derby shows our defence not good enough

[lucky green trainers 0]

tragic result - city didn''t deserve to lose, good game and our attack looks good enough, especially martin - absolute class.  derby cheated their way with timewasteritis - we should have had 6mins plus of time added.  midfield needs overhaul, dicko and the rest of the team stood like statues for the first goal, but our defence is not commanding enough - they stand off and haven''t the class to control games at the back.  in short our defence will not get us promoted next year.  2 new central defenders needed, with shacks as back up, and a new right back, plus marshall in goal if we can get him.

[Tufnell Park Canary 0]

Yes, the team needs improvement, but I feel much more positively than I did a few matches ago. I''m sure I''ll have the usual blind optimism at the start of next season.

 

[huck tastic<IMG src="http:new.pinkun.comforumsimagesline.gif"><BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Bryan Hamilton could turn this around...<BR><FONT> 0]

Agree with most of that...I think we need a cb partner for Shackell, goalkeeper and an attacking midfielder as a priorityCan''t wait to see Martin and Earnshaw play together

[Tony Moore 0]

What a load of rubbish!!!!!! I don''t know if any of you were at the game tonight but I thought Shackell AND Doherty (yes him!!) played the best double act I''ve seen from them in quite some time. When will you realise that as long as we''ve got the likes of Etuhu giving away goals like there''s no tomorrow the defence doesn''t have a chance. The trouble with all too many people on this board is that you like to get the knife into someone (eg Doherty) and rational thought goes straight out of the window. Please get real!!!!!!!

Tony.

[Mark .Y. 351]

Couldn''t agree more, I think we have only kept one clean sheet since November in all competitions - that is an incredible (and frightening !!) statistic. The defence needs sorting out asap. When we score first we need to have at least some hope that we will hang on for a 1-0 win, at the moment that is impossible.

Mark .Y.

  

[lucky green trainers 0]

[quote user="Tony Moore"]

What a load of rubbish!!!!!! I don''t know if any of you were at the game tonight but I thought Shackell AND Doherty (yes him!!) played the best double act I''ve seen from them in quite some time. When will you realise that as long as we''ve got the likes of Etuhu giving away goals like there''s no tomorrow the defence doesn''t have a chance. The trouble with all too many people on this board is that you like to get the knife into someone (eg Doherty) and rational thought goes straight out of the window. Please get real!!!!!!!

Tony.

[/quote]get real????  how irrational of me to suggest our defence isn''t upto it,  given our appalling goal conceded record.  fact is in my opinion, docs and shacks ain''t no bruce/watson or malky/flemming combo.  they won''t get us up.  nuff said.

[Salopian 1]

If by "defence" you mean the back four, then they could certainly be improved, but remember:1) Drury was out, and Lappin replaced him without a left-sided player in front as cover2) Hughes is not a right back, whatever else he may be3) Yet again we contained the strikers, and the goals against us were scored by midifielders who were not marked or closed down properly. I would suggest that the problem is further up the field!I am not saying that the back four are excellent, but put the blame where it lies!

[ZLF 271]

Shax and Doc did defend well last night and kept Howard very quiet - my only criticisms of them is their appalling distribution (Docs was poor but shax even poorer) and that the movement from Derby for their second goal we lost our discipline which meant that we lost any sense of shape - but that applies to the whole defence and midfield, not just shax and doc.

Drury was missed last night and reinforces my view that you only realise what a player does when they are not there.  Likewise we have now had 4 goals in consecutive games coming from the right flank - this simply didnt happen when Colin, probably the clubs best defender, was playing right back.  

Where THEY were let down was by

• the wide defenders failing to keep a shape - too often shax and doc were dragged wide to cover their absence and is understandable when using midfielders as a stop gap
• Fozzy and Etuhu not tracking midfield runners in the second half which meant both central defenders were worked unnecesarily.

We need to move to 4-4-2 which means buying players in the summer but making do for now. 

[Bob M 0]

agreed, if they conceed goals regularly at this standard they wont have a chance if we want to challenge for promotion or in the prem if we went up next year. get real???????  why have we let some many goals in if they are the dest double act for years?

[Alan Ball 0]

Lets take last nights game, Derby defence was fully supported by a midfield 4 that got back and defended as a unit if they had our midfield defenders then we know the result.Watching the first derby gaol last night showed that we do not track any runners and he had the freedom of the midfield to advance and score.When we attacked hucks was

always closed down before he got to the defenders not by the defenders.We still have no linkage play or players creative  enough to create only individuals who go it alone.Docs and shacks are good enough for this league but until we defend as a team we will always see the same results.

 

[Sigourney 0]

[quote user="Bob M"]agreed, if they conceed goals regularly at this standard they wont have a chance if we want to challenge for promotion or in the prem if we went up next year. get real???????  why have we let some many goals in if they are the dest double act for years?[/quote]The defensive is exposed, really need a player assigned to defensive midfield role, to sit in front of the back four. Our central midfield players are exactly that, central - not really bursting into the box, not really defensive.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,017]

Tony M - I thought that the Doc and Shacks were good in the air, but did you not see the Doc going to ground early, missing the tackle (on more than one occassion) when it would have been better and more sensible to stand up and shepherd the attacker away from goal?

[djc 0]

Defence this... defence that... Doherty this...Shackell that... Andy Hughes.....blah blah etc.

Its 11 vs 11 on the pitch.

we should all defend as a team, and attack as a team. we all win together or lose together (or draw)

Whatever the argument, statistically our Club has not been good enough for the past 2 seasons, since Fulham away.

 

[Evil Monkey 52]

I''ve posted about our midfield on Salopian''s thread "What''s the point of training"... for the benefit of those who haven''t read it and because it applies here, here''s a CJF-style copy and paste... (because I can''t be bothered to write it again)... [:)]"

I agree with the gist of your post, Salopian, as it''s something that''s

been on my mind for at least a year - our midfield''s inability to

prevent the ball getting to the defence.I''m

a firm believer in "defending from the front", and I don''t think that

this necessarily takes away from the game of the flair players - look

at someone like Rooney who, if he loses the ball, is often seen

charging 50 yards to win it back again... exactly what at least one of

two strikers should be doing at all times.The midfield should

be closing down and challenging for every ball, loose or otherwise...

they should not be backing off or wandering around watching the play go

on around them (as Etuhu seems to do so often)... to go on an attack

you need to win the ball first, and that''s the job of the central

midfielders if the ball is in their area.  It seems to me that all too

often we allow the play to reach our defence and just hope they don''t

score so that we can get the ball back to mount an attack.  Etuhu

against Chelsea was a perfect example of what midfielders should be

doing, but it seems he can only do it when he can be bothered... which

isn''t often...We saw it in our promotion season - Holty and

Francis working tirelessly to win the ball in the middle of the park

and thus protecting our defence.If we can start to do this

consistently, we may suddenly realise that our defence isn''t that bad

after all, but is simply under undue pressure..."

[beelsie 0]

EM!! Ive been saying this for three seasons now and very little seems to alter in this regard. our attacking force has improved but we still have no holding and winning players high enough up the field of play,and we still dont move up and down the field together as a team should.

[SM 0]

The season has shown a lot of things, this being one of them. Our defending has been quite good e.g. tackling, marking and heading, but it is the passing which has been letting the whole team down. If you think of our team yesterday most of them make to many mistakes when trying to pass under pressure and this is why are in this situation we are. Derby rarely gave the ball away cheaply when the ball was in the defence or midfield it was when an attack broke down most of the time. Going through our outfield 10 last night, how many can pass a decent ball.

Hughes - If only he had the ability to match his 100% effort, when it comes to passing a ball this guy tries so hard to get it right but most of the time it ends up with the opposition or in the stand.

Doc - Once again passing isn''t really the docs strong point, and the diagonall balls do my f****n head in.

Shax - Same as the doc

Lappin - very calm on the ball and can always be relied on to pass a decent ball from what i have seen so far

Croft - Although it usually goes sideways,  it goes to a yellow shirt most of the time.

Safri - IMO the best passer in the team and can always pick out a yellow shirt

Fotheringham - From what i have seen he is not the best passer but is comfortable, this could be down to fitness though

Etuhu - When he has confidence he can be the best in the team, but when he dosen''t (most of the time)     

Hux - Can pass but loses the ball and dosen''t tackle back enough

Martin - haven''t seen enough of him but looks ok

 

Thats 3 players who are calm on the ball and can pass a ball, not a majority to be honest. this is why the pressure is always on the defence and what makes them look rubbish when they let goals in. 

[Evil Monkey 52]

Exerpt from today''s article with Grant in which he talks about Chris Martin, there''s a little bit at the end which has confirmed what I''ve been saying for ages...Grant also said his defenders were not to blame for some of City''s recent defeats.He

said: “The two centre-backs have been brilliant. The back four, not a

problem. You can see where we''re conceding goals from - at Preston,

from 30 yards out. We got shots against us at Luton last week, one

against the bar, one where Gallacher made a fantastic save. That tells

you we''re backing off.”We need a strong midfield who don''t just back off and let the opposition stroll past... time for us to toughen up and start conceding some free kicks in the middle of the park, if you ask me!