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Pete Raven

Season ticket sales on the rise

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"On the rise" seems a bit of an over-statement - surely ''holding steady despite a crap season'' would be more accurate [;)]Basically, sales are up by 163 on the same point last year. When you''re talking about nearly 16,000 people that''s a fairly small percentage!

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There I was, expecting an increase of 2.000 or more after the Pink Un''s headlines, when in fact, its only 150 or so more than this time last year. That could be accounted  for by many many factors and could now settle down to very slow trickle!

Pathetic spining!

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Anyone would think you were upset at the news Wiz!Factually, the headline is absolutely correct - which is a lot more than can be said for a lot of the Archant headlines...

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[quote user="I. Shurmer"]Anyone would think you were upset at the news Wiz!


[/quote]

Yes, I am upset Shurmer, because in the board eyes, this just endorses their damn prudence policy. Until they start to see a reduction in supporter numbers, the shambles we are seeing now will just continue for many years to come.

I don''t know if I admire the fans loyalty or despise it, as the actions of the termily strupid!.

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[quote user="1st Wizard"]

There I was, expecting an increase of 2.000 or more after the Pink Un''s headlines, when in fact, its only 150 or so more than this time last year. That could be accounted  for by many many factors and could now settle down to very slow trickle!

Pathetic spining!

[/quote]

Whatever way you look at it we do not seem to be having the massive season ticket boycott that some posters were forecasting.

The "Delia out" brigade must be very disappointed with this news as there are obviously a lot of sheep about.

Baaaaaaaaah

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It says a lot that our fans are willing to keep coming despite the dross and wasters on the pitch.  True support has been shown by city fans, hopefully when wasters like eboohoo, thorne and co are shipped out of the club, and the manager finally learns how to pick a squad and formation we can begin to move in the right direction again.

Its a shame our inept board have been unable to match the fans hunger, passion and ambition for the club.

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[quote user="1st Wizard"]

There I was, expecting an increase of 2.000 or more after the Pink Un''s headlines,

[/quote]Why?The headline doesn''t say "massive rise in season ticket sales" nor does it say "huge increase in season ticket renewals"It says "season ticket sales on the rise" I''d say an increase of 200 from the same time last year constitutes a rise...no spin, no embelishment, a simple statement of fact.Which part of that are you having difficulty understanding?[quote user="1st Wizard"]Pathetic spining![/quote]Indeed. On your part.

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[quote user="1st Wizard"]

[quote user="I. Shurmer"]Anyone would think you were upset at the news Wiz!


[/quote]

Yes, I am upset Shurmer, because in the board eyes, this just endorses their damn prudence policy. Until they start to see a reduction in supporter numbers, the shambles we are seeing now will just continue for many years to come.

I don''t know if I admire the fans loyalty or despise it, as the actions of the termily strupid!.

[/quote]

This is strange news for sure. I too am upset Wiz but for different reasons to you. I honestly don''t see where anyone gains by having 20,000 season ticket holders. But now they let this situation happen it seems its going to take something extaordinary happening before the numbers fall again.

It does however make me wonder if the posters on this board are representative of the fan base as a whole. Afterall, for the last few months so many have posted that they will not renew or haven''t yet renewed. Maybe they don''t actually have season tickets or are telling little porkies??? Heaven forbid! [;)]

 

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[quote user="1st Wizard"]

[quote user="I. Shurmer"]Anyone would think you were upset at the news Wiz!

[/quote]

Yes, I am upset Shurmer, because in the board eyes, this just endorses their damn prudence policy. Until they start to see a reduction in supporter numbers, the shambles we are seeing now will just continue for many years to come.

I don''t know if I admire the fans loyalty or despise it, as the actions of the termily strupid!.

[/quote]Well Wiz, I am on the waiting list, and hopefully will get my first season ticket this year, even given the dire quality of football we''ve seen this season.I am not one of the "things aren''t going our way, so blame everyone and anyone employed by the club" mentality, and it seems a huge amount of fans aren''t either. I don''t disagree that we should be doing better than we are, but this is part and parcel of football these days. Unfortunately, due to the huge gulf in finances between the Premiership and the Championship increasing, I cannot see it getting better any time soon.I also don''t doubt the board have made mistakes, but even recently-established Prem clubs (like Charlton and Man City) are struggling this season. Fortunately, our board seem to look at the long-term survival of the football club rather than pander to the whims of a few loud-mouthed, armchair financial and managerial experts. It might not be a popular view, but I for one am glad.I am sure you would love to be able to point the finger of blame in those "strupid loyal fans", but of course, a simple-minded drama queen like yourself always has to have someone to despise, eh Wiz?

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If the sale of season tickets are capped (hence the waiting list) surely there can be no increase in the volume of season ticket?

Reading the article what has happened is either

  • the sales office is more efficient than last year,  having ''processed'' more applications (no mention of the comparative unprocessed applications year on year) or
  • fans have chosen to renew earlier.

For me the real refector of demand is either the comparative number of people on the waiting list or the change in people not renewing. 

What has happened is the club is getting its hands on cash earlier (assuming similar proportions to last year using deferred payment schemes) and savles value increasing following ticket increase.

It does demonstrate amazing fan loyalty that demand has remained high,  almost certainly exceeding internal targets (which prudently [;)] must have anticipated a drop off in sales),  during a period of stunning underacheivement on the pitch. 

Too maintain the status quo in these circumstances is pretty good.

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="1st Wizard"]

[quote user="I. Shurmer"]Anyone would think you were upset at the news Wiz!


[/quote]

Yes, I am upset Shurmer, because in the board eyes, this just endorses their damn prudence policy. Until they start to see a reduction in supporter numbers, the shambles we are seeing now will just continue for many years to come.

I don''t know if I admire the fans loyalty or despise it, as the actions of the termily strupid!.

[/quote]

This is strange news for sure. I too am upset Wiz but for different reasons to you. I honestly don''t see where anyone gains by having 20,000 season ticket holders. But now they let this situation happen it seems its going to take something extaordinary happening before the numbers fall again.

It does however make me wonder if the posters on this board are representative of the fan base as a whole. Afterall, for the last few months so many have posted that they will not renew or haven''t yet renewed. Maybe they don''t actually have season tickets or are telling little porkies??? Heaven forbid! [;)]

 

[/quote]

Nutty, the Club''s main business is football (I realise that that is a highly controversial statement amongst some posters but let us assume for a moment that it is correct) and the main way of raising income is bums on seats.  This is not just for the revenue from tickets but also to get people into the ground and buying programmes, merchandise and catering.  Season ticket sales are the best way of achieving numbers because once the expenditure has been made, people will use their seat or at least pass it on.  Occupancy is maximised if you already have their money.   It also makes financial planning predictable because you know you''ve sold the seats and can predict other income from models of previous behaviour.

From a football club''s point of view, the ideal would be to sell out the entire ground on season ticket.

Also, selling 20,000 season tickets creates an artificial demand.  Those without seasons will find casual tickets hard to come by and will want the security of a season ticket.  It is no surprise whatsoever that renewals are holding up.  Given ground occupancy levels even for midweek games, a non season ticket holder cannot guarantee to see the games of her choice.   The security of a season ticket adds to the saving for regular attenders and makes renewal attractive but football is an industry based on optimism.  I suspect that some renewers do so to guarantee their seats when the good times return.

The old days of turn up and you''ll get in are long gone.  It would make the Club much more prudent/vulnerable/restricted/etc if it had to wait until after the game and see how many had bought seats because financial planning and cashflow would be hugely problematic.

The whole financial structure of the business and the security of the Board depend on selling their product, in advance and having a prepaid captive audience and they seem to be doing that very well at the moment.

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The only reason this club does so well with crowd attendance and season ticket sales is because there is no other club within a reasonable travelling distance for the fans to go and watch - unlike London, The Midlands or the North West where there is an abundance of clubs to go and see we are very much in the backwater of the footballing world with our nearest rivals being 40 miles away hence we class this as a local derby.  I bet if we were situated anywhere else than out in the sticks then this club would struggle to get 24000 a  game as it cannot be for the excellent football that we are playing.  Maybe this is the reason that other clubs do not get the support we get because they have other competitors nearby which begs the reasoning that we only go because it is all we have got. 

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[quote user="1st Wizard"]

[quote user="I. Shurmer"]Anyone would think you were upset at the news Wiz!


[/quote]

Yes, I am upset Shurmer, because in the board eyes, this just endorses their damn prudence policy. Until they start to see a reduction in supporter numbers, the shambles we are seeing now will just continue for many years to come.

I don''t know if I admire the fans loyalty or despise it, as the actions of the termily strupid!.

[/quote]

"termily strupid"???? I do think if you are going to point such an accusatory finger Wizard, you really must try harder. Try reading the input from Cambridge Canary both in terms of logical content and good English as well.  

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[quote user="YankeeCanary"]"termily strupid"???? I do think if you are going to point such an accusatory finger Wizard, you really must try harder. Try reading the input from Cambridge Canary both in terms of logical content and good English as well.  [/quote]

Who gives a flying stuff if my English is good or bad..............its the message thats important. Ever since these message boards came into being, you have thrown insults like that at me, have I taken any notice of your posts?...................no!............unlike you, I base my messages on match going experiences.........not my grammer or lack of it. 

Thats the biggest drawback off this site, posters like you, skip the subject matter raised to score points, well done. Why don''t the moderators stop this................oh, I forgot...................they have other agenda''s as well!.

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dosn''t it boil down to the fact that there are still gents and ladies and hopefully most of all their ''kids'' who love to watch a footie match in the flesh, no matter the weather or the result,  rather than have to see it edited on the tele or hear it on the radio. or maybe just let them ''support'' the latest red or blue ''heroes''?

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[quote user="1st Wizard"]

Thats the biggest drawback off this site, posters like you, skip the subject matter raised to score points, well done.

[/quote]

Well, why not? I didn''t skip the subject matter, I rebuffed your frankly baseless rant and you chose to ignore it.

[quote user="1st Wizard"]

Why don''t the moderators stop this................oh, I forgot...................they have other agenda''s as well!.

[/quote]What like deleting posts of yours that turn sour and end up making you look a gimp?I wonder on whose request that happens? Hmmmm?Try to cut down on the ................................ people might start to think you''re clucking mad.

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[quote user="1st Wizard"]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]"termily strupid"???? I do think if you are going to point such an accusatory finger Wizard, you really must try harder. Try reading the input from Cambridge Canary both in terms of logical content and good English as well.  [/quote]

Who gives a flying stuff if my English is good or bad..............its the message thats important. Ever since these message boards came into being, you have thrown insults like that at me, have I taken any notice of your posts?...................no!............unlike you, I base my messages on match going experiences.........not my grammer or lack of it. 

Thats the biggest drawback off this site, posters like you, skip the subject matter raised to score points, well done. Why don''t the moderators stop this................oh, I forgot...................they have other agenda''s as well!.

[/quote]I see Wiz, so "termily strupid" (terminally stupid?!) is not an insult towards others then? I actually thought it was a witty play on words dear boy, clearly I overestimated you.Seriously, you throw insults out, and then bleat that somebody else constantly throws them at you. Even you can see the laughable hypocrisy there, surely? Personally, I find that the biggest turn off from this site is posters like yourself who constantly change their opinions depending on the direction of the wind today, yet see fit to write a vociferous, constant torrent of critical posts anyway.But that''s the beauty of the forum isn''t it? As long as the moderators approve, both you and I are free to express our opinions!

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[quote user="1st Wizard"]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]"termily strupid"???? I do think if you are going to point such an accusatory finger Wizard, you really must try harder. Try reading the input from Cambridge Canary both in terms of logical content and good English as well.  [/quote]

Who gives a flying stuff if my English is good or bad..............its the message thats important. Ever since these message boards came into being, you have thrown insults like that at me, have I taken any notice of your posts?...................no!............unlike you, I base my messages on match going experiences.........not my grammer or lack of it. 

Thats the biggest drawback off this site, posters like you, skip the subject matter raised to score points, well done. Why don''t the moderators stop this................oh, I forgot...................they have other agenda''s as well!.

[/quote]

My, my....you''re a little touchy today. It must be the company you''re keeping this week. You must try to calm down. I was only trying to provide a helpful suggestion in order that your message, which you seem to place a lot of importance on, has more impact. You''ve been grumpy again since your last failure on Canary Call, and I''m sure that was you David.

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[quote user="NavMan"]

The only reason this club does so well with crowd attendance and season ticket sales is because there is no other club within a reasonable travelling distance for the fans to go and watch - unlike London, The Midlands or the North West where there is an abundance of clubs to go and see we are very much in the backwater of the footballing world with our nearest rivals being 40 miles away hence we class this as a local derby.  I bet if we were situated anywhere else than out in the sticks then this club would struggle to get 24000 a  game as it cannot be for the excellent football that we are playing.  Maybe this is the reason that other clubs do not get the support we get because they have other competitors nearby which begs the reasoning that we only go because it is all we have got. 

[/quote]

Good point but with respect, Nav, I think it goes deeper than that.   The club is the only one in Norfolk so it has a monopoly for watching local football but that does not explain those that travel huge distances to watch their team or the failure of the multiplicity of other attractions available in modern society to tear us away from Carrow Road.   If you want to support Arsenal or do gardening then either is easily achievable but we choose not to.    Why???  

After the Derby match, I was stuck in traffic after an accident on the A14.  I met Canary fans going to Brighton, St Ives, the Midlands and the South West.  I suspect that they all had nearer clubs than Norwich.

Surely, it is also about local heritage.  At the risk of being a bit League of Gentleman, City is a Norfolk club for Norfolk people.  It is about whatever the culture, identity and heritage of Norfolk represents.  It may be out in the sticks but it is part of an identifable entity in a way that say Aston Villa or Fulham is not.  We don''t go because it is great football (unfortunately!!!!!!!!!) but because it is Norwich and we, our parents or even our grandparents were Norfolk people.   Norwich is the club we belong to and which - in a spiritual sense only- belongs to us.

And, in my personal and humble opinion, that is why we will sell 20,000 season tickets.   In a way, I am proud of that.

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[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

since your last failure on Canary Call, and I''m sure that was you David.

[/quote]

Yankee Canary:

As we''ve NEVER, EVER spoken, how do you make that incorrect assumption?.

Shurmer:

Again read my post!. I said I didn''t know whether to admire supporters for their loyality OR despise their stupidity.

I''m still undisided!.

And to both of you:

Laughing at my spelling and English, will not stop me posting on here. Its a form of physical bullying and abuse, and could drive would be posters away. I''ve never claimed to be gifted in that department,  and who''s next on your list.........blind people?.

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[quote user="salp"]

dosn''t it boil down to the fact that there are still gents and ladies and hopefully most of all their ''kids'' who love to watch a footie match in the flesh, no matter the weather or the result,  rather than have to see it edited on the tele or hear it on the radio. or maybe just let them ''support'' the latest red or blue ''heroes''?

[/quote]While the children are busy throwing mud at each other and going completely off track Salp, I think you are absolutely right. The football in this league may not be great but it is more competetive than ever, and those of us that live in Norfolk would have a long way to go if we wanted to watch anouther team. That''s why the likes of Blackburn and Bolton can''t fill their stadiums. I love footie, and as much as it pains me to see us struggle, I''m horribly addicted to the game. And I wouldn''t have it any other way.

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On the face of it good news, but of course we are not told whether the "renewals" figure includes people who have three or five year season ticketes. The big test will come when people come to the end of their season ticket period and the "product" (football apparently) is still sub-standard.

YC - Grateful if you could run your smell chucker over my post......

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I never attack fellow POSTERS Shurmer on a personal level, I leave that to others like Big A, Herb and yourself!.

If this spiteful board was without me for 6 months or so...................it''ll be crap and sterile. In my opinion the moderators are two faced sods anyway, they will happily allow posters to link old posts of mine to attack me with, but as soon as I use the same tactic, my post is refused and the thread is locked!.

You are made for each other!.

 

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[quote user="david_e_jervis@hotmail.com"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

since your last failure on Canary Call, and I''m sure that was you David.

[/quote]

Yankee Canary:

As we''ve NEVER, EVER spoken, how do you make that incorrect assumption?.

Upon reflection Wizard, it must have been the way you pronounced "Strupid" on the radio. 

 

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Dear Wiz,As King Juan said, this thread is getting very childish and off-topic (partly due to myself, for which I apologise), so this is my last word on the matter. Your post implies that anybody who renews/obtains a season ticket for next season is terminally stupid, regardless of whether you admire/despise their actions, to which I objected. Frankly, your constant stream of abuse towards the mods and basically, anyone who doesn''t agree with you, is tiresome - as is your continual bleating about abuse and bullying after anyone comes back at you.Maybe without your hugely-important self this board would become crap and sterile, but at least we could concentrate on serious NCFC discussion, eh?!Back to the matter on hand, the points about there being very few clubs around here, hence the higher proportion of season ticket holders is a good one. But that doesn''t explain why before our prem season, we certainly didn''t have anywhere near as much season tickets as we do now. I would guess that our promotion season has raised the profile of the club, and a lot of people who would not neccessarily have gone before this season have discovered they enjoy the Carrow Road experience. This is, of course, assuming that the club are being completely up-front regarding the number of ticket sales, and not manipulating/spinning any numbers! [;)]

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Cmon Wizard calm down you''ll make yourself ill.

Why is your email addy shown in your avatar?

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Can we get back to the subject? Comparing the number of season tickets at this stage is rather like an argument between Wiz and Yankee; pointless.

Almost all the supporters who have decided to renew their tickets are bound to do so before the first deadline and the price rises so its hardly a surprise that the numbers at this stage have remained static. Any waiverers or non-renewers are very likely to be in the group who did not renew untill the final deadline last season and we won''t know their decision until the second deadline in April.

 

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I agreee with what salp and Cambridge Canary say above. A lot of fans don''t choose their team based on the quality of football on display or the likelihood of it being a Premierhsip team anytime soon. I support Norwich City Football Club because my father did, as did his father. For all three of us, Norwich was the first club we saw playing live. If the ambition of the Board or the quality of football on display are the only criteria for supporting your chosen team then why do so many fans regularly turn up to watch teams in lower divisions? After all, plenty of teams below us play worse football than our current squad. I''m sure almost every football team in the country wants to play in the Premiership, but I''ll support my club (from the Board through the playing staff to the bog cleaner) to the best of my ability regardless of which league they are in. Why is it so important that Norwich play in the Premiership?  Why are certain fans "fools" if they pledge to continue supporting the club even if they drop into League 1 or further? I don''t pay my money to see an ambitious Board at work, nor do I pledge my allegiance to gain bragging rights over my mates. I pay my money because the ride is fun. I feel excited during games for as long as there is even the faintest possibility of a late winner or equaliser (for either team), I laugh when something amusing happens on the pitch or the crowd spontaneously chant a clever response, I get a sense of pride and satisfication out of witnessing a smart passage of play (no matter how infrequent) from our players. I love the sense of community and shared purpose amongst those around me for a couple of hours on a Saturday afternoon or a Tuesday evening. I don''t have expectations of my chosen club; only hopes.

Why should our club be any different to the vast majority of others in this country that play outside the top flight? Most fail to get there and stay there. The excitement comes when every so often all the right ingredients come together and the club takes off for a while. For every club the momentum is lost at some point and their position is taken by another team whose time has come.

For some, the ride clearly isn''t fun anymore and nobody should judge them harshly on that. Circumstances and priorities change and who are we to tell anybody how they should or shouldn''t support their club? I''m happy enough with my way (which suits me) but don''t for a moment think it''s the only way.

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[quote user="1stwizard"]

I never attack fellow POSTERS Shurmer on a personal level, I leave that to others like Big A, Herb and yourself!.

If this spiteful board was without me for 6 months or so...................it''ll be crap and sterile. In my opinion the moderators are two faced sods anyway, they will happily allow posters to link old posts of mine to attack me with, but as soon as I use the same tactic, my post is refused and the thread is locked!.

You are made for each other!.

 

[/quote]

Self praise is no recommendation

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