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DION DUBLIN FOR ENGLAND MANAGER!

Worthy and transfers?

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  I hope now that Worthy is manager of Leicester at least only till the end of the season at the moment, do you think if he got the job full time he could buy some of the rubbish players back off us he brought in when he was at norwich and take them to Leicester? Maybe Doherty Gallacher etc? Also can anyone give me an opinion on Andy Hughes? Is he any good really people give me mixed opinions? I thought Mickey Spiallane and Cave - Brown may have been given a chance by Grant too by now!

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Worthington did make some duff signings for us but he also made some good ones Ashton , Helveg , Safri , Mckenzie and I would hardly say Huckerby was a bad signing. Every manager makes bad signings some of Fergusons and Mouriniho''s have been shocking , Though things didn''t end well for worthy he was the best manager we had in a long time and I think people tend to forget that.

The Andy Hughes debate has been done a few times before and its a bit of a marmite debate you either love him or hate him IMO he does a reasonable job at right back and is hard working , This never stopped Daryl Sutch getting in the team for many years and he''s a bit of a Norwich legend in some circles !!!! 

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I think he made some very good signings like mckenzie was an absoulute bargain as was matty svensson, he bought ashton who scored goals for us then sold him a year later for a 4 million profit surely that 4 million profit is more than he waisted on bad signings, he also signed us Earnie, got bentley on loan, yes peter Thorne was a disastrous signing but we all have our bad days! ragardless to what some people think of Colin i think he isnt a bad player for the 250 k we paid, lets not forget Safri 500 k some real bargains

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[quote user="sdldjl05"]I think he made some very good signings like mckenzie was an absoulute bargain as was matty svensson, he bought ashton who scored goals for us then sold him a year later for a 4 million profit surely that 4 million profit is more than he waisted on bad signings, he also signed us Earnie, got bentley on loan, yes peter Thorne was a disastrous signing but we all have our bad days! ragardless to what some people think of Colin i think he isnt a bad player for the 250 k we paid, lets not forget Safri 500 k some real bargains[/quote]

Fair points but I think that two issues spring to mind:

Thorne was not a bad signing.  He is a drain on the club and possibly a waste of space.  He is certainly a player we should not have signed.  For him to be a bad signing however, these things would have to be apparent when he was signed and they were not.  There was no reason for Worthy to suspect he was signing a player with a good record and reputation who would become injury prone, apparently workshy and turn in poor performances when played.  I think you have to be fair and distinguish those signings that looked good at the time like Thorne and Jarrett and those that looked suspect at the time Hughes and MLJ rather than rely on hindsight.

Worthy can be criticised not so much for his signings but how he used them when he got them.  Yes Safri was a real bargain...is that why Worthy did not play him till it was too late?  Ditto Helveg.  Svennson and McKenzie were under used.  Jonson never played in his natural position as striker.  Docherty played as striker.  I could go on but it is history and boring history at that

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"Thorne was not a bad signing.  He is a drain on the club and possibly a waste of space.  He is certainly a player we should not have signed.  For him to be a bad signing however, these things would have to be apparent when he was signed and they were not.  There was no reason for Worthy to suspect he was signing a player with a good record and reputation who would become injury prone, apparently workshy and turn in poor performances when played. "

 

I am not sure, to dump a proven performer at this level and younger player in Matty Svennson for someone older on a higher wage packet seems a tad foolish to me.

 

Anyway all in the past now...

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[quote user="ricky knight"]Grant''s signings are the dogs are''nt they.[/quote]

Well given that you talk dogs Maybe you know....though I doubt it. 

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[quote user="burn down the ipswich"]i kind of agree with both of them points if you can lol. i think that worthy should have never let svennson go but he didnt kno that thorne was gonna be crap.[/quote]i think its a case of worthy not seeing eye to eye with svenson - he dropped him a couple of games into the start of the prem and put the doc up front - oh yeah, no wonder we didn''t get our first win for yonks.  then, with the winning line in sight, and destiny in our own hands, worthy leaves svenny on the bench against fulham

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James i think andy hughes is rubbish and we should sign kaka! Nah i agree give worthington all the crummy players and let grant bring in some real talent!

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Even Dion Dublin was a good signing although not many people thought so at the time. Without him City could be in real trouble.

- Shame to keep slagging off Worthington - I seem to remember he was the manger when Norwich were champions (and play off final)

 

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Svennson wanted to leave so worthy could not do anything about him leaving

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I know I shouldn''t respond to this but I always did so why stop now?

Worthy had no choice when Svennson decided to leave and go home to Sweden. He got an offer he couldn''t refuse and  I understand there was a release clause in his contract, but anyway, it would have been wrong to stand in his way.

There was so much stuff made up to try and get Worthington sacked that people are still believing it as fact.  As far as I am concerned  poor performances on the pitch and our dreadful away record were why Worthington had to go.

Another thing that seems to be forgotton is that Spillane was a year younger last season and yet he started both Easter fixtures under Worthington.

 

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[quote user="Dan Grant"]Svennson wanted to leave so worthy could not do anything about him leaving[/quote]

That is probably true but you then have to ask why Svennson wanted to leave.  Answer: Worthy would not extend his contract.  He got a better offer but it was aconscious decision by the Club to let that happen.   He made it clear that he had to go to protect his future because it was not safe here.

For all the excuses by the Worthy apologist crowd, Nigel is a man of clear favourites.  If your face fits then you get games and managerial support.  If it doesn''t fit then you will be frozen out.  It is capricious and illogical and did City no favours.  I think that it is Worthy''s biggest failing - a flaw of Shakesperean magnitude.

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[quote user="CambridgeCanary"]

[quote user="Dan Grant"]Svennson wanted to leave so worthy could not do anything about him leaving[/quote]

That is probably true but you then have to ask why Svennson wanted to leave.  Answer: Worthy would not extend his contract.  He got a better offer but it was aconscious decision by the Club to let that happen.   He made it clear that he had to go to protect his future because it was not safe here.

For all the excuses by the Worthy apologist crowd, Nigel is a man of clear favourites.  If your face fits then you get games and managerial support.  If it doesn''t fit then you will be frozen out.  It is capricious and illogical and did City no favours.  I think that it is Worthy''s biggest failing - a flaw of Shakesperean magnitude.

[/quote]

Hmm, not sure about your first paragraph; yes, he wanted a longer contract offer from us, but i still think he would have gone back to Sweden anyway.  Also, was it Worthy''s decision to only offer a one year extension to the contract?  It may well have been the Board who put the block on a longer deal.  The only people who know the real facts are the Board, Worthington and Svensson.

However, your second paragraph is the sound of a nail being hit squarely on the head.

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[quote user="CambridgeCanary"]

[quote user="Dan Grant"]Svennson wanted to leave so worthy could not do anything about him leaving[/quote]

That is probably true but you then have to ask why Svennson wanted to leave.  Answer: Worthy would not extend his contract.  He got a better offer but it was aconscious decision by the Club to let that happen.   He made it clear that he had to go to protect his future because it was not safe here.

For all the excuses by the Worthy apologist crowd, Nigel is a man of clear favourites.  If your face fits then you get games and managerial support.  If it doesn''t fit then you will be frozen out.  It is capricious and illogical and did City no favours.  I think that it is Worthy''s biggest failing - a flaw of Shakesperean magnitude.

[/quote]

This really is a poor example to use for "Worthy Bashing"! Check it out Cambridge, Svensson had a clause in his contract allowing him to leave for a top flight club in another country if one came in for him. The club that did were his home town club and he wanted to end his days there regardless of what he was offered in this country. The following season he won the Swedish title with Elfsborg!

At least Worthy signed players like Huckerby, Earnshaw, and Svennson, players capable of getting you off your seat and worth going to see. They were available to every other club as well, so he must have done something right getting them here. Worthy made mistakes but he played players on merit. If he only played his favourites it''s strange that they are now Grants favourites too.

 

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[quote user="August 64"]

[quote user="ricky knight"]Grant''s signings are the dogs are''nt they.[/quote]

Well given that you talk dogs Maybe you know....though I doubt it. 

[/quote]

if thats the best comeback you can muster, i would give up. tell me what Grant signing will set the world alight, the silence when i ask this question is deafening.

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[quote user="ricky knight"][quote user="August 64"]

[quote user="ricky knight"]Grant''s signings are the dogs are''nt they.[/quote]

Well given that you talk dogs Maybe you know....though I doubt it. 

[/quote]

if thats the best comeback you can muster, i would give up. tell me what Grant signing will set the world alight, the silence when i ask this question is deafening.

[/quote]

Hilarious that we were given the old "wait until after the transfer window" bilge......then after signing yet more donkeys for pennies.....nothing.  The bloke couldn''t even pick up a decent signing with a fat wad in his pocket,  let alone on the prudent shoe string budget the Carrow Road Poor House provides.

He hasn''t got "it"....the same as Rioch, Hamilton and Worthington didn''t have "it". That''s what DS and Co. like about such people...they are easily controlled wannabe''s who won''t cross the line or rise above Delia Smith in the "celebrity" stakes.

Grant is the Smike to Delia Smith''s Wackford Squeers.....just as Worthington was that same whipping boy before him.

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[quote user="ricky knight"][quote user="August 64"]

[quote user="ricky knight"]Grant''s signings are the dogs are''nt they.[/quote]

Well given that you talk dogs Maybe you know....though I doubt it. 

[/quote]

if thats the best comeback you can muster, i would give up. tell me what Grant signing will set the world alight, the silence when i ask this question is deafening.

[/quote]

oh its all gone quiet...............................

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="CambridgeCanary"]

[quote user="Dan Grant"]Svennson wanted to leave so worthy could not do anything about him leaving[/quote]

That is probably true but you then have to ask why Svennson wanted to leave.  Answer: Worthy would not extend his contract.  He got a better offer but it was aconscious decision by the Club to let that happen.   He made it clear that he had to go to protect his future because it was not safe here.

For all the excuses by the Worthy apologist crowd, Nigel is a man of clear favourites.  If your face fits then you get games and managerial support.  If it doesn''t fit then you will be frozen out.  It is capricious and illogical and did City no favours.  I think that it is Worthy''s biggest failing - a flaw of Shakesperean magnitude.

[/quote]

This really is a poor example to use for "Worthy Bashing"! Check it out Cambridge, Svensson had a clause in his contract allowing him to leave for a top flight club in another country if one came in for him. The club that did were his home town club and he wanted to end his days there regardless of what he was offered in this country. The following season he won the Swedish title with Elfsborg!

At least Worthy signed players like Huckerby, Earnshaw, and Svennson, players capable of getting you off your seat and worth going to see. They were available to every other club as well, so he must have done something right getting them here. Worthy made mistakes but he played players on merit. If he only played his favourites it''s strange that they are now Grants favourites too.

 

[/quote] Respect for your devotion to Worthy and for your generally well informed and well argued posts Nutty but I really can''t let you get away with rewriting history with such revisionist tosh.  I am not saying Worthy is the devil incarnate or that  he made no good purchases and I am sure that he is not solely responsible for global warming.  I do believe he is a mediocre manager with serious flaws and that what I have said above is correct.

Matty got a good move and good luck to him.  He went on the record at the time saying that he wanted to stay but the contract he required was not offered.  He took the better deal.  Who would not.  But to say he would have gone any way is simply factually wrong based on what the player himself said at the time.

Perhaps you are engaging in very clever irony in disputing that Worthy has favourites.  If so, I apologise for taking you literally.  If you mean it then you cannot be serious.  His last three years were marred by favouritism.

  • Playing Gary Holt in the Prem over Safri when Holt was ill and embarrassing everyone.
  • Playing an out of his depth Edworthy instead of one of Europe''s top defenders and then getting shot of Edworthy when they fell out.
  • Sticking with Flem again out of his depth in the Prem when the out of favour Shackell was the better choice and then dropping Doc not Flem when Shackell came in.
  • Much is made of the Prem run in and how we alsmost survived.  I remind you that that happened only after Worthy''s favourites were moved on.  We would have been done weeks before but for the enforced changes.
  • Ignoring McVeigh altogether
  • Falling out with and not playing Shackell at the start of last season.
  • Playing Andy Hughes when he was awful (yes Grant likes him to but at least there is some rationale for that and I''m not saying Grant is perfect either.
  • Playing - God I''m bored with this.  If you don''t agree fair enough but I challenge you to find three other people who agree with your argument

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[quote user="CambridgeCanary"]

[quote user="Dan Grant"]Svennson wanted to leave so worthy could not do anything about him leaving[/quote]

That is probably true but you then have to ask why Svennson wanted to leave.  Answer: Worthy would not extend his contract.  He got a better offer but it was aconscious decision by the Club to let that happen.   He made it clear that he had to go to protect his future because it was not safe here.

For all the excuses by the Worthy apologist crowd, Nigel is a man of clear favourites.  If your face fits then you get games and managerial support.  If it doesn''t fit then you will be frozen out.  It is capricious and illogical and did City no favours.  I think that it is Worthy''s biggest failing - a flaw of Shakesperean magnitude.

[/quote]

Had even a tiny percentage of the effort spent to keep the unhappy Damien Francis at the club been spent on keeping Svensson and Eddy here I imagine they would have stayed.  I also think as a lack of strike partners for Ashton/Erny and the right back slot were disaster areas last season we would have done much better with these too on board..

As people like to bring up the top 100 stats Eddy is Derby''s 2nd best player this season and has gained promotion from this division reguarly throughout his career.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

If he only played his favourites it''s strange that they are now Grants favourites too.

[/quote]

Whom do you mean??  Premiership centre half Doherty, the awful Hughes, inconsistent central midfielder Etuhu??

I guess thats why we are still doing poorly in this division then. A shame Worthy stuck with cloggers from the m,oment we got promoted - remember his comments before the Man Utd game.  Had he not ''given the decent players their chance''  we would have done a sunderland.  Just a shame it took him 30 matches before he fluked this eh....

Worthless Idiot.  Andy Hughes £550,000 as a relegated side... give me strength.

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CambridgeCanary

Just because I don''t agree with everything that is posted on here about Worthy does not mean I am devoted to him. If you look back you will see that I have always stated that performances on the pitch and our awful away record neccessitated a change of manager.

I stand by what I posted. The Matty Svensson example is a very poor one for "Worthy Bashing".

Svensson was offered a deal that this club couldn''t and shouldn''t have  matched. Yes it''s true that he said he asked the club about extending his contract but that was in May/June 2005 when his current contract didn''t run out until the following summer. Elfsborg offered him a three and a half year contract, should we have matched it?

Under the terms of his contract, Svensson was free to talk to any European top-flight outfit that offered a six-figure fee for him after our relegation from the Premiership. Does that not suggest to you that he didn''t want to play Championship football and that he knew where he wanted to finish is career?

Svensson said a lot of other things at the time too. He said he had no hard feelings and that the time he spent at Norwich under Worthington was the best of his nine years in this country. He talked a lot about security for his family and the fact that his son was about to start school which coincided nicely with a return to his homeland.

I also remember when Matty played for us he wasn''t the universally popular player who is remembered today in what do seem like posts re-writing history. I loved the guy though, he was a fans player, and like Earnie now, his goals were always special.

Could it be that Worthington didn''t so much play his own favourites as leave out the fans favourites? Team selection is a matter of opinion anyway. Take Dickson Etuhu this season as an example of what I mean. He is the most used player at the club yet the most abused player on these boards. To use your argument, I agree that I couldn''t find three other posters to agree with my view that he has kept his place in the side on merit. However I can name Worthington, Hunter and Grant who have continually picked him in front of the alternatives.

 

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Worthy did get hucks and Crouch in at the right time but who here thinks that if we handt of Lsot Neilsen and Zema abbey hadn''t of got injured Worthingtons hand wouldnt of been forced to getting Hucks and Crouch?

 things would of been very different.... no premiership, Worthington may have gone sooner, or still been in charge... how would things be at the club now?

jas :)

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

Worthy did get hucks and Crouch in at the right time but who here thinks that if we handt of Lsot Neilsen and Zema abbey hadn''t of got injured Worthingtons hand wouldnt of been forced to getting Hucks and Crouch?

 things would of been very different.... no premiership, Worthington may have gone sooner, or still been in charge... how would things be at the club now?

jas :)

[/quote]

And if Pele had been born in Costessey we might have been more successful in the 60''s jas [;)]

 

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both Lappin and Marshall (fair enough he didn''t have many games before he got injured) have come in and done good jobs.... Grant also took a gamble on Chris Martin which isn''t something i could have seen Worthington doing and he''s been a huge success

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[quote user="Lambo"]both Lappin and Marshall (fair enough he didn''t have many games before he got injured) have come in and done good jobs.... Grant also took a gamble on Chris Martin which isn''t something i could have seen Worthington doing and he''s been a huge success[/quote]

did martin not come to city under Worthy''s regime, i am sure with the same circumstance Worthy would have been backed into a corner like Grant, blimey its like Grant has made a great discovery, he was in the system for crying out loud. Lappin done a steady job, but is that sort of signing promotion material, i dont think so.

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[quote user="ricky knight"]

[quote user="Lambo"]both Lappin and Marshall (fair enough he didn''t have many games before he got injured) have come in and done good jobs.... Grant also took a gamble on Chris Martin which isn''t something i could have seen Worthington doing and he''s been a huge success[/quote]

did martin not come to city under Worthy''s regime, i am sure with the same circumstance Worthy would have been backed into a corner like Grant, blimey its like Grant has made a great discovery, he was in the system for crying out loud. Lappin done a steady job, but is that sort of signing promotion material, i dont think so.

[/quote]

 

Grant was willing to take a chance on him, something Worthy wouldn''t do with any youngsters last season even though we had nothing to play for, Grant gambled on a youngster when we were looking at a possible threat of relegation.

and bringing in players who are consistantly solid  rather than have a good game every 10 games but go missing in the other  9 ala Etuhu is a decent signing for me and he''s a player who brings in a threat from set peices which is somethign we haven''t had for a good few seasons now.

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[quote user="Lambo"][quote user="ricky knight"]

[quote user="Lambo"]both Lappin and Marshall (fair enough he didn''t have many games before he got injured) have come in and done good jobs.... Grant also took a gamble on Chris Martin which isn''t something i could have seen Worthington doing and he''s been a huge success[/quote]

did martin not come to city under Worthy''s regime, i am sure with the same circumstance Worthy would have been backed into a corner like Grant, blimey its like Grant has made a great discovery, he was in the system for crying out loud. Lappin done a steady job, but is that sort of signing promotion material, i dont think so.

[/quote]

 

Grant was willing to take a chance on him, something Worthy wouldn''t do with any youngsters last season even though we had nothing to play for, Grant gambled on a youngster when we were looking at a possible threat of relegation.

[/quote]

Then why did Worthy start Spillane in both Easter fixtures last season, not through neccessity but through choice. He was a year younger then too!

 

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