doncaster in EDP today

[nutty nigel 7,533]

[quote user="jjohnny"]So iyho are charlton,west ham,palace,reading,wigan,fulham,bolton,middlesboro bigger clubs than norwich.It crazes me that they have all managed to stay in the premiership or yo-yo between the 2 over the last 10 years when all we have had is 1 season and a play off final[/quote]

That wasn''t the point you made before. I was replying to your post about the days where you spent half your life watching Norwich beat the likes of Man utd,Liverpool,Arsenal etc.I would love my children to have a chance of seeing this too!

The Premier League has 20 teams. Man.U. Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool will carry on consolidating their position as the top four as more and more money is thrown at them. Everton, Tottenham, Newcastle and Aston Villa should manage to retain their premiership status unless they are grossly mis-managed. All the rest could have a season like Charlton and West Ham are having although as more money is thrown at them it''s always going to be more likely the promoted teams get relegated.

In my opinion we are in a group of  13 clubs whose fans feel like you do. Birmingham, Coventry, Crystal Palace, Derby, Ipswich, Leeds, Leicester, QPR, Southampton, Sunderland, WBA, Wolves and Nottingham Forest have all spent time in the Premiership since it was formed 1n 1992. There will be a lot of disappointed fans each year especially with the investment in clubs like Wigan and Reading making it even harder for any of these to get back.

For those that do make it back to the Premiership it won''t be like it was in the eighties and early nineties. The big four will still be a million miles away. The league will be predictable and boring with clubs hoping to get enough points to avoid relegation but never enough to challenge at the other end. In my opinion after the initial adventure gates would drop except for when the big clubs come to town and we hope for an upset as though it was a cup tie.

I am as ambitious as any other fan and I always want my team to win. However and ever increasing part of me would be happy to be really competetive in this league rather than be a club like Fulham continually just getting enough points to survive.

Would be great if we got promotion at the same time as football in the top tier became fair again.

 

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Safri15"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="EadiesRight Foot"]

Spot on post LGT. I know that we arent the most affluent (or should that be effluent?) team in the division, but we have been let down badly with the boards refusal to back the manager financially.

This is what cost us our place in the Premier League, and has made us hugely disappointing in the Championship. At a time when you mention clubs like Derby, Sunderland, Birmingham releasing funds for players, we are getting loans, freebees, and £75k worth of players. Doncaster should do away with the "prudence with ambition" nonsense, as it has us fighting relegation, paying overpaid wages to injury prone / lazy / inept players, and unhappy supporters. But as long as we are buying season tickets in large numbers, hey - who cares. They are probably cacking themselves with laughter.  

A more suitable phrase might be "speculate to accumulate". After all, not many clubs are able to go forward without some investment.

 

[/quote]

Bang on ERF!!!

Best post I have seen in a long while....  Doncaster & Co will be cacking themselves with laughter right now... rest assured about that.

There was a thread posted about Birmingham supporters on here the other day...  The party line being how poor supporters they are blah blah blah.  Are they really as bad as people have painted them?  They are not happy about what has been happening at their club the past couple of years, they reckon that the football that they are seeing is poor and they have wanted rid of Bruce as manager for as long as we have wanted rid of Worthy (yet Brum are still stuck with Bruce).

In my opinion the Birmingham supporters have shown some backbone... they have called for the sacking of Bruce, the Birmingham board haven''t listened, they are not happy with the football that they are seeing and they have voted with their feet.

What is so wrong in that???  If Birmingham wanted their fans onside and to be selling out St Andrews week in week out then perhaps they should start listening to their supporters instead of digging their heels in over Bruce remaining there as manager???

[/quote]

Hello Smudger you are a tosser!!!

Sorry I thought that I would bump this post back up seeing as none of you have seemed willing to take the bait on my alternative view of the Birmingham supporters [:-*]

[/quote]

For once I agree with something you''ve said Smudger.

Anyway, I agree with all that has been said pretty much. And as I''ve mentioned before, the only way to get out of this division is to spend some money. The only way to stay up, is to spend some money, and that is why we will never win the title again, or in my opinion get close to being promoted other than through the play-offs without Delia and Doncaster sticking their hands in their pockets and taking a bloody risk for once!!

So far Granty''s made some good signings with very little money, he is also attempting, as it seems to flush out the dead wood. If this board wants to be taken seriously and wants the fans to know that they have the ambition to get out of this league to go on to bigger and better things, they must match it with the money.

[/quote]

Nice to see that some of what has been said apeas to be sinking in with you Saf... there is hope for you yet!!!

[Mello Yello 2,291]

[quote user="megson"]

lol  

Yes cause having a nice big car park and an old flour mill would pull millions of income per season into the club wouldn''t it?

Assests are there to be cashed in, and by doing so the club found the funds to turn us around and get to the prem.

They got it wrong with NW but they did, at least, back him with cash.

[/quote]

Is "megson" an anagram or pseudonym of "Doncaster" or "Cullen?"......maybe "Munby" or "Skipper"......perhaps "Delia" or "Micky Wynn?"..........or "Ferrari?"

 

[Mello Yello 2,291]

[quote user="10 Bryceland"]With reference to the original post, just what do the board have to do to match the loyalty of the fans and attract the funds necessary?  By renewing my season ticket I feel I am contributing my own modest share to the club.  The clubs'' directors are only the trustees of the club and can only continue in their posts with our support.  Despite all the rhetoric there has been no credible alternative to the current regime put forward and nothing about the alleged mis-management of the club finances that stands up to close scruitiny.  We all have our own opinons about the merits of the club football management and playing staff, and long may it be so, but I would like to see verifiable facts about the financial mis-management before vilifying the current board incumbents.  And as for the constant sniping at Neil Doncaster, all I can say is that his statements seem reasonable to me and are in line with the current state of football today.  There is nothing earth shattering in his latest missive, anyone with a modicum of intelligence can see it is a reasonable point of view.  There are alternative viewpoints and policies, many of which are aired on here with great clarity and passion, but at least respect and credit other peoples opinions as you would hope they do your own.[/quote]

I''ll have a small amount of modicum, if there''s any going free?

It''s not quite earth shattering....but, very, very, oh so samey and Veja Du...or somethin'' like that?[|-)]

 

 

[megson 0]

rofl

Can''t wait to hear the rumours at carra in a couple of weeks time about how a board member was posting on the pinkun site.

Oh no, wait,  you''d have to go to start that rumour wouldn''t you?

[Canary Ben 0]

This is one of the most accurate posts ive seen on this site!!!  Most of the people that wanted worthy out now realise pehaps our problems wernt all caused by the manager and now want the board out! Childish and Radiculous. Make your minds up, or we might end up with a board like leeds and be on the border of bankrupcy! WE HAVE A GREAT BOARD HERE AND WE SHOULD NOT CHANGE IT!

OTBC!

[jjohnny 0]

You can''t compere norwich and leeds.Leeds was a one off,even an idiot could see what was going to happen there.I just can''t understand why so many of you are happy being a mid-bottom championship team when with the right amount of investment we would hold our own in the top league.You only have to look at reading how much money have they spent?

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="lucky green trainers"]
agree, post is fair minded and reasonable. 

my opinion of neil doncaster is that he has the decency to make himself available to the supporters. however, his post in the EDP was ''steady as she goes,'' as if more of the same will bring us the success we want.  he could be right, wolves are proving this year that life without parachute payments needn''t be a disaster.  also, under the present boards stewardship, i am prepared to recognise we''re in a better position than 3 years ago -

• overall, a better quality first 11.
  

• 25,000 seater stadium, and prem quality playing surface.

• manager who i believe can get the best out of quality players.
  

• record season ticket numbers and capacity crowds.
  

however, because the club is run on the basis to break-even, if we don''t gain promotion within 2-4 years, then without extra investment, or players sales, then the quality of the squad must surely suffer and weaken, and then we would be in decline.  maybe the process of decline has already started.   the last 2 years have been difficult for NCFC to say the least. 

recently, the feel-good factor has returned to carra rd and hopfeully, a good run of form will help everyone look forward to next season. 

have the fans who invested in the share issues that helped springboard our promotion got value for their money???


[/quote]

LGT at present the club is NOT being run on the basis to break-even.  I only wish it was.  How many more myths are people willing to swallow in their craving for the feel-good factor?  As my old granny used to say, "some people would eat sh*t if it was sugared". 

In the past two seasons we have been much more profitable than most of our contemporaries.  Check the Annual Report if you doubt me.  In our relegation season we made a net profit of over £7 million, compared with Birmingham''s profit of £2.6 million in their relegation season.  Last season we made a net profit of £2.5 million, and I have yet to find a Championship club which exceeded it.  Another £3 million or so was given away to Gordon Brown in profits tax. 

Where has it gone?  We''re a BIG club in terms of profitability, but we''re floating on a sea of piss-warm mediocrity in footballing terms.  Like you and many others LGT, the board appear to think that bums on seats is de facto a sign of success.  The fact that we are where we are while clubs with much smaller gates are looking down on us from a great height is a cause for shame, not self-congratulation.

 

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="7rew"]For someone who has no desire to dissasociate yourself from the term, you were certainly hiding your light under an amazingly large bushell. Your implication was that it was a term in common usage rather that one used, almost exclusively, by yourself.

I don''t know who is scared of the future, not me.  I don''t fear for the future with any particular person in charge at Carrow Road. (Well except when Graeme Souness was being touted as chairman and manager-for-life.)  It is you that fears for the future under our so-called (by you) mother figure. Is this Maternaphobia? What did your mother do to you to cause this irrational hatred?

You fail to notice that you are the only person that cares massively if Delia is majority shareholder or not. If she sold up I would welcome the new investment and hope we weren''t going to do a Millwall. But I wouldn''t lament her leaveing unless we did "do a Millwall" in which case, I suspect, so would you.

You and the other DISCos (are there enough apart from cluck/smudger to justify the plural?) can believe that the rest of us will get tired and go away but, Norwich City remains as much my club as much as anyone elses and rather than hand the asylum over to the lunatics, I will remain here to ensure the sane point of view is heard.

By the way Slides are fun, especially Helter-Skelters - where indeed what goes around comes around
[/quote]

Millwall do not,never have,and never will attract regular 20,000 crowds as we do. The fact that you can seriously make such an idiotic comparison undermines your other other arguments IMO.

[lucky green trainers 0]

[quote user="mystic megson"][quote user="lucky green trainers"]agree, post is fair minded and reasonable.  my opinion of neil doncaster is that he has the decency to make himself available to the supporters. however, his post in the EDP was ''steady as she goes,'' as if more of the same will bring us the success we want.  he could be right, wolves are proving this year that life without parachute payments needn''t be a disaster.  also, under the present boards stewardship, i am prepared to recognise we''re in a better position than 3 years ago -

• overall, a better quality first 11.

• 25,000 seater stadium, and prem quality playing surface.

• manager who i believe can get the best out of quality players.

• record season ticket numbers and capacity crowds.

however, because the club is run on the basis to break-even, if we don''t gain promotion within 2-4 years, then without extra investment, or players sales, then the quality of the squad must surely suffer and weaken, and then we would be in decline.  maybe the process of decline has already started.   the last 2 years have been difficult for NCFC to say the least.  recently, the feel-good factor has returned to carra rd and hopfeully, a good run of form will help everyone look forward to next season.  have the fans who invested in the share issues that helped springboard our promotion got value for their money???

[/quote]

LGT at present the club is NOT being run on the basis to break-even.  I only wish it was.  How many more myths are people willing to swallow in their craving for the feel-good factor?  As my old granny used to say, "some people would eat sh*t if it was sugared". 

In the past two seasons we have been much more profitable than most of our contemporaries.  Check the Annual Report if you doubt me.  In our relegation season we made a net profit of over £7 million, compared with Birmingham''s profit of £2.6 million in their relegation season.  Last season we made a net profit of £2.5 million, and I have yet to find a Championship club which exceeded it.  Another £3 million or so was given away to Gordon Brown in profits tax. 

Where has it gone?  We''re a BIG club in terms of profitability, but we''re floating on a sea of piss-warm mediocrity in footballing terms.  Like you and many others LGT, the board appear to think that bums on seats is de facto a sign of success.  The fact that we are where we are while clubs with much smaller gates are looking down on us from a great height is a cause for shame, not self-congratulation.

 

[/quote]sure mystic - ok, city have posted a profit - you''ve picked up on my break-even profit.  doncasters column merely confirmed to me, the board are continuing with their present policy - of building from a position of profit and investment - just as chase did.  they''ve chosen to put money into a pitch, the jarrold stand and catering to maximise revenues (which presumerably they hope will add to the managers budget).  result - full houses of an increased capacity and without eyeing the accounts, probably record income from non-football sources.  Pompey went up and spent nowt on their ground - they are still in the prem.  can the club''s prudent strategy bring us success?  obviously, they believe they can.  what irked me about doncasters column was his statement of the usual reasons why the club couldn''t be more financially adventurous - hence my blah,blah,blah.  i''m certain his heart is in the right place, and he works his socks off for the city cause, but my feeling is the longer we stay out of the prem this time, the harder it will get.  the prem revenues are increasing once again from this season onwards, and relegated clubs will have far superior financial clout than before.  imo, we need extra money to compete -  if additional board members can bring in some funds then why not??   

[canary cherub 1]

I agree that we do need to spend a bit more, and not the multimillions that the board would like us to think.  We could have done so in the past two seasons and deprived the Chancellor of £3 million profits tax at the same time, but we didn''t.  

It could still be done if the will is there, but I honestly don''t think it is.  We hear so much about "We can''t compete" with this that or the other club, that I think the truth is they don''t want to compete.  But the essence of football is competition, and I can''t actively support a club that appears to be trying by all means possible to take competition out of the equation.  The "alternative revenue streams" that we hear so much about could be used to make the team more competitive.  They could equally be used to provide income that does not depend on whether the team is competitive or not. 

Judging by many recent posts on here, the board have done such a good job lowering expectations that they''re unlikely to bust a gut to raise them again. 

 

[AP16 0]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Safri15"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="EadiesRight Foot"]

Spot on post LGT. I know that we arent the most affluent (or should that be effluent?) team in the division, but we have been let down badly with the boards refusal to back the manager financially.

This is what cost us our place in the Premier League, and has made us hugely disappointing in the Championship. At a time when you mention clubs like Derby, Sunderland, Birmingham releasing funds for players, we are getting loans, freebees, and £75k worth of players. Doncaster should do away with the "prudence with ambition" nonsense, as it has us fighting relegation, paying overpaid wages to injury prone / lazy / inept players, and unhappy supporters. But as long as we are buying season tickets in large numbers, hey - who cares. They are probably cacking themselves with laughter.  

A more suitable phrase might be "speculate to accumulate". After all, not many clubs are able to go forward without some investment.

 

[/quote]

Bang on ERF!!!

Best post I have seen in a long while....  Doncaster & Co will be cacking themselves with laughter right now... rest assured about that.

There was a thread posted about Birmingham supporters on here the other day...  The party line being how poor supporters they are blah blah blah.  Are they really as bad as people have painted them?  They are not happy about what has been happening at their club the past couple of years, they reckon that the football that they are seeing is poor and they have wanted rid of Bruce as manager for as long as we have wanted rid of Worthy (yet Brum are still stuck with Bruce).

In my opinion the Birmingham supporters have shown some backbone... they have called for the sacking of Bruce, the Birmingham board haven''t listened, they are not happy with the football that they are seeing and they have voted with their feet.

What is so wrong in that???  If Birmingham wanted their fans onside and to be selling out St Andrews week in week out then perhaps they should start listening to their supporters instead of digging their heels in over Bruce remaining there as manager???

[/quote]

Hello Smudger you are a tosser!!!

Sorry I thought that I would bump this post back up seeing as none of you have seemed willing to take the bait on my alternative view of the Birmingham supporters [:-*]

[/quote]For once I agree with something you''ve said Smudger. Anyway, I agree with all that has been said pretty much. And as I''ve mentioned before, the only way to get out of this division is to spend some money. The only way to stay up, is to spend some money, and that is why we will never win the title again, or in my opinion get close to being promoted other than through the play-offs without Delia and Doncaster sticking their hands in their pockets and taking a bloody risk for once!!So far Granty''s made some good signings with very little money, he is also attempting, as it seems to flush out the dead wood. If this board wants to be taken seriously and wants the fans to know that they have the ambition to get out of this league to go on to bigger and better things, they must match it with the money. [/quote]

Nice to see that some of what has been said apeas to be sinking in with you Saf... there is hope for you yet!!!

[/quote]I''ve always thought that Smudger, your bleating hasn''t changed my opinion. The thing is though is that they wont take the risk to wade into a massive loan to buy players just in case it goes wrong, a la Leeds - and it''s almost a catch 22 situation. You either sit here waiting for a lucky break into the play offs on not much wonga, or you throw all caution to the wind with the risk of losing lots of money, and potentially the existence of the football club - but on the flipside of that coin, we could get promoted. I can see why its a risk that they are yet to take as to be honest, who wants to be in League 1 next year....10 years down the line...and who would want to see us take that risk which could potentially lose our club? No-one I hope....but in saying that, who still wants to be in The Championship in 10 years time....

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="Safri15"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Safri15"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="EadiesRight Foot"]

Spot on post LGT. I know that we arent the most affluent (or should that be effluent?) team in the division, but we have been let down badly with the boards refusal to back the manager financially.

This is what cost us our place in the Premier League, and has made us hugely disappointing in the Championship. At a time when you mention clubs like Derby, Sunderland, Birmingham releasing funds for players, we are getting loans, freebees, and £75k worth of players. Doncaster should do away with the "prudence with ambition" nonsense, as it has us fighting relegation, paying overpaid wages to injury prone / lazy / inept players, and unhappy supporters. But as long as we are buying season tickets in large numbers, hey - who cares. They are probably cacking themselves with laughter.  

A more suitable phrase might be "speculate to accumulate". After all, not many clubs are able to go forward without some investment.

 

[/quote]

Bang on ERF!!!

Best post I have seen in a long while....  Doncaster & Co will be cacking themselves with laughter right now... rest assured about that.

There was a thread posted about Birmingham supporters on here the other day...  The party line being how poor supporters they are blah blah blah.  Are they really as bad as people have painted them?  They are not happy about what has been happening at their club the past couple of years, they reckon that the football that they are seeing is poor and they have wanted rid of Bruce as manager for as long as we have wanted rid of Worthy (yet Brum are still stuck with Bruce).

In my opinion the Birmingham supporters have shown some backbone... they have called for the sacking of Bruce, the Birmingham board haven''t listened, they are not happy with the football that they are seeing and they have voted with their feet.

What is so wrong in that???  If Birmingham wanted their fans onside and to be selling out St Andrews week in week out then perhaps they should start listening to their supporters instead of digging their heels in over Bruce remaining there as manager???

[/quote]

Hello Smudger you are a tosser!!!

Sorry I thought that I would bump this post back up seeing as none of you have seemed willing to take the bait on my alternative view of the Birmingham supporters [:-*]

[/quote]

For once I agree with something you''ve said Smudger.

Anyway, I agree with all that has been said pretty much. And as I''ve mentioned before, the only way to get out of this division is to spend some money. The only way to stay up, is to spend some money, and that is why we will never win the title again, or in my opinion get close to being promoted other than through the play-offs without Delia and Doncaster sticking their hands in their pockets and taking a bloody risk for once!!

So far Granty''s made some good signings with very little money, he is also attempting, as it seems to flush out the dead wood. If this board wants to be taken seriously and wants the fans to know that they have the ambition to get out of this league to go on to bigger and better things, they must match it with the money.

[/quote]

Nice to see that some of what has been said apeas to be sinking in with you Saf... there is hope for you yet!!!

[/quote]

I''ve always thought that Smudger, your bleating hasn''t changed my opinion. The thing is though is that they wont take the risk to wade into a massive loan to buy players just in case it goes wrong, a la Leeds - and it''s almost a catch 22 situation. You either sit here waiting for a lucky break into the play offs on not much wonga, or you throw all caution to the wind with the risk of losing lots of money, and potentially the existence of the football club - but on the flipside of that coin, we could get promoted.

I can see why its a risk that they are yet to take as to be honest, who wants to be in League 1 next year....10 years down the line...and who would want to see us take that risk which could potentially lose our club? No-one I hope....but in saying that, who still wants to be in The Championship in 10 years time....
[/quote]

Here we go again...risk equals Leeds...foreign investor equals Hearts.

No wonder the club is going nowhere with a mentality more suited to a sweet shop.

[nutty nigel 7,533]

[quote user="jjohnny"]You can''t compere norwich and leeds.Leeds was a one off,even an idiot could see what was going to happen there.I just can''t understand why so many of you are happy being a mid-bottom championship team when with the right amount of investment we would hold our own in the top league.You only have to look at reading how much money have they spent?[/quote]

Don''t confuse what I say to mean I am happy being a mid to bottom championship side.  I don''t think any of us on here are happy with that and my post certainly shouldn''t give that impression. Investment, if it was to come, would not come with any guarantees of success.Many of the clubs in my list already have investment and the three relegated sides will have more parachute money than ever before. The way things are going it could be argued that major investment could be needed just to finish in the top half of this league.

But as more clubs are invested in then more will fail to bring sucess for that investment. If that becomes the case will the investers stay loyal?

 

[BBFF 0]

[quote user="mystic megson"][quote user="mbncfc"]

[quote user="megson"]

Anyhoo if you all prefer to moan and b***h rather than look at the progress being made under Grant then fine.

[/quote]

...ssssshhhhhhhhhuuuuuuuusssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh... [:#][:$] You''ll let out the secret...

Rule 1: football matches are a mere side issue to the battle raging on the streets of the city that is the Pink''un forum... [:)]

[/quote]

It''s not progress under Grant that is the issue.  He''ll take this club as far as the board will let him.

Unless the board change their outlook, WE ARE GOING NOWHERE! 

[/quote]Very true. Only with FOOTBALL will the NCFC be what we know it is, a great FOOTBALL club. Start on the pitch and all the rest will come later. Lets not hear the "Poor little Norwich" stuff from Carrow Rd anymore.

FOOTBALL MUST COME FIRST

[7rew 0]

Mr Carrow.

We could very well do a Millwall if we change the board. 

Doing a Millwall is:

New man comes in and promises to be top half of the premiership in 5 years.

New man has arguement with manager(1), who was successful (FA cup final)

Manager leaves

New Manager(2) apointted

New Manager leaves before start of season after dissagreement with board

New Manager(3) apointted

New Managing director appointed after fan pressure, promises same as first guy.

4 More managers are used up to December

The good players sense a sinking ship and leave

Caretaker Manager(8) in January and Feburary is relatively sucessful (compared to last 6 anyway)

Caretaker Manager(8) decides he doesn''t want the job

New Manager(9) apointed in March

Side Relegated

Side Mid table in League 1 not looking like getting back anytime soon.

Attendences have nothing to do with it, nor does the side you start

with. It could happen to virtually any club, at any time and Millwall

started from a similar league position as we are in now. 

NOTE: I am not saying that it will happen with a change of board but

that it is a possibility (it has happened once) that it would be good

to avoid. I lived with a Millwall fan at the time it was NOT a good

year for him.

I suppose we might *just* avoid the relegation part, but we would be at

best in the same situation as QPR are now, so much worse off and

wondering why we changed board.

[Attack Barclay 2nd Half 0]

[quote user="lucky green trainers"] surely, its time for the board to match the loyalty and commitment of city fans and do what is necessary to attract the funds Granty needs to build a team fit to challenge for champs honours.

[/quote]Tell you what..... you post your knowledge of the individual board members financial commitments to the club to date and lets see if you can match 10 percent of the lowest figure.Maybe its time the fands matched the loyalty and commitment of the board.

[AP16 0]

[quote user="Cluck "][quote user="Safri15"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Safri15"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="EadiesRight Foot"]

Spot on post LGT. I know that we arent the most affluent (or should that be effluent?) team in the division, but we have been let down badly with the boards refusal to back the manager financially.

This is what cost us our place in the Premier League, and has made us hugely disappointing in the Championship. At a time when you mention clubs like Derby, Sunderland, Birmingham releasing funds for players, we are getting loans, freebees, and £75k worth of players. Doncaster should do away with the "prudence with ambition" nonsense, as it has us fighting relegation, paying overpaid wages to injury prone / lazy / inept players, and unhappy supporters. But as long as we are buying season tickets in large numbers, hey - who cares. They are probably cacking themselves with laughter.  

A more suitable phrase might be "speculate to accumulate". After all, not many clubs are able to go forward without some investment.

 

[/quote]

Bang on ERF!!!

Best post I have seen in a long while....  Doncaster & Co will be cacking themselves with laughter right now... rest assured about that.

There was a thread posted about Birmingham supporters on here the other day...  The party line being how poor supporters they are blah blah blah.  Are they really as bad as people have painted them?  They are not happy about what has been happening at their club the past couple of years, they reckon that the football that they are seeing is poor and they have wanted rid of Bruce as manager for as long as we have wanted rid of Worthy (yet Brum are still stuck with Bruce).

In my opinion the Birmingham supporters have shown some backbone... they have called for the sacking of Bruce, the Birmingham board haven''t listened, they are not happy with the football that they are seeing and they have voted with their feet.

What is so wrong in that???  If Birmingham wanted their fans onside and to be selling out St Andrews week in week out then perhaps they should start listening to their supporters instead of digging their heels in over Bruce remaining there as manager???

[/quote]

Hello Smudger you are a tosser!!!

Sorry I thought that I would bump this post back up seeing as none of you have seemed willing to take the bait on my alternative view of the Birmingham supporters [:-*]

[/quote]For once I agree with something you''ve said Smudger. Anyway, I agree with all that has been said pretty much. And as I''ve mentioned before, the only way to get out of this division is to spend some money. The only way to stay up, is to spend some money, and that is why we will never win the title again, or in my opinion get close to being promoted other than through the play-offs without Delia and Doncaster sticking their hands in their pockets and taking a bloody risk for once!!So far Granty''s made some good signings with very little money, he is also attempting, as it seems to flush out the dead wood. If this board wants to be taken seriously and wants the fans to know that they have the ambition to get out of this league to go on to bigger and better things, they must match it with the money. [/quote]

Nice to see that some of what has been said apeas to be sinking in with you Saf... there is hope for you yet!!!

[/quote]I''ve always thought that Smudger, your bleating hasn''t changed my opinion. The thing is though is that they wont take the risk to wade into a massive loan to buy players just in case it goes wrong, a la Leeds - and it''s almost a catch 22 situation. You either sit here waiting for a lucky break into the play offs on not much wonga, or you throw all caution to the wind with the risk of losing lots of money, and potentially the existence of the football club - but on the flipside of that coin, we could get promoted. I can see why its a risk that they are yet to take as to be honest, who wants to be in League 1 next year....10 years down the line...and who would want to see us take that risk which could potentially lose our club? No-one I hope....but in saying that, who still wants to be in The Championship in 10 years time....[/quote]

Here we go again...risk equals Leeds...foreign investor equals Hearts.

No wonder the club is going nowhere with a mentality more suited to a sweet shop.

[/quote]Persistent whinging and whining contributes to our club going no-where also cluck. Cue the automated response....

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Attack Barclay 2nd Half"][quote user="lucky green trainers"]

surely, its time for the board to match the loyalty and commitment of city fans and do what is necessary to attract the funds Granty needs to build a team fit to challenge for champs honours.


[/quote]

Tell you what..... you post your knowledge of the individual board members financial commitments to the club to date and lets see if you can match 10 percent of the lowest figure.

Maybe its time the fands matched the loyalty and commitment of the board.
[/quote]

as a plumber might say "ball-cocks!" the fans show more loyalty than anyone else in football INCLUDING the board.. Delia smith could put 100 million into peter grants transfer fund tommorow but if it all went pear shaped and we ended up in the conference this board, the manager and half the team would be out the door in a shot...

we fans would still be there though... Still beleiving... Money doesnt mean Loyalty... its what the fans feel in their hearts...

  spending nearly £150 to travel to some S**thole the other side of britain to stand on a rainy uncovered terrace, with 500 others watching us get walloped 6-0 is what fans do... have always done.. and will always do.. Board members walk away when its not profitable/fashionable/ or the club drops below the level they are happy with it being at... they get u in the mess they dont get u out!

 Barcelona are run by the fans... they appoint the board, the manager, and have (at times) decided the signings... bet ud swap what we have for what they have got?

 jas :)

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="7rew"]Mr Carrow.

We could very well do a Millwall if we change the board. 

Doing a Millwall is:
New man comes in and promises to be top half of the premiership in 5 years.
New man has arguement with manager(1), who was successful (FA cup final)
Manager leaves
New Manager(2) apointted
New Manager leaves before start of season after dissagreement with board
New Manager(3) apointted
New Managing director appointed after fan pressure, promises same as first guy.
4 More managers are used up to December
The good players sense a sinking ship and leave
Caretaker Manager(8) in January and Feburary is relatively sucessful (compared to last 6 anyway)
Caretaker Manager(8) decides he doesn''t want the job
New Manager(9) apointed in March
Side Relegated
Side Mid table in League 1 not looking like getting back anytime soon.

Attendences have nothing to do with it, nor does the side you start with. It could happen to virtually any club, at any time and Millwall started from a similar league position as we are in now. 

NOTE: I am not saying that it will happen with a change of board but that it is a possibility (it has happened once) that it would be good to avoid. I lived with a Millwall fan at the time it was NOT a good year for him.

I suppose we might *just* avoid the relegation part, but we would be at best in the same situation as QPR are now, so much worse off and wondering why we changed board.[/quote]

Most of Millwalls problems are based on financial issues/restraints which is a direct result of it being a club which has ambitions far above its station. A club which easily sells out a 25,000 stadium can realistically aim to become a top half Prem club. A club which cannot even half fill a 20,000 stadium will always (without a Wigan-style sugar daddy) face failure,recrimination and upheaval if they have such lofty ambitions.

And besides,if you know anything about NCFC you would understand that the people of Norfolk would NEVER allow their club to go under. All those of us supporters who have a semblance of ambition left are asking for is that the board strive to achieve the potential that the club so obviously has-even if it does mean taking an occasional financial risk. The alternative is backing a club which is run as nothing more than a stable,profit-making business where the "football side" is seen as all fine and dandy as long as we dont get relegated and the crowds keep rolling in. If you aim to stand still in football the rest will overtake you-and this is what has happened in the last 2 seasons. Are you happy with this situation or do you want to see COMPETETIVE football at Carrow Rd.?

[7rew 0]

Of course I want to see competitive football at carrow road. I have

never said anything else.  I do know some things about Norwich and

its supporters thank you.  I also have ambition for the club to

achieve and have never said otherwise. Just because I am pessimistic

about the "magic bullet" solution that a change of

board is seen to be by some on this message board does not mean that I

am a worse fan than you or anything else you are trying to insinuate.

Millwall''s immeadiate problems last season were the fault of their new

board, the starting position was weakened by years of trying to punch

above their weight. But the actual relegation was caused by a change in

board trying to get increased investment in

I also know that It would be possible to get us relegated (not go

under, just down a league) in a year if a sufficiently

malevolent/incompetant board took over, despite any amount of fan power

trying to get rid of them.  Fans may watch the game, but it is

still possible to ignore them from the board room (certainly for 6

months or more).  Do you think that Millwall fans didn''t try to

get rid of their board? Do you think doubling the size of the protests

would help? Do you not think that Millwall can''t find a much more

threatening group of supporters than a mob of norwich fans 2 or 3 times

as large?

A change of board is a risk, one I would be happy to see happen,

provided it comes off . But it is still a RISK and so all possible

consequences should be considered.

for another example of how things can go horribly wrong. Yes - they had

6 months at the top of the league, came second, got into europe. But

now the players can''t leave quickly enough, managers won''t stay there

and they have fallen behind Aberdeen. They are in for long dark times

in the near future.  Alot of people would take that for 6 months

at the top, but I would prefer to come 5th in the premiership and then

stay aroung that level for a long time.

One other thing - this board do take the occasional finacial risk (any

player over about 1.5 million is a big risk at championship level -

Cameron Jerome a Brum is a waste of atleast 2.5 million.) but its very

occasional. Don''t try and dress up throwing caution to the wind and

making a do or die bid for the premiership as an occasional fnacial

risk, it is a sustained and massive finacial risk.  One major part

of that risk is doing it in a year when 2 other teams are doing it and

ending up in the playoffs which can easily lead to death - see that lot

down the road. Also when promotion is achieved by do or die tactics it

isn''t sustainable, relegation immeadiately follows and you are in a

worse situation than you were before. The old gambling maxim is "Don''t

bet what you can''t afford to lose." and it is a good one, not following

it is a sure fire way to go under.

I repeat I don''t believe a change of board is always a bad thing, there

are many examples where it works, but equally many where it doesn''t and

as no club is in exactly the same as us, we could go either way.

[7rew 0]

Cluck:

Risk does not neccesarily equal Leeds and foriegn investor does not

neccesarily equal Hearts, just as home grown investor doesn''t

neccesarily equal Millwall.

On the other hand.

Risk does not neccesarily equal Bolton and foriegn investor does not

neccesarily equal Chelsea, just as home grown investor doesn''t

neccesarily equal Reading.

Could someone tell me if Bolton are the right example to use for

someone succesfully taking risks to get to the premiership, its quite

difficult to find an example.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="7rew"]Of course I want to see competitive football at carrow road. I have never said anything else.  I do know some things about Norwich and its supporters thank you.  I also have ambition for the club to achieve and have never said otherwise. Just because I am pessimistic about the "magic bullet" solution that a change of board is seen to be by some on this message board does not mean that I am a worse fan than you or anything else you are trying to insinuate.

Millwall''s immeadiate problems last season were the fault of their new board, the starting position was weakened by years of trying to punch above their weight. But the actual relegation was caused by a change in board trying to get increased investment in

I also know that It would be possible to get us relegated (not go under, just down a league) in a year if a sufficiently malevolent/incompetant board took over, despite any amount of fan power trying to get rid of them.  Fans may watch the game, but it is still possible to ignore them from the board room (certainly for 6 months or more).  Do you think that Millwall fans didn''t try to get rid of their board? Do you think doubling the size of the protests would help? Do you not think that Millwall can''t find a much more threatening group of supporters than a mob of norwich fans 2 or 3 times as large?

A change of board is a risk, one I would be happy to see happen, provided it comes off . But it is still a RISK and so all possible consequences should be considered.

for another example of how things can go horribly wrong. Yes - they had 6 months at the top of the league, came second, got into europe. But now the players can''t leave quickly enough, managers won''t stay there and they have fallen behind Aberdeen. They are in for long dark times in the near future.  Alot of people would take that for 6 months at the top, but I would prefer to come 5th in the premiership and then stay aroung that level for a long time.

One other thing - this board do take the occasional finacial risk (any player over about 1.5 million is a big risk at championship level - Cameron Jerome a Brum is a waste of atleast 2.5 million.) but its very occasional. Don''t try and dress up throwing caution to the wind and making a do or die bid for the premiership as an occasional fnacial risk, it is a sustained and massive finacial risk.  One major part of that risk is doing it in a year when 2 other teams are doing it and ending up in the playoffs which can easily lead to death - see that lot down the road. Also when promotion is achieved by do or die tactics it isn''t sustainable, relegation immeadiately follows and you are in a worse situation than you were before. The old gambling maxim is "Don''t bet what you can''t afford to lose." and it is a good one, not following it is a sure fire way to go under.

I repeat I don''t believe a change of board is always a bad thing, there are many examples where it works, but equally many where it doesn''t and as no club is in exactly the same as us, we could go either way.
[/quote]

A certain R.Chase was forced out of Carrow Rd by fan power-a feat that City fans can be rightly proud of. You`re right, it doesn`t happen very often but where there`s a will there`s a way. And believe me it was not because he realised the error of his ways that he quit-he quit when the passion and pressure from the fans determined to see a change got too much for him and his family. Of course there were people around at the time saying almost exactly what you`re saying now......

When you say that "this board do take the occasional financial risk" are you talking about when the fans have shovelled money into the club through the share issues and non-redemption of "B"shares (Ashton)? Or had you forgotten about that? It would be perfectly understandable as,for some reason, the board and its supporters dont mention it any more. Other than the transfers funded in that way the only other money this board has spent has been a small fraction of incoming transfer fees.

Of course you are right that a change of board does not guarantee success, however sometimes it is as much of a "risk" to stick with a failing board than to install a new one. Dont forget that this season we have risked a catastrophic relegation by having a "ridiculously small squad" (Quote:A.Drury). I must admit that things have improved slightly and the squad is certainly looking stronger but is it a coincidence that it took a possible relegation and fan revolt to make the board take a slight change of tack? I have never been a "sack the board" merchant but i am utterly convinced that,particularly since relegation,the priorities at the club have been wrong and that they have had the events of this season coming. I just hope enough fans have the sense to keep up the pressure and FOOTBALL will once again be the number one priority at Carrow Rd rather than the off-field obsession that Munby recently admitted to.

[Cluck 0]

Cripes...what a big page!

"Persistent whinging and whining contributes to our club going no-where also cluck. Cue the automated response"....

Nor does sitting on your a*se at CR playing Sammy the Seal. Whinging and whining as you naively put it, is actually better described as "voiced concern"....Passive spectating and an easily satifsied desire is far less likely to help the club get anywhere.

It''s all about perception....and how lilly livered our personal thinking is.

 

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="Cluck "]

Cripes...what a big page!

"Persistent whinging and whining contributes to our club going no-where also cluck. Cue the automated response"....

Nor does sitting on your a*se at CR playing Sammy the Seal. Whinging and whining as you naively put it, is actually better described as "voiced concern"....Passive spectating and an easily satifsied desire is far less likely to help the club get anywhere.

It''s all about perception....and how lilly livered our personal thinking is.

 

[/quote]

"Persistent whinging and whining contributes to our club going nowhere."  Does anyone honestly believe that''s true?  Perhaps they also believe that the fans "suck the ball into the net" and are the "12th man".  Yeah right, didn''t we learn anything from Craven Cottage?  It''s propaganda, spin in other words, designed to make people afraid of staying away or raising a dissenting voice in case they harm the club in some ill-defined way.  

The creation and nurturing of fear is a key element of spin, the invasion of Iraq being a particularly disgraceful example.  It makes me sick.  Get wise to it City fans, and take a reality check.

 

 

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="mystic megson"][quote user="Cluck "]

Cripes...what a big page!

"Persistent whinging and whining contributes to our club going no-where also cluck. Cue the automated response"....

Nor does sitting on your a*se at CR playing Sammy the Seal. Whinging and whining as you naively put it, is actually better described as "voiced concern"....Passive spectating and an easily satifsied desire is far less likely to help the club get anywhere.

It''s all about perception....and how lilly livered our personal thinking is.

 

[/quote]

"Persistent whinging and whining contributes to our club going nowhere."  Does anyone honestly believe that''s true?  Perhaps they also believe that the fans "suck the ball into the net" and are the "12th man".  Yeah right, didn''t we learn anything from Craven Cottage?  It''s propaganda, spin in other words, designed to make people afraid of staying away or raising a dissenting voice in case they harm the club in some ill-defined way.  

The creation and nurturing of fear is a key element of spin, the invasion of Iraq being a particularly disgraceful example.  It makes me sick.  Get wise to it City fans, and take a reality check.

 

 

[/quote]

hehehe oh but surely City have not been won promotion this year because SMUDGER hasn''t been there shouting on the lads to full effect Mystic???

City will never reach the play-off''s until I attend Carrow Road again surely???

Well all you lot are in for a long wait then.... coz like I said I won''t be back until Delia, Doncaster & Co have packed their bags!!!

[nutty nigel 7,533]

Does anyone else actually look forward to going to games? Is anyone else disappointed there isn''t a game to go to this weekend?

I''m not sure about fear and spin but I know I will miss going to a game on Saturday!

 

[ricardo 7,385]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="mystic megson"][quote user="Cluck "]

Cripes...what a big page!

"Persistent whinging and whining contributes to our club going no-where also cluck. Cue the automated response"....

Nor does sitting on your a*se at CR playing Sammy the Seal. Whinging and whining as you naively put it, is actually better described as "voiced concern"....Passive spectating and an easily satifsied desire is far less likely to help the club get anywhere.

It''s all about perception....and how lilly livered our personal thinking is.

 

[/quote]

"Persistent whinging and whining contributes to our club going nowhere."  Does anyone honestly believe that''s true?  Perhaps they also believe that the fans "suck the ball into the net" and are the "12th man".  Yeah right, didn''t we learn anything from Craven Cottage?  It''s propaganda, spin in other words, designed to make people afraid of staying away or raising a dissenting voice in case they harm the club in some ill-defined way.  

The creation and nurturing of fear is a key element of spin, the invasion of Iraq being a particularly disgraceful example.  It makes me sick.  Get wise to it City fans, and take a reality check.

 

 

[/quote]

hehehe oh but surely City have not been won promotion this year because SMUDGER hasn''t been there shouting on the lads to full effect Mystic???

City will never reach the play-off''s until I attend Carrow Road again surely???

Well all you lot are in for a long wait then.... coz like I said I won''t be back until Delia, Doncaster & Co have packed their bags!!!

[/quote]

               He He He If that''s the case maybe it will be you that has the long wait then Smudger!

[ca 1]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Does anyone else actually look forward to going to games? Is anyone else disappointed there isn''t a game to go to this weekend?

I''m not sure about fear and spin but I know I will miss going to a game on Saturday! [/quote]

 

I''ll miss us not having a game on Saturday Cluck but have got my ticket for the ColU game, am hoping to go to the Hull game, then we have WBA at home, then I''m off to stay with friends in the Midlands the week after, so will get to the Leic game, then its Ipswich at home.

So will be fed up this weekend but then will see out team 5 weekends  in a row after that [:D]

[Bigmarkcanary 0]

[quote user="cityangel"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Does anyone else actually look forward to going to games? Is anyone else disappointed there isn''t a game to go to this weekend?

I''m not sure about fear and spin but I know I will miss going to a game on Saturday! [/quote]

 

I''ll miss us not having a game on Saturday Cluck but have got my ticket for the ColU game, am hoping to go to the Hull game, then we have WBA at home, then I''m off to stay with friends in the Midlands the week after, so will get to the Leic game, then its Ipswich at home.

So will be fed up this weekend but then will see out team 5 weekends  in a row after that [:D]

[/quote]

Yes, I''ll miss us not playing too ca[:(]. By the way, it''s not Ipswich it''s Ipsh**t[;)].