Grant Has Given Us Balls!

[arrdee 2]

Can''t you all understand   that after 6 seasons of  the obligatory 3rd round defeat under dear old nidge ,( can anyone remember Cheltenham 0-3 ?) is it any wonder we are shooting for the stars ? we are all out with the fairies ,we have all come out to dance with the sane and disturbed , 5th round of the FA cup , folks , its like unearthing a glory hole .

[Cluck 0]

.....There are glory holes and glory holes ray.....but I for one will definately not be "coming out" with the fairies"     [;)]

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Red Bull gives you wings and Viagra might give you a new lease of life.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

It''s a pity, Wiz, you haven''t got the balls to enter into a little written joust with old Rudolph. You are no fun anymore, I''m taking my ball home!

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

Maybe.

But, ermm...........

We looked good in August didn''t we? Errr..........4 wins, 1 draw, 1 loss. Under Worthington.

Ahmmmmmmmmmm....................yes, well..............um.

Let''s wait & see a little. Yep. Ermmmmm.........yep.

But ermm................., good luck Peter. Yes, good luck - because we all need a little of that.

Well, well - balls eh?[:-*]

OTBC

 

 

[Hog 0]

wow, we beat Leeds and Blackpool and people are talking about a Revolution. No, we were just saved by Huckerby, again. If he were to get injured, along with Earnie, what would happen to us then Would everyone still be singing PG''s praises. I agree that he has certainly attempted to turn things around, and has bought in some new faces. But I will wait to see what the summer rebuilding is like before I pass judgement. Afterall he is playing with Worthy''s team mainly, and I for one can''t wait to see the back of most of them.

 

[In Dubious Battle 0]

[quote user="Smudger"]

Because somewhere between 17th and 21st place with no new signings of any real quality again in the summer is no way near enough to get me excited I''m afraid!!!

[/quote]Hang on, when have you seen our new signings play? i thought you refused to go to carrow road? is it possible you are judging players ability based on thier price tag and whether or not you''ve heard of them before?

[Yellow Rages 0]

[quote user="Salahuddin"]

wow, we beat Leeds and Blackpool and people are talking about a Revolution. No, we were just saved by Huckerby, again. If he were to get injured, along with Earnie, what would happen to us then Would everyone still be singing PG''s praises. I agree that he has certainly attempted to turn things around, and has bought in some new faces. But I will wait to see what the summer rebuilding is like before I pass judgement. Afterall he is playing with Worthy''s team mainly, and I for one can''t wait to see the back of most of them.

 

[/quote]

Nobody has mentioned a revolution Salahuddin. Just the excitement of a 5th round FA cup tie at Chelsea, that''s all.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="-.-. .-.. ..- -.-. -.-"]

Wiz....I respect your decision to do a complete "U" turn regarding your views....but nothing has changed for me.

[/quote]

Cluck:

In the words of one of my favourite comedy soap characters, ''I shall say this only once''.................

What U'' turn have I done mate?. I''m still anti Delia Smith and the board, and I have said so on this thread several times.

I''m only giving our new manager my total support, who I must add, only has Worthy''s old players to work with (mostly) and little money to buy more with, that''s not a ''U'' turn my friend, thats what ''supporters'' do.

It''s true, that I wasn''t impressed with Grants appointment, and I still think he''s the wrong choice, HOWEVER, to keep using your tactics is counter productive in my opinion, and I worry that some ''fans'' may be singing from a different hym sheet and have dubious intentions for doing so!.

After the Worthy episode, and the misery it caused (to both sides) I''m not prepared to join in anymore ''conflict'' against the club. Its too draining,  I''ve said my piece on that, and I just want to enjoy my footy again.

Grant is our manager, and your posts on here won''t change that, so why not drop the bitterness and gloom and maybe, like me, and thousands of others, give him your total support?.

Yes, I know its a leap of faith mate, but its better than the hurtful and destructive rants at all things City which you are engaged in now.

Yes, things could be better (they always can!) but I''m backing Grant to sort City out. He''s ambitious, and Rome wasn''t built in a day and all that.

So why no join me?, its not painful and you might just enjoy yourself..................I know I''m starting too!.

[Chip20 69]

One or two posters above seem to have misinterpreted Wiz''s comments He doesn''t talk of a ''revolution'' or even quality football. He just observes that we are finally seeing some signs of grit and determination in some of the players. I''m sure most of you will agree that earlier in the season we would have rolled over and waved the white flag after going a goal behind, but it''s just encouraging that the lads seem to at least be trying a bit harder now. I''m now hoping (not ''expecting''...just hoping) that an increase in confidence could gradually improve the quality of football on display.

[Tumbleweed 106]

Wiz- re your post at 10.05 today- well said sir!!

[ricky knight 0]

4 wins in 13 games, excuse me if some of us dont get excited by us beating Leeds and Blackpool, the jury is still very much out as far as i am concerned.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Lincoln Canary"]One or two posters above seem to have misinterpreted Wiz''s comments He doesn''t talk of a ''revolution'' or even quality football. He just observes that we are finally seeing some signs of grit and determination in some of the players. I''m sure most of you will agree that earlier in the season we would have rolled over and waved the white flag after going a goal behind, but it''s just encouraging that the lads seem to at least be trying a bit harder now. I''m now hoping (not ''expecting''...just hoping) that an increase in confidence could gradually improve the quality of football on display.[/quote]

Lincoln Canary said exactly what I meant to say, and in half the words I used too!.

Cheers Lincoln.

[Nobodys Perfect 0]

If Grant has given us ALL balls, I''m off to see the doctor!

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="-.-. .-.. ..- -.-. -.-"]

Wiz....I respect your decision to do a complete "U" turn regarding your views....but nothing has changed for me.

[/quote]

Cluck:

In the words of one of my favourite comedy soap characters, ''I shall say this only once''.................

What U'' turn have I done mate?. I''m still anti Delia Smith and the board, and I have said so on this thread several times.

I''m only giving our new manager my total support, who I must add, only has Worthy''s old players to work with (mostly) and little money to buy more with, that''s not a ''U'' turn my friend, thats what ''supporters'' do.

It''s true, that I wasn''t impressed with Grants appointment, and I still think he''s the wrong choice, HOWEVER, to keep using your tactics is counter productive in my opinion, and I worry that some ''fans'' may be singing from a different hym sheet and have dubious intentions for doing so!.

After the Worthy episode, and the misery it caused (to both sides) I''m not prepared to join in anymore ''conflict'' against the club. Its too draining,  I''ve said my piece on that, and I just want to enjoy my footy again.

Grant is our manager, and your posts on here won''t change that, so why not drop the bitterness and gloom and maybe, like me, and thousands of others, give him your total support?.

Yes, I know its a leap of faith mate, but its better than the hurtful and destructive rants at all things City which you are engaged in now.

Yes, things could be better (they always can!) but I''m backing Grant to sort City out. He''s ambitious, and Rome wasn''t built in a day and all that.

So why no join me?, its not painful and you might just enjoy yourself..................I know I''m starting too!.

[/quote]

Wiz...I''m my own man and make my own decisions based on what my own eyes tell me. Apart from a few jibes...you will not see anywhere that I have demanded Grant be sacked...because I know what the contractual and financial implications of that are.  Nowhere will you see me slagging off individual players (other than Brown)...because I know they are at their limit as "journeyman". I''ve not had a go at Livermore or Duffy..but I still maintain Bryan Gunn being brought in is a PR stunt by this inept Board to "win the restless fans over".

You can do what you choose....and I support anyone who cares to change direction, but toeing the populist line is not what I do. I''ve seen nothing to convince me that anything has changed from the time when you were posting provocative threads...other than the close of the transfer window. For me it will take far more than being packed on on here to change my views....as they are based on what I see on matchdays.....not on what other folks may say.

Remaining realistic is neither destructive nor hurtful to others....and as I''ve said before, I don''t really care who disagrees with me or how unpopular my words may be. You may well be happy with your new found position and newly acquired "friends"....but I''ll stay the course in trying to put an alternative point forward based on 45 years of support.....not on how others perceive me.

NCFC is only a part of my otherwise busy and contented lifestyle....and while the beatings on here may have "drained" you....it goes straight over my head. I''ll let the "that''s what supporters do" jibe pass too....because in my book there is no such thing as a "archetypal" supporter....other than a sharing of interest....so please spare me that one.

Good luck in your new direction....and let''s just hope it all comes right in the end for NCFC........

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="-.-. .-.. ..- -.-. -.-"]

Wiz...I''m my own man and make my own decisions based on what my own eyes tell me. Apart from a few jibes...you will not see anywhere that I have demanded Grant be sacked...because I know what the contractual and financial implications of that are.  Nowhere will you see me slagging off individual players (other than Brown)...because I know they are at their limit as "journeyman". I''ve not had a go at Livermore or Duffy..but I still maintain Bryan Gunn being brought in is a PR stunt by this inept Board to "win the restless fans over".

You can do what you choose....and I support anyone who cares to change direction, but toeing the populist line is not what I do. I''ve seen nothing to convince me that anything has changed from the time when you were posting provocative threads...other than the close of the transfer window. For me it will take far more than being packed on on here to change my views....as they are based on what I see on matchdays.....not on what other folks may say.

Remaining realistic is neither destructive nor hurtful to others....and as I''ve said before, I don''t really care who disagrees with me or how unpopular my words may be. You may well be happy with your new found position and newly acquired "friends"....but I''ll stay the course in trying to put an alternative point forward based on 45 years of support.....not on how others perceive me.

NCFC is only a part of my otherwise busy and contented lifestyle....and while the beatings on here may have "drained" you....it goes straight over my head. I''ll let the "that''s what supporters do" jibe pass too....because in my book there is no such thing as a "archetypal" supporter....other than a sharing of interest....so please spare me that one.

Good luck in your new direction....and let''s just hope it all comes right in the end for NCFC........

[/quote]

I''m sure Wiz doesn''t need me to stick up for him here (and I can''t quite believe I''m doing it!) but I can''t help but feel that you''ve misunderstood his post somewhat.

He never said that the beatings drained him, just that he found the conflict against the club draining. You seem to be suggesting that he''s changed his mind because he was upset about people disagreeing with him and is now revelling in a mutual back slapping session with his new found friends. I know you like to set yourself up as a maverick who doesn''t care what other people think, but to be honest I think you owe him an apology for that. He''s not changed his mind on many of the things you two have previously agreed on, he''s jus tsaying that Grant has given us fresh impetus since the closing of the transfer window. I happen to agree, and surely you must have seen some improvement in the last two performances.

Oh, and the definition of ''journeyman'' does not really apply to Fotheringham, Marshall or Lappin does it. Surely you''re not attempting to spin the truth Cluck!

[macdougalls perm 0]

Cluck,

This is not a jibe, I am just pointing something out. I think that you should remember that ''reality'' is whatever an individual chooses to believe about any given situation. Some of your posts do make valid points but I think that you put people off by insisting that your point of view is ''reality''. It just comes across as jaw-dropping arrogance. Reality is totally subjective, there is always another point of view. And in our current situation there are simply too many variables (both good and bad) to identify ''realists'' from ''fantasists''. 

Anyway, no offence, like I said, I just wanted to point that out.

  

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="Shack Attack"][quote user="-.-. .-.. ..- -.-. -.-"]

Wiz...I''m my own man and make my own decisions based on what my own eyes tell me. Apart from a few jibes...you will not see anywhere that I have demanded Grant be sacked...because I know what the contractual and financial implications of that are.  Nowhere will you see me slagging off individual players (other than Brown)...because I know they are at their limit as "journeyman". I''ve not had a go at Livermore or Duffy..but I still maintain Bryan Gunn being brought in is a PR stunt by this inept Board to "win the restless fans over".

You can do what you choose....and I support anyone who cares to change direction, but toeing the populist line is not what I do. I''ve seen nothing to convince me that anything has changed from the time when you were posting provocative threads...other than the close of the transfer window. For me it will take far more than being packed on on here to change my views....as they are based on what I see on matchdays.....not on what other folks may say.

Remaining realistic is neither destructive nor hurtful to others....and as I''ve said before, I don''t really care who disagrees with me or how unpopular my words may be. You may well be happy with your new found position and newly acquired "friends"....but I''ll stay the course in trying to put an alternative point forward based on 45 years of support.....not on how others perceive me.

NCFC is only a part of my otherwise busy and contented lifestyle....and while the beatings on here may have "drained" you....it goes straight over my head. I''ll let the "that''s what supporters do" jibe pass too....because in my book there is no such thing as a "archetypal" supporter....other than a sharing of interest....so please spare me that one.

Good luck in your new direction....and let''s just hope it all comes right in the end for NCFC........

[/quote]

I''m sure Wiz doesn''t need me to stick up for him here (and I can''t quite believe I''m doing it!) but I can''t help but feel that you''ve misunderstood his post somewhat.

He never said that the beatings drained him, just that he found the conflict against the club draining. You seem to be suggesting that he''s changed his mind because he was upset about people disagreeing with him and is now revelling in a mutual back slapping session with his new found friends. I know you like to set yourself up as a maverick who doesn''t care what other people think, but to be honest I think you owe him an apology for that. He''s not changed his mind on many of the things you two have previously agreed on, he''s jus tsaying that Grant has given us fresh impetus since the closing of the transfer window. I happen to agree, and surely you must have seen some improvement in the last two performances.

Oh, and the definition of ''journeyman'' does not really apply to Fotheringham, Marshall or Lappin does it. Surely you''re not attempting to spin the truth Cluck!

[/quote]

Well Shack...what have you done but "spin" the post to your particular standpoint? Maybe Wiz will come on now to support your angle...but the way I read it, it refers to his "negative" comments on this forum towards the club and the "draining" this causes.  This is the whole problem with "spin"....as it can have a multitude of meanings other than the one intended.....and according to the individuals'' particular angle on things. Wiz can do exactly as he wants...as can we all....and as far as an apology.....you must be havin'' a laugh........

Oh....and yes the definition of "journeyman" very definately applies to those new signings mentioned...as I''ve not seen anything to the contrary as yet. It all depends on whether you see NCFC from a "Millwall" type standpoint....in which case they are excellent.....but if you come from a more ambitious angle....they are nowhere near Premiership promotion quality. Maybe too many supporters have lowered their sights too far.

Finally....I have not "set" myself up as anything Shack.... I just do what I do and say what I say....and it''s got me quite safely through life so far. Strange though how Wiz got endlessly hammered for changing his mind to an opposite view to the crowd....yet when he changes his mind to agree with the crowd....that''s somehow ok.

I''m cool....and as you quite rightly observe.......I really don''t care what opinions other folks have....as long as in the long term the club itself survives and prospers. Opinions are there to be argued with....and without this....this place would be even more of a "group hug" than it is now.

 

 

 

[Canary02 0]

 

I for one would like to extend a big hug to Cluck.

 

 

 

[Cluck 0]

MacsPerm......

I don''t think we should confuse "arrogance" with "defiance" here....but overall you raise some good points.

Try to understand though that from the word go on here I was in a small minority regarding opinion. It would have been all too easy to back away or capitulate to become part of the "crowd"...but I have consistently stuck to my "realistic" standpoint while at the same time regularly conceding to good argument.

The fact that this is a Norwich City fans forum...it would naturally attract the more "pro" element rather than those wishing to expose more testing issues. I accept that...but in the pub on a matchday the opinions are very much more loaded in the opposite "camp"....and I guess the term "realist" reflects this aspect rather than as you suggest, calling other posters on here "fantasists"......

Of course I''m interested in the opinions of others expressed on here, otherwise there would be little point contributing...but when it becomes personal...or asides are directly pointed another poster I''m afraid I switch off. So from this aspect...no I don''t give a toss about what is said and such nonsense sails way over my head.

I trust this may clarify my definition of "realism"....and agree that if viewed wrongly (as if I were claiming my opinion as being "definitive")....you would have a point....but put in the context of bringing my "everyday" pub/work/social conversations along to this forum, maybe the transfer of "real" to "virtual" doesn''t always transmit  well.

We''ve had our little "ding dongs" along the way and no doubt will again....but remember that just as you are passionate about your position...those who think differently feel just the same. That surely is what keeps this place going isn''t it?            [:)]

 

[nutty nigel 7,533]

I think the reality is that cluck doesn''t want to give wiz kisses anymore [W] [U] [:''(]

 

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="-.-. .-.. ..- -.-. -.-"][quote user="Shack Attack"][quote user="-.-. .-.. ..- -.-. -.-"]

Wiz...I''m my own man and make my own decisions based on what my own eyes tell me. Apart from a few jibes...you will not see anywhere that I have demanded Grant be sacked...because I know what the contractual and financial implications of that are.  Nowhere will you see me slagging off individual players (other than Brown)...because I know they are at their limit as "journeyman". I''ve not had a go at Livermore or Duffy..but I still maintain Bryan Gunn being brought in is a PR stunt by this inept Board to "win the restless fans over".

You can do what you choose....and I support anyone who cares to change direction, but toeing the populist line is not what I do. I''ve seen nothing to convince me that anything has changed from the time when you were posting provocative threads...other than the close of the transfer window. For me it will take far more than being packed on on here to change my views....as they are based on what I see on matchdays.....not on what other folks may say.

Remaining realistic is neither destructive nor hurtful to others....and as I''ve said before, I don''t really care who disagrees with me or how unpopular my words may be. You may well be happy with your new found position and newly acquired "friends"....but I''ll stay the course in trying to put an alternative point forward based on 45 years of support.....not on how others perceive me.

NCFC is only a part of my otherwise busy and contented lifestyle....and while the beatings on here may have "drained" you....it goes straight over my head. I''ll let the "that''s what supporters do" jibe pass too....because in my book there is no such thing as a "archetypal" supporter....other than a sharing of interest....so please spare me that one.

Good luck in your new direction....and let''s just hope it all comes right in the end for NCFC........

[/quote]

I''m sure Wiz doesn''t need me to stick up for him here (and I can''t quite believe I''m doing it!) but I can''t help but feel that you''ve misunderstood his post somewhat.

He never said that the beatings drained him, just that he found the conflict against the club draining. You seem to be suggesting that he''s changed his mind because he was upset about people disagreeing with him and is now revelling in a mutual back slapping session with his new found friends. I know you like to set yourself up as a maverick who doesn''t care what other people think, but to be honest I think you owe him an apology for that. He''s not changed his mind on many of the things you two have previously agreed on, he''s jus tsaying that Grant has given us fresh impetus since the closing of the transfer window. I happen to agree, and surely you must have seen some improvement in the last two performances.

Oh, and the definition of ''journeyman'' does not really apply to Fotheringham, Marshall or Lappin does it. Surely you''re not attempting to spin the truth Cluck!

[/quote]

Well Shack...what have you done but "spin" the post to your particular standpoint? Maybe Wiz will come on now to support your angle...but the way I read it, it refers to his "negative" comments on this forum towards the club and the "draining" this causes.  This is the whole problem with "spin"....as it can have a multitude of meanings other than the one intended.....and according to the individuals'' particular angle on things. Wiz can do exactly as he wants...as can we all....and as far as an apology.....you must be havin'' a laugh........

Oh....and yes the definition of "journeyman" very definately applies to those new signings mentioned...as I''ve not seen anything to the contrary as yet. It all depends on whether you see NCFC from a "Millwall" type standpoint....in which case they are excellent.....but if you come from a more ambitious angle....they are nowhere near Premiership promotion quality. Maybe too many supporters have lowered their sights too far.

Finally....I have not "set" myself up as anything Shack.... I just do what I do and say what I say....and it''s got me quite safely through life so far. Strange though how Wiz got endlessly hammered for changing his mind to an opposite view to the crowd....yet when he changes his mind to agree with the crowd....that''s somehow ok.

I''m cool....and as you quite rightly observe.......I really don''t care what opinions other folks have....as long as in the long term the club itself survives and prospers. Opinions are there to be argued with....and without this....this place would be even more of a "group hug" than it is now.

[/quote]

Fair enough Cluck, I guess the only person who can confirm whether I''m ''spinning'' is Wiz himself. You''re the one who seems to be suggesting that he''s changed his opinion so he can join inn the big group hug on here that only you and a few other ''realists'' are excluded from. I happen to believe that he''s more likely to have changed his mind about PG because he''s seen genuinne cause for optimism.

Please have a think about how the term ''journeyman'' tends to get used in football. Steve Claridge always used to get described as a ''journeyman striker'', not because he was never any good but because he played for about 748 different clubs! Our new signings are not journeymen and you do yourself no credit by describinng them as thus.

[macdougalls perm 0]

Point taken. Yes, I agree that you are defiant and not arrogant, I was saying that insisting that you are the only one who can see reality makes you seem arrogant. As I said its perfectly possible that your fears about the club are well founded, all any of us can go on is hearsay - I''m not sure any of us knows for a fact what goes on in meetings etc at Carrow Road. I was just pointing out that it is just as possible to describe us as a team who had a disastrously demoralising relegation from the Premiership and a manager who had run out of ideas and wasted a ton of our money on some poor players. From that perspective, it is possible to see Grant undertaking the task of rebuilding our squad on obviously limited resources and, though its way too early to tell, not doing a bad job of it so far.

But, as you say, both of our ''realities'' are equally valid and are what keeps this board going.    

[ron obvious 1,502]

macdougall''s perm wrote

[quote]

Cluck,

This is not a jibe, I am just pointing something out. I think that you should remember that ''reality'' is whatever an individual chooses to believe about any given situation. Some of your posts do make valid points but I think that you put people off by insisting that your point of view is ''reality''. It just comes across as jaw-dropping arrogance. Reality is totally subjective, there is always another point of view. And in our current situation there are simply too many variables (both good and bad) to identify ''realists'' from ''fantasists''. 

Anyway, no offence, like I said, I just wanted to point that out.

  

[/quote]

Ermm... sorry to take issue with you on this one, but surely the whole basis of scientific rationality is that there is only one, totally objective reality? My perspective is that we all have a working model of whatever objective reality is, which enables us to survive in it. If it''s a really bad one you can end up locked up (or dead).

Anyway, I know what you mean (I think!) - it''s the individual''s "reality model" you''re talking about. Cluck''s insistence that he alone knows the absolute truth about reality is what makes him arrogant. It''s the same with religious fundamentalists.

Of course this is all only my opinion! Before I''m accused of arrogance ...

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="-.-. .-.. ..- -.-. -.-"][quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="-.-. .-.. ..- -.-. -.-"]

Wiz....I respect your decision to do a complete "U" turn regarding your views....but nothing has changed for me.

[/quote]

Cluck:

In the words of one of my favourite comedy soap characters, ''I shall say this only once''.................

What U'' turn have I done mate?. I''m still anti Delia Smith and the board, and I have said so on this thread several times.

I''m only giving our new manager my total support, who I must add, only has Worthy''s old players to work with (mostly) and little money to buy more with, that''s not a ''U'' turn my friend, thats what ''supporters'' do.

It''s true, that I wasn''t impressed with Grants appointment, and I still think he''s the wrong choice, HOWEVER, to keep using your tactics is counter productive in my opinion, and I worry that some ''fans'' may be singing from a different hym sheet and have dubious intentions for doing so!.

After the Worthy episode, and the misery it caused (to both sides) I''m not prepared to join in anymore ''conflict'' against the club. Its too draining,  I''ve said my piece on that, and I just want to enjoy my footy again.

Grant is our manager, and your posts on here won''t change that, so why not drop the bitterness and gloom and maybe, like me, and thousands of others, give him your total support?.

Yes, I know its a leap of faith mate, but its better than the hurtful and destructive rants at all things City which you are engaged in now.

Yes, things could be better (they always can!) but I''m backing Grant to sort City out. He''s ambitious, and Rome wasn''t built in a day and all that.

So why no join me?, its not painful and you might just enjoy yourself..................I know I''m starting too!.

[/quote]

 

You may well be happy with your new found position and newly acquired "friends"....but I''ll stay the course in trying to put an alternative point forward based on 45 years of support.....not on how others perceive me.

 

[/quote]

Cluck:

After 50 years of active support, I''m my own man, I never post to be popular or make friends on here, be they old or new, I thought that was evidently clear to all...............even you!.     

My  ''thats what supporters do'' quote was not a dig at you or anyone else, but fact..............we support.  If you took it otherwise then that speaks volumes!

But I''m starting to get a little tired of fans who rubbish the players and manager on here, and NEVER post positive things.

I''m sorry Cluck, but if the club is that bad why stay with it mate?.

You say you''ll stay the course, what course is that?, when we fold? so you can glory in you being proved right.

Yes, I''ve had a simular attitude to you in the past, and on some things we still share the same concerns on how the club is run, I won''t deny it, but unlike you, I reconise and appreciate when people are busting their guts on my behalf!

You''ve rubbished our victories, you''ve rubbished our players and staff,  I can''t follow that path no more, sorry.  And I''ve said that for my benefit and no one elses! 

[macdougalls perm 0]

Don''t get me started on scientific rationality....[:)] I certainly don''t know how you''d go about proving the existence of an objective reality. And I think that you''ll find that demonstrable and empirical proof is also ''the'' or ''a'' basis of scientific rationality[;)]. 

[hogesar 9,658]

Best post ive read from you cluck! Spot on, and im in the exact same position as you.

[ca 1]

I''m liking this new positive Wizard, but then I always liked him anyway [:D]

[ron obvious 1,502]

McDP said

[quote]

Don''t get me started on scientific rationality....[:)] I certainly don''t know how you''d go about proving the existence of an objective reality. And I think that you''ll find that demonstrable and empirical proof is also ''the'' or ''a'' basis of scientific rationality[;)]. 

[/quote]

That''s the problem - you cannot prove the existence of objective reality; however, it is the assumption on which empirical proof is based. The belief is that there exists a reality, independent of individual consciousness, which can be observed so as to form theories about its behaviour. The enormous success of empirical science leads us to believe that the underlying assumption (objective reality) is correct. Nevertheless it remains an assumption.

Sorry, I''d better stop now. I realise a footie forum is not the place for this sort of discussion ( it apparently gets right up people''s noses). Just fascinates me though.

OTBC!

[macdougalls perm 0]

I assume you''re talking about the nunc stans. And yes, you''re right, better give it a rest - not footy, but it is interesting[:)].