England

[7rew 0]

What with England being so bad that we could beat them. (1-0, we know how to score they don''t)How would you overhaul the team?As a short term measure I would go for (lack of fit strikers):                   RobinsonRichards Dawson Terry(c) A Cole                 Hargreaves  Lennon  Gerrard Lampard  Barry                    Rooney

Longer term I would be looking at using Rooney behind two stikers in the attacking midfield role, with Hargreaves as his partner.  Drop both Lampard, Ferdinand and Gerrard untill they grow up and start preforming (friendlies only) for England like they do for their clubs.The striking options other than Rooney are quite poor, but some of the youngsters are quite good.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

Play 4-4-2. They''re too dumb to understand anything else.

Subject them all to psychometric testing.

Drop Lampard, 25 shots at World Cup and 0 goals a bottler or not really interested - and Terry (ask Ledley King why)

Give Gerrard the captaincy.

Robinson

Richards   Ferdinand R.   King   Cole

Gerrard   Reo-Coker   Hargreaves   Bentley

Owen   Rooney

Subs (5):  Foster, Bridge, Lennon, Crouch, Defoe      

Defoe to play until Owen is fit (maybe we can get by Andorra without Michael Owen!)

Ask Berbatov to apply for citizenship!!!!![:-*]

I have seen David Bentley over the past 1/2 years for Blackburn and England Under-21s and really do believe that he is ready to step up. Anyone see him at Wembley against Italy on Saturday?

Maybe Hucks could do a job coming off the bench.

I also wish that some club will get Shaun Wright-Phillips out of Chelsea, set his head straight and get his self-confidence back up.

OTBC

(3 NCFC old boys - if we pick Hucks to come off the bench with Crouchy. Actually 4 in the squad as I would pick Green as the third keeper if I wasn''t too lazy today to figure out a full 23 man squad).[:^)]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[1st Wizard 0]

foster

richards   dawson   terry   cole

lennon   gerrard   hargreaves   j. cole

rooney   nugent

subs: robinson, ferdinand , lampard, barry, crouch

[Michael Starr 571]

You''ve got to play by form and NOT reputation. Two things that ruin this country''s international pedigree. (1) Our mentality of destroying our own stars, and (2) Our ability to ignore form players and go with the norm. This is why we will not win anything for a very long time to come. West Ham won the world cup in ''66... not Man Utd, or Arsenal, or Chelsea. Why are we soo afraid to play lower Premiership players, or even top end Championship? Bring pride back! Let''s stop knocking our players in the media!

Good shout on Foster and Nugent by No.4... i personally think we should select the England team based on form, therefore, lets set up a Actim style system... top performers play regardless of who they play for! That way, you''ll have 11 players on the pitch all high in morale and ready to fight.

Another mistake we make... we think "oh typical England", actually this problem is common in most countries... Germany fans were hammering their national side before the world cup, that quickly changed. Spain always have fans on their case, as do Italy... and poor poor Holland, don''t get me started on them...

[Sambool 0]

Owen sucks!!! Why pick him? He''s never been the same after all thse injuries. Rooney is okay sometimes and Crouch is rubbish but he scores goals. Upfront Bent (mabye Defoe) and Crouch (Ashton when fit) would work.

[Cobain18 0]

                                     foster

g.neville            r. ferdinand     j.terry             a.cole

a.lennon           s.gerrard         o.hargreaves   j.cole

                       w.rooney

                                   p.crouch (when fit)

subs:  d.bentley, a.johnson, s.campbell, f.lampard, p.robinson

For me this is our best team, the fact that no one can hide from is that our team (management and playing) are not good enough, they should be able to beat israel however in general terms they are just not good enough compared to TOP international teams to make any impact. 

[Cobain18 0]

oh and michael star the reason we don''t pick players on from regardless of who they play for is because if you take david nugent, he is playing at a much lower standard of football than the premier league players, the argement is ridiculous. He is untested a permiership level, if he actually was in the premier league his stats would change. leroy lita is clearly better than nugent anyway, i really dont know where this david nugent rubbish has come from, he''s not even the best striker in the championship, let alone anything else - someone needs to give mclaren a reality check

[7rew 0]

My long term solution would be:

                      Foster

Richards  Dawson  Terry  A.Cole

                  Hargreaves

Lennon              

              J. Cole

                    Rooney

             Bent        Ashton

2nd Choice team (in order, for position, if one person is named twice it means he moves position in a crisis):

GK:

Robinson

Carson

Green

CB

King - if he recovers properly

R. Ferdinand

Carragher

Richards

not wes brown - ever

LB

Barry

Bridge - if he leaves Chelsea

RB

G Neville

Young

?Hoyte?

DCM

Carrick

Parker

Barton

ACM

Gerrard

Lampard

Lennon

RW

Bentley

Gerrard

Walcott

LW

Lennon

Downing

??? Richardson ???

ST (keep the big man little man combo).

Crouch

Johnson

Defoe

Nugent

Rooney

[GJP 79]

England clearly don''t lack quality players, a large majority of our first choice players play for the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool. All players that play at the very top of the game. So really...just that bit of common sense says we don''t lack quality.

What we lack is a manager who has the ability to pick the best players in the best positions that allows the team to function well.

If we had a better manager England wouldn''t need to fear anyone because nobody rivals us for quality. I know people will bang on about Brazil or Argentina or something like that but nobody really has anything much better than us. People often say that we have a tendency to overrate the quality of our players but the same is true of people who think there''s half a dozen or a dozen international sides out there that seem to have a world class player in every position.

Oh and just for anybody who seems to think Peter Crouch is our best striking option/scores goals....look at his record. He can bang in hundreds against any really weak side but when it''s against the more established sides he generally produces very little. He''s good against the average and average against the good.

Michael Owen is still the best goalscorer this country has.

[Syteanric 1]

if all players were fit...

GK

Robinson, Murray, James

Def

King, Terry, G. Neville, Barry, Bridge, Samuel, Ashley cole, Carragher, Dawson

Mid

Hargreaves, Lennon, Gerrard, Harper, Sidwell, Bentley, Walcott, , Lampard

Strikers

Owen, Rooney, Ashton, Crouch, Darren Bent,

21 player squad.

starting formation would be

             Robinson,

Carragher, King, Terry, Cole.

          Hargreaves

Lennon,           Gerrard,

              Bentley

Owen, Rooney

Anyone who writes Owen off just yet is mad.. still only 27 and still with a realistic chance of becoming Englands all time record scorer, no one in the current squad will come anywehre near to his goal scoring acheivements for England for quite some time and imo he can still turn a game in the blink of an eye.

no place in my squad for the over rated Ferdinand, Defoe is not an international stiker, neither is Andy Johnson.

no place in my starting line up for Frank Lampard.. the man ponces about like he''s somethign special for England. I reckon if he was ever dropped he''d go home in a right strop to uncle Jose!

jas :)

[GJP 79]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

no place in my squad for the over rated Ferdinand,

[/quote]

Just wondering...how is Rio Ferdinand overrated?

He''s first choice central defender for pretty much the biggest club in the world that currently sits top of the (arguably) the worlds best/strongest league.

He is one of the best in the world in his position, that''s why he''s got to where he has.

[Cobain18 0]

gjp, no one rivals us for quality? look at the other teams in the world this kind of delusion is y everyone is always so dissapointed when england lose. the only thing i can think is that maybe u aren''t aware of som freign players.

just as an example look at brazil''s 1st team squad:   

1	Nelson Dida
2	Marcos Cafu
3	Ferreira Lucio
4	Silveira Juan
5	Fereira da Rosa Emerson
6	Roberto Carlos
7	Leite Adriano
8	Ricardo Kaka
9	Luiz Ronaldo
10	Gaucho Ronaldinho
11	Jose Ze Roberto
12	Rogerio Ceni
13	Joao Cicinho
14	Anderson Luisao
15	Cristiano Cris
16	Da Silva Gilberto
17	Gilberto Silva
18	Jose Gomes Edmilson
19	Juninho Pernambucano
20	Luis Ricardinho
21	Chaves Fred
22	Soares Julio Cesar
23	De Souza Robinho

the fact is that this team is just better than england''s whichever way you look at it, robinho, fred, ricardinho, gilberto, cicinho, ze roberto, ronaldinho, ronaldo, kaka, adriano, carlos, emerson, lucio, cafu and dida and juan would all stroll into our team, so i really can''t see why you think England have the quality.

[Sing up the river end 0]

I just can''t believe some of these comments from a personal point of view.Crouch is''nt an international player he scored a few goals a against week opposition,when he plays he drops back so far he makes our already conjested midfield even more blocked up.He stops there being room for Rooney to drop back and Gerrard/Lampard to push forward.Rooney can''t play as a lone forward he proved that in the world cup,to do so is like cutting one of his legs off.Ferdinand overated your having a laugh, he was superb at the world cup and never let''s you down on the big stage.Owen may not be the same player he once was pace wise but still knows where the net is and is still our best chance of a goal.So I spose I have opened myself up for critisism now heheRobinsonG.NevilleWoodgateFerdinandA.ColeLennonHargreavesGerrard (if only Scholes would play again)J.Cole (Hucks as reserve,ok slightly biased on that one)Rooney(a fit Ashton as reserve)OwenI don''t think our problems come from defence and would''nt mind Terry in for either centre back when injuries accur.

[Smudger 0]

The problem with England and the managers that the FA picks, is that they allow the Daily Mail, The Sun & The Star to pick a line up for them from a few major clubs that are either London based or one of the Big 2 or 3 up North (in their eyes).  We will never win anything until they employ a manager with the balls to look a little further afield and pick his own team.

It is nice to see people here mentioning some new names however, such as Matt Murray, Gareth Barry, David Bentley, Joey Barton, Kieran Richardson, Dave Nugent, Nigel Reo-Coker and Steve Sidwell (all of whom I feel would do a really good job for England....  Micah Richards must become first choice at right back in my opinion!!!

oh JAS, is that Steve Harper of Reading that you refer to in your midfield???

Other people that maybe McLaren could cast his eye over...   Joleen Lescott, Portsmouth''s Matty Taylor at left-back, Anton Ferdinand, Matty Upson or Jonathan Woodgate (recall for the first time in a few years)....

Kevin Nolan, Phil Jagielka, Darren Ambrose, Tom Huddlestone and Gabriel Agbonlahor

Deano (when fit again), Marlon King (when fit again), Ashley Young and Dave Kitson.

Starting line-up... something like (if everybody is fit)...

                                       Robinson

Richards            Terry                Lescott/Ferdinand(Rio or Anton) or Woodgate      Bridge or Matty Taylor

Gerrard              Sidwell            Jagielka            Lennon

                          Ashton            Rooney                 

 

Lampard & Ashley Cole have not worked hard enough for their places in the team imo and would be dropped.

[Shack Attack 0]

England''s problems with international football are far too complicated to list here IMO, but for what it''s worth here''s what I think the main problems are :

1) Too much hype - We''re constantly told the Premiership is the best league in the world, but is it? A look at the finalists since the formation of the Champions League in 1992 (as good a place to start as any) tells a different story. There have been 9 Italian finalists, 7 Spanish finalists, 4 German finalists but only 2 from England. It may be the most exciting league but I don''t think it''s "the best". The same hype then follows the England team around. Erikkson got us to three QF''s in a row, and in all honesty that''s about as good as it''s going to get. We''re not good enough to win major finals and the sooner the fans and the media accept this the sooner we can address the problems.

2) The style of The Premiership - The fans love the 100mph, thrill a minute style of our league but it just doesn''t translate into international football. The higher the tempo you play at, the more mistakes you make and the more likely you are to lose possesion. This is fine in The Premiership where if you lose possesion you''re likely to get it back the next minute because the opposition are playing the same way, but it doesn''t work in international football.

3) Too much emphasis on passion, pride and power and not enough on skill - Most succesful international sides have at least one playmaker. France had Zidane, Italy have Pirlo, Argentina have had Maradona and Riquelme, Brazil had Pele and now Kaka, Holland had Cruyff etc. etc. We''ve always been sceptical about such players, often branding them "a luxury". Joe Cole''s our best bet but when he''s fit we shunt him out to the left wing!

4) Poor coaching of our youngsters - Again too much emphasis on the qualities noted in my point above. Next time you see a match between two sets of kids in your local park stop by and listen to some of the rubbish being spouted by the coaches/parents. Kids as young as eight are discouraged from taking any risks, told that "if in doubt, kick it out", berated if they try and dribble with ball but end up losing it. The result, an endless stream of young players who are powerful, will run till they drop and tackle hard but don''t have an ounce of creativity. If you want an example then just compare pretty much any young English player to Cesc Fabregas, you''ll soon see the difference.

It''s not great is it, and until we sort those things out (and a few more, but I don''t want to go on forever) we''ll never see an England team lift a major trophy IMO. We should still qualify for the major tournaments of course with a few tweaks here and there but if we want to see us go further we need to change things from the bottom up, rather than just keep sacking the manager. Having said that McLaren is awful and I would never have appointed him in the first place.

As a stopgap and to hopefully ensure we qualify for the Euro''s I think we need to drop Lampard, thus moving Lennon to the right and Gerrard to the middle. There''s not many options on the left so I think we''re stuck with Downing for now, he''s not great but at least the side will have genuine width on both sides which should stretch the play and leave more room for Rooney to work in. I''d persevere with Johnson as Rooney''s partner for now and if we''re going to play Hargreaves as a defensive midfielder we have to have full backs who will get forward, I''d choose Richards and Cole. Terry and Ferdinand at CB and Robinson just about keeps his place in goal for now.

[shyster 0]

Too many of you are making their team selections based on players current form - if the national manager were to do that, the likes of West Ham''s Konchesky & Reo-Coker would''ve been fielded last year and realistically we all know that wouldn''t have worked.

Beckham shouldn''t have been dropped & Lampard & Gerrard CANNOT be fielded in the same side.

Provided fit the current first eleven ought to look something like this:

 

Robinson

Carragher

Terry

R. Ferdinand

A. Cole

Lennon

Beckham

Lampard/Gerrard

J. Cole

Rooney

Crouch

[Cobain18 0]

that may or may not be our best side but the fact is that it''s not good enuf, we don''t have the players. btw please do not suggest the idea of limiting foreign players in one team, his would''nt work it would just reduce the quality of the premier league. i think the foreign players in our league actually improve our players - look at david bentley, he had to work so hard at Arsenal to be considered, although he didnt quite make it into their team i believe he''s a better player than he would have been because he knew that his nationality gave him no divine right to be in a side, only hard work and improvement would do that

[Evil Monkey 52]

I was on a stag weekend in Turin (not for me, for a mate) and we managed to find a bar showing the game... we kinda wish we hadn''t bothered! Easily the most abject and disappointing performance since Macca took charge, but unfortunately it''s got a few contenders with the like of the Croatia or Macedonia games (Macedonia, my first England game, at Old Trafford... and £30 down the drain!).We may have had control of the game, mostly, but what good is that if the players keep trying to chip the ball into the air when simple short passing would do just as good a job? How many times did we see Fat Frankie and company playing long ball? Utter rubbish...For me, Lampard has to be dropped so that leaves my first choice XI, if all players are fit, as:                                   RobinsonG. Neville      Terry      Ferdinand/Woody      A. ColeLennon         Gerrard         Hargreaves           J. Cole                                        Rooney                         AshtonAshton is only provided he gets a chance to show his worth (ie, better than Crouch) and Robinson is still the best keeping option until Foster gets a chance to be blooded at a bigger club... not worried about the defence or the keeper, to be honest, for me the problem is similar to Norwich''s this season - a poor midfield with creativity by players being shunted out of position.  Gerrard is the kind of player who can grab a game by the scruff of the neck, and Saturday''s problem for me was that he was trying to do that by coming in-field to cover the non-existant Lampard and it ended up getting messy in there.

[Cluck 0]

England players at their club level are largely just supporting acts for the overseas "flair" players. On their own they are nothing in particular, but when linked with the likes of Ronaldo et al domestically...they look good.

Very few Britsh players make it overseas....they never have. While I think we have the most exciting type of football in the world on a weekly league basis...it transfers badly to International level. Couple that with the weak and ineffective manager type the FA continue to employ....and we won''t ever win anything.

[DONT REMEMBER YOUR TENURE AS ENGLAND MANAGER 0]

[quote user="Michael Starr"]

You''ve got to play by form and NOT reputation. Two things that ruin this country''s international pedigree. (1) Our mentality of destroying our own stars, and (2) Our ability to ignore form players and go with the norm. This is why we will not win anything for a very long time to come. West Ham won the world cup in ''66... not Man Utd, or Arsenal, or Chelsea. Why are we soo afraid to play lower Premiership players, or even top end Championship? Bring pride back! Let''s stop knocking our players in the media!

[/quote]

Totally spot on, couldn''t agree more

E.G Frank bloody Lampard.

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="Smudger"]

The problem with England and the managers that the FA picks, is that they allow the Daily Mail, The Sun & The Star to pick a line up for them from a few major clubs that are either London based or one of the Big 2 or 3 up North (in their eyes).  We will never win anything until they employ a manager with the balls to look a little further afield and pick his own team.

It is nice to see people here mentioning some new names however, such as Matt Murray, Gareth Barry, David Bentley, Joey Barton, Kieran Richardson, Dave Nugent, Nigel Reo-Coker and Steve Sidwell (all of whom I feel would do a really good job for England....  Micah Richards must become first choice at right back in my opinion!!!

oh JAS, is that Steve Harper of Reading that you refer to in your midfield???

Other people that maybe McLaren could cast his eye over...   Joleen Lescott, Portsmouth''s Matty Taylor at left-back, Anton Ferdinand, Matty Upson or Jonathan Woodgate (recall for the first time in a few years)....

Kevin Nolan, Phil Jagielka, Darren Ambrose, Tom Huddlestone and Gabriel Agbonlahor

Deano (when fit again), Marlon King (when fit again), Ashley Young and Dave Kitson.

[/quote]

You''re right of course about the failure of sucessive England managers to look beyond players from the bigger clubs, but some of the players you''ve mentioned are lucky to be playing in The Premiership let alone for England.

Anton Ferdinand? Darren Ambrose? Marlon King?!?! Even Graham Taylor wouldn''t have dared pick that lot!

Out of the players you mentioned only Bentley, Ashton, Huddlestone, Taylor and Woodgate should get anywhere near the England team IMHO. Although I would like to see Barton picked again purely to p*ss off Fat Frank!

One thing I would like to see is the England manager sending out scouts to lower league games to identify youngplayers who may be good enough for international football in the future. They could then be invited to train with the senior squad to assess how good they are and then put into the under 21''s. That is, of course, assuming that there are English players out there with the potential to shine at international level. If not then it would appear that my previous post could well be correct and that nothing Erikksson, McLaren, Venables or anybody else does will make the slightest bit of difference!

[ZLF 335]

For me its all about playing the best team in the formation that suits us best

For me some of the issues are

• a manager that wont drop his celebrity players,  causing mishaped formations due to player out of position and not performing to their best
• no strength in depth,   while our best 11 players are good the back up strikers and midfielders are not good enough at the highest level
• the media are ludicrously hysterical and stifle any real planning mid-long term y championing personal faves - eg the times pushing Foster ahead of the far superior Robinson this week.
• an ethos that rewards runners in midfield at the expense of flair,  starting at schoolboy level,  where the biggest and strongest are rewarded,   look how much on an impact Gazza had on us;  he peaked 17 years ago,  in that time how many Kakas have their been for Brazil, Italy, France etc etc etc.   Yet our media wants 2nd rate Lampards to replace the best of his kind (Bartons, Parkers, Nolans Carricks etc etc of this world solid but never creative enough)

defensively we are solid and have a good crop of people who can protect us,  we rarely conceed more than 1 goal.   It is midfield that we lack any creative spark or pace,  and just as worryingly have little evidence of it coming through for the future.  Up front we have no talent except for one who promised so much but looks like a boy lost with too much cash (Rooney) when did he last run at people like he did at Euro 2004???

For me the best team would be 

King ahead of Terry because he is more comfortable on the ball

Hargreaves as the enforcer

Gerrard because he is currently the best we have,  but the likes of bentley should be tried

 

Robinson

Richards   Rio   King   Cole

Lennon   Hargreaves  Gerrard  Cole

               Rooney

                          Owen

 

With injuries the options are second rate - Johnson up front,  Downing or Barry on the left and, better than second rate I agree,  Terry or carragher at the back

[Syteanric 1]

Rio Ferdinands Positioning is awful, he cant play the ball out of defence and he loses concentration

(our goals vs Man utd for example, especially Mckenzies)

so Rio looked good at the world cup against Paraguay and Trinidad and tobago, 2 nations who wont be pressing for major honours any time soon... against any wuality and he falls to peices.. Wait until the return game against Croatia or the games coming up vs russia..

an andorian Milkman wont be causing rio problems and rightly so.. but against the better nations he gets found out.. and its against these nations that u have to perform to get success

jas :)

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Shack Attack"][quote user="Smudger"]

The problem with England and the managers that the FA picks, is that they allow the Daily Mail, The Sun & The Star to pick a line up for them from a few major clubs that are either London based or one of the Big 2 or 3 up North (in their eyes).  We will never win anything until they employ a manager with the balls to look a little further afield and pick his own team.

It is nice to see people here mentioning some new names however, such as Matt Murray, Gareth Barry, David Bentley, Joey Barton, Kieran Richardson, Dave Nugent, Nigel Reo-Coker and Steve Sidwell (all of whom I feel would do a really good job for England....  Micah Richards must become first choice at right back in my opinion!!!

oh JAS, is that Steve Harper of Reading that you refer to in your midfield???

Other people that maybe McLaren could cast his eye over...   Joleen Lescott, Portsmouth''s Matty Taylor at left-back, Anton Ferdinand, Matty Upson or Jonathan Woodgate (recall for the first time in a few years)....

Kevin Nolan, Phil Jagielka, Darren Ambrose, Tom Huddlestone and Gabriel Agbonlahor

Deano (when fit again), Marlon King (when fit again), Ashley Young and Dave Kitson.

[/quote]

You''re right of course about the failure of sucessive England managers to look beyond players from the bigger clubs, but some of the players you''ve mentioned are lucky to be playing in The Premiership let alone for England.

Anton Ferdinand? Darren Ambrose? Marlon King?!?! Even Graham Taylor wouldn''t have dared pick that lot!

Out of the players you mentioned only Bentley, Ashton, Huddlestone, Taylor and Woodgate should get anywhere near the England team IMHO. Although I would like to see Barton picked again purely to p*ss off Fat Frank!

One thing I would like to see is the England manager sending out scouts to lower league games to identify youngplayers who may be good enough for international football in the future. They could then be invited to train with the senior squad to assess how good they are and then put into the under 21''s. That is, of course, assuming that there are English players out there with the potential to shine at international level. If not then it would appear that my previous post could well be correct and that nothing Erikksson, McLaren, Venables or anybody else does will make the slightest bit of difference!

[/quote]

So why in your humble opinion are Taylor, Bentley, Huddlestone and Barton any better equipped than Lescott, Jagielka, Sidwell and Ashley Young?

To me swap one set of 4 for the others and you would not see a drastic change in the capabilities of your side/squad.

[mbncfc 1]

Sadly, England chose a talking shop for manager rather than the required broom. I''m sure Steve McClaren produced an excellent powerpoint presentation when he was interviewed, but the fact was better coaches were ignored. Considering that most England fans felt they had been burned by the previous regime, to then appoint his assistance was a very stupid idea and showed a painful lack of awareness.

There is no competition for places at international level. The only reason a player will be dropped under McClaren is if there is enought media pressure. What kind of a manager does that make him? There are enough players around to have serious competition in the squad. However, most of these players are ignored - a lot of them have been mentioned in this thread already, and the U21 side is a further example.

Finally, I think we avoid playing to our strengths. If we played at the pace and ferocity of the Premiership at international level and could impose ourselves on games, we do have the quality to beat the majority of teams. I think genuine competition for places would at least encourage some urgency in those who make it onto the pitch.

To be honest though, it isn''t even in the same ball park to Norwich, so I don''t really care.

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="mbncfc"]

Sadly, England chose a talking shop for manager rather than the required broom. I''m sure Steve McClaren produced an excellent powerpoint presentation when he was interviewed, but the fact was better coaches were ignored. Considering that most England fans felt they had been burned by the previous regime, to then appoint his assistance was a very stupid idea and showed a painful lack of awareness.

There is no competition for places at international level. The only reason a player will be dropped under McClaren is if there is enought media pressure. What kind of a manager does that make him? There are enough players around to have serious competition in the squad. However, most of these players are ignored - a lot of them have been mentioned in this thread already, and the U21 side is a further example.

Finally, I think we avoid playing to our strengths. If we played at the pace and ferocity of the Premiership at international level and could impose ourselves on games, we do have the quality to beat the majority of teams. I think genuine competition for places would at least encourage some urgency in those who make it onto the pitch.

To be honest though, it isn''t even in the same ball park to Norwich, so I don''t really care.

[/quote]

A scintillating viewpoint mbdvdcdvhsncfc...spot on!        [Y]

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

an andorian Milkman wont be causing rio problems and rightly so.. but against the better nations he gets found out.. and its against these nations that u have to perform to get success

jas :)

[/quote]

It''s funny but my opinion of him is the complete opposite.  In major championships before I have always felt he plays much better against better teams and is more prone to mistakes when it gets too easy for him.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Cobain18"]

gjp, no one rivals us for quality? look at the other teams in the world this kind of delusion is y everyone is always so dissapointed when england lose. the only thing i can think is that maybe u aren''t aware of som freign players.

just as an example look at brazil''s 1st team squad:   

1	Nelson Dida
2	Marcos Cafu
3	Ferreira Lucio
4	Silveira Juan
5	Fereira da Rosa Emerson
6	Roberto Carlos
7	Leite Adriano
8	Ricardo Kaka
9	Luiz Ronaldo
10	Gaucho Ronaldinho
11	Jose Ze Roberto
12	Rogerio Ceni
13	Joao Cicinho
14	Anderson Luisao
15	Cristiano Cris
16	Da Silva Gilberto
17	Gilberto Silva
18	Jose Gomes Edmilson
19	Juninho Pernambucano
20	Luis Ricardinho
21	Chaves Fred
22	Soares Julio Cesar
23	De Souza Robinho

the fact is that this team is just better than england''s whichever way you look at it, robinho, fred, ricardinho, gilberto, cicinho, ze roberto, ronaldinho, ronaldo, kaka, adriano, carlos, emerson, lucio, cafu and dida and juan would all stroll into our team, so i really can''t see why you think England have the quality.

[/quote]

This is what I''m talking about - you''re just naming names. You don''t know these players games.

There''s only two world class players in that group - Ronaldinho and Riccy Kaka. Although obviously Cafu was outstanding in his prime and Ronaldo used to be awesome.

Let''s pick some names...Emerson...good footballer but nothing special - lacks a yard of pace. Cicinho....ultra athletic but can''t defend when used as a right-back or wing-back and his end product going forward is very much hit and miss. Adriano... once rumoured in the media to be worth £60mil but that''s a lot of money for a player who can only use 1 foot, has no pace and is prone to long spells without a goal.

Lucio...known to be caught out of position, however, on his day he can be immense. Ricardinho...has largely failed to succeed at any decent level, although he does use the ball well I think.

Robinho...fantastic dribbler of the ball but let down by being too lightweight, having inconsistent end product and being too selfish.

So no...it''s not really a ''fact'' that it''s better than England. You''re one of those typical people who go on about the superior art of football on the continent or in South America but really know very little about the players you praise up.

[Cobain18 0]

no no GJP, i do know these players, so i presume that either you don''t know these players OR as i suspected you have a highly inflated deluded idea of the England national team players skill. The English media make sure that every England fan does, everyone needs to get this idea out of their head that we are that good. Robinson is not world class, Rooney is only 20 and dissapoints more than produces, we don''t have a top class let alone world class partner for him. We do not have a world class left winger, Aaron Lennon has not proven himself to be world class, his dribbling is awesome but he lacks a final ball, gerrard is world class in CENTRAL midfield, the amount of goals Lampard scores at club level is world class but he is not an all round world class midfielder and does not score for England. I could go on but the fact is whatever anyone says, we are not individually good enuf!

Oh and btw Ronaldo has been top class a Milan, and yes I have seen him so I suggest you watch him and a few other players I mentioned GJP

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="GJP"][quote user="Cobain18"]

gjp, no one rivals us for quality? look at the other teams in the world this kind of delusion is y everyone is always so dissapointed when england lose. the only thing i can think is that maybe u aren''t aware of som freign players.

just as an example look at brazil''s 1st team squad:   

1	Nelson Dida
2	Marcos Cafu
3	Ferreira Lucio
4	Silveira Juan
5	Fereira da Rosa Emerson
6	Roberto Carlos
7	Leite Adriano
8	Ricardo Kaka
9	Luiz Ronaldo
10	Gaucho Ronaldinho
11	Jose Ze Roberto
12	Rogerio Ceni
13	Joao Cicinho
14	Anderson Luisao
15	Cristiano Cris
16	Da Silva Gilberto
17	Gilberto Silva
18	Jose Gomes Edmilson
19	Juninho Pernambucano
20	Luis Ricardinho
21	Chaves Fred
22	Soares Julio Cesar
23	De Souza Robinho

the fact is that this team is just better than england''s whichever way you look at it, robinho, fred, ricardinho, gilberto, cicinho, ze roberto, ronaldinho, ronaldo, kaka, adriano, carlos, emerson, lucio, cafu and dida and juan would all stroll into our team, so i really can''t see why you think England have the quality.

[/quote]

This is what I''m talking about - you''re just naming names. You don''t know these players games.

There''s only two world class players in that group - Ronaldinho and Riccy Kaka. Although obviously Cafu was outstanding in his prime and Ronaldo used to be awesome.

Let''s pick some names...Emerson...good footballer but nothing special - lacks a yard of pace. Cicinho....ultra athletic but can''t defend when used as a right-back or wing-back and his end product going forward is very much hit and miss. Adriano... once rumoured in the media to be worth £60mil but that''s a lot of money for a player who can only use 1 foot, has no pace and is prone to long spells without a goal.

Lucio...known to be caught out of position, however, on his day he can be immense. Ricardinho...has largely failed to succeed at any decent level, although he does use the ball well I think.

Robinho...fantastic dribbler of the ball but let down by being too lightweight, having inconsistent end product and being too selfish.

So no...it''s not really a ''fact'' that it''s better than England. You''re one of those typical people who go on about the superior art of football on the continent or in South America but really know very little about the players you praise up.

[/quote]

Fred is more than pretty good in my opinion!!!