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Canary Boy

IS THIS GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU ALL?

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When Norwich City and Nigel Worthington parted company after the 1-4 defeat to Burnly, we were all expecting/hoping for someone to come in and propell Norwich up the table to make the play-offs....or at least it is what hoped.Most people on this forum said, "Judge Grant from January when he has the chance to make the team his own". Most (including myself) agreed and waited eagerly for sweeping changes in the transfer window and a new look Norwich City taking the Championship by storm in the second part of the season.Well, thought it would be interesting now our season is over with "nothing to play for"...to look at Grant''s record since January 1st 2007.....P     W     D     L     F     A     PTS19    7      2     10   21    29     23............points out of a possible 57)When Nigel Worthington was sacked, we were 17th in the Championship, now we are 16th.IMO, this is not good enough and at this stage, we don''t look anywhere near like being promoted next season either.My question is, has anything changed and what are your thoughts on this new manager? Was it a rash decison by the board to sign Grant? Was he all they could afford? Does anyone on the inside know who else was interviewed for the job? (that''ll be interesting?) It appears that the favourite with the bookies and the fans (Mark Bowan) wasn''t even approached?Thoughts.....

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Bloody hell, give it some time lad. How you''ve expected Grant to come in and turn crap players into good players instantly is a bit silly in my opinion. You can''t expect a total team revamp with limited funds, and expect them all to gel in the space of the january transfer window. I agree with you that we maybe should have done better, but we''ve had some good results this season and I''m pretty confident he''s the man to take us forwards. Providing he gets some money to spend over the summer I''m confident we''ll do well next year. I am also of the opinion the Grant will not is looking to ship out the dead wood, hence the imminent departures of McFatboy and Thorne.

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How much time should we give him Safri15?This was a debate that arose in the Worthy era....let''s give him a little bit longer.Look at what Roy Keane has done at Sunderland, look at Geraint Williams at Colchester. Brian Laws at Sheffield Wednesday is another one. It just shows what the right manager can do with a squad after spending very little money. Our squad is no worse than theirs. They have made good progress this season, yet, as I pointed out above, we have made one place since Worthy left.I don''t think Grant has been able to motivate the players this season like other could have done.Yes, I''ll give Grant more time, but I have seen little or no change in the 34 league games he has been in charge.

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[quote user="Safri15"]Bloody hell, give it some time lad. How you''ve expected Grant to come in and turn crap players into good players instantly is a bit silly in my opinion. You can''t expect a total team revamp with limited funds, and expect them all to gel in the space of the january transfer window.

I agree with you that we maybe should have done better, but we''ve had some good results this season and I''m pretty confident he''s the man to take us forwards.

Providing he gets some money to spend over the summer I''m confident we''ll do well next year. I am also of the opinion the Grant will not is looking to ship out the dead wood, hence the imminent departures of McFatboy and Thorne.


[/quote]

 

typo.....grant IS looking to ship out the dead wood.

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[quote user="Safri15"]Bloody hell, give it some time lad. How you''ve expected Grant to come in and turn crap players into good players instantly is a bit silly in my opinion. You can''t expect a total team revamp with limited funds, and expect them all to gel in the space of the january transfer window.

I agree with you that we maybe should have done better, but we''ve had some good results this season and I''m pretty confident he''s the man to take us forwards.

Providing he gets some money to spend over the summer I''m confident we''ll do well next year. I am also of the opinion the Grant will not is looking to ship out the dead wood, hence the imminent departures of McFatboy and Thorne.


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Nobody expects miracles but i think an improvement would be nice and i dont see it, everyone kept harping on about january that cant be denied and his signings are very average, our home record is not good enough and the football at times is Dross. Still should be ok in summer more SPL reserves and non leaguers, get ready for another tame season.

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[quote user="ricky knight"]

[quote user="Safri15"]Bloody hell, give it some time lad. How you''ve expected Grant to come in and turn crap players into good players instantly is a bit silly in my opinion. You can''t expect a total team revamp with limited funds, and expect them all to gel in the space of the january transfer window.

I agree with you that we maybe should have done better, but we''ve had some good results this season and I''m pretty confident he''s the man to take us forwards.

Providing he gets some money to spend over the summer I''m confident we''ll do well next year. I am also of the opinion the Grant will not is looking to ship out the dead wood, hence the imminent departures of McFatboy and Thorne.


[/quote]

 

Nobody expects miracles but i think an improvement would be nice and i dont see it, everyone kept harping on about january that cant be denied and his signings are very average, our home record is not good enough and the football at times is Dross. Still should be ok in summer more SPL reserves and non leaguers, get ready for another tame season.

[/quote]

Exactly, RK - Grant can talk the talk but....

Still waiting on that one, and we haven''t seen much of an improvement. The honeymoon period is almost over.

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its all very well to compare grant to new managers like keane at sunderland but at least he has been able to get players in - stokes, stern john, miller to name a few.

we''ve not really got anyone in, nor does it seem can we afford to espec with the end of our parachute payments.

see what happens in the summer maybe we will get a few bargins like lappin seems to be.

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Firstly, I''d like to say that this season has been very disappointing, even under Grant. No mitigation is going to take away that feeling, but I thought we were all perfectly aware of what to expect once we changed manager during the season.

 There were numerous threads on here discussing the fact that, with the size of the rebuilding required, no judgement could be made on any new manager until after the summer. The goalposts cannot suddenly move.

Raking over old ground I know, but Worthy already had a number of seasons in charge before giving him any longer became an issue. Grant has had 6 months. I think we can give him a little longer to try to prove people wrong - maybe even a whole summer??

Brian Laws has done very well indeed, but do we actually have a squad as good as their? Or just more expensive. Geraint Williams has had an excellent season with a tight bunch of players he already knew inside out. Roy Keane has spent millions and they were in a slightly false position when he joined.

PG, and Norwich, haven''t been good enough this season and have a lot to prove. But you have to give him at least one full season surely? Or maybe we should just try to tempt Sam Allardyce. I have no idea why he wouldn''t fancy it... [*-)]

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No, it''s not good enoughHowever, my view is tempered by the situation that Grant inherited and I''m willing to give him a chance to build his own team at Colney and on the pitch (lack of money cannot be an excuse - I''m guessing he knew there wasn''t any when he took the job)If results are still not going right come Xmas then my opinion might have changed.I do believe that Grant means what he says and honestly believes it. Unfortunately he really needs to stop talking so much, promising change/a hard line/ruthlessness on and off the pitch if he doesn''t follow it through. Actions speak louder than words and all that.

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I think we have to give Grant more time but we are not moving forward and I share your concerns Canary Boy. Grant has not been around that long but there are things that should have improved almost immediately.

What you can expect of a new manager is a boost in motivation and effort with out of favour players being given a clean slate. This patently has not happened with Grant - Saturday''s pathetic low key performance being the latest in a long line.

Also he has had one transfer window to work with which we can assess. So far Grant has, IMO, spent very badly. Brown and Fotheringham are disasters and if he brings in more of the same standard he will weaken a poor team further. I''m worried that it took him months to realise that Safri was better than Robinson and that he has stated that Brown is a better foil for Earnshaw than Dublin. 

I''m hoping I''m wrong but I think next season will be worse than this one. 

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[quote user="Safri15"]

[quote user="Safri15"]Bloody hell, give it some time lad. How you''ve expected Grant to come in and turn crap players into good players instantly is a bit silly in my opinion. You can''t expect a total team revamp with limited funds, and expect them all to gel in the space of the january transfer window.

I agree with you that we maybe should have done better, but we''ve had some good results this season and I''m pretty confident he''s the man to take us forwards.

Providing he gets some money to spend over the summer I''m confident we''ll do well next year. I am also of the opinion the Grant will not is looking to ship out the dead wood, hence the imminent departures of McFatboy and Thorne.


[/quote]

 

typo.....grant IS looking to ship out the dead wood.

[/quote]

Sadly Saf...Grant has imported just as much deadwood as he has ejected. He''s had plenty of time to show what his is capable of....and I think 16th in the Championship is as good as it will get. He''s poor tactically and has a journeyman''s eye for talent.

He''ll be gone by the end of next season....and DS will wriggle and squirm once more while Doncaster "spins" yet more excuses for renewing your season tickets.

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[quote user="Canary Boy"]How much time should we give him Safri15?

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A bit longer than 6 months -

As for comparing Grant to Keano, he hasn''t exactly had the money that hes had to buy new players has he?

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Grant is up against it. He has inherited a squad too small, and with too much deadwood, and unlike his predecessor there will apparently not be millions to spend. To lose Marshall so quickly and also Ernie within the month has made it hard for him, and injuries have piled up at times, with the result that there were 5 teenagers in the squad for one game.I was one who felt that it was asking too much for him to rectifiy all the squad deficiencies in the January window, bearing in mind that finances were tight, players of quality were likely to be expensive because they need to be replaced and even loan agreements were requiring loan fees bordering on the ridiculous.I seriously doubt that there will be finances in the summer sufficient to enlarge on the meagre squad he inherited and to improve its quality. Gone are the days when we could spend vast sums - something like £15m in the Worthy period without the various extra payments, so we are in for a longish haul before we have numbers to cover adequately for injuries as well as getting rid of the deadwood and improving quality.In my book Grant has shown an urgency and commitment which suggests that it will not be for want to trying if we fail - he watches most youth matches, sees next opponenets as often as he can, looks at possible players, even in Hungary, makes enquiries about Bosmans and has taken steps to evaluate the quality of youth players. All these are improvements. I suspect that unlike his predecessor there will be no wait until too late in July before desperately trying to sign players. My concern is that he will burn himself out!

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Maybe it should have been the Charlatan Model and not the Charlton Model - that we based our proposed future success on?

Personally, I blame us, the unrealistic and selfish sods for all the unrest that is swirling around the club.....It''s all our fault for not having the patience - and that a five year plan doesn''t actually mean five years.........it actually means 5 yores.[:|]

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Everyones disapointed in him are they? I''m afraid im content if not estastic at him so far. A few points i remnd myself though which warms me for the incoming season:1. We have Earnshaw, a 25+ goalscorer every season.2. We have huckerby. In my opinion and many others the best attacking player outside the championship3. Martin looks very promising and could well give us a second striker we desperately need.4. Our central midfield, if not hit by injuries, is looking stronger. Dickson has shown much improvement this season, safri is a capable midfielder (if not injured) and spillane looks quite good. Hopefully grant will identify this area as needing some more strength and next season we maybe better in this department.5. He can tell a good winger when he sees one, lappin was a bargain and is young and versitile, and hopefully we can get a better right winger in.6. He''s realised doherty is rubbish and has played Dublin often (maybe not often enough) and got Shackell playing better, again a bit more depth and it''s a capable defence.7. He can see gallagher is useless and wants a new keeper. Good i say.8. HE PLAYS YOUTH PLAYERS!!!!!!!! and for that alone im content as if you put faith and time in youth players they will come good and can always be offloaded or improved and are not journeymen8 reasons to be cheerful!

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I would swing from a chandelier if Allardyce was our next manager, but alas, he has bigger fish to fry..... getting Newcastle some silver ware next season as well as a Champions League place.[:(]

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I''d say give Granty a full season at the very least. Its been a very disappointing season theres no denying that, but we need to look at the positives.

Next season the deadwood (Thorne, McVeigh) will be shipped out.

Youth is being given a chance, whether its here or out on loan.

Grant has made some good signings. Lappin seems to be a hit and credit should be due for the way he brought Chris Martin into the fray. The loan signings of Marshall & Warner are also good aquisitions, however, the jury is still out on Fotheringham.

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Much will depend on what happens when Grant is given a proper transfer budget in the genuine transfer window of the summer rather than the frantic and often misleading one in January when many teams don''t want the good players to go half way through, especially to their rivals.

I see more tactical nous in Grant than NW. While confusing I could see what he was trying to do against both Ipswich and Saints recently and while some of those thoughts didn''t work he realised that and changed things around again. One small example was swapping Etuhu into left midfield to strengthen that side as Lappin was clearly struggling.

From what I hear PG has plans for the academy and revamping the whole youth and scouting system which had declined under Worthington. So there is stuff behind the scenes which many of us do not see which also needs to be taken into account.

However bottom line is that signs of improvement have been few on matchdays. The major positive is that some confidnce has returned- we recovered to win crucial games against Barnsley and Luton away and both Etuhu and Hughes have shonw improvements in form. he wasn''t helped by Earnie getting inujured and Safri''s continued problems.

We should expect a big improvement next year. I get the impression that there will be many leaving. hopefully we will get one or two big inward signings and some general squad strengthening. But Spillane and Martin look very promising and could mature well, Eagle has had some nice moments and Renton looked quite bright in the few minutes he has had. We''ll need to see what happnes to the Jarvis brothers but suddenly the home grown talent looks a little more positive than for many years and that can only be a good thing.

For me the jury is still out. I don''t see much tangible evidence of an upturn yet, but as I mention above there is some hope, but we should be expecting a top 10 finish next year and as a stretch target the play offs.

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