Lay of Brown

[Dame to Blame 95]

Am i the only one who is sick and tired of fans continually having a go at C.Brown even though the guy has only played a handfull of games for us , give the guy a chance instead of listen to here say from the sunderland fans on the web .

[Beaker 0]

give him a chance to run it is what i say

[Branston Pickle 3,652]

No, you aren''t the only one who is tired of people having a go about Brown - some people seem to need a scapegoat and now that Flem and Robbo have gone he has taken on that mantle.  It is fair to say that he didn''t exactly set the world alight in his few appearances, but he still deserves to be given a fair chance - Iwan was poor in his entire first season but is now thought of as a legend; I''m not necessarily suggesting that Brown will be the same but we just don''t know for sure until he is given a fair crack.

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

Next it will be lay off Thorne, Henderson, Gallacher.

I am not going to be nasty about any Norwich City player, however, there are some who just aren''t good enough for us or the Championship.  Of which one is Chris Brown.

Nought against Brown, he just ain''t good enough.

[Dame to Blame 95]

[quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]

Next it will be lay off Thorne, Henderson, Gallacher.

I am not going to be nasty about any Norwich City player, however, there are some who just aren''t good enough for us or the Championship.  Of which one is Chris Brown.

Nought against Brown, he just ain''t good enough.

[/quote]And how do you come to that conclusion after only seeing him play a handfull of games and carring an injury in some of those .

[Fordy 0]

If he is that good why did Sunderland not try to hang on to him? Fair point to give him a chance but strikers need to hit the ground running in this division and he hasn''t! I know he has had injuries, maybe the reason for sunderland letting him go, and suspension but what we''ve seen of him is hardly decent is it?

[Syteanric 1]

From 6 yards out Iwan Roberts would of headed for goal.. he wouldnt of headed it back towards the penalty spot...

Brown is shocking! he couldnt play in a team that won Promotion and joined a team battling relegation... says all that needs to be said..

 

if he was any good he''d be a premiership striker with Sunderland by now given his age.

jas :)

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="barclayendboy"][quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]

Next it will be lay off Thorne, Henderson, Gallacher.

I am not going to be nasty about any Norwich City player, however, there are some who just aren''t good enough for us or the Championship.  Of which one is Chris Brown.

Nought against Brown, he just ain''t good enough.

[/quote]
And how do you come to that conclusion after only seeing him play a handfull of games and carring an injury in some of those .
[/quote]

Some of us can see a quality player and a c**p player and some of us can''t BARCLAYENDBOY.

It seems that you and possibly Granty are in the I can''t spot a decent player for toffee bracket!!!  [;)]

[Dame to Blame 95]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="barclayendboy"][quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]

Next it will be lay off Thorne, Henderson, Gallacher.

I am not going to be nasty about any Norwich City player, however, there are some who just aren''t good enough for us or the Championship.  Of which one is Chris Brown.

Nought against Brown, he just ain''t good enough.

[/quote]And how do you come to that conclusion after only seeing him play a handfull of games and carring an injury in some of those . [/quote]

Some of us can see a quality player and a c**p player and some of us can''t BARCLAYENDBOY.

It seems that you and possibly Granty are in the I can''t spot a decent player for toffee bracket!!!  [;)]

[/quote]Seeing as you have hated him  and rubbished him since he arrived SMUDGER your reply does not surpsise me at all very predictable and this coming from someone who does not even attend matches hilarious.

[Dame to Blame 95]

[quote user="Fordy"]If he is that good why did Sunderland not try to hang on to him? Fair point to give him a chance but strikers need to hit the ground running in this division and he hasn''t! I know he has had injuries, maybe the reason for sunderland letting him go, and suspension but what we''ve seen of him is hardly decent is it?[/quote]Hang on a minute didn''t Sheff utd get rid of Sharp saying he was rubbish  yet most on this forum are shouting for us to sign him ummmmm make''s you think don''t it .

[Beaker 0]

smudger do you have a job or are you a professional norwich city debate poster?

you seem to know so much about the game.....[^o)].... why not get a job in football. now theres an idea.....

NOT

get a life

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="barclayendboy"][quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]

Next it will be lay off Thorne, Henderson, Gallacher.

I am not going to be nasty about any Norwich City player, however, there are some who just aren''t good enough for us or the Championship.  Of which one is Chris Brown.

Nought against Brown, he just ain''t good enough.

[/quote]
And how do you come to that conclusion after only seeing him play a handfull of games and carring an injury in some of those .
[/quote]

Some of us can see a quality player and a c**p player and some of us can''t BARCLAYENDBOY.

It seems that you and possibly Granty are in the I can''t spot a decent player for toffee bracket!!!  [;)]

[/quote]

Perhaps Peter Grant should join with you watching matches on Radio Norfolk smudge so he can see these players from your vantage point and he would also be able to call on your great wisdom to assess players abilities and plus have your advice on whether or not he should buy or not buy.

 

 

 

[Brandon 0]

Chris Brown - 20 goals in 105 appearances according to Wikipedia

Robert Earnshaw - 126 goals in 269 appearances according to Wikipedia

£325,000? daylight robbery.

[Polar 0]

smudger... i was under the impression you dont go to games so how can you spot a bad player

[Dame to Blame 95]

[quote user="Brandon"]

Chris Brown - 20 goals in 105 appearances according to Wikipedia

Robert Earnshaw - 126 goals in 269 appearances according to Wikipedia

£325,000? daylight robbery.

[/quote]To compare the two is unfair  they have different games one is a poacher the other is a target man supplying Earnie with knock on etc  plus Earnie is at the top of his game where as Brown is just starting his career .

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

[quote user="barclayendboy"][quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]

Next it will be lay off Thorne, Henderson, Gallacher.

I am not going to be nasty about any Norwich City player, however, there are some who just aren''t good enough for us or the Championship.  Of which one is Chris Brown.

Nought against Brown, he just ain''t good enough.

[/quote]
And how do you come to that conclusion after only seeing him play a handfull of games and carring an injury in some of those .
[/quote]

Wrong, I live in the north east and have seen him play for Sunderland on several occassions.

[nutty nigel 7,528]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

From 6 yards out Iwan Roberts would of headed for goal.. he wouldnt of headed it back towards the penalty spot...

Brown is shocking! he couldnt play in a team that won Promotion and joined a team battling relegation... says all that needs to be said..

 

if he was any good he''d be a premiership striker with Sunderland by now given his age.

jas :)

[/quote]

Jas mate... I thought he came straight to us from Sunderland, did he have a spell with luton or someone first?

I agree with the posters who say he should be given a chance. If he really is as bad as some posters would have us believe then questions need to be asked about Grant spending so much money. £325,000 plus his contract may seem cheap but in reality it''s equivalent to 1000 season tickets in The Barclay!

 

[Bigmarkcanary 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]

From 6 yards out Iwan Roberts would of headed for goal.. he wouldnt of headed it back towards the penalty spot...

Brown is shocking! he couldnt play in a team that won Promotion and joined a team battling relegation... says all that needs to be said..

 

if he was any good he''d be a premiership striker with Sunderland by now given his age.

jas :)

[/quote]

Jas mate... I thought he came straight to us from Sunderland, did he have a spell with luton or someone first?

I agree with the posters who say he should be given a chance. If he really is as bad as some posters would have us believe then questions need to be asked about Grant spending so much money. £325,000 plus his contract may seem cheap but in reality it''s equivalent to 1000 season tickets in The Barclay!

 

[/quote]

Nutty Nigel, I don''t know if it''s escaped your attention, but we weren''t that far away from the drop in terms of points when he came here.

If we don''t get another striker in, then Brown must be given a run in the team (say, for example, 10-12 games). If it doesn''t work, then Grant must have a rethink.

[Syteanric 1]

thats exactly my point Bigmark.

 Would Chris Brown have scored the goals that Chris Martin scored to move us away from the drop zone?

when we signed him we had Lost Earnie to injury, Hucks was going through a bad spell, and Martin wasnt even really on the scene. Grant clearly signed Brown as the main man, charged with the job of taking us up the division.

 he hasnt looked anything like scoring in his time here.

and people say "oh Iwan was bad in his first season" very true.. but Iwan was a proven goal scorer, had scored in the top 2 divisions for Leicester, Wolves, Huddersfield and Watford. Chris Brown has struggled to find the net whever he has been. his goal ratio isnt great and getting sent off for hand ball plus gifting Blackpool a goal in the 2 cup games with them hasnt filled me with confidence.

jas :)

[nutty nigel 7,528]

[quote user="Bigmarkcanary"]

Nutty Nigel, I don''t know if it''s escaped your attention, but we weren''t that far away from the drop in terms of points when he came here.

If we don''t get another striker in, then Brown must be given a run in the team (say, for example, 10-12 games). If it doesn''t work, then Grant must have a rethink.

[/quote]

When Chris Brown signed for us we were a struggling disappointing mid-table team. 8 points clear of the relegation places and 9 points behind the play-off places. This battling against relegation just didn''t happen. If I remember rightly we spent 0 weeks in the bottom six all season.

 

 

[alex_ncfc 662]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Bigmarkcanary"]

Nutty Nigel, I don''t know if it''s escaped your attention, but we weren''t that far away from the drop in terms of points when he came here.

If we don''t get another striker in, then Brown must be given a run in the team (say, for example, 10-12 games). If it doesn''t work, then Grant must have a rethink.

[/quote]

When Chris Brown signed for us we were a struggling disappointing mid-table team. 8 points clear of the relegation places and 9 points behind the play-off places. This battling against relegation just didn''t happen. If I remember rightly we spent 0 weeks in the bottom six all season.

 

 

[/quote]

Then you clearly don''t remember that we spent at least two weeks when we were literally 2 or 3 points off the bottom three.....

[7rew 0]

[quote user="Brandon"]

Chris Brown - 20 goals in 105 appearances according to Wikipedia

Robert Earnshaw - 126 goals in 269 appearances according to Wikipedia

£325,000? daylight robbery.

[/quote]

I''m not so sure:

Brown - 1 goal every 5 games average - or 2 in 10-  £325,000

Earnshaw - 1 goal every 2 games average - or 5 in 10- £3,500,000

Earnshaw scores about 2.5 times as many goals - but cost about 10.75 times as much money.

Cost per goal should be much less, if scoring rate is continued

not daylight robbery

twilight robbery is more appropriate

[nutty nigel 7,528]

[quote user="alex_ncfc"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Bigmarkcanary"]

Nutty Nigel, I don''t know if it''s escaped your attention, but we weren''t that far away from the drop in terms of points when he came here.

If we don''t get another striker in, then Brown must be given a run in the team (say, for example, 10-12 games). If it doesn''t work, then Grant must have a rethink.

[/quote]

When Chris Brown signed for us we were a struggling disappointing mid-table team. 8 points clear of the relegation places and 9 points behind the play-off places. This battling against relegation just didn''t happen. If I remember rightly we spent 0 weeks in the bottom six all season.

 

 

[/quote]

Then you clearly don''t remember that we spent at least two weeks when we were literally 2 or 3 points off the bottom three.....

[/quote]

You''re right alex, I don''t remember that.

When was it??

 

 

[dr livingstone 0]

some so called fans always find a player they can slag of all the time.

it has been hughes but he seems to be winning them round, with his effort over the last 2 months of the season.

so its time to look for someone elses back to get on, and chris brown looks like he is the one.

£200.000 thats all we paid for him not £2 million. give him a chance.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="dr livingstone"]

some so called fans always find a player they can slag of all the time.

it has been hughes but he seems to be winning them round, with his effort over the last 2 months of the season.

so its time to look for someone elses back to get on, and chris brown looks like he is the one.

£200.000 thats all we paid for him not £2 million. give him a chance.

[/quote]

Chris Brown is just one of many for me in recent years...

Donkerty, MLJ, Thorne, Jarrett, Hughes, Charlton (and a few other more high profile names)... all not fit enough to wear the shirt!!!!

I have made one error in judgement on the players we have signed over the last few years and I take my hat off to that man... Dion Dublin proved that he was not too old and that he could infact do a job for us... still not sure that I would of signed him though as if I wanted a bit of experience then I would most definetely have gone for Chris Sutton.

Chris Brown is utter c**p and for those saying give the guy a chance, Iwan was c**p in his first season with us etc etc... As JAS points out Iwan was proven Chris Brown is not.

Brown will be lucky enough to play 20 games in a City shirt, nevermind score 20 goals...  I hope that he is the worst signing that Grant makes... because we can''t to afford to employ any more players as poor as him!!!

[Stevie Wonder 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

thats exactly my point Bigmark.

 Would Chris Brown have scored the goals that Chris Martin scored to move us away from the drop zone?

when we signed him we had Lost Earnie to injury, Hucks was going through a bad spell, and Martin wasnt even really on the scene. Grant clearly signed Brown as the main man, charged with the job of taking us up the division.

 he hasnt looked anything like scoring in his time here.

and people say "oh Iwan was bad in his first season" very true.. but Iwan was a proven goal scorer, had scored in the top 2 divisions for Leicester, Wolves, Huddersfield and Watford. Chris Brown has struggled to find the net whever he has been. his goal ratio isnt great and getting sent off for hand ball plus gifting Blackpool a goal in the 2 cup games with them hasnt filled me with confidence.

jas :)

[/quote]

I think you will find that he was signed a couple of days before Earnie got injured.

I can''t disagree with the comments that he didn''t ever look like scoring in the games he played but I do think he should be given more than a few games to prove himself. He was bought as a partner for Earnie to play as a "hold up" man - his job won''t be to score 20 goals a season it will be to link play up, win some flick on''s for Earnie and contribute 10-15 goals a season. Whether he can do that or even get a chance is another matter. Currently, he is probably our most likely option to play the target man role. In my opinion Dublin was poor when he played up front last year and certainly can''t play 90 mins up front - I cannot recall too many games where he caused the opposition defenders too many problems other than the Tamworth game......

Presumably then we all thought Thorne was a great signing as he had a proven scoring record at Champs level?

 

 

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

[quote user="7rew"][quote user="Brandon"]

Chris Brown - 20 goals in 105 appearances according to Wikipedia

Robert Earnshaw - 126 goals in 269 appearances according to Wikipedia

£325,000? daylight robbery.

[/quote]

I''m not so sure:

Brown - 1 goal every 5 games average - or 2 in 10-  £325,000
Earnshaw - 1 goal every 2 games average - or 5 in 10- £3,500,000

Earnshaw scores about 2.5 times as many goals - but cost about 10.75 times as much money.

Cost per goal should be much less, if scoring rate is continued

not daylight robbery
twilight robbery is more appropriate
[/quote]

 

You can''t base goal scoring ratios on a player''s value. 

An example (ficticious),

Joe Bloggs a striker plays in Championship and gets 2 goals in every 10 games.

Fred Smith a striker plays in Championship and gets 8 goals in every 10 games.

Joe Bloggs value is £200,000, which on the basis of goal scoring ratios would mean that Fred Smith is worth 4 times as much, £800,000.

Try and tell any team in the Championship that has a player who scores that many goals that he is only worth £800,000.  They wont stop laughing at you.

You can''t just base value on goalscoring ratios as so many other factors come into it. 

Take Earnshaw for example, his ratio includes goals scored in the Premiership and at international level, does Brown''s?

If a forward is a prolific goal scorer there is much more demand for them, which pushes the price higher.

The amount of wins instead of draws and draws instead of defeats and wins instead of defeats with having a more prolific striker, all adds to the value of the striker.

This can however, work both ways, in favour of the prolific striker or not so prolific striker with regard to the following:-   goalscoring ratios don''t show the quality of a player''s all round play, passing, assists etc.

However, I can''t imagine many managers, who did not already have a regular goal scorer in their team, taking preference over a 8 or 9 goal a season striker than a 25 goal plus a season striker, just because the 8 or 9 goal a season striker had more assists.

A strikers value will obviously factor in things, other than just goal scoring and all round play (as previously mentioned), such as age, injury record, attitude, ability to handle pressure, the level at which they are scoring (how many more points are those extra goals worth?) and to a particular team would be worth x thousands more if he was the type of player they were looking for to fit into their team.

Having said all this, perhaps a naive way to look at a striker''s value would be -

A striker who scores :-

1 goal in ten = y

2 goals in ten = y x 2 + z

3 goals in ten = y x 3 + z and so on.

Where z is a value for all the other factors listed above and many more.  Z would not be a static figure either as the difference in points or perceived worth between a ratio of 0.1 - 0.2 may be higher than the difference between 0.2 - 0.3.

There are so many things that come in to play when looking at a player''s value or perceived value.  A player may have just scored a hattrick or a wonder goal which could add 500k to their so called value.

I am not claiming to have created a formula for a striker''s value, or listed every factor that has an effect on a striker''s value, just that, imho a striker''s value cannot just be based on their goal scoring ratio when judging whether they are value for money or not and that you cannot simply claim that a striker who has a goal scoring ratio of 0.6 is only worth 3 times as much as a striker who has a ratio of 0.2.

[GJP 79]

Chris Brown is quite a decent player in my opinion. It''s fairly obvious when you watch him play that he''s quite natural. He''s not Ronaldinho by any means but he''s still a good player.

Good touch, uses the ball well and puts in a bit of hard work.

But I''d like to see him in a settled side with a system that works.

He deserves more of a chance than he''s got. But then again he hasn''t come through our youth setup...no doubt if he had people would be championing his cause for years and years even if he did only stay on the fringes of things and never produce.

[Ginja 26]

[quote user="Smudger"]

Chris Brown is just one of many for me in recent years...

Donkerty, MLJ, Thorne, Jarrett, Hughes, Charlton (and a few other more high profile names)... all not fit enough to wear the shirt!!!!

I have made one error in judgement on the players we have signed over the last few years and I take my hat off to that man... Dion Dublin proved that he was not too old and that he could infact do a job for us... still not sure that I would of signed him though as if I wanted a bit of experience then I would most definetely have gone for Chris Sutton.

Chris Brown is utter c**p and for those saying give the guy a chance, Iwan was c**p in his first season with us etc etc... As JAS points out Iwan was proven Chris Brown is not.

Brown will be lucky enough to play 20 games in a City shirt, nevermind score 20 goals...  I hope that he is the worst signing that Grant makes... because we can''t to afford to employ any more players as poor as him!!!

[/quote]Thats a bit harsh on MLJ, I don''t think he even got one full game to his name. Lets be honset here Smudger and everyone else who hates Brown, like it or not Brown will be a member of the squad come the new season, so I think the b*tching about him is unecessary as it fails to achieve anything, having been discussed to death. Whether he is a good player or not will be decided in the coming season, but based on your other predictions Brown should have a good one [;)] . Seriously though I think its more worthwhile trying to get him to do well, than wish doom and gloom on him, as a cancelled contract will cost the club in the pocket and results. I dont know whether he will be good or not but I don''t know how you can state him as cr*p after only 6 games and having never seen him play, but never mind time will tell, I certainly hope he does well for the sake of the club, surely you smudger should understand that better than anyone else?

[macdougalls perm 0]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="dr livingstone"]

some so called fans always find a player they can slag of all the time.

it has been hughes but he seems to be winning them round, with his effort over the last 2 months of the season.

so its time to look for someone elses back to get on, and chris brown looks like he is the one.

£200.000 thats all we paid for him not £2 million. give him a chance.

[/quote]

Chris Brown is just one of many for me in recent years...

Donkerty, MLJ, Thorne, Jarrett, Hughes, Charlton (and a few other more high profile names)... all not fit enough to wear the shirt!!!!

I have made one error in judgement on the players we have signed over the last few years and I take my hat off to that man... Dion Dublin proved that he was not too old and that he could infact do a job for us... still not sure that I would of signed him though as if I wanted a bit of experience then I would most definetely have gone for Chris Sutton.

Chris Brown is utter c**p and for those saying give the guy a chance, Iwan was c**p in his first season with us etc etc... As JAS points out Iwan was proven Chris Brown is not.

Brown will be lucky enough to play 20 games in a City shirt, nevermind score 20 goals...  I hope that he is the worst signing that Grant makes... because we can''t to afford to employ any more players as poor as him!!!

[/quote]

This is not supposed to be antagonistic but, pretty much by your own admission, you have never seen him play (apart from televised FA Cup game, maybe). I''ll agree that he has hardly set the world alight, I don''t really think he has had much of a chance, for me the jury is out - but how can you give such a scathing review when you haven''t seen him?