The Luton Equation!

[ricardo 7,345]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]

Now, as one poster managed to corrupt this thread''s topic all by themselves, can we now get back on subject please.....

I hope the board looks at Luton''''s case, and do some serious thinking. Yes, I agree, that we have to not bankrupt the club, but I''ve always believed that with them, prudence rules their ambition.

Howard of Luton being but one example.

With Grant, I think they may have unearthed a rough diamond, but it needs careful polishing and support to sparkel and shine.

God, I hope they see this too.

[/quote]

Agreed Wiz.

It''s a shame people can''t stick to the point of your thread which I thought would elicit some sensible opinions. I don''t think our board can be compared to Luton''s. They sold their best players for cash and bought nobody. Now it seems they have siphoned of the cash illegally into other companies. Did we we do the same? Not in my opinion, so where can we be compared with them?

I think Grant may turn out to be a good manager. He seems to be assembling a decent squad and I am sure he will be getting rid of some of the dead wood in the summer. He is not scared of giving the young boys a chance. I thought Martin looked pretty assured when he came on yesterday and Spillane also looks a good prospect.

If the board backs him with a few quid in the summer we may yet have a season to remember in 2008.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="ricardo"]

I think Grant may turn out to be a good manager.

If the board backs him with a few quid in the summer we may yet have a season to remember in 2008.

[/quote]

Thanks for your support on that Ricardo.

You just know I''m going to agree with your two points I highlighted here, yes?, and the investment is paramount, I believe that given that support, Granty is going to suprise a few people next year.

Its gonna be fun watching it unfold.

[dickyst220 0]

Jury is still out on Grant, I have no doubt he has done a lot of good. BUT look at the subs he made on Sunday,hardly inspired. Yes he needs backing with hard cash, BUT there are question marks over some of his spends so far. However, is this because he has not had enough money to buy quality, or because he has made bad buys ?????

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="1st Wizard"]

Now, as one poster managed to corrupt this thread''s topic all by themselves, can we now get back on subject please.....

I hope the board looks at Luton''''s case, and do some serious thinking. Yes, I agree, that we have to not bankrupt the club, but I''ve always believed that with them, prudence rules their ambition.

Howard of Luton being but one example.

With Grant, I think they may have unearthed a rough diamond, but it needs careful polishing and support to sparkel and shine.

God, I hope they see this too.

[/quote]

Agreed Wiz.

It''s a shame people can''t stick to the point of your thread which I thought would elicit some sensible opinions. I don''t think our board can be compared to Luton''s. They sold their best players for cash and bought nobody. Now it seems they have siphoned of the cash illegally into other companies. Did we we do the same? Not in my opinion, so where can we be compared with them?

I think Grant may turn out to be a good manager. He seems to be assembling a decent squad and I am sure he will be getting rid of some of the dead wood in the summer. He is not scared of giving the young boys a chance. I thought Martin looked pretty assured when he came on yesterday and Spillane also looks a good prospect.

If the board backs him with a few quid in the summer we may yet have a season to remember in 2008.

[/quote]

This is the bit that bothers me.  Where exactly is this decent squad?  I can count Lappin, Brown, Fotheringham and a loan keeper....but all the rest are either kids brought in who were already here, or Worthy''s last stand of Dublin and sicknote Chadwick. What "assembling" has actually taken place?

Am I missing something or are too many people living in cuckoo land about the players at the club?....and what exactly has Grant done for his money since his arrival? 15th place in the league after most of the season aint rocking my world I must admit....and maybe Luton just didn''t get the jammy results we''ve relied so heavily upon to stay in this division.

 

[In Dubious Battle 0]

[quote user="Cluck "]

This is the bit that bothers me.  Where exactly is this decent squad?  I can count Lappin, Brown, Fotheringham and a loan keeper....but all the rest are either kids brought in who were already here, or Worthy''s last stand of Dublin and sicknote Chadwick. What "assembling" has actually taken place?

[/quote]

Sorry to be picky but grant signed chadwick not worthington and i hardly think it''s the manager''s fault if a pleyer gets injured!

[Big A 0]

OK, with the benefit of a good nights sleep i''ve just read back on this thread and realise that some of my views were below the belt.Firstly, I apologise, not only the Cluck, Wizard etc. but to anybody else who felt my views were out of line.  Whilst we don''t see eye to eye on NCFC issues (and probably never will) I think we can all agree that we have said things inthis thread that were unecessaryWiz, Cluck.  I hope you can accept this apology.  Whilst i still stand by my points regarding your Luton theory, I cannot let my other comments just pass by.  So again i apologise.Onward and (hopefully) upwards.

[lucky green trainers 0]

[quote user="Cluck "][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="1st Wizard"]

Now, as one poster managed to corrupt this thread''s topic all by themselves, can we now get back on subject please.....

I hope the board looks at Luton''''s case, and do some serious thinking. Yes, I agree, that we have to not bankrupt the club, but I''ve always believed that with them, prudence rules their ambition.

Howard of Luton being but one example.

With Grant, I think they may have unearthed a rough diamond, but it needs careful polishing and support to sparkel and shine.

God, I hope they see this too.

[/quote]

Agreed Wiz.

It''s a shame people can''t stick to the point of your thread which I thought would elicit some sensible opinions. I don''t think our board can be compared to Luton''s. They sold their best players for cash and bought nobody. Now it seems they have siphoned of the cash illegally into other companies. Did we we do the same? Not in my opinion, so where can we be compared with them?

I think Grant may turn out to be a good manager. He seems to be assembling a decent squad and I am sure he will be getting rid of some of the dead wood in the summer. He is not scared of giving the young boys a chance. I thought Martin looked pretty assured when he came on yesterday and Spillane also looks a good prospect.

If the board backs him with a few quid in the summer we may yet have a season to remember in 2008.

[/quote]

This is the bit that bothers me.  Where exactly is this decent squad?  I can count Lappin, Brown, Fotheringham and a loan keeper....but all the rest are either kids brought in who were already here, or Worthy''s last stand of Dublin and sicknote Chadwick. What "assembling" has actually taken place?

Am I missing something or are too many people living in cuckoo land about the players at the club?....and what exactly has Grant done for his money since his arrival? 15th place in the league after most of the season aint rocking my world I must admit....and maybe Luton just didn''t get the jammy results we''ve relied so heavily upon to stay in this division.

[/quote]i think i''m right in saying that when we played sunderland at home, we were roughly on the same points, and lets face it sunderland hardly gave a champions display - they lacked bite in the final third and i didn''t for one minute think they''d be top 3 now challenging for auto promo.  sure keane  had  the backing of their board has has greater financial muscle, but to be fair to him, he''s also spotted  winners -  and remodelled the entire defence he inherited from McCarthy. meanwhile, grant chopped and changed his goalies, brought chadders in, who imo is a decent player, but had to wait for the last day of the jan window to get lappin and fozzie in - despite earnie being injured.  the goals martin and hucks got saved us from relegation - and how could the board predict with any certainty that they would take up the slack from an absent earnie? imo they couldn''t - they gambled and won.i think grant has coaching ability - certainly he''s getting the best from dicko at long last.  i like the way we look to craft goals from picking players out in the area, rather than hoofing the ball in.  i like him better as a person than worthy, but that counts for sod all.  i like the fact we''re winning away.  however, the board need to back grant in the summer -  adie boothroyd and dave jones have proved that decent players can be picked up on free''s -  but the present squad is average at best.  its needs improving by some way if we''re to challenge next season.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Cluck "][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="1st Wizard"]

Now, as one poster managed to corrupt this thread''s topic all by themselves, can we now get back on subject please.....

I hope the board looks at Luton''''s case, and do some serious thinking. Yes, I agree, that we have to not bankrupt the club, but I''ve always believed that with them, prudence rules their ambition.

Howard of Luton being but one example.

With Grant, I think they may have unearthed a rough diamond, but it needs careful polishing and support to sparkel and shine.

God, I hope they see this too.

[/quote]

Agreed Wiz.

It''s a shame people can''t stick to the point of your thread which I thought would elicit some sensible opinions. I don''t think our board can be compared to Luton''s. They sold their best players for cash and bought nobody. Now it seems they have siphoned of the cash illegally into other companies. Did we we do the same? Not in my opinion, so where can we be compared with them?

I think Grant may turn out to be a good manager. He seems to be assembling a decent squad and I am sure he will be getting rid of some of the dead wood in the summer. He is not scared of giving the young boys a chance. I thought Martin looked pretty assured when he came on yesterday and Spillane also looks a good prospect.

If the board backs him with a few quid in the summer we may yet have a season to remember in 2008.

[/quote]

Am I missing something or are too many people living in cuckoo land about the players at the club?....and what exactly has Grant done for his money since his arrival? 15th place in the league after most of the season aint rocking my world I must admit....and maybe Luton just didn''t get the jammy results we''ve relied so heavily upon to stay in this division.

 

[/quote]

Cluck - is there any chance that maybe a basis for an honest assesment of where this club is at now we could all agree that at nearly the end of a 46 game season the league table would be a true reflection of our season and our standing among other clubs in this league.

If  "jammy results" are the reason we are  a full 20 points above Luton then it could be argued that without a few "unlucky last minute defeats" we would be in the play-offs where the gap of 13 points is considerably smaller.

It''s all about spin unless we accept where we finish is where we deserve to be.

 

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"][quote user="Cluck "]

This is the bit that bothers me.  Where exactly is this decent squad?  I can count Lappin, Brown, Fotheringham and a loan keeper....but all the rest are either kids brought in who were already here, or Worthy''s last stand of Dublin and sicknote Chadwick. What "assembling" has actually taken place?

[/quote]

Sorry to be picky but grant signed chadwick not worthington and i hardly think it''s the manager''s fault if a pleyer gets injured!

[/quote]

I mentioned this earlier on in the season and was assured that Worthington had already got Chadwick on board before Grant took him on.  If I''m wrong then I add him to the list...but being notoriously injury prone, he isn''t going to be what we need to challenge for promotion next year...and after all that has to be the aim doesn''t it?

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="Big A"]OK, with the benefit of a good nights sleep i''ve just read back on this thread and realise that some of my views were below the belt.

Firstly, I apologise, not only the Cluck, Wizard etc. but to anybody else who felt my views were out of line.  Whilst we don''t see eye to eye on NCFC issues (and probably never will) I think we can all agree that we have said things inthis thread that were unecessary

Wiz, Cluck.  I hope you can accept this apology.  Whilst i still stand by my points regarding your Luton theory, I cannot let my other comments just pass by.  So again i apologise.

Onward and (hopefully) upwards.




[/quote]

I don''t ever take offence on here Big A because I don''t think what I have to say is really that important.  It''s just opinion...and I think most other posters by now know I''m always up for a ding dong!      [;)]

As far as I''m concerned it''s all water under the bridge...but I just ask you to try to understand that some of us go back a fair bit with this club and have experienced far better times than we have today.  In truth we all care about NCFC and where it is headed....but how we express it is sometimes very different. It''s much easier to accept things are ok at the club as long as we "keep the faith"....so being critical and speaking out isn''t the "cheap shot" it''s claimed to be....it''s just being concerned for us all and wanting something rather better........ 

Until our next fight then............[:)]

[ricardo 7,345]

[quote user="Cluck "][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="1st Wizard"]

Now, as one poster managed to corrupt this thread''s topic all by themselves, can we now get back on subject please.....

I hope the board looks at Luton''''s case, and do some serious thinking. Yes, I agree, that we have to not bankrupt the club, but I''ve always believed that with them, prudence rules their ambition.

Howard of Luton being but one example.

With Grant, I think they may have unearthed a rough diamond, but it needs careful polishing and support to sparkel and shine.

God, I hope they see this too.

[/quote]

Agreed Wiz.

It''s a shame people can''t stick to the point of your thread which I thought would elicit some sensible opinions. I don''t think our board can be compared to Luton''s. They sold their best players for cash and bought nobody. Now it seems they have siphoned of the cash illegally into other companies. Did we we do the same? Not in my opinion, so where can we be compared with them?

I think Grant may turn out to be a good manager. He seems to be assembling a decent squad and I am sure he will be getting rid of some of the dead wood in the summer. He is not scared of giving the young boys a chance. I thought Martin looked pretty assured when he came on yesterday and Spillane also looks a good prospect.

If the board backs him with a few quid in the summer we may yet have a season to remember in 2008.

[/quote]

This is the bit that bothers me.  Where exactly is this decent squad?  I can count Lappin, Brown, Fotheringham and a loan keeper....but all the rest are either kids brought in who were already here, or Worthy''s last stand of Dublin and sicknote Chadwick. What "assembling" has actually taken place?

Am I missing something or are too many people living in cuckoo land about the players at the club?....and what exactly has Grant done for his money since his arrival? 15th place in the league after most of the season aint rocking my world I must admit....and maybe Luton just didn''t get the jammy results we''ve relied so heavily upon to stay in this division.

 

[/quote]

I sincerely hope that I am not living in cloud cuccoo land Cluck. (you forgot Chadwick by the way)

All I am saying is that Grant inherited a team on the slide and one sadly lacking in confidence. You seem to want to kick his @rse before he''s even had a chance.His first job was to arrest that slide by stabilising the situation. I believe he has done just that (despite the predictions of the gloom merchants). The entire season has been an injury nightmare so there has been very little chance of playing a settled side.

He has brought a few players in for very little outlay, secured Hucks contract for another year and given some of the more promising yougsters some much needed experience. We will not know until next season whether these guys are going to be good enough but I for one am prepared to back Grants judgement and give them all a chance. I am also sure that he has identified the dead wood and we will see quite a few departures in the summer.

Regarding your idea of "jammy results". We have indeed picked up some undeserved points this season but equally we have lost plenty of points in games we should have won. Every team in the division can make similar claims.

I noticed that you thought our last minute winner against Luton was a jammy result. Funny how you see last minute goals that we have conceeded in an entirely different light.

 

[Gentleman Jim 0]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]

I''m 100% behind that Celia.

However, I would welcome further views on this subject.

I know Cluck, and maybe Smudger, disagree with me on the Grant debate, but we still get along and respect each others views.

But I''d love to hear from more posters please.

[/quote]

I agree the Celia comment Wiz, Well said Celia, as  Moderator why not just block such posts  ?

As you welcome views on the thread topic Wiz I venture to suggest,

 The City Board probably do take note of the Luton situation, indeed I''m sure they are equally mindful also of  the many other clubs that have gone the other way and so overstretched themselves financially and come to a similar sticky end and that is the reason maybe for their "careful " handling of the club''s cash. Their position is like a tightrope, too much either way could spell disaster and we with the benefit of hindsight we will be ready to castigate them.

With regards to Grant, I didn''t like him initially and he hasn''t done much yet to help me change my mind, I feel he does not have the managerial ability to acheive his loudly spouted aspirations (which I am sure are sincere), but if he does prove me wrong I will be as delighted as yourself.

 

[hogesar 9,618]

[quote user="Web Team - Celia Sutton"]

Can we stop the personal comment from now please?

Thanks

Celia

[/quote]

If i''m being completely honest, they shouldnt be allowed through to be posted in the first place. Therefore there never would be a problem, would there?

hogesar

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Big A"]

Firstly, I apologise, not only the Cluck, Wizard etc. but to anybody else who felt my views were out of line.  Whilst we don''t see eye to eye on NCFC issues (and probably never will) I think we can all agree that we have said things inthis thread that were unecessary

Wiz, Cluck.  I hope you can accept this apology.  Whilst i still stand by my points regarding your Luton theory, I cannot let my other comments just pass by.  So again i apologise.

Onward and (hopefully) upwards.




[/quote]

Big A:

Firstly, I always have had total respect for posters who have the ability to apologise, and of course, I accept yours and offer mine if I''ve caused you any offence as well.

At the end off the day, we''re both mad City fans at heart, who just go about things differently. In the past, the old 1st wiz could be a right old pain in the arse, and I know you''ll agree with me there!.[;)]

But I am trying to mellow, a little, hence my support for Grant, even though I''m not totally convinced by him.

However, I''m not naive enough to think that you and I will agree much on City matters, but if our future disagreements could be of a more polite nature...................then I for one will be delighted.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Gorleston Jim"]

With regards to Grant, I didn''t like him initially and he hasn''t done much yet to help me change my mind, I feel he does not have the managerial ability to acheive his loudly spouted aspirations (which I am sure are sincere), but if he does prove me wrong I will be as delighted as yourself.

 

[/quote]

Cheers for your imput Jim, and I''ve highlighted the part of your post that I have some empathy with. I try to keep in mind the mental state of the team when Granty took over.

It was a mess under Worthy at the end, and I saw his first jobs as stablising the results, giving the players and fans confidence and keeping us up.

Whichever way you slice it, this, he has achieved.

Now on to next season, it will be interesting to see just who he keeps and lets go, and who he signs. I''ve already been impressed with his positive attitude towards the youth, so you see, he ticks an awful lot of boxes.

My big doubt area is his lack of experience at managerial level, and for that, the whole of next season must be giving over to him to show his true metal.

After that..............................................

[JC 0]

Worthington is history, and we have a new manager.  At the end of this season we all hope to see the underachievers go, and to be replaced with fresh blood.  We all hope to see the board refuse to sell Earnie.

From where I am standing, at the dawn of a completely fresh team on the pitch and on the coaching side, next season is the ''last chance saloon'' for our current board.  A season of selling Earnie, no team strengthening, and a mid table or lower finish, from a team with the THIRD biggest attendance in the division confirmed, is a disgrace and I would hope lead to a change at the top of the club, by force if neccessary (the force of opinion I hasten to add, I am not advocating seeing certain posters on this board in balaclava''s holding a gun to Delia''s head and declaring a coup!).

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="JC"]

I am not advocating seeing certain posters on this board in balaclava''s holding a gun to Delia''s head and declaring a coup!.

[/quote]

You old spoil-sport JC![;)]

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="JC"]

I am not advocating seeing certain posters on this board in balaclava''s holding a gun to Delia''s head and declaring a coup!.

[/quote]

You old spoil-sport JC![;)]

[/quote]

hehehe I like it Wiz!!!

As for JC... is that a little jibe at my ealier comments this season with regards to the fans FORCING Auntie Delia out if things don''t improve Sir???

Wiz...  I too am unsure about Granty...  I think that he has done all that could of been expected of any guy that was coming in to replace Worthy so far (certainly with the small pot of money he has been given thus far to make the wholesale changes to the squad that are so desperatly needed).

I think that Granty talk''s a good talk and I also believe that he has his own ideas and hopefully is not a YES MAN.

I think whther Grant will suceed or fail is largely in the hands of those in the boardroom however.... 

I believe that Grant has a lot to learn tactically, but he certainly seems able to motivate the players and given a bit of cash to play with I see no reason why he could not build a squad that is capable of challenging for promotion.

I do not think that the board will give Grant enough money however... and that this will show up Granty''s shortcomings (ie - his tactical nous) more and more as time passes...  more and more pressure will be put on Grant by both fans and those in the boardroom and ultimately I think that Granty will probably be sacked and remembered amongst the vast majority of City fans as a failure...

Shortly after Grant is given his marching orders there will be changes in the boardroom...

I don''t think Grant will be our manager come the start of the 2008/09 season... and I also believe that by that time we will have started to see the current boardroom structure begin to fracture.

As I explained in a previous thread on this subject...  I see those in control of NCFC as every bit as bad as those sitting on the board at LUTON TOWN for the past year or two!!!