while ducking constructive criticism. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shack Attack 0 Posted June 12, 2007 [quote user="Arthur Whittle"][quote user="Shack Attack"] Hmmm, another new thread started when questions from previous ones remain unanswered.I''m beginning to think that Herb might be right about you![/quote]Did you struggle to read/understand my post and the stance im currently taking. Well as i said my views have not changed but after some very well put questions i honestly dont have the answer to them all but i would like to know why my views are so hard for people to except when the club are clearly on the wrong tracks. Im trying to see how and why people feel the way they do about the board so to give me a better opinion or arguement on them. I thought the tread in itself is self explainatory. Ps its good to see Herbs pointless remarks about me are rubbing off on one person, i bet hes sitting there now thinking about his next interesting comment about the state of our club. Pure class Herb,pure class.[/quote].OK Arthur, clearly I''m struggling to see your point here but the way I see it things have gone a little bit like this :1. You emerge on this message board one day and announce to your people that you have taken over from Lee Oliver as the spokesman for the anti-board demo group (apologies if I''ve got your role or the name of your group wrong).2. Wary of what happened last time somebody tried this tactic on the board many posters ask you to detail your grievances with the board and set out your plan to improve our performances.3. You produce ''My problems with the board, part 1''. The majority of posters treat you with respect, you are a vast improvement on the last spokesman, and even agree with some of your points. The majority of those that disagree with you put forward their arguments calmly and rationally without resorting to personal insults, yet you see fit to ignore them and let the thread, and therefore any reasoned debate, disappear.4. After prompting from some posters you produce ''My problems with the board, part 2''. You say that the intention of this thread is to enable posters to leave you questions regarding your views and how will go about your campaign. Even more posters leave questions for you but, notwithstanding your illness, you choose to ignore them and get involved with petty arguments with Herb.5. After letting the other two threads slip away you decide to start two more, one seems to be a rather pitiful whine about why nobody will agree with you and the other asks other posters to tell you why you should love Delia. The second post is quite clever, I''ll give you that, as it turns the burden of proof over to the people who disagree with you.Bearing the above in mind ''My problem with Arthur Whittle, part 1'' is that each time more than a couple of people disagree with you one of your threads you lose your bottle and set up another one. Perhaps you think that if you spread the debate over many threads you can dilute the evidence against you, which at the minute tells the story that very few people are interested in your protests.My final point is that it is not up to anybody to tell you why they love Delia, incidentally I don''t think anybody really does. It is up to you to convince us why she (and the rest of the board, try not to make it personal) should be replaced. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr Terrible 0 Posted June 12, 2007 Some intresting points by shack Arthur. I dont believe anyone loves Delia, i think its just a case of people are frightened of change and some have only been following the club with Delia in charge so knnow no different.Hope you feel better soon.Off to Las vegas for 2 weeks in the morning so roll out the dice and ill speak to you all in a fortnight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
7rew 0 Posted June 12, 2007 Arthur:Let me just add another voice agreeing with Shack almost entirely from his last post.Wayne:You accused alot of people of being afraid of change and not knowing any different from Delia.I have some points about these and being me, I will address in my own way:1) I am 23. This is not mny fault nor is it a crime. The resultof it is that the only boards I could realisitically have experiencedare the current one, main share holder Smith, or the very end of theChase led board! so you are right I have known no (good) differentalternative. Certainly when I was 13 I took no intrest in theboard, who does at that age.But my other point is this:2) NO-ONE has any other experience of a board running a modern footballclub. Particularly since the introduction of the premier leaguefootball has changed beyond all recognition, the great boards of thepast (I assume there were some as your point would be groundlessotherwise) were running the club in a totally different environment andare pretty much incomparable.3) On the point about being afraid of change. This is perfectlytrue. Are you not? Really? Being afraid of change isnatural and is a survival mechanism. Any one who isn''t afraid of changeis deluded.Changing the board is a risky business, particularly when you don''tknow who the replacement is, as this increases uncertainty. Changing the board is only a good thing if we do better than we wouldhave done with this board. So we then have to work out how likelywe consider that to be. This is where we will differ considerably. I expect to see asmall improvement next season under this board. Others have differentopinions.So what would a takeover be likely to achieve? well that also isa matter of opinion - but it is not a fix all solution! Theoutcome is stilll uncertain, people like Ridsdale (leeds), Romanov(hearts), Spackman (millwall) and the bloke at wrexham prove thattakeovers can go horribly wrong, just as Abramovich proves they can goright. In my opinion there would probably be a veryslightly larger improvent. However how big will the difference be? Willit be big enough to be worth the risk of losing everything? In my opinion, NO. Why? Because I think the average difference (overall possible outcomes) would be only 2 or 3 places over 2seasons. Couple that with the fact that I doubt that, when thingsgo bad, a foreign (non-fan) investor would do whats best for the club Ifeel the long term implications for the club would actually be lowerover the medium to long term than with the current board.Please note "2 or 3 places over 2 seasons" doesn''t mean 13th/14th in 2 years - It means 8th/9th as opposed to 11th. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arthur Whittle 0 Posted June 13, 2007 [quote user="7rew"]Arthur:Let me just add another voice agreeing with Shack almost entirely from his last post.Wayne:You accused alot of people of being afraid of change and not knowing any different from Delia.I have some points about these and being me, I will address in my own way:1) I am 23. This is not mny fault nor is it a crime. The result of it is that the only boards I could realisitically have experienced are the current one, main share holder Smith, or the very end of the Chase led board! so you are right I have known no (good) different alternative. Certainly when I was 13 I took no intrest in the board, who does at that age.But my other point is this:2) NO-ONE has any other experience of a board running a modern football club. Particularly since the introduction of the premier league football has changed beyond all recognition, the great boards of the past (I assume there were some as your point would be groundless otherwise) were running the club in a totally different environment and are pretty much incomparable.3) On the point about being afraid of change. This is perfectly true. Are you not? Really? Being afraid of change is natural and is a survival mechanism. Any one who isn''t afraid of change is deluded.Changing the board is a risky business, particularly when you don''t know who the replacement is, as this increases uncertainty. Changing the board is only a good thing if we do better than we would have done with this board. So we then have to work out how likely we consider that to be. This is where we will differ considerably. I expect to see a small improvement next season under this board. Others have different opinions.So what would a takeover be likely to achieve? well that also is a matter of opinion - but it is not a fix all solution! The outcome is stilll uncertain, people like Ridsdale (leeds), Romanov (hearts), Spackman (millwall) and the bloke at wrexham prove that takeovers can go horribly wrong, just as Abramovich proves they can go right. In my opinion there would probably be a very slightly larger improvent. However how big will the difference be? Will it be big enough to be worth the risk of losing everything? In my opinion, NO. Why? Because I think the average difference (over all possible outcomes) would be only 2 or 3 places over 2 seasons. Couple that with the fact that I doubt that, when things go bad, a foreign (non-fan) investor would do whats best for the club I feel the long term implications for the club would actually be lower over the medium to long term than with the current board.Please note "2 or 3 places over 2 seasons" doesn''t mean 13th/14th in 2 years - It means 8th/9th as opposed to 11th.[/quote]In reply to your post i just feel that its all very hypothetical. What i believe and this is where i differ to many posters is that it is a risk worth taking as 10 years of this board has gave us very limited success and much medicroce. Yes the Turners have come in but what do we know of them apart from a 2Mill interest free loan, which althouh helpful is hardly investment. Look at Portsmouth and no doubt Leicester and Derby and More than likely Wolves ,clubs i believe not much if not at all bigger than norwich all promoting themselves as ambitious clubs and willing to gamble on outside investment and Clubs that either Are or likely goin to be in the Prem. Yes there are examples of clubs going the other way but i just cant be doing this mid-table rubbish anymore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
7rew 0 Posted June 13, 2007 [quote user="Arthur Whittle"]In reply to your post i just feel that its all very hypothetical.Yes the Turners have come in but what do we know of them apart from a2Mill interest free loan, which althouh helpful is hardly investment.[/quote]That is infact precisely my point - until such a time as some facts areknow about a replacement board, there is nothing we can know aboutthem. Consequently all we are left with is hypotheticalsituations and they certainly don''t all involve the premiership.On the Turners, yes we only know 3 things - they are city fans (surelya positive thing), they have given an announced 2 million loanand that they are VERY rich. They are worth £75m more than theowners of Hearts or Blackpool for example (the arguements about thisbeing paper/theoretical money apply to all very rich people).But: * Thats three things more than we know about anyone else that is/may become involved. * Intrest free loans to football clubs are verycommon and very few are ever recalled. It is also has benefitial taximplications doing it this way. There was a very good thread on thissubject, just before you signed up, by Cambridge Canary. As anexample Geoffrey Watling gave the club alot of money in this form and the loans were writen off on his death. * The club are supposed to be "masters of spin" (yetsmudger always sees straight through it?). Consequently anystatement they make we are not supposed to believe. So whybelieve the one about the loan being £2m?The board had to anounce (by law) the new board members, so it wasclear they must have invested something. So a small loan wasannounced which says we no longer have to sell players. This putsus in a better position in the transfer market, as does people notknowing how much we have to spend - so this is, at the moment, in thebest intrests of the club to down play the size of anyinvestment. Maybe there is another loan, or will be (ie agreedalready but not put inplace yet). The Turners have got a lot of power for their 1% stake and £2m loan -they now have as much power as the Wynn-Joneses with a 51% stake andtwice as much as Skipper did with the same stake. This is because whileshareholder votes work on weighting by shares, boardroom matters areconducted on a 1 member 1 vote system. Especially if Delia is thecontrol freak she is often described as by some, but even if she isn''t,because new members have to be voted on to the board by existing ones(and each individual board member would have even less power) theTurners must have offered something pretty large in order to get twoseats.Certainly the club is involved in bids for much more expensive playersthan you would expect if finaces were at the we can survive withoutselling players stage.My general point is that I think the Turners deserve a chance to provethemselves before we all go haring on about removing the board. That chance must be two transfer windows - so after January. If amanger can''t be judged on his preformances with someone elses squad, sogets a year to make it his own, the board members, who have a lesshands on role can''t be objectively judged for a similar period.Also I feel that removing the board without giving the Turners a chancewould put off potential investors as they would be afraid of notgetting a fair chance to work their magic before being booted out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shack Attack 0 Posted June 13, 2007 [quote user="Shack Attack"][quote user="Arthur Whittle"][quote user="Shack Attack"] Hmmm, another new thread started when questions from previous ones remain unanswered.I''m beginning to think that Herb might be right about you![/quote]Did you struggle to read/understand my post and the stance im currently taking. Well as i said my views have not changed but after some very well put questions i honestly dont have the answer to them all but i would like to know why my views are so hard for people to except when the club are clearly on the wrong tracks. Im trying to see how and why people feel the way they do about the board so to give me a better opinion or arguement on them. I thought the tread in itself is self explainatory. Ps its good to see Herbs pointless remarks about me are rubbing off on one person, i bet hes sitting there now thinking about his next interesting comment about the state of our club. Pure class Herb,pure class.[/quote].OK Arthur, clearly I''m struggling to see your point here but the way I see it things have gone a little bit like this :1. You emerge on this message board one day and announce to your people that you have taken over from Lee Oliver as the spokesman for the anti-board demo group (apologies if I''ve got your role or the name of your group wrong).2. Wary of what happened last time somebody tried this tactic on the board many posters ask you to detail your grievances with the board and set out your plan to improve our performances.3. You produce ''My problems with the board, part 1''. The majority of posters treat you with respect, you are a vast improvement on the last spokesman, and even agree with some of your points. The majority of those that disagree with you put forward their arguments calmly and rationally without resorting to personal insults, yet you see fit to ignore them and let the thread, and therefore any reasoned debate, disappear.4. After prompting from some posters you produce ''My problems with the board, part 2''. You say that the intention of this thread is to enable posters to leave you questions regarding your views and how will go about your campaign. Even more posters leave questions for you but, notwithstanding your illness, you choose to ignore them and get involved with petty arguments with Herb.5. After letting the other two threads slip away you decide to start two more, one seems to be a rather pitiful whine about why nobody will agree with you and the other asks other posters to tell you why you should love Delia. The second post is quite clever, I''ll give you that, as it turns the burden of proof over to the people who disagree with you.Bearing the above in mind ''My problem with Arthur Whittle, part 1'' is that each time more than a couple of people disagree with you one of your threads you lose your bottle and set up another one. Perhaps you think that if you spread the debate over many threads you can dilute the evidence against you, which at the minute tells the story that very few people are interested in your protests.My final point is that it is not up to anybody to tell you why they love Delia, incidentally I don''t think anybody really does. It is up to you to convince us why she (and the rest of the board, try not to make it personal) should be replaced.[/quote]Fair enough Arthur, you''ve obviously got no desire to debate with people who disagree with your views so I''ll leave it at that.Personally I think the mods should ban you from starting up any new thread until you answer the question that you invited on the previous one, but that''s just my opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
macdougalls perm 0 Posted June 13, 2007 I have to be absolutely honest Arthur, I''m not really bothered whether you love Delia or not, lol! [:D] If you did, I suspect you would be in an exceedingly tiny minority anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites