Should there be limits on the number of foreign players in a team?

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

One of the very few points that I agree with Platini on, is that I believe the number of foreign players in teams should be limited.

This should be limited to a maximum of 5 foreign players for each team.  A maximum of 5 out of the 11 players on the pitch.

Having watched supposed Chelsea and Arsenal teams over the last couple of years featuring on occassion not one English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish man is ridiculous.  Have they not just become international teams, and could be renamed as a Wenger world 11 versus a Mourinho world 11?

I also feel this is ruining the game in England especially.  Not only does it make competition nigh on impossible if you don''t have the spending power of the top 6 in the premiership (having said that West Ham and Charlton are spending big now), it also limits the number of home grown players coming through.

Where as in the past you would have young home grown talent coming through regularly, managers at the "big" clubs now seem as if they prefer to go out and buy a goal scorer in their team, than give the 19 year old who has been scoring for the reserves a chance.

If things continue the way they are, I am not looking forward to seeing what the England national team will become in ten years time.

This is not sour grapes, in that I support a relatively small club with limited finances.  I would hate it, if I ever saw a Norwich team run out at Carrow Road without a single player from one of the home nations.

It also makes the hopes of let a lone competing, but surviving in the Premier league, for any newly supported sides, virtually impossible.  Will we ever see the likes of Wimbledon and Coventry winning the cup again or Norwich finishing third in the Premier league?

I don''t know if this law/rule could be re-introduced or not?  I don''t agree that the top few teams from each country should be allowed to break away and form a super league, so I don''t know what the solution would be?  They could perhaps stop premiership teams from competing in the league cup, but that wouldn''t really solve anything either.

I also think a champions league place should be given to the winners of the FA cup, to stop the ridiculous situations of teams wanting to withdraw from it and virtually throwing games by fielding their youth team.  But thats another story.

Thoughts please,

Should there be limits on the number of foreign players? Yes or No - make your answer as long as you like.

[Yellow Rose of Texas 0]

Such action is probably illegal. I believe that European Community employment rules permit any EC member country resident to work in any other EC country. So you could limit non-EC players (they already need a work visa) but I think that''s it.

I do think that the sooner the top 5 Superclubs break away to form their own Euroleague the better. Let them and their American owners set up their football (soccer) equivalant of the NFL in Europe, and let the rest of us enjoy competitive national leagues, the FA cup etc etc. All the advantage of the Premier League monies go to the players and agents and maybe owners anyway - its not like the majority of fans benefit from all of that money sloshing around. And while we are at it lets dump that stupid transfer window too. Maybe that''s also unenforceable under EC rules if it is tested in court.

[Huddy 0]

I think this in the long term would benefit the english national team by giving more players more of a chance. I  don''t think anything radical is needed because you still want the premiership to be the best league in  the world in order to keep and test your best players, but i cannot see a problem with enforcing perhaps 1 or 2 home grown players and a minimum of around 4 english or british players in the team. This could be increased as you get lower down the leagues, making clubs play youngsters, impriving them and saving money on foreign imports as all clubs would be in the same boat.

Most Clubs wouldnt find this too difficult, sides such as Man UTd (fletcher, giggs, scholes, richardson, neville) and Aston Villa (Ridgewell, Cahill, Moore, Agbonlahor) have enough academy grown players as well as other english players such as Rooney, Ferdinand and Asley yong, barry etc. This wouldnt week er the game, as you see foreign imports playing in the premiership alot of the time just because they are cheaper thanbritish players and some clubs (norwich included) are scared 2 give them a try.

[Rethinking the future 0]

The authorities are cautious about introducing such a rule as it would almost certainly be seen as unlawful due to restriction of trade.

Such a rule would also affect Norwich quite badly. If you look at our current squad, a lot come from Scotland, Ireland and Wales which are all seen by the football authorities as separate countries due to them having their own seat on the football executive.

The reason each country has their own seat was originally to give England more power in decisions.

There is a problem with the lack of English footballers in the premiership which is one reason why we will struggle to ever win a major tournament, but the sad fact is that tv money is the reason why a team like Norwich will ever finish in the top 3 again.

[GJP 79]

Personally I don''t have much of a problem with foreign players in English teams.

At the moment the standard of club football in this country is very high and our national team has a very strong squad.

The likes of Rooney, Walcott, Huddlestone and Lennon etc also suggest that we''ve got a lot of high quality young talent on the way.

People say too many foreign players will hinder the development of young English players but if they''re good enough then they''ll be ok and force themselves into the team.

I think everything is fine the way it is.

[7rew 0]

definately not the champs league place for the FA cup the big 4 would complain bitterly for seedings, and you may as well start it at the semi final phase.I don''t think it would work limiting the number of foreign players on a team, the prices for english players would get even more stupid than they are now. The main problem is the spending power that the large teams have. Limiting foreign players wouldn''t stop managers going out and buying a proven goal scorer, just mean that they buy an english one. This in tern would make it even harder to compete with the big four since they would have brough all best english players, the rest of the prem would now have money to spend and would buy up the next best players. Championship clubs would get money for their good/above average english players, but be left with players currently in leagues one and two (and not the good ones) or old english has-beens.  The Championship would also not be able to attract foreign players to our teams, certainly not good/young/hugry players since those are here now trying to break into the premiership.With the Arsenal thing the prices for english players is why arsenal hardly have any english men. Walcott for example cost 5 mill with 7 mill addons and Fabregas (a much better player) cost 1 mill inc addons at a similar age. I would certainly prefer the second price if I were anyone but the selling club.A better way to increase competition in the premiership would be to have a salary cap over the entire league, this would allow smaller teams to hold onto good players since they would be able to pay them higher wages. This would in turn pressurise the big teams to make better use of their acadamy players (who have lower wages) a majority of which are british.The way to improve English players is to pay some attention to technique, fitness and tactics from a young age rather than just hoping that skill will show itself, this is why Brazil produces so many good footballers. Imagine how good Rooney or Gerrard would be if they had proper tuition and fitness from a young age.  There are english players with talent, but none have world class touch or tactical awareness of ronaldinho or kaka or cafu or adriano or carlos or ....To improve the England Team we could stop choosing the team based on who plays for the big four followed by some others to make up the numbers.

[The Voice of the Thorpe Area 0]

Although I''d love to see a limit on foriegner''s, I''d like to see salary caps more! The money that Prem players earn is un-ethical when you consider what conditions some people in the world are living in.

A salary cap might also put off foriegn players from playing here... Thoughts?

[can u sit down please 0]

personally i couldnt care if we had a  squad full of jonny foreigners as long as we were successful!

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

I''d never thought about a salary cap really, that would be a good way they could look at making things more competitive.

I don''t really agree with putting other players in to the England squad to make up the numbers.  Is this not similar to what Don Revvie tried, dropping people like Emlyn Hughes, and we all know how poor the England team was under his stewardship.  A bit of an aside, but I still think it is a scandal that Keegan didn''t get more games for England.

I just think the FA, UEFA  or whoever should do something to try and even things out abit.  Similarly in comparison to what they have in F1, limits on engine size, tyres, technology etc.  I just think the big four or five would kick up such a stink, however if any of them ever fell on hard times, they would probably soon change their attitude.

[Cluck 0]

I reckon one foreigner each....and strictly English managers for all English clubs........[Y]

 

[7rew 0]

The players aren''t the ones to actually "make up the numbers" they are people like darren bent, andrew johnson {I wouldn''t pick these two just for being who they are, but they were good strikers in the prem}, aaron lennon etc who england seem not to want to pick, while they pick people who just happen to play for united or liverpool (in particular) who aren''t necessarily any good, such as phil neville (when at united) etc.

[Huddy 0]

Surely there is a simple solution to the EU trade rights, instead of limiting foreign players in your squad, you can mimit foreign playersa actually in the 11 or 15. Thus, there are no restrictions on buying foreign players, clubs can still buy them at their own will but will only be able to use a certain amouint of them for 1 game, with points deductions for teams who break the rule. There surely cannot be an EU Law which would prevent you from limiting foreign players in a team, because you would still be paying there wages.

Then this in turn, would make clubs think twice about buying foreigners who cant all play, benefiting home grown players.

[Alex Moss 2,165]

The wage thing drives me mad, I can appreciate it''s a short career but the money that the likes of Shevchenko, Ballack and Lampard are on is ridiculous, infact 6 weeks work is all that''s needed of their ''short careers'' to set them up very comfortably for life. If there was a wage cap it would certainly even things out better between clubs I think. As for the amount of foreign players allowed, I think their should be a cap on that too, as previously mentioned it''s a shame to see some teams playing with not 1 Englishmen in the first 11!...I suppose we should really look to the Dutch and their policy of raising the kids on far smaller pitches with more players, thus improving their skill etc...May actually mean we''d be able to nurture our own Van Basten''s and Bergkamp''s.

[Kolin Kob 0]

[quote user="Matt Hudson"]

I think this in the long term would benefit the english national team by giving more players more of a chance. I  don''t think anything radical is needed because you still want the premiership to be the best league in  the world in order to keep and test your best players, but i cannot see a problem with enforcing perhaps 1 or 2 home grown players and a minimum of around 4 english or british players in the team. This could be increased as you get lower down the leagues, making clubs play youngsters, impriving them and saving money on foreign imports as all clubs would be in the same boat.

Most Clubs wouldnt find this too difficult, sides such as Man UTd (fletcher, giggs, scholes, richardson, neville) and Aston Villa (Ridgewell, Cahill, Moore, Agbonlahor) have enough academy grown players as well as other english players such as Rooney, Ferdinand and Asley yong, barry etc. This wouldnt week er the game, as you see foreign imports playing in the premiership alot of the time just because they are cheaper thanbritish players and some clubs (norwich included) are scared 2 give them a try.

[/quote]

I doubt it would personally. The likes of Lampard, Gerrard, Joe Cole, Rooney, Ferdinand etc etc have learnt so much from playing with foreign players, and would only be half the players they are today if they were playing in predominately british teams. It means they understand the way football is played in places other than the uk.

[Kolin Kob 0]

[quote user="-.-. .-.. ..- -.-. -.-"]

I reckon one foreigner each....and strictly English managers for all English clubs........[Y]

 

[/quote]

utterly implausible and ridiculous in this day and age. its time we accepted that we live in a globalised world now.

[Strangers All 0]

I can see where you''re coming from, but I can''t agree... I''d much rather pay to see the current Arsenal team play, than most ''English'' teams.  Further, would we allow scotsmen, the welsh, & irish count as British or semi-foreign (whatever that may be), play in England?  A team with only Fleck OR Gunn would be lesser... then again, there''d be a shortage of English players, and we would currently be scraping a squad from the likes of Rotherham, Crewe & Accrington Stanley.  Hucks, Earnie & Dion at Norwich in a no-foreigner league?  No chance.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="-.-. .-.. ..- -.-. -.-"]

I reckon one foreigner each....and strictly English managers for all English clubs........[Y]

[/quote]

Ahem. How do you define English?

OTBC

 

 

[whoareyou? 0]

A limit on the number of foreign players on the pitch at any one time is the only way forward. It''s not a restarint of trade because you can have as many in your squad as you feel fit but must have say 6 english players on the pitch at any one time.

For every Henry, Zola etc..there are probably 5 foreign has-beens and money takers. And as for players like Ballack and Shevchenko, well no one can tell me they are worth half their transfer fee or wages.

The money involved will eventually kill the game as we know it. We are heading for exhibition football only with little competitiveness and you could argue we are already there with those 4 games in London last night!

These big foreign investors are in it for one thing only...making more money. Anyone who thinks differently is sadly deluded!

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="-.-. .-.. ..- -.-. -.-"]

I reckon one foreigner each....and strictly English managers for all English clubs........[Y]

[/quote]

Ahem. How do you define English?

OTBC

 

 

[/quote]

Non Peter Grantish?.........[;)]

[Shack Attack 0]

It''s an argument that crops up from time to time but I''ve never been fully convinced that it will benefit young English players or the English national team. If it''s not going to be of any benefit to those groups then there''s no point in introducing it other than to satisfy the xenophopes who think that all of the problems in the English game can be solved by "getting rid of them cheating foreigners".

For instance, in the 70''s there were hardly any foreing players in the English league, but England''s performances in the World Cup were pretty awful (1970 - QF, although they were beaten by just about the best team ever, 1974 & 1978 - did not qualify).

At the same time I can''t see how a limit on foreign players would improve our young English players. It would give them more opportunities undoubtably, but would it improve them as players? In a world where most young players seem to think they''ve made it after playing a half a dozen games in the top flight, how is making things even easier going to motivate them to become better players? Like I said, making our players better has to be the goal of any such measures, not just attempting to make our game more ''English'' again.

If we want to improve our players, and ultimately improve our national team''s chances in major tournaments, we need to completely overhaul the coaching in this country. Somebody else mentioned Cesc Fabregas on this thread, next time Arsenal play watch him very closely. When was the last time you saw a young English player with that amount of confidence on the ball, always willing to receive a pass no matter how tight a situation he finds himself in? Our kids need to be taught possesion football at an early age and to have it rammed home that giving the ball away is the ultimate sin on a football pitch. Our type of football is more territorial, so players are encouraged to run the channels and pin teams back in their own third of the pitch, which undoubtably makes it more exciting to watch. Unfortunately I just can''t see this type of high tempo game ever winning a major tournament again.

I also thought it was against EU rules to limit employment oppurtunities for other EU members. But seeing as our government put caps on the number of Bulgarians and Romanians able to work in the UK when they joined the EU I guess that''s not a valid argument anymore?

[Kolin Kob 0]

[quote user="whoareyou"]

A limit on the number of foreign players on the pitch at any one time is the only way forward. It''s not a restarint of trade because you can have as many in your squad as you feel fit but must have say 6 english players on the pitch at any one time.

For every Henry, Zola etc..there are probably 5 foreign has-beens and money takers. And as for players like Ballack and Shevchenko, well no one can tell me they are worth half their transfer fee or wages.

The money involved will eventually kill the game as we know it. We are heading for exhibition football only with little competitiveness and you could argue we are already there with those 4 games in London last night!

These big foreign investors are in it for one thing only...making more money. Anyone who thinks differently is sadly deluded!

[/quote]

And for every 5 foreign has-beens and money-takers there are 5 english has-beens and money-takers too!

[mbncfc 1]

Ultimately, the changes made to the game over the last 15 years or so are almost irreversable (a bit like the film - fire extinguishers and all...)

A foreigner rule will not be legislatively possible anymore, and in fairness would only have a limited affect of the game now.

However, a salary cap progressively linked to the money a club earns from gate receipts or something similar would really bring back the competitiveness of football.

Sadly, that is never going to happen... football is already a business. There is no point delluding ourselves that it is anything else...

[Saint Canary 0]

I have no problem with foreign players and disagree they hold young English players back.  Club''s are always on the lookout for good, young English talent and Mourinho always states he needs a good English spine in his team to be a success. 

Ashley Cole broke through at Arsenal dislodging Silvinho and Van Bronkhurst to do so.  It may have been harder for him but surely that benefitted him in the long run.  I am sure Walcott will learn more from Henry than he would have done at Arsenal 15 years ago playing with Alan Smith.

Dennis Wise always said he felt players like Zola extended his career (could be a bad thing) by leading the way in terms of diet etc.  These changes

There are so many examples of how foreign players have bettered the English league.  The only time they have worsened our game is when our club have allowed players to come here for a pay day.  There is an English mentality that needs to change for us to have a better national side and foreign players show the way.  As a nation our football has far too long been about stamina, pace, power over technique and ability.  That is why we have so many midfielders who lack creativity, awarness and skill.  That is why we have so many good centre backs but only one player or two players with the ability of Joe Cole and Rooney to run with the ball and create. How many other national sides would have allowed Carlton Palmer to play more games than Matt Le Tisser because he didn''t track back?  Brazil always find a way to play their best offensive players and it has stood them in good.  English football has problems that run much deeper than foreign imports.

Having said all that though we do need to stop the influx of so many bog standard players coming from abroad.  No one can deny what the likes of Bergkamp, Cantona, Henry etc have brought to our game but you just can''t see what the likes of De Ward have done other than extract money from lower league sides.  Surely there are British players that are that bad as well?

[Huddy 0]

2 Points that have emerged that i would like to comment on.

Somebody said thay they would rather watch the current arsenal, than an arsenal with some british players. In the Long term though, with slight restrictions thee current arsenal team could have english players in it because clubs would focus on developing them more.

Someone also said that one of the reasons we have the likes of rooney, lampard, etc is because they''ve grown up playing with foreign players. Yes, probably has benefitted them, but not many people would want to stop this. Limiting a starting 11 to perhaps innitially 8/9 foreigners would help grow english players  but you could still easily keep the henry''s, ronaldo''s, toure''s drogba''s etc etc. I don''t particularly think a salary cap is the answer, i just believe it would throw up too many problems. I mean, just getting rid of the foreigners who are in the premiership when english players could do a job. You look at clubs like Bolton, they have hatfuls of foreigners but how many of them actually make a huge difference. Stopping an influx of these ones, not the woorld stars which we do need to keep would benfit us i''m sure.

[In Dubious Battle 0]

[quote user="-.-. .-.. ..- -.-. -.-"]

I reckon one foreigner each....and strictly English managers for all English clubs........[Y]

 

[/quote]You are joking? personally i couldn''t care less how many ''foreigners''  play in our league, i don''t consider myself to be english or british i''m a citizen of the world as we all are, why should we be defined by state borders, for example youseff safri was born in morrocco it doesn''t make him an alien why should he be restricted as to where he plays football because he wasn''t born in the right geographical area of the world because that''s the only difference between him an and english footballer. Restricting foreigners is quite frankly one of the most proposterous ideas i have ever heard and could even be considered racist certainly xenophobic! Champions League place for an FA cup victory seems like a good idea but the big 4 are the only one''s to have won it since 1995 when everton won. If they win that consistently without taking it seriously what would it be like if they started fielding their first teams? Millwall got to the final a few years ago to because of who they were playing got a place in the uefa cup would that apply for the champions league? because that could be quite embarrasing?The best solution is a salary cap apart from the obvious benefits it''d bring the game it is imoral how much these players earn when there are people doing important jobs like teachers & nurses etc earning peanuts.

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="Matt Hudson"]

2 Points that have emerged that i would like to comment on.

Somebody said thay they would rather watch the current arsenal, than an arsenal with some british players. In the Long term though, with slight restrictions thee current arsenal team could have english players in it because clubs would focus on developing them more.

Someone also said that one of the reasons we have the likes of rooney, lampard, etc is because they''ve grown up playing with foreign players. Yes, probably has benefitted them, but not many people would want to stop this. Limiting a starting 11 to perhaps innitially 8/9 foreigners would help grow english players  but you could still easily keep the henry''s, ronaldo''s, toure''s drogba''s etc etc. I don''t particularly think a salary cap is the answer, i just believe it would throw up too many problems. I mean, just getting rid of the foreigners who are in the premiership when english players could do a job. You look at clubs like Bolton, they have hatfuls of foreigners but how many of them actually make a huge difference. Stopping an influx of these ones, not the woorld stars which we do need to keep would benfit us i''m sure.

[/quote]

Fair enough I suppose, but on your first point I''ll refer back to my earlier post which mentioned the urgent need for an overhaul of the way young players are coached in this country. Even if Arsene Wenger wanted to buy English (that''s another point by the way, are we including Welsh, Scottish and Irish as foreigners?) he couldn''t find players to play in the same style as his Arsenal team do now. They''re just not coached well enough in the basic skills of football. That needs sorting out long before we start bringing in limits on foreign players or else our game will be dragged back completely to the dark ages.

I can sort of see your second point as well, but who decides which of the Bolton players are "not making a huge difference". Also, is a manager like Sam Allardyce, who is renowned for picking up bargains, going to be able to replace these players with affordable English players on similar wages? Right now I don''t think he could and if the number of foreign players was restricted, thus making English players more sought after, he certainly wouldn''t be able to do it then.

The whole of English football needs revamping in my opinion, but restricting foreigners at this moment in time will do little to help. The main problems run a lot deeper than that!

[mbncfc 1]

I did post something on this, but Kolin Kob''s post seems to have devoured it somehow [:''(]

Not that it really said much that hasn''t already been said.

''Foreigners'' welcome... salary cap should happen, but I can''t see that it ever will....

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

Maybe there should only be men of Norfolk in the Norwich squad?

As for the manager. That is a more serious matter. He should have been born within 15 minutes walk of Carrow Road.

The Chairman? We should open up a qualification corridor to the east as  far as Great Yarmouth.[;)]

OTBC

 

 

[alex_ncfc 662]

Of COURSE there should be limits!

How can anyone justify the likes of Arsenal fielding 11 foreigners every so often in the ENGLISH Premier League, to call it by it''s proper name. I''m not saying no foreigners, but come on, 4 or 5 max on the field for a team at any one time.

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

Maybe there should only be men of Norfolk in the Norwich squad?

As for the manager. That is a more serious matter. He should have been born within 15 minutes walk of Carrow Road.

The Chairman? We should open up a qualification corridor to the east as  far as Great Yarmouth.[;)]

OTBC

 

 

[/quote]

Thank God for some common sense Bly. I thought it was only me that had such vision on here........[Y]

Oh and by the way mbdvdcdvhsncfc....your post was pretty crap so we didn''t bother with it.........[;)]