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Evil Monkey

Earnie's Hummer

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[quote user="Cluck "]

It would seem that a lifetime of taking information on board in small doses and then coming to an overall conclusion does not outweigh the single track view of modern educators with a particular agenda to put across. That''s fine for those still in education and coming to terms with life...but it''s not until you move out into the wider world that you will come to question much of what you have been actually taught. That''s what happened to me....and the same will happen to you.

No doubt we can argue this point until the cows come home....but after so many "scares" and public paranoia have come and gone in my lifetime...I''ll stick to my original thought that this is just another puff of smoke. There are compelling arguments on both sides I''ll concede...but no certainty either way...so figures based on pure hypothesis remain speculation.

I''m not saying that recycling and conservation of the Worlds dwindling resources is a bad thing....but when it is hijacked by the "global warming" activists as part of an overall "save the world" campaign I switch off. The two are seperate issues...but it would seem for many they must go hand in hand.

[/quote]You couldn''t be any more patronising if you went to university and took a degree course in "The Art of Being Patronising and It''s Uses in Modern Society"... which of course, you wouldn''t do because you''re happy to learn everything from "hard knocks" and... well, from what else I don''t know because how you''ve formed the conclusion that climate science is just a scare is, frankly, astounding... Form your own conclusions from the evidence, yes, but to disregard that evidence as hypothesy and speculation, when the science is well-established and accepted throughout the world, is pure arrogance, though not entirely unexpected from you.I''ve done my best, folks... some people will never be changed...Wasn''t the term "stuck in their ways" used earlier?? [;)]

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[quote user="Evil Monkey"][quote user="Cluck "]

It would seem that a lifetime of taking information on board in small doses and then coming to an overall conclusion does not outweigh the single track view of modern educators with a particular agenda to put across. That''s fine for those still in education and coming to terms with life...but it''s not until you move out into the wider world that you will come to question much of what you have been actually taught. That''s what happened to me....and the same will happen to you.

No doubt we can argue this point until the cows come home....but after so many "scares" and public paranoia have come and gone in my lifetime...I''ll stick to my original thought that this is just another puff of smoke. There are compelling arguments on both sides I''ll concede...but no certainty either way...so figures based on pure hypothesis remain speculation.

I''m not saying that recycling and conservation of the Worlds dwindling resources is a bad thing....but when it is hijacked by the "global warming" activists as part of an overall "save the world" campaign I switch off. The two are seperate issues...but it would seem for many they must go hand in hand.

[/quote]

You couldn''t be any more patronising if you went to university and took a degree course in "The Art of Being Patronising and It''s Uses in Modern Society"... which of course, you wouldn''t do because you''re happy to learn everything from "hard knocks" and... well, from what else I don''t know because how you''ve formed the conclusion that climate science is just a scare is, frankly, astounding... Form your own conclusions from the evidence, yes, but to disregard that evidence as hypothesy and speculation, when the science is well-established and accepted throughout the world, is pure arrogance, though not entirely unexpected from you.

I''ve done my best, folks... some people will never be changed...

Wasn''t the term "stuck in their ways" used earlier?? [;)]
[/quote]

Nope...what you actually mean is "not everyone is as gullible and easily led as me".

Not everyone follows the crowd EM....and not everyone needs another person''s viewpoint to call their own. As it happens I caught the re-run of the Channel 4 doc tonight....and it says much about the jolly green circus you subscribe to. Propaganda by the lefties who would have us all eat grass and keep warm by moonlight....while eating magic mushrooms to dream up yet more hare brain ideas to protest about.

Sorry...but total tosh....

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give it a break will you.

i cannot believe someone who is apparantly as educated as you are, and as ''intelligent'' as you are is trying to form a strong argument against global warming and recycling! its quite sad!

and saying that things are hijacked by the global warming activists... what do you mean ''hijacked''? global warming activists wouldnt just take something and say to each other - ''well this one sounds pretty good.... SHOTGUN!''

it is people with attitudes like you which is causing all the problems at the moment. youve seen the facts, you know the causes and effects - i dont understand why you are arguing against pretty much everyone on this forum for your opinion. surely the fact your outnumbered is a clear sign..... you might be a lil bit wrong?

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[quote user="the son of doc"]give it a break will you. i cannot believe someone who is apparantly as educated as you are, and as ''intelligent'' as you are is trying to form a strong argument against global warming and recycling! its quite sad! and saying that things are hijacked by the global warming activists... what do you mean ''hijacked''? global warming activists wouldnt just take something and say to each other - ''well this one sounds pretty good.... SHOTGUN!'' it is people with attitudes like you which is causing all the problems at the moment. youve seen the facts, you know the causes and effects - i dont understand why you are arguing against pretty much everyone on this forum for your opinion. surely the fact your outnumbered is a clear sign..... you might be a lil bit wrong?[/quote]

Ooooopsi daisy. Another of the "green warriors" to battle with I see...and still on the brainwashed "save our planet" education tread mill no doubt.

Can''t be bothered with it now...so I''m claiming I''m right to infinity.....and that makes me the winner I think.         [:)]

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[quote user="Cluck "]

Nope...what you actually mean is "not everyone is as gullible and easily led as me".

Not everyone follows the crowd EM....and not everyone needs another person''s viewpoint to call their own.

[/quote]

You know that doesn''t really jive with you getting your opinions from a documentary.

[quote]

As it happens I caught the re-run of the Channel 4 doc tonight....and it says much about the jolly green circus you subscribe to.

[/quote]

Is that the same documentary that has shown to be a horribly edited lying sham of Micheal Moore proportions?

The creator of that ''documentary'', Martin Durkin, produced "Against Nature" which was aired on Channel 4 in 1997. It focused on the same global warming type of stuff. It was later found out that the interviews with the scientists were heavily edited to distort their meaning. Channel 4 had to issue an apology.

Source: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Against_Nature

George Monbiot, the "Honorary Professor at the Department of Politics in Keele and Visiting Professor at the Department of Environmental Science at the University of East London" had this to say about the newer documentary:

[quote user="George Monbiot"]

The decision to commission this programme seems even odder when you discover who is making it.

In 1997, the director, Martin Durkin, produced a very similar series for Channel 4 called “Against Nature”, which also maintained that global warming was a scam dreamt up by environmentalists. It was riddled with hilarious scientific howlers.

More damagingly, the only way in which Durkin could sustain his thesis was to deceive the people he interviewed and to edit their answers to change their meaning. Following complaints by his interviewees, the Independent Television Commission found that “the views of the four complainants, as made clear to the interviewer, had been distorted by selective editing” and that they had been “misled as to the content and purpose of the programmes when they agreed to take part.”(14) Channel 4 was obliged to broadcast one of the most humiliating primetime apologies it has ever made.

[/quote]

Source: http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2007/01/30/another-species-of-denial/

On to the arguments presented in the documentary. First, sunspots and solar activity cannot possibly be responsible for the warming trend we''re seeing. We have satellites that do a damn good job of telling us what it''s like up there, and they''ve not detected any appreciable increase in solar activity that could correlate with global warming.

Here is a very comprehensive review on the subject in Nature from late last year:

[quote]

Variations in the Sun''s total energy output (luminosity) are caused by changing dark (sunspot) and bright structures on the solar disk during the 11-year sunspot cycle.

The variations measured from spacecraft since 1978 are too small to have contributed appreciably to accelerated global warming over the past 30 years. In this Review, we show that detailed analysis of these small output variations has greatly advanced our understanding of solar luminosity change, and this new understanding indicates that brightening of the Sun is unlikely to have had a significant influence on global warming since the seventeenth century.

Additional climate forcing by changes in the Sun''s output of ultraviolet light, and of magnetized plasmas, cannot be ruled out. The suggested mechanisms are, however, too complex to evaluate meaningfully at present.

[/quote]

Source: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v443/n7108/full/nature05072.html

On CO2 temperature lag in ice cores, Jeff Severinghaus, Professor of Geosciences Scripps Institution of Oceanography University of California, San Diego says:

[quote]

This is an issue that is often misunderstood in the public sphere and media, so it is worth spending some time to explain it and clarify it.

At least three careful ice core studies have shown that CO2 starts to rise about 800 years (600-1000 years) after Antarctic temperature during glacial terminations.

These terminations are pronounced warming periods that mark the ends of the ice ages that happen every 100,000 years or so.

Does this prove that CO2 doesn''t cause global warming? The answer is no.

The reason has to do with the fact that the warmings take about 5000 years to be complete. The lag is only 800 years. All that the lag shows is that CO2 did not cause the first 800 years of warming, out of the 5000 year trend. The other 4200 years of warming could in fact have been caused by CO2, as far as we can tell from this ice core data.

The 4200 years of warming make up about 5/6 of the total warming. So CO2 could have caused the last 5/6 of the warming, but could not have caused the first 1/6 of the warming.

From studying all the available data (not just ice cores), the probable sequence of events at a termination goes something like this. Some (currently unknown) process causes Antarctica and the surrounding ocean to warm. This process also causes CO2 to start rising, about 800 years later. Then CO2 further warms the whole planet, because of its heat-trapping properties. This leads to even further CO2 release. So CO2 during ice ages should be thought of as a "feedback", much like the feedback that results from putting a microphone too near to a loudspeaker.

In other words, CO2 does not initiate the warmings, but acts as an amplifier once they are underway. From model estimates, CO2 (along with other greenhouse gases CH4 and N2O) causes about half of the full glacial-to-interglacial warming.

[/quote]

Source: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/co2-in-ice-cores/

Real Climate also debunked the film: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/03/swindled/

If you have any evidence to the contrary, not presented from a documentary shown to be full of falsehoods, please provide it.

[quote]

Propaganda by the lefties who would have us all eat grass and keep warm by moonlight....while eating magic mushrooms to dream up yet more hare brain ideas to protest about.

Sorry...but total tosh....

[/quote]

Maybe if you didn''t horribly caricature those who disagree with you with bizarre strawman arguments, you might actually learn something.

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I wouldn''t worry, SOD (what an unfortunate acronym), you''ll learn pretty quickly that Cluck is the most ridiculous poster on this site, and in turn the most ridiculed.  He thinks his years at the school of hard knocks, and his age qualify him to be more intelligent and more wisened that any other poster on here (with the exception of his mistress, Smudger) whereas, in fact, his opinions and ideals are mostly garbage regurgitated from the pages of the Daily Mail.  You''ll also soon discover his "wounded soldier" routine, in which he cries about people slagging him off whilst calling everyone who doesn''t agree with him sheep... Unfortunately some clowns decided they missed him recently and his ego has gone into overdrive.  I''ve tried hard on this thread to use reason and well-structured arguments to show Cluck that his opinions and assumptions are in error, but he responds by spouting the same insults and conspiracy theories over and over... classic Cluck, I''m afraid.Welcome to the boards, SOD, but try not to take Cluck too seriously... he''s just after attention, like a little child, and though we should all really just ignore him it really is so much fun to flame him and see what nonsense he comes up with next... it''s like a sport! [:D]

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[quote user="Evil Monkey"]I wouldn''t worry, SOD (what an unfortunate acronym), you''ll learn pretty quickly that Cluck is the most ridiculous poster on this site, and in turn the most ridiculed.  He thinks his years at the school of hard knocks, and his age qualify him to be more intelligent and more wisened that any other poster on here (with the exception of his mistress, Smudger) whereas, in fact, his opinions and ideals are mostly garbage regurgitated from the pages of the Daily Mail.  You''ll also soon discover his "wounded soldier" routine, in which he cries about people slagging him off whilst calling everyone who doesn''t agree with him sheep... Unfortunately some clowns decided they missed him recently and his ego has gone into overdrive.  I''ve tried hard on this thread to use reason and well-structured arguments to show Cluck that his opinions and assumptions are in error, but he responds by spouting the same insults and conspiracy theories over and over... classic Cluck, I''m afraid.

Welcome to the boards, SOD, but try not to take Cluck too seriously... he''s just after attention, like a little child, and though we should all really just ignore him it really is so much fun to flame him and see what nonsense he comes up with next... it''s like a sport! [:D]
[/quote]

You know...if you ever want to get to sleep with me EM...you really need to watch the attitude.

Anyway...as I''ve said....I''m right to infinity...so you lose I think....and no returns!........

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thanks for the reply! im glad that he gets that kind of reception - his arguments are completely ridiculous! i dont know how even this ''smudger'' character can stick up for him - even agree with him! absolutely ridiculous!

i love this message board. i dont know how on earth i ever lived without this!

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[quote user="the son of doc"]thanks for the reply! im glad that he gets that kind of reception - his arguments are completely ridiculous! i dont know how even this ''smudger'' character can stick up for him - even agree with him! absolutely ridiculous! i love this message board. i dont know how on earth i ever lived without this![/quote]

I said infinity and no returns....and that applies to dummies too.  I win I''m afraid....you lose.

Just off to check that my pile of tyres is still burning nicely.......[Y]

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[quote user="Cluck "]

[quote user="the son of doc"]thanks for the reply! im glad that he gets that kind of reception - his arguments are completely ridiculous! i dont know how even this ''smudger'' character can stick up for him - even agree with him! absolutely ridiculous! i love this message board. i dont know how on earth i ever lived without this![/quote]

I said infinity and no returns....and that applies to dummies too.  I win I''m afraid....you lose.

Just off to check that my pile of tyres is still burning nicely.......[Y]

[/quote]

So, that''s what you''re smoking Cluck. I knew it had to be something powerful.

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Hey cluck i have never met you but you must be on the same wave length as me .Global warming what a joke its just a way of squeezing more taxes out of us and creating jobs for the boysAll those looney greens drive me crazy

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i cant believe you are apparantly 40, and are mature enough to hold a job and a family!

what must arguments over who stole the last cookie be like in your household!

and just for your information im not exactly a green warrior - but what the original post was trying to say is that norwich city is trying to reinvent itself as a ''green'' football club through energy saving etc so having their players drive around in hummers seems slightly double standards.

or did your little mind not understand this?

actually i take the last sentence back. you clearly havent and will never understand the post - because it wasnt a post which YOU made.

oh mighty cluck.

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[quote user="Evil Monkey"]I wouldn''t worry, SOD (what an unfortunate acronym), you''ll learn pretty quickly that Cluck is the most ridiculous poster on this site, and in turn the most ridiculed.  He thinks his years at the school of hard knocks, and his age qualify him to be more intelligent and more wisened that any other poster on here (with the exception of his mistress, Smudger) whereas, in fact, his opinions and ideals are mostly garbage regurgitated from the pages of the Daily Mail.  You''ll also soon discover his "wounded soldier" routine, in which he cries about people slagging him off whilst calling everyone who doesn''t agree with him sheep... Unfortunately some clowns decided they missed him recently and his ego has gone into overdrive.  I''ve tried hard on this thread to use reason and well-structured arguments to show Cluck that his opinions and assumptions are in error, but he responds by spouting the same insults and conspiracy theories over and over... classic Cluck, I''m afraid.

Welcome to the boards, SOD, but try not to take Cluck too seriously... he''s just after attention, like a little child, and though we should all really just ignore him it really is so much fun to flame him and see what nonsense he comes up with next... it''s like a sport! [:D]
[/quote] i completely agree with you!!

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[quote user="Evil Monkey"]I wouldn''t worry, SOD (what an unfortunate acronym), you''ll learn pretty quickly that Cluck is the most ridiculous poster on this site, and in turn the most ridiculed.  He thinks his years at the school of hard knocks, and his age qualify him to be more intelligent and more wisened that any other poster on here (with the exception of his mistress, Smudger) whereas, in fact, his opinions and ideals are mostly garbage regurgitated from the pages of the Daily Mail.  You''ll also soon discover his "wounded soldier" routine, in which he cries about people slagging him off whilst calling everyone who doesn''t agree with him sheep... Unfortunately some clowns decided they missed him recently and his ego has gone into overdrive.  I''ve tried hard on this thread to use reason and well-structured arguments to show Cluck that his opinions and assumptions are in error, but he responds by spouting the same insults and conspiracy theories over and over... classic Cluck, I''m afraid.

Welcome to the boards, SOD, but try not to take Cluck too seriously... he''s just after attention, like a little child, and though we should all really just ignore him it really is so much fun to flame him and see what nonsense he comes up with next... it''s like a sport! [:D]
[/quote]

You really shouldn''t call yourself a clown you know EVIL???

I really can''t believe that we have 9 pages of this kind of nonsense on a FOOTBALL messageboard!!!

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I have been interested in following this thread and reading the various opinions.

It seems all sides are in agreement that the world is getting warmer over the last 50 years. Scientists believe this is due to greenhouse gasses and that it''s a man made issue. Others point to the fact we have always suffered from climate changes and it could be due to natural variation of the suns activity. It seems to me there is no concrete proof that the scientists are right otherwise we would not be having this debate. But they certainly think it''s likely and they are certainly better qualified to have an opinion than me!

So, if we were to accept that it''s possibly down to greenhouse gasses and is possibly a man made problem then surely the wise thing to do would be to reduce the emissions that are believed to cause the problems. If we can to that in a way that also helps to stop the waste of the earths precious resourses than isn''t it a win/win anyway?

Go easy on me! I really am more comfortable talking football! [;)]

 

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All I know is that the winters seem hotter,  the summer is drier (but cloudier?) and average temperatures are increasing during my life time.

However as with much cutting edge science is our understanding of how the complex interactions on a global scale too immature to really comprehend what is going on?    160 years of data in a planet that is 5bn(?) years old is hardly statistically relevant for predictions of what can happen next.   I seem to remember a related CFC scare a few years ago about the ozone layer which always seemed to be shrinking, which has subsequently regrown and fluctuates in its size and it is rarely mentioned now. Is this the just the latest fad? 

I havent a scooby as to why the planet is heating up; and there are strong opinions on both sides of the scientific fence (with as much entrenchment on both sides as with the Worthy out debate!) as to what the cause is;   For me its like food - I lose track of what is currently good  for me and what is not,  which seems to change daily as scientists struggle to comprehend how food impacts the complex organism that is the human body.

I am sceptical about the whole man and greenhouse gas issue given the relative proportions of CO2 given out by the planets composite parts and the fact that the planet has been through non-human induced increases and decrease in temperature cycles that have been far hotter and colder than we have been now. I can also accept that a move from 1bn to 8bn population just over 100 years at a tome we have advanced phenomanally in technoligical terms, and our ability to burn resources,  must also have some impact.  But as to what it really means - can anyone really know just yet?  With the complex politics behind it the truth will eventually be out there but will we ever be told?

However for me the whole deabate,  although relatively pointless given our current real levels of understanding, can only be beneficial.   Why?  It seems to have forced an agenda that encourages more efficient use of the planets resources and that can only be good (cant it,  what about the butterfly affect  - or equal and opposite forces,  is it all a large uncollapsable weeble toy, it wobbles as we insignificant humans prod and pokle it but no matter waht it wont fall down?)

Not football related but certainly thought provoking

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NCFC is trying to re-invent itself as a Champion of the ''Green'' issue and stem the tide of global warming............Started well yesterday didn''t they..........floodlights on in the blazin'' sunshine.

 

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[quote user="Mello Yello"]

NCFC is trying to re-invent itself as a Champion of the ''Green'' issue and stem the tide of global warming............Started well yesterday didn''t they..........floodlights on in the blazin'' sunshine.

 

[/quote]

hehehe nice one MELLO....  page 10.... tick, tick, tick!!!

oh and Cluck is deadly serious SPAT  [;)]

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Cluck et al.

Remember that they (''the greens'') all have their jobs, careers and livelihoods in the burgeoning environmental industry to think about. They are aided of course by those who are always seduced uncritically by the latest fad.

It reminds me somewhat of the food/wellness/health/longevity debate, If one listened to most of that lot too long or seriously one wouldn''t eat or drink another damned thing.

I''m sure that it would be a wise business move for NCFC to quietly become environmentally certified to ISO 14000 for their various processes. And ISO 9000 certified too for their general management systems - if they''ve ever heard of it.

But as for the Johnny-come-lately crusading loons - give me a break.

Enjoy your Hummer Earnie - you''ve earned it, if that''s you fancy.

OTBC

 

 

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[quote user="Mello Yello"]

NCFC is trying to re-invent itself as a Champion of the ''Green'' issue and stem the tide of global warming............Started well yesterday didn''t they..........floodlights on in the blazin'' sunshine.

 

[/quote]Lol, that sounds about right from NCFC, Mello... I suppose Zip has the right tactic in that even though he''s not certain of the causes, the effects are there for all to see and anything that gets us thinking about it and debating it over ten pages shows its an issue people are interested in.  I''m still adamant that the science is sound, but even so it would be nice to think that people would start thinking about ways of helping out.  I certainly don''t do all that I can, but then I''m not the tree-hugging sort who''s going to start eating berries and cr*pping into cess pits... but if everyone did even a little bit, then that could be the difference between a 5 degree rise in 100 years and a 2 degree rise, the latter of which is, according to some reports, the best case scenario...

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Road Tax on the least fuel-efficient cars is to be increased, according to the Beeb...http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6464783.stmEasy to see why people are cynical, given that this is the second rise in two years on such vehicles... I think Mr Brown could have left the tax as it is and concentrated on taxing large businesses, who are far more polluting overall than a family of four taking the kids to school, and maybe tried to sort out the farce that is the carbon trading rules...Oh, and I just heard on the telly that whilst David Cameron cycles to work, he has his luggage chauffeured in... by car! So, really, there''s absolutely no point... and who said politicians were just all about gimmicks... [:|]

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