Some people on this forum are pathetic

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

Dear all

I don''t post that much any more.  Back in my student days I was on here everyday and I loved the quality of postings and great banter.  However, now I only come on here a few times a week to browse, I am appalled by some of the threads regarding our board and in particular Delia.

People have such spectacularly short memories.  The fact of the matter is that back in the 90s she and Michael saved Norwich City Football Club.  We were minutes from going out of business when they put money in.  That is not spin, it''s not myth, it is FACT.

Delia isn''t worth £275M, she isn''t worth £50M.  I''d be surprised if she was even worth £20M.  She has put her heart, soul and cold hard cash into the football club we love.  Yes the board have made mistakes, most noteably not getting rid of Worthington soon enough.  However, the current board have done so much good for this football club. 

Football is a business.  I would love Norwich to have a state of the art 40,000 seater stadium in Carrow Road.  It''s just not realistic though.  The board got absolutely panned when they sold the land to build the hotel rather than put in a corner infill.  The deal was an absolute no brainer.  We got good money for the land and a stake in the hotel.  Win, win.

Norwich City as a business and as a brand is unrecognisable from 12 years ago.  The catering at Carrow Road is a phenominal success and generates a massive amount of money.  This is solely down to Delia. 

Anyone who thinks that Delia and the board have actively turned away businessmen and turned down hard money to invest in this club need their head examined.  She loves this football club and would give anything to make it a success.  Look at some of the boards we could have had down the years; Leeds, Ipswich, Southampton, Sheff Wed, Luton, Bradford etc etc etc.  Delia and co might not be the richest board in the world, but I bet we would struggle to find a group of people who care about a club and are as passionate.

And so to the present.  The board has just had a shake up and one of the richest couples in the country joins the board.  Does this get unaminous approval?  Of course not, some fans are far too thick skinned (or just thick) for that.  People are moaning because it''s "only" two million, it''s "only" a loan.  For christ sake these people are worth 275 MILLION POUNDS!  And they are sitting on our board!!  This is a massive coup for the club!  An absolute master stroke by our board to get them here and invest in our football club.

I draw my rant to a close.  Football is a fickle industry and this is no more evident than in the fans of the game.  Our board have done wrong in the past.  But the last 10 or 12 years have seen many more good decisions made by our board than bad decisons.

We should thank christ we have them here rather than bitch about them and wish they would go away.

DD

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="DumbleDelia is Magic"]

Dear all

I don''t post that much any more.  Back in my student days I was on here everyday and I loved the quality of postings and great banter.  However, now I only come on here a few times a week to browse, I am appalled by some of the threads regarding our board and in particular Delia.

People have such spectacularly short memories.  The fact of the matter is that back in the 90s she and Michael saved Norwich City Football Club.  We were minutes from going out of business when they put money in.  That is not spin, it''s not myth, it is FACT.

[/quote]

that wouldnt of happened DD.. we werent financially Crippled and the debt wasnt that large (not as large as now) how many clubs have gone bankrupt in the past 20 years??? answer.. a big fat 0. even smaller clubs than us who are financially up the creek are still going.. Bury are ur best example. as are Rotherham.

We''d have gone into administration and been fine. our creditors would of hated it.

jas :)

[Pyro Pete 1,889]

Whatever your opinion of the board of directors, you can''t deny that we are a club in decline. That is where the negativity stems from. Relegation, then a failure to reach the play-offs, followed by a season of stagnation when further relegation was a real possibility once again.I don''t have such strong views against the board as some. But I do feel it is fair to ask who and what is responsible for this decline.

[megson 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="DumbleDelia is Magic"]

Dear all

I don''t post that much any more.  Back in my student days I was on here everyday and I loved the quality of postings and great banter.  However, now I only come on here a few times a week to browse, I am appalled by some of the threads regarding our board and in particular Delia.

People have such spectacularly short memories.  The fact of the matter is that back in the 90s she and Michael saved Norwich City Football Club.  We were minutes from going out of business when they put money in.  That is not spin, it''s not myth, it is FACT.

[/quote]

that wouldnt of happened DD.. we werent financially Crippled and the debt wasnt that large (not as large as now) how many clubs have gone bankrupt in the past 20 years??? answer.. a big fat 0. even smaller clubs than us who are financially up the creek are still going.. Bury are ur best example. as are Rotherham.

We''d have gone into administration and been fine. our creditors would of hated it.

jas :)

[/quote]

Sorry Jas but we wouldn''t

Our debt was with one major creditor who had the power two, and had already threatened, a winding up order.

We had to make the payment requested, within the timescale they gave or it was goodnight.

Which is why the current debt, though larger, is better as its structured and spread meaning we can control it, and no one has the power to call it in on a whime and wind us up.

[Boogle 0]

Dear Dumble

I should point out here that delia didnt save the club watling did-FACT!

Ill also point out im not anti delia, but have doubts over how the club is run.

[mbncfc 1]

[quote user="Pyro Pete"]Whatever your opinion of the board of directors, you can''t deny that we are a club in decline. That is where the negativity stems from.

Relegation, then a failure to reach the play-offs, followed by a season of stagnation when further relegation was a real possibility once again.

I don''t have such strong views against the board as some. But I do feel it is fair to ask who and what is responsible for this decline.


[/quote]

Excellent points Pyro.

I guess the issue a few people have is that if the Board do make steps in the right direction, this should be acknowledged rather than complained about in ways little short of mindless hysteria... IMO

[Paul Lamberts Disciple 0]

You wrote:"The catering at Carrow Road is a phenominal success and

generates a massive amount of money.  This is solely down to Delia."A genius written example of our "cleverer" pies-before-football club strategy. Youve encapsulated, so nicely, the strategy which has angered and alienated so many of our fans. Please tell me you included this as an intentionally ironic comment.

[First Wizard 0]

Dumble D:

Two points mate:

1. Delia DIDN''T save this Club, Mr Watling did!.

2. She alone has stated she''d block any foreign investors, even I suppose, if they offered us £400 million.

I know I''m pathetic, but I do try to get my facts straight...........first!".

[AP16 0]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]

Dumble D:

Two points mate:

1. Delia DIDN''T save this Club, Mr Watling did!.

2. She alone has stated she''d block any foreign investors, even I suppose, if they offered us £400 million.

I know I''m pathetic, but I do try to get my facts straight...........first!".

[/quote]

 

Wizard:

 

One point made.

 

1. Some people on this board are pathetic.

 

Spot on, this board used to be superb, it''s boring, drab and repetetive now.

As DD stated also, I rarely contribute anymore.....

[megson 0]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]

Dumble D:

Two points mate:

1. Delia DIDN''T save this Club, Mr Watling did!.

2. She alone has stated she''d block any foreign investors, even I suppose, if they offered us £400 million.

I know I''m pathetic, but I do try to get my facts straight...........first!".

[/quote]

I don''t remember her stating "even £400 million" at any point, did she?

However blocking foreign investment as blanket policy is a little naive.

I''d prefer the club to be owned the way it is, but we have to be prepared to discuss these offers.

Of course the whole arguement depends entirely on their being a foreign investor that is actually interested in us and hasthat money!

[gazzathegreat 0]

Dumble, you and me perhaps have similar opinons on this board.  There is a time for criticism, and I have not been one to hold back in my thoughts on the board at times, but recently it''s just got way too personal.  It makes you wonder why anyone would wish to put themselves under this level of scrutiny.  I guess most of it must wash over Delia (and whoever) as they probably don''t frequent the internet too much.

Whether all your facts are correct wasn''t the point I think you were trying to make, you were trying to say that some of the posters on here at the moment have short memories.  We do have much to be grateful to Delia for.  Yes, of course she''s made mistakes, who hasn''t?  I certainly have, but as I am not a celebrity or on the NCFC board, then most of you don''t care about them. 

Mr Watling bought out Chase and saved the club from going under.  Yes, but Delia and Michael have also contributed to the club with money and support.  She may not be everyone''s ideal major shareholder, but I can think of several I am glad we don''t have.

Still, sometimes the facts get distorted and ignored if you dare to challenge the majority view.  I hope to see you on here a lot more DD, but I won''t hold my breath! 

[alex_ncfc 648]

[quote user="Safri15"][quote user="1st Wizard"]

Dumble D:

Two points mate:

1. Delia DIDN''T save this Club, Mr Watling did!.

2. She alone has stated she''d block any foreign investors, even I suppose, if they offered us £400 million.

I know I''m pathetic, but I do try to get my facts straight...........first!".

[/quote]

 

Wizard:

 

One point made.

 

1. Some people on this board are pathetic.

 

Spot on, this board used to be superb, it''s boring, drab and repetetive now.

As DD stated also, I rarely contribute anymore.....

[/quote]

It''s a messageboard, which, last time I checked, was free for everyone to enter for debate.

If you don''t like it, then don''t try and take the moral highground by making posts sulking about it. If you think everything is so boring, drab and repetitive, then why do you come on here? Why don''t you try and debate? Or is it the fact that you know most posters (like Wiz) have a point and that this club is fast sliding down sh*t creek?

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Safri15"][quote user="1st Wizard"]

Dumble D:

Two points mate:

1. Delia DIDN''T save this Club, Mr Watling did!.

2. She alone has stated she''d block any foreign investors, even I suppose, if they offered us £400 million.

I know I''m pathetic, but I do try to get my facts straight...........first!".

[/quote]

 

Wizard:

 

One point made.

 

1. Some people on this board are pathetic.

 

Spot on, this board used to be superb, it''s boring, drab and repetetive now.

As DD stated also, I rarely contribute anymore.....

[/quote]

Delia MADE that quote on here Safri!, I didn''t, she did!.

Yes, your one point has been made, have you a mirror handy?.

[Rossi 0]

just a few very brief thoughts:

1) Whether or not delia saved the club or not - i dont recall too many other people coming forward wanting to help.

2) At the time, very few knocked the whole delia notion, despite a joint holding of more than the departing chase

3) Delia is a media personality and it''s inherrent that she will protect her image more so than some other people - she certainly doesnt like to be seen during ''bad times.''

4) Football has changed an awful lot from when delia came in. At the point that she did, and with the failings of TV cash is was important that clubs started to raise additional income streams. The club has been successful in this, but, you have to remember it''s always easier starting such things from scratch.

5) Clubs always look for the next step forward and fans do too, people like to achieve better in all walks of life, sometimes however, someone can only take things so far.

6) Fans see  business plans from the moment we were promoted as completely wrong. We have been told of the relegation hangover (see Sunderland, Birmingham and possibly West Brom.) Out of the clubs relegated since we have we are the only club to not have been in the play-offs or higher; Palace, Southampton)

7) The introduction of new investors is seen wearily by some and postive by others, although its far too early to judge, their CV should bring additional business minded people to the fore, hopefully ones that will be less willing to accept failings.

8) The board have very little footballing knowledge and instead rely heavily on the manager and hide behind the ''would be wrong to interfere'' argument. I personally do not have a problem with this as long as you bring in a proven expereinced manager. If you go cheap and give someone with little expereince a long rein they need to be overlooked by someone who inputs into the board.

9) We are seriously in the mire, anything less than play offs will see us off-loading high wage earners and the non-renewal of hucks'' contract. Delia just wouldnt want to jump ship then as it would be bad for her ''saviour image.'' I personally believe that delia is just waiting for the ideal time to leave from the back door but she has to wait for the time to be right.

10) I''m sure our new investors are interested in bringing majority shareholders and to be frank i really dont care if they are massive canary fans or not, but IMHO the question is only being asked because of delia previous statements.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="megson"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="DumbleDelia is Magic"]

Dear all

I don''t post that much any more.  Back in my student days I was on here everyday and I loved the quality of postings and great banter.  However, now I only come on here a few times a week to browse, I am appalled by some of the threads regarding our board and in particular Delia.

People have such spectacularly short memories.  The fact of the matter is that back in the 90s she and Michael saved Norwich City Football Club.  We were minutes from going out of business when they put money in.  That is not spin, it''s not myth, it is FACT.

[/quote]

that wouldnt of happened DD.. we werent financially Crippled and the debt wasnt that large (not as large as now) how many clubs have gone bankrupt in the past 20 years??? answer.. a big fat 0. even smaller clubs than us who are financially up the creek are still going.. Bury are ur best example. as are Rotherham.

We''d have gone into administration and been fine. our creditors would of hated it.

jas :)

[/quote]

Sorry Jas but we wouldn''t

Our debt was with one major creditor who had the power two, and had already threatened, a winding up order.

We had to make the payment requested, within the timescale they gave or it was goodnight.

Which is why the current debt, though larger, is better as its structured and spread meaning we can control it, and no one has the power to call it in on a whime and wind us up.

[/quote]

One of the main reasons the club got into such financial difficulty was the millions spent on land around the ground and at Colney. I am no expert on these matters but i fail to see how a club could possibly be wound-up when it has fixed assets to sell to pay back the debts (at the time relatively small). I think the worst that could have happened would have been having to sell Colney and the land around the ground for less than we thought it was worth and a squad down to the bare bones.

In response to the initial post,I would define a "massive" amount of money as the £50million a club makes when it puts every effort into building a squad which achieves promotion to the Premiership-not a few £100k profit on catering.

I have been a sceptic of the approach of the current board since we failed to sign Crouch in the Prem.and, especially, the pathetic "attempt" to bounce back the following season by selling several top players for millions and then putting a paltry few £100k (about the same figure as that rumoured to be our catering profit funnily enough.....) back to pay for new players. It is interesting that there are a number of names on here who used to be the first to strongly back the board whenever it was criticised, but now seem to take a much more sceptical view. Some of the anti-board stuff on here is OTT but i think more and more people are wondering where the current board are taking us. Another poster called us a club in decline and i would have to agree with them. Do the board have a plan to halt the decline? And if not, why not?

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

Jas, is it a coincidence that both clubs you mention are in the bottom tier of English football?  I think not.

And as for wavneyblockc, are you suggesting that Delia''s restaurant and others do not make a serious wedge of cash for the club?  Of course they do!  They are vital sources of income which other clubs do not have the luxury of

[Mello Yello 2,281]

Boring, bland and repetitive.......Which ''board'' would that be then......this one, or the NCFC board of Directors?

[Stop The Cook 0]

[quote user="DumbleDelia is Magic"]

Dear all

I don''t post that much any more.  Back in my student days I was on here everyday and I loved the quality of postings and great banter.  However, now I only come on here a few times a week to browse, I am appalled by some of the threads regarding our board and in particular Delia.

People have such spectacularly short memories.  The fact of the matter is that back in the 90s she and Michael saved Norwich City Football Club.  We were minutes from going out of business when they put money in.  That is not spin, it''s not myth, it is FACT.

Delia isn''t worth £275M, she isn''t worth £50M.  I''d be surprised if she was even worth £20M.  She has put her heart, soul and cold hard cash into the football club we love.  Yes the board have made mistakes, most noteably not getting rid of Worthington soon enough.  However, the current board have done so much good for this football club. 

Football is a business.  I would love Norwich to have a state of the art 40,000 seater stadium in Carrow Road.  It''s just not realistic though.  The board got absolutely panned when they sold the land to build the hotel rather than put in a corner infill.  The deal was an absolute no brainer.  We got good money for the land and a stake in the hotel.  Win, win.

Norwich City as a business and as a brand is unrecognisable from 12 years ago.  The catering at Carrow Road is a phenominal success and generates a massive amount of money.  This is solely down to Delia. 

Anyone who thinks that Delia and the board have actively turned away businessmen and turned down hard money to invest in this club need their head examined.  She loves this football club and would give anything to make it a success.  Look at some of the boards we could have had down the years; Leeds, Ipswich, Southampton, Sheff Wed, Luton, Bradford etc etc etc.  Delia and co might not be the richest board in the world, but I bet we would struggle to find a group of people who care about a club and are as passionate.

And so to the present.  The board has just had a shake up and one of the richest couples in the country joins the board.  Does this get unaminous approval?  Of course not, some fans are far too thick skinned (or just thick) for that.  People are moaning because it''s "only" two million, it''s "only" a loan.  For christ sake these people are worth 275 MILLION POUNDS!  And they are sitting on our board!!  This is a massive coup for the club!  An absolute master stroke by our board to get them here and invest in our football club.

I draw my rant to a close.  Football is a fickle industry and this is no more evident than in the fans of the game.  Our board have done wrong in the past.  But the last 10 or 12 years have seen many more good decisions made by our board than bad decisons.

We should thank christ we have them here rather than bitch about them and wish they would go away.

DD

[/quote]

Grow up mate. The losers on here have had plenty of time to back this bunch of amatuers who they endlessly want to protect. Now its time to bite the bullet and act before you lot take us completly down to your level. Just more excuses and some of us have just about had a gut full of it. This 275 million quid you spout about wont be coming our way so dont think it will. They are just two more of Deliah Smiths luvvies come to play with what used to be our club but what is now just a plaything for the few.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

Dumble.

Your avatar is about as relevant as your analysis.[:S]

OTBC

[Stevie Wonder 0]

[quote user="Pyro Pete"]Whatever your opinion of the board of directors, you can''t deny that we are a club in decline. That is where the negativity stems from.

Relegation, then a failure to reach the play-offs, followed by a season of stagnation when further relegation was a real possibility once again.

I don''t have such strong views against the board as some. But I do feel it is fair to ask who and what is responsible for this decline.


[/quote]

What a brilliant post. I couldn''t agree more with your comments.

Interesting to note that DDIM refers to us doubters as having short memories when he was one of the most voiciferous Worthy Outers and had obviously forgotten his achievements earlier in his tenure as manager. Perhaps this board (like Worthy) have reached their sell by date?

[AP16 0]

[quote user="alex_ncfc"][quote user="Safri15"][quote user="1st Wizard"]

Dumble D:

Two points mate:

1. Delia DIDN''T save this Club, Mr Watling did!.

2. She alone has stated she''d block any foreign investors, even I suppose, if they offered us £400 million.

I know I''m pathetic, but I do try to get my facts straight...........first!".

[/quote]

 

Wizard:

 

One point made.

 

1. Some people on this board are pathetic.

 

Spot on, this board used to be superb, it''s boring, drab and repetetive now.

As DD stated also, I rarely contribute anymore.....

[/quote]

It''s a messageboard, which, last time I checked, was free for everyone to enter for debate.

If you don''t like it, then don''t try and take the moral highground by making posts sulking about it. If you think everything is so boring, drab and repetitive, then why do you come on here? Why don''t you try and debate? Or is it the fact that you know most posters (like Wiz) have a point and that this club is fast sliding down sh*t creek?

[/quote]

 

Sulking about it I am not. I rarely come on here any more. If you''ve been awake for the last six months you''ll have seen ''debate''. and lastly if I ''knew'', or rather agreed with that specific school of ''thought'', would I be ''sulking'' about it, I think, and you know, not.

Any more questions Magnus?

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,020]

DD - Delia did step in and save us at the time, but the point you miss is the fact she would not have had the opportunity to do so if the late Mr Watling and the good people of Norwich had not done so many years before, so to use your vernacular Geoffrey Watling is the true saviour of Norwich - Fact.

You quoute a figure of £257m, I am guessing you are refering to a post made by Bly Bly Babes, I think you will find that he/she was refering to the worth of the new Directors rather than to Delia herself

I have no problem with the various enterprises the club has, and I assume they have running costs, how much money do these enterprises actually make and how much finds its way to funding the purchase of players?

What was the cost projection of building an infill?

What was the projected extra income from additional season ticket sales, ticket sales, programmes, pies etc for the new infill?

How does the anticipated cost/revenue from the infill compare with the anticipated cost/revenue from an infill?

I ask you as you appear to have all the facts

You love Delia don`t you[:D]

 

 

 

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="DumbleDelia is Magic"]

Jas, is it a coincidence that both clubs you mention are in the bottom tier of English football?  I think not.

And as for wavneyblockc, are you suggesting that Delia''s restaurant and others do not make a serious wedge of cash for the club?  Of course they do!  They are vital sources of income which other clubs do not have the luxury of

[/quote]

ok.. Sheffield Wedensday.... Explain that one...

jas :)

[Dutch 0]

Hang on MEGSON!

Are you seriously saying we are better off owing more money to several people than to owe more money to several others? It wasnt goodnight if we didnt make payment. The last case of that was acrington stanley many many many years ago, when the days of a big hairy debt collecter muscling money out of oaps existed. Times have changed and during this period we were no where near being shut down.

This is by far the least impressive defence of delia i have heard. Your credability is gone sir!

[Dutch 0]

Oh dear DUMBLEDELIA

if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen!

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

"Some people on this forum are pathetic''

I guess it takes one to know one.

One love.

OTBC

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

One of the main reasons the club got into such financial difficulty was the millions spent on land around the ground and at Colney. I am no expert on these matters but i fail to see how a club could possibly be wound-up when it has fixed assets to sell to pay back the debts (at the time relatively small). I think the worst that could have happened would have been having to sell Colney and the land around the ground for less than we thought it was worth and a squad down to the bare bones.

[/quote]

Agree with that Mr Carrow.  I find it highly unlikely the club would have been wound up considering the assets it had at the time.  It''s more likely that the courts would have appointed an administrator to oversee the sale of the club first and it''s assets later if needed.  There is no way they would have sent a liquidator or official receiever in to dismantle the club without attempting to sell the club to anyone wishing to purchase.

 

[mbncfc 1]

Re: Some people on this forum are pathetic?

[quote user="Stop The Cook"]

Grow up mate. The losers on here have had plenty of time to back this bunch of amatuers who they endlessly want to protect. Now its time to bite the bullet and act before you lot take us completly down to your level. Just more excuses and some of us have just about had a gut full of it. This 275 million quid you spout about wont be coming our way so dont think it will. They are just two more of Deliah Smiths luvvies come to play with what used to be our club but what is now just a plaything for the few.

[/quote]

I''m not saying anything... [:#]

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]They are just two more of Deliah Smiths luvvies come to play with what used to be our club but what is now just a plaything for the few.[/quote]

To quote a poster who has since left us, Utter Bilge.  "What used to be our club" ?  Let''s see.  It was Watlings club.  It was Souths'' club.  It was Chases'' club, Watlings club again briefly, and now its'' the current directors'' club.

This club has always been owned by the few, as are the vast majority of clubs in this country.  You only pay to attend.   If you want to support a club that is owned by the fans, try FC Barcelona.    Their club charges a membership fee on top of the season ticket price, and votes in an elected president from the membership.

There are always people like you who talk the talk, but you don''t have the wallet to walk the walk, so you try and hijack the people who have been kind enough to empty their pockets to keep the club going with anger, protest and disorder.  Thankfully, anyone with a small amount of common sense will see straight through your rabble-rousing.

[CambridgeCanary 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

[quote]They are just two more of Deliah Smiths luvvies come to play with what used to be our club but what is now just a plaything for the few.[/quote]

To quote a poster who has since left us, Utter Bilge.  "What used to be our club" ?  Let''s see.  It was Watlings club.  It was Souths'' club.  It was Chases'' club, Watlings club again briefly, and now its'' the current directors'' club.

This club has always been owned by the few, as are the vast majority of clubs in this country.  You only pay to attend.   If you want to support a club that is owned by the fans, try FC Barcelona.    Their club charges a membership fee on top of the season ticket price, and votes in an elected president from the membership.

There are always people like you who talk the talk, but you don''t have the wallet to walk the walk, so you try and hijack the people who have been kind enough to empty their pockets to keep the club going with anger, protest and disorder.  Thankfully, anyone with a small amount of common sense will see straight through your rabble-rousing.

[/quote] Bang on BBB (notwithstanding our jousts elsewhere).

Perhaps the most inaccurate claim ever on these Boards is that this Club belongs to us.  We may be emotional stakeholders who invest a lot of time, love and money into NCFC but it does not belong to us and never did.

Remember the Man U. fans demonstrating pre Glazer that their club was not for sale?   That about a publicly quoted PLC which was available for purchase by anyone with the money just like Boots or Abbey.  The Club was for sale the moment it raised money on the Stock Exchange.  Going to matches gives us no greater ownership voting for the controlling party on the council gives a tenant ownership of the council house she lives in.

We are consumers and have the choice whether to consume or not.  Most of us are addicted to this consumption and have as little real choice as the addicted smoker has to refuse his 20 Mayfair.  Nonetheless, we buy a product.  Only football fans believe that buying a product gives us a right to demand the product we want.  No one pickets a Ford dealer demanding that the cars are better made or that the range is more suited to our needs.  You just go to Vauxhall, Audi or whoever suits your requirements.   If Andrex quality slumps then we buy something else.

In football, the reverse is true.  Glory hunters are despised and true fans consume the product irrespective of quality.  More fools us some would say.  We make that choice.  At least recognise the situation for what it is.

(The logical conclusion of course is to change business by affecting the bottom line.  If a product isn''t selling then the business must change or die.  The boycotts urged by Cluck/Smudger are economically sensible.  They are simply overidden by our addiction which is why Cluck/Smudger will fail except in the most acute Chaselike crisis)