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Shaun Lawson

The sad decline of this messageboard

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Our football club is in deep, deep trouble at the moment - and many have very different views about what to do. Some want the board out, others want a new manager, others while being just as concerned and just as passionate about the club think our best bet is to pull together, unite behind the team, and help them stay up before worrying about anything else.All fine, all well and good. Messageboards such as these ought to be vehicles for discussing all the various issues affecting the club; but lately, that isn''t what''s been happening. Instead, for some bizarre reason, the focus seems to have been much more on a few curious individuals, who seem to spend their lives seeking attention, making absurd, over-the-top posts, and slagging off anyone who disagrees with them. Again and again, balanced, knowledgeable, fair-minded posters try to point out how ridiculous some of these individuals are; again and again, they''re drowned out by the attention-seeking few. The lunatics have taken over the asylum.What the very worst of these lunatics doesn''t seem to realise is that, while not attending a single match since November 2005 doesn''t make him any less of a fan, acting as though he knows better about players, the manager and where the club is headed and ridiculing those who disagree with him (most of whom do go to games, often week-in, week-out) leaves him with not a shred of credibility (if he ever had any in the first place, that is). One of the few who agrees with his views undermined his own credibility by admitting he goes to very few games too. It is absolutely incredible that said attention-seeker (and we all know who I''m talking about) thinks he can comment on the quality or otherwise of players he''s never even seen on a football pitch; but not only that, he laughably thinks he knows far, far more than those who do watch our team every week.Today, our resident laughing stock has had the nerve to tell someone who doesn''t want to go along to his ''protest'' that he''s "supporting our relegation into League 1"; and even, despicably, to suggest that making our majority shareholder''s life a misery is a perfectly acceptable tactic to make her leave. Dispensing his regular gibberish is one thing; advocating this sort of appalling behaviour another entirely. Over on Wrath of the Barclay, which I appreciate isn''t everyone''s cup of tea, but is home to a huge number of incredibly sharp individuals who care about the club so much it hurts, not a single person has signed up to our friend''s ''protest'': not because they''re happy with where the club finds itself (most of them are very, very angry actually) - but because they a) don''t think the situation warrants such drastic action, and b) see our resident seeker of hero-worship for the ridiculous figure he undoubtedly is. Indeed, if he tried to post the sorts of things he does on here on WotB, he''d be ignored at best, and more likely, ridiculed and laughed out of court for his obvious ignorance. Of course, maybe it''s our fault: maybe we shouldn''t allow ourselves to get so wound up. That''s the reaction he and a few others are no doubt looking for, after all... But actually, I don''t blame the sensible majority on here: I blame these few individuals, who seem more interested in themselves than their football club. Shortly after I criticised another well-known poster on here a while back for his incessant "we''re all doomed!" negativity, he sharpened up his act, and credit to him for doing so: his opinions are far more credible and reasonable as a result. But I hold out no such hope in you-know-who''s case: I don''t think he''d know a reasonable argument if it smacked him in the face.Please, please, please can we just get back to discussing Norwich City on here? Please can we stop overreacting to everything; please can we stop personalising things? Of course, I''m as guilty in that as anyone, as this post proves - but if only these few individuals either snapped out of it, had the decency to listen to other points of view and treat them with respect, and if not, were ignored by the rest of us, this board might start being a far more interesting place to be around. Because at the moment, it''s all too predictable, and very, very boring - and the self-obsession of a mindless few has made it so.

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100% agree.  Fantastic post.

We all know that we are in trouble.  Most of us recognise that the issues are complex and can be argued from a number of different perspectives.  Most of us are capable of reasoned debate, and respect a wide range of views as long as they are reasoned and well argued.  This Messageboard has become very boring and seems to be detiorating to the lowest common denominator, which is sad.

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[quote user="ricky knight"]

lets all bury our heads in the sand, hail, queen delia and king grant any dissenters will be banned.

[/quote]I rest my case, m''lud.

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[quote user="ricky knight"]

lets all bury our heads in the sand, hail, queen delia and king grant any dissenters will be banned.

[/quote]Good post, Shaun, however I think the above quote - the first reply to your articulate and well-thought-out post - shows that it''s going to be a hard job getting these boards back to a place of reason and healthy debate.  These people are mostly "clever" in their tactics - they rarely start new threads, as they know that not as many people will react, but instead "hijack" other people''s threads and turn interesting posts into arenas for childish bickering.  And what threads they do start are simply grounds for their cohorts to applaud and slap each other on the back.  The result - total coverage of the message boards.It''s going to take time to turn things around at Norwich, that''s for sure... unfortunately I think it''s going to take even longer to get the Pinkun Message Boards back to the fun and interesting place it used to be.

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[quote user="Evil Monkey"][quote user="ricky knight"]

lets all bury our heads in the sand, hail, queen delia and king grant any dissenters will be banned.

[/quote]

Good post, Shaun, however I think the above quote - the first reply to your articulate and well-thought-out post - shows that it''s going to be a hard job getting these boards back to a place of reason and healthy debate.  These people are mostly "clever" in their tactics - they rarely start new threads, as they know that not as many people will react, but instead "hijack" other people''s threads and turn interesting posts into arenas for childish bickering.  And what threads they do start are simply grounds for their cohorts to applaud and slap each other on the back.  The result - total coverage of the message boards.

It''s going to take time to turn things around at Norwich, that''s for sure... unfortunately I think it''s going to take even longer to get the Pinkun Message Boards back to the fun and interesting place it used to be.
[/quote]

mmm words pot, kettle and black spring to mind????

What is this thread and the one aimed at myself that has about 5 pages worth of posts all about???

Both have little to do with football may I suggest and neither were started by me....   baaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!  [:@]

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this board has declined because the football club have, all you people want is what you want to hear, you are the ones who do not want debate, this is a forum, that means debate, like it or not. I am willing to fight my corner, push my views, please or offend but i will never be a sheep. Also the offensive posts seem to be coming from very people who are complaining, i have been forthright but i deny being offensive.

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[quote user="Evil Monkey"]

It''s going to take time to turn things around at Norwich, that''s for sure... unfortunately I think it''s going to take even longer to get the Pinkun Message Boards back to the fun and interesting place it used to be.
[/quote]

 

But we will get this message board back to being fun and interesting as it used to be because theres only a few of them and theres a lot more of us.

Smudger, Cluck, Ricky and co will get bored eventually and dissappear, they all do when they''ve had their fun and think they''ve annoyed us enough.

Great post Shaun.

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[quote user="August 64"]

100% agree.  Fantastic post.

We all know that we are in trouble.  Most of us recognise that the issues are complex and can be argued from a number of different perspectives.  Most of us are capable of reasoned debate, and respect a wide range of views as long as they are reasoned and well argued.  This Messageboard has become very boring and seems to be detiorating to the lowest common denominator, which is sad.

[/quote]

I agree fully.  I don''t for one minute think that we are doing well, I don''t think anyone does, and being 18th in the league in a season when we were anticipating being in the promotion/play-off frame hardly suggests otherwise.  But nor do I think the world is about to end and I certainly don''t need to come on here to read negativity from the same posters day in day out, nor can I see what anyone gets out of it other than making themselves more miserable.

Smudger, for example, has posted something like 700 posts and as far as I can see they have almost all been the same, slagging off anyone and everyone - now supporters who go to games are to blame, are fools and deserve to see our side relegated.  How someone with such opinions be classed by anyone as a Norwich supporter is beyond me, as it seems there is not one thing about the club that he actually supports.

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Good post Shaun and expresses what I and, I''m sure many many others, have been feeling for the past few months. I will go a little further and say that I think the individuals you are referring to have actually HIJACKED this forum and I think, for the benefit of all and the ongoing quality of the forum, it should stop. I know that sounds extreme to use that term but allow me to elaborate:

Many posters on here ( and I''m certainly no exception ) from time to time enter into heated debate on a particular issue. This runs the gammut of drawing emotional reaction in terms of stimulation for some, boredom for others, concern with some becoming too personal etc etc. Sometimes, some of these threads have gone on too long. But this is different.

I have always expressed a strong opinion to the moderators to be liberal in allowing freedom of speech and censoring as a last resort. I''m sure the moderators do their best for the most part. Over the three plus years I have been participating, when certain posters, whether it''s me or anyone else, appeared  to go "over the top" on occasion there are those who say ignore what you don''t like, you don''t have to respond etc. Of course, that is true. What is happening now however, is that these minority of posters are literally hijacking virtually every thread in order to repeat their one single theme. I believe it''s causing the good posters who are genuinely interested in reasonable debate to lose interest in this forum.

My input to the moderators is that if any newspaper runs its "Letters To The Editor" column with public input, it is the responsibility of those managing such a column to ensure that the quality and variety of the input is such that it is not monopolised by any individual writers "beating the same drum" repeatedly. Rather, the objective should be to provide an open column with variety of opinion from a broad front that appeals to all readers. What would be wrong in such a column is to allow any writer to receive column space every single day with the same message repeated ad nauseam as the overall column would quickly lose broad appeal. Anyone charged with such responsibility in the best interest of the newspaper would not allow this to happen. I think it is time to apply the same kind of moderating to those that are "beating the drum" on the same subject across numerous threads every single day. They are entitled to their point of view. What they should not be entitled to is monopolising and repeating that same view across the majority of threads.

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Ok...so we''ll address this point logically. There are more than a few posters who choose to buck the current trend on this forum by wishing to speak out regarding the appalling state of this club. Remember that it is "our" club...and passions will be expressed in a very diverse way. The "our" defines all of us who bother to contribute to issues affecting Norwich City.....ultimately making us one and the same.

That said....whenever a dissenting voice is raised...there instantly becomes a pack mentality which far from discussing the point, becomes personal and at times quite vitriolic. So...what happens? A string of pro and counter posts ensue.....and the insults come thick and fast. This happened following my very first post....and I soon learned how to stand my ground.

I personally have had whole threads laughingly aimed at me...as has Smudger and Wizard. Who is it then that spawns this particular idea? I suggest it is those who wish to dominate events and ensure they''re own opinions are always to the fore....at the expense of genuine open discussion. I can''t recall any posts by me or another "dissenter" which has been aimed directly at a fellow poster....the same certainly cannot be said of the "other" camp.

Instead of decrying everybody who "dares to be different"....why not try to interact rather than hurl abuse? You could be certain that a rather different atmosphere would then ensue...but if you wish to trade insults...be prepared to take back what you dish out. I''m up for it...as are a few others...so don''t think it cuts any ice and it only really shows a weakness of argument.

Personally I think the banter is harmless fun...and far too many folk take themselves and their opinions much too seriously. Nothing we say on here will come to anything...and will be on page two in hours and thus forgotten. Try to concentrate on issues rather than other posters...and we might just get somewhere....but remember that none of us can force our ideas onto anyone...and we all have every right to say what we think.

I''ve tried to be reasonable...but I don''t doubt a few of my detractors will be "having a go" presently....and then the circle will be duly completed. No-one has "ruined" this forum as you suggest....as everything is cyclical and prone to change. Without argument this place would have an echo....and without the humour the argument brings it would rapidly become a bore.

Make of this what you will....but rest assured that no-one individual owns this space other than Archant....and that being the case...let freedom of speech prevail.

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Excellent points made by Shaun. I am a relatively new poster but have seriously thought about giving up adding my comments.

Being an exile, one of my few ways of getting any feedback from fans about my team is through this forum. A number of times I have typed out replies to various points made but have been too scared to post. I have instead deleted my comments and decided not to post for fear of being ridiculed or criticised for honestly held views and opinoins. Hopefully Shauns post will make me think again.

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[quote user="Evil Monkey"][quote user="ricky knight"]

lets all bury our heads in the sand, hail, queen delia and king grant any dissenters will be banned.

[/quote]

... unfortunately I think it''s going to take even longer to get the Pinkun Message Boards back to the fun and interesting place it used to be.
[/quote]

When was that evil monkey? We had 18 months of W.O. and K.T.F. immediately prior to this. As soon as Worthington was sacked we went straight into a few posters personalised campaign against Delia, which has led to this.

There is very little football discussion on here, I tried at the weekend to discuss the merits of Etuhu but there was no real discussion. Cluck ventured in to make a little joke at me but never takes part in any meaningful football discussion. Ever wondered why that is? Partly it''s because the two main protaginists of the way this messageboard has gone have maybe seen one match between them in the last 18 months. So the football related posts disappear off the front page as they get swamped by more W.O... KTF... Delia is helping herself to money... Chase was God... or whatever other attention seeking rubbish is in fashion for the day.

But having said all that this is still a good messageboard with many interesting posters, people put up with my ramblings without getting too upset with me and I like being part of it.

 

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The initial post on this message board and the reply of Evil Monkey sum up the situation perfectly. No-one wants to see the club where it is at the moment but this endless list of negative and sometimes personal posts makes it a message board that is predictable and not as interesting as it was. I know my own posts have not been as many as others -  by far in some cases - but it is a message board that I no longer look forward to read as I did. More rational arguments please.  

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Whilst I concur with a large part of the sentiment contained within your thread I do none the less strongly believe that wanting to see and end to the reign of the current majority share holders does not make you any less a supporter. 

For many years I’ve being going home and away with a group from BSE on a  weekly basis, all of whom bought shares and all of whom firmly believe it is time for Smith & Jones to depart but none the less are died in the wool Yella’s 

Conversely there are an equal number of posters who seem completely blind to the reality of the management of our club since promotion.  Individuals who  consider their own views as gospel despite never going to games and who didn’t  buy so much as a hundred quids worth of  shares when the club needed our additional financial support.   The self same individuals pour scorn upon anybody who suggest any form of impropriety or incompetence by either the board of directors in general or more specifically the joint majority shareholders. 

Only last Saturday on the way to the game we were discussing the ‘Big’ opinions of some posters on the message board and wonder just exactly how they are able to form such definitive opinions without actually being in receipt of as many facts as possible? 

It cuts both ways

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Thank you Shaun, i agree with you totaly! i''m fed up with the divide among "Fans" taking over a simple harmless thread. just like the thread "does anyone know?", a simple thread for a genuine fan trying to find one of our players success.

Everyone has their own opinion but change the record once in a while.

The only thing that is for sure is that the club is not doing as well as it can (by far) and yes Saturday was one of the worst performances i''ve ever seen, but it isn''t fair on posters when personal slanging matches start taking place between fans on almost every thread with no relation to the initial post!

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well said

as a regular on the wotb, as you say no one can believe the two posters trying to organize a protest. i for one will protest against these muppets next tuesday if i see them on carrow rd shouting thier mouths of at delia

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Good post Shaun. I came on here on Saturday night and some of the posts beggered belief, to the point were I became too dispirited and decided against posting.

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I''m all for free speech but too many posters are resorting to personal arguments and negative comments for the sake of it. If you''re going to post then make it well argued and interesting. Of course with our current predicament there are going to be lots of nagative comments but they can still be well put and argued in an intelligent logical manner. The jibes and insults are getting very tedious especially when it seems posters are trying to score points against each other and get one over on other fans! Not very mature!

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The decline in this message board mirrors the decline in our club.

You have idiots spouting crap on this message board, you have an idiot picking the team at our club.

You have divisions in fans on the message board, you have divisions in the players and manager at the club.

Our club is going one way at the moment...  DOWN

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[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Evil Monkey"][quote user="ricky knight"]

lets all bury our heads in the sand, hail, queen delia and king grant any dissenters will be banned.

[/quote]Good post, Shaun, however I think the above quote -

the first reply to your articulate and well-thought-out post - shows

that it''s going to be a hard job getting these boards back to a place

of reason and healthy debate.  These people

are mostly "clever" in their tactics - they rarely start new threads,

as they know that not as many people will react, but instead "hijack"

other people''s threads and turn interesting posts into arenas for

childish bickering.  And what threads they do start are simply

grounds for their cohorts to applaud and slap each other on the back.
  The result - total coverage of the message boards.It''s

going to take time to turn things around at Norwich, that''s for sure...

unfortunately I think it''s going to take even longer to get the Pinkun

Message Boards back to the fun and interesting place it used to be.[/quote]

mmm words pot, kettle and black spring to mind????

What is this thread and the one aimed at myself that has about 5 pages worth of posts all about???

Both have little to do with football may I suggest and neither were

started by me....   baaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!  [:@]

[/quote]

You''re right, it''s not about football, it''s about some of the stuff you

spount while not really knowing much about it. e.g. The post aimed

toward yourself simply expresses the fact that you persist in slagging

off Doherty and Safri off when you haven''t attended a game to actually

take a look  for a fair while. Stop moaning, stop being so

negative, and get behind the boys. Whether you like the board or not,

not attending games because of them isn''t going to keep us up this

season -  sort it out, and get behind them.

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If it was possible to have a ''post of the week'' i would vote for this without reading any others. It is that Good. Bravo Shaun  

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[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Evil Monkey"][quote user="ricky knight"]

lets all bury our heads in the sand, hail, queen delia and king grant any dissenters will be banned.

[/quote]

Good post, Shaun, however I think the above quote - the first reply to your articulate and well-thought-out post - shows that it''s going to be a hard job getting these boards back to a place of reason and healthy debate.  These people are mostly "clever" in their tactics - they rarely start new threads, as they know that not as many people will react, but instead "hijack" other people''s threads and turn interesting posts into arenas for childish bickering.  And what threads they do start are simply grounds for their cohorts to applaud and slap each other on the back.  The result - total coverage of the message boards.

It''s going to take time to turn things around at Norwich, that''s for sure... unfortunately I think it''s going to take even longer to get the Pinkun Message Boards back to the fun and interesting place it used to be.
[/quote]

mmm words pot, kettle and black spring to mind????

What is this thread and the one aimed at myself that has about 5 pages worth of posts all about???

Both have little to do with football may I suggest and neither were started by me....   baaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!  [:@]

[/quote]

No Smudger: Evil Monkey was correctly commenting on the tactics continually employed by people like you. And this thread is about individuals like you ruining this messageboard for many, many others: not because of disagreeing with them, but because of how you disagree with them. That''s why your appearance on WotB got the derisive response it deserved; and that''s why people are becoming more and more fed up with your astounding arrogance and appallingly bad attitude on here.

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[quote user="cityangel"]

[quote user="Evil Monkey"]

It''s going to take time to turn things around at Norwich, that''s for sure... unfortunately I think it''s going to take even longer to get the Pinkun Message Boards back to the fun and interesting place it used to be.
[/quote]

 

But we will get this message board back to being fun and interesting as it used to be because theres only a few of them and theres a lot more of us.

Smudger, Cluck, Ricky and co will get bored eventually and dissappear, they all do when they''ve had their fun and think they''ve annoyed us enough.

Great post Shaun.

[/quote]

 

right my dad is bigger than yours grow up mate, i have followed city for 40 yrs, so i aint going anywhere, so i will have to keep upsetting the cosy club. I say it as i see it, delia and grant must go to save this club, we need to spend money, successful teams do, so where is the controversy in that. You might not agree, it might annoy you but that is my true belief and as a city fan of 40 yrs, i defend my t to say it.

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[quote user="ricky knight"]this board has declined because the football club have, all you people want is what you want to hear, you are the ones who do not want debate, this is a forum, that means debate, like it or not. I am willing to fight my corner, push my views, please or offend but i will never be a sheep. Also the offensive posts seem to be coming from very people who are complaining, i have been forthright but i deny being offensive.[/quote]

Absolutely Ricky: I''d love to debate all things about the club: bring it on! If you think I''m one of the ''sheep'' you bewilderingly refer to, go read my blog posts or the questions I asked Chris Lakey earlier: I''m as fed up with things and critical as the next man. But of course, you''ve completely missed that - and bizarrely responded to a post imploring a few individuals to just act their age on here for once, and stop ruining it for everybody else by concluding that I wanted everyone to ''bury their heads in the sand and hail queen Delia''. Only you can explain why you responded in this oh so predictable, congratulations-on-completely-proving-my-point way; only you can explain why you chose to treat a post calling for calm and reason by attempting to polarise things yet again.

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[quote user="cityangel"]

[quote user="Evil Monkey"]

It''s going to take time to turn things around at Norwich, that''s for sure... unfortunately I think it''s going to take even longer to get the Pinkun Message Boards back to the fun and interesting place it used to be.
[/quote]

 

But we will get this message board back to being fun and interesting as it used to be because theres only a few of them and theres a lot more of us.

Smudger, Cluck, Ricky and co will get bored eventually and dissappear, they all do when they''ve had their fun and think they''ve annoyed us enough.

Great post Shaun.

[/quote]

Ahh so said the school playgound bully!!!

Don''t think so becuase people like Cluck and myself do not give a monkeys @ss whether we are popular or not...

We state the truth as we see it...  the fact that it gets so many peoples backs up is that what we state is so obviously the truth... 

You know what they say... The truth hurts doesn''t it???

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[quote user="-.-. .-.. ..- -.-. -.-"]

Ok...so we''ll address this point logically. There are more than a few posters who choose to buck the current trend on this forum by wishing to speak out regarding the appalling state of this club. Remember that it is "our" club...and passions will be expressed in a very diverse way. The "our" defines all of us who bother to contribute to issues affecting Norwich City.....ultimately making us one and the same.

That said....whenever a dissenting voice is raised...there instantly becomes a pack mentality which far from discussing the point, becomes personal and at times quite vitriolic. So...what happens? A string of pro and counter posts ensue.....and the insults come thick and fast. This happened following my very first post....and I soon learned how to stand my ground.

I personally have had whole threads laughingly aimed at me...as has Smudger and Wizard. Who is it then that spawns this particular idea? I suggest it is those who wish to dominate events and ensure they''re own opinions are always to the fore....at the expense of genuine open discussion. I can''t recall any posts by me or another "dissenter" which has been aimed directly at a fellow poster....the same certainly cannot be said of the "other" camp.

Instead of decrying everybody who "dares to be different"....why not try to interact rather than hurl abuse? You could be certain that a rather different atmosphere would then ensue...but if you wish to trade insults...be prepared to take back what you dish out. I''m up for it...as are a few others...so don''t think it cuts any ice and it only really shows a weakness of argument.

Personally I think the banter is harmless fun...and far too many folk take themselves and their opinions much too seriously. Nothing we say on here will come to anything...and will be on page two in hours and thus forgotten. Try to concentrate on issues rather than other posters...and we might just get somewhere....but remember that none of us can force our ideas onto anyone...and we all have every right to say what we think.

I''ve tried to be reasonable...but I don''t doubt a few of my detractors will be "having a go" presently....and then the circle will be duly completed. No-one has "ruined" this forum as you suggest....as everything is cyclical and prone to change. Without argument this place would have an echo....and without the humour the argument brings it would rapidly become a bore.

Make of this what you will....but rest assured that no-one individual owns this space other than Archant....and that being the case...let freedom of speech prevail.

[/quote]

Thanks for that Cluck...

This thread is nothing short of yet another personal attack on myself (I know this Shaun Lawson guy has not named any names but all us regular contributors know exactly who he is reffering to).

Maybe there needs to be a whole set of rules put down regarding what can and what can''t be said on here.  Because it really comes to something when it seems that posters can say what the hell they like about me, but when I reply in a manner that is extremely tame compared to what has originally been posted about myself it does not even pass moderation!!!

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