norwich - the team, the youth, the board, the fans

[jjblyss 0]

it seems that all you read on the board these days is negativity, firstly worthington did great to get us to the premiership and we seem to judge him on the problems leading to his sacking, he underperformed why...we wont know, it could have been player unrest or both manager and team needing a fresh start and a new direction.

peter grant, i read on this site a while back some one saying grant ignores youth yet if you read up on the youth team players PG has taken a keen interest and is clearly aiming to give them first team experience on loan so he can get a better look at how they will be when faced with the physicalities of playing week in week out at senior level. We can''t judge him on the goings on of this season, i believe this is clear, hes trying hard to bring players in and though doubted by the few (unfortunately making the many fans who do support through thick and thin look fickle which isnt the case).

Chadwick, Marshall and Brown....chadwick and marshall are great signings and will prove to be so, brown is still young and with a run could be a good player as he was at youth.

ryan jarvis, rossi jarvis, halliday and ian henderson....don''t write these 4 off they are all talented players who just lack exposure to playing week in week out, i believe PG rates all four but also he realises that especially in the case of ryan jarvis and ian henderson they were mis-used by his predecessor, henderson often played out of position and jarvis jsut put under either to much pressure or lost confidence either way lets support these guys they are young and whether you realise or not they are inexperienced and a stadium can be a daunting place when fans go against you.

Delia and co, whether its doomcaster or doncaster...we can hate our board or love them but at the end of the day we need to wake up and realise that this team owes bucket loads to both its fans and the board, ive read comments from people saying delia is a great fan but not rich enough to support a team on its board as shes seen as a poor millionaire....revel in this, yeah she doesnt have as much money as a lerner or abramovich but id rather we remained an honest side that strives for success (and we do have the capacity to reach it). I want to say to Delia don''t go if we can bring in more money through other investors then great but we musnt lose the family atmosphere of what is a friendly club loved by many. Our debt has been managed and controlled by sensible buisness and im not talikng about worthingtons transfers!

Robinson, Hughes, Thorne, Colin, Gallacher, Doherty

i picked these players as they seem to get the most abuse, hughes as much as he has and still strives to do his best to impress he doesnt he may be trying to hard but being honest he just doesnt fit into the norwich style of play, ive seen a few silly moments from him on the pitch which i dont like but even still lets cheer him on he may still suprise us.

thorne will do well at oldham, he didnt for norwich but good luck fella not all moves work.

robinson again cheer him on, berating players won''t help, the way the league is we can make the play-offs but only if we support the team and make them realise with great support anythings possible.

colin has really come along this season and started to prove people wrong and he looks to be settling into the style of play of the english leagues now.

gallacher he has made some howlers and has also had some good moments, a talented keeper but clearly not on form it would have been great to give joe lewis ago but PG is obviously of the belief that lewis needs a loan to get some experience first we have to trust him on this as he has inherited someone elses side.

doherty, the ginger pele to some (not sure bout that)....a donkey to some (definately not agreeing with that)...he strikes me as a player determined to do well for this club and enjoys playing for the team, he has given some silly free-kicks away but he should not be ignored as a commanding centre back, so give him a cheer as hes trying to hard right now to make fans realise his worth, so lets let him now how much hes worth to us...so he relaxes and returns to his dominant self and leads a shakey defence and turns them into a solid unit which indeed they should be.

finally whoever we sign in this window good luck, i hope fans realise we can still turn a season going bad round and with a little luck and the fans spurring the players on maybe the players will roll those sleeves up and turn things around as they have the potential but lack the confidence!

SO PG, NORWICH, DELIA and the FANS............LETS BE HAVIN YA

[Old Boy 0]

What a great post, jjblyss. I don''t neccessarily agree with some points, but I''m totally in sympathy with the tone. A supporter supports, and doesn''t constantly try to undermine. "What good is a man who won''t take a stand - what good is a cynic with no better plan?" - Ben Harper. We''ve got loads of people taking stands on here, but most of them are cynics with no better plan.

[blacko 0]

Well jjblyss, quality first post and welcome to the board.

[Colourful Canary 0]

You have been rumbled.

Whoever you are you must be employed by the club and your attitude and

that of people like you is the reason that Norwich City are going

nowhere. There is a thin line between supporting your club no matter

what, and sitting idly by fiddling while Rome burns.

Putting up with, never mind defending, this mediocrity is a sure recipe

for disaster i.e. relegation to the third tier of English football.

I would say that you are probably Doncaster or one of the directors - I

am sure that  they post on this board from time to time in an

effort to paper over the cracks, and this post reeks of the type of

club ""spin" which we get far too much of these days.

[Hog 0]

nicey nicey, family club, little Norwich etc etc. Oi Delia stop writing on this message board!

[GJP 79]

[quote user="jjblyss"]

ryan jarvis, rossi jarvis, halliday and ian henderson....don''t write these 4 off they are all talented players who just lack exposure to playing week in week out, i believe PG rates all four but also he realises that especially in the case of ryan jarvis and ian henderson they were mis-used by his predecessor, henderson often played out of position and jarvis jsut put under either to much pressure or lost confidence either way lets support these guys they are young and whether you realise or not they are inexperienced and a stadium can be a daunting place when fans go against you.

[/quote]

While I agree with some of the comments you made later on in the post about the senior players I really think you''re giving some of them youngsters a bit too much credit. Giving people games or playing them in their favoured position doesn''t suddenly mean they''ll become quality professionals. Those 4 particular players would never make the grade at a club which has a stronger acadaemy system.Nigel Worthington realised they weren''t up to it and PG will be exactly the same. They have to give 1 or 2 a run every so often as a token gesture but aside from Joe Lewis there aren''t any young players at the club who stand out as being good enough to make the grade.

We need to be more ruthless with the academy....players that just aren''t cutting it need to be kicked out rather than just letting them sit on the fringes of the first team for 4 years.

[Alf Stewart 0]

[quote user="Huge Hairy Canary"]You have been rumbled.
Whoever you are you must be employed by the club and your attitude and that of people like you is the reason that Norwich City are going nowhere. There is a thin line between supporting your club no matter what, and sitting idly by fiddling while Rome burns.

Putting up with, never mind defending, this mediocrity is a sure recipe for disaster i.e. relegation to the third tier of English football.

I would say that you are probably Doncaster or one of the directors - I am sure that  they post on this board from time to time in an effort to paper over the cracks, and this post reeks of the type of club ""spin" which we get far too much of these days.

[/quote]

Strewth mate!!!!!

Those single yellow birds have all got kangaroos loose in the to paddock...

Flamin'' Galaaaaaaaaahs.... the lot of ''em!!!!!! [ap] [ip] [pi]

 

[Cluck 0]

A supporter should support the club....full stop. The people in "apparent" charge at any given time are entrusted to provide a decent service to us (the paying Norwich public) and by criticising them...it is totally different to criticising the "club" itself. The club should always remain bigger than anyone who might try to hijack it.

Another bucket full of sentimental slush and typical of the wishy washy attitude now endemic at Carrow Road. All of the above mentioned get very well paid for what they do....and in any reasonable company outside of NCFC they would be out on their a*se by now.

As I''ve said before...heads run successful businesses....not hearts..........

Anyone else notice NCFC is up for a PR award?  Says alot about the tripe they''ve been pumping out....and just how successful they''ve been in "spinning" the paying public. They might well feel chuffed....but it doesn''t make the ever loyal "fans" look too astute.

 

[Mello Yello 2,282]

[quote user="Old Boy"]What a great post, jjblyss. I don''t neccessarily agree with some points, but I''m totally in sympathy with the tone. A supporter supports, and doesn''t constantly try to undermine. "What good is a man who won''t take a stand - what good is a cynic with no better plan?" - Ben Harper. We''ve got loads of people taking stands on here, but most of them are cynics with no better plan.
[/quote]

What would your plan or solution be then, ''Auld Boy?'' How long does a relationship last when the kids are sufferin'', eh?

I''m a cynic, I''m not convinced the board have a clue........If we don''t get a result today-that''s our season over.......(bar the braggin'' rights of the local derby ''ding dong'').......The board and several squad members promised so much after the last 2 seasons - and that''s all it was, empty promises. I don''t post on this forum to ''convert'' the hopefuls and the ''true fans''......I just say what I see. My plan would be to survive this season and remain a Championship club. Pursue new investment from outside the ''circle of friends.'' Then, during the close-season, a mass clear-out of the squad with the appointment of a ''robust'' new Chairman, and the trimming of the ''chummy'' NCFC board. We''ve become stale, stagnant and so, so, predictable. In 10 years, we have gone in a large circle. Is Grant the new Megson? Is the Chief Exec the new Chase?.........When are we likely to reap the benefits of the off-field activities?.....What happened to the Charlton model and the 5 year plan?............We are a poor club wearing a fur coat........and, it''s imitation fur. Yours cynically, Myopic Mello. 

[nutty nigel 7,513]

I don''t think anybody can argue too much with what you have to say Mello. Since we were promoted to the Premiership mistakes have been made at all levels. However, what''s done can''t be undone.

I think everyone was hoping for an instant fix when Worthy was sacked and it hasn''t happened. Peter Grant took over in October and this month is the first oppurtunity he has had to make changes to his squad. If a mass clear out is needed the transfer window system makes it far more difficult than it used to be, and he needs time to do it.

The solution suggested a few months ago was to sack the manager and bring a new one in from outside the club. I think we should see if this solution can work before we try another one.

I would suggest the Charlton model is broken and the 5 year plan is back to the year dot!

 

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="-.-. .-.. ..- -.-. -.-"]

A supporter should support the club....full stop. The people in "apparent" charge at any given time are entrusted to provide a decent service to us (the paying Norwich public) and by criticising them...it is totally different to criticising the "club" itself. The club should always remain bigger than anyone who might try to hijack it.

Another bucket full of sentimental slush and typical of the wishy washy attitude now endemic at Carrow Road. All of the above mentioned get very well paid for what they do....and in any reasonable company outside of NCFC they would be out on their a*se by now.

As I''ve said before...heads run successful businesses....not hearts..........

Anyone else notice NCFC is up for a PR award?  Says alot about the tripe they''ve been pumping out....and just how successful they''ve been in "spinning" the paying public. They might well feel chuffed....but it doesn''t make the ever loyal "fans" look too astute.

 

[/quote]

More negative garbage from Cluck, who says criticising elements of the club are justified because it is different than criticising the "club" itself. I say take the input from Cluck and replace the word "club" with the word "family". How do you think most families would react and function if all they heard from another so-called family member was nothing but CONSTANT criticism, which he then tries to justify by saying that his CONSTANT criticism is only in the best interest of the family unit? It doesn''t take rocket science to figure out the answer does it?   

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

Just reading the initial post I just cannot beleive that our squad of talented players lies 17th in the league and only 5 points off the relegation zone! 

Why on earth our fans complain I will never know??  I mean its not as if we got dicked on at home to the mighty Plymouth in our last game.....

[SeattleCanary 0]

[quote user="GJP"][quote user="jjblyss"]

ryan jarvis, rossi jarvis, halliday and ian henderson....don''t write these 4 off they are all talented players who just lack exposure to playing week in week out, i believe PG rates all four but also he realises that especially in the case of ryan jarvis and ian henderson they were mis-used by his predecessor, henderson often played out of position and jarvis jsut put under either to much pressure or lost confidence either way lets support these guys they are young and whether you realise or not they are inexperienced and a stadium can be a daunting place when fans go against you.

[/quote]

While I agree with some of the comments you made later on in the post about the senior players I really think you''re giving some of them youngsters a bit too much credit. Giving people games or playing them in their favoured position doesn''t suddenly mean they''ll become quality professionals. Those 4 particular players would never make the grade at a club which has a stronger acadaemy system.Nigel Worthington realised they weren''t up to it and PG will be exactly the same. They have to give 1 or 2 a run every so often as a token gesture but aside from Joe Lewis there aren''t any young players at the club who stand out as being good enough to make the grade.

We need to be more ruthless with the academy....players that just aren''t cutting it need to be kicked out rather than just letting them sit on the fringes of the first team for 4 years.

[/quote]

Chris Martin aswell as Joe Lewis are the exceptions big things are expected of him.

[jjblyss 0]

sentimental slush....wishy washy fans....lacking business heads......hmmmmmmmmm

some times people should take heed and read more carefully other wise points are missed.

my point is that the ''few'' seem to spend more time slaggin are players and board off than being constructive with their comments, as a paying fan i don''t mind reading others opinions and feel were the majority are coming from, however to use abuse and taunts doesn''t help anyone especially not the players creating an unfriendly atmosphere to play in, so in closing its time for fans to realise that changes are made through leaders or people who can inspire belief, as fans we can help create this belief by cheering are team rather than kicking them while their down or attacking the board which although i don''t agree with everything they have done, they have done so in a manner which has saved this club and made it stable.

we want to be in the premiership, as fans we want the days of old back such as european football but the effects that arise from the above are negative and not helpful, so if people have complaints state them but and construct them so their useful as you can guarentee that if aboard recieved abuse they would ignore it however if its a structured complaint supported by facts then change it is hoped would become a realisation....if not then we will know truly what NCFC board is about.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="jjblyss"]

sentimental slush....wishy washy fans....lacking business heads......hmmmmmmmmm

some times people should take heed and read more carefully other wise points are missed.

my point is that the ''few'' seem to spend more time slaggin are players and board off than being constructive with their comments, as a paying fan i don''t mind reading others opinions and feel were the majority are coming from, however to use abuse and taunts doesn''t help anyone especially not the players creating an unfriendly atmosphere to play in, so in closing its time for fans to realise that changes are made through leaders or people who can inspire belief, as fans we can help create this belief by cheering are team rather than kicking them while their down or attacking the board which although i don''t agree with everything they have done, they have done so in a manner which has saved this club and made it stable.

we want to be in the premiership, as fans we want the days of old back such as european football but the effects that arise from the above are negative and not helpful, so if people have complaints state them but and construct them so their useful as you can guarentee that if aboard recieved abuse they would ignore it however if its a structured complaint supported by facts then change it is hoped would become a realisation....if not then we will know truly what NCFC board is about.

[/quote]

do u believe then, that the current squad is good enough to mount a serious, sustained Pormotion Push? and if so to stay up once in top flight?

jas :)

[jelltex 0]

[quote user="Salahuddin"]nicey nicey, family club, little Norwich etc etc. Oi Delia stop writing on this message board![/quote]

 

Why is it whenever somebody offers an opion diffent to those Board out, Grant Outers, it must be someone at the club who is behind the past? I understand the frustration of the fans, but unless a plan B is put forward other than the current board, then it would be foolhardy to say the least to sack the board just because. The current board has many questions to answer, I won''t deny, mistakes have been made. And quite where the influx of players has been this month is another thing that needs adressing.

As I have said before, whether we like it or not, Grant needs time to bring players he wants to the club, and let those go who clearly do not want to be here. If i could, i would be at games every week, but I can''t. I am also sure that I would be as frustrated as the next fan with the situation and the performances. But, i like to think I live in the real world, and there was never going to be a quick fix as the team had been allowed to stagnate to the level it was in October.

It is also up to senior players in the squad to lead, to set an example for others to follow; for the captain to give under-performers the rollocking they deserve. But none of this happens.

As you can see, I have no answers, but to hand out P45''s will nilly would be just as criminal in the fiddling done by the board over the past two years.

[Bobert 0]

Strange as it may seem DS is not computer literate, writes all her books by hand and never reads the Pink ''un Notice Board!

[Mello Yello 2,282]

[quote user="jjblyss"]

sentimental slush....wishy washy fans....lacking business heads......hmmmmmmmmm

some times people should take heed and read more carefully other wise points are missed.

my point is that the ''few'' seem to spend more time slaggin are players and board off than being constructive with their comments, as a paying fan i don''t mind reading others opinions and feel were the majority are coming from, however to use abuse and taunts doesn''t help anyone especially not the players creating an unfriendly atmosphere to play in, so in closing its time for fans to realise that changes are made through leaders or people who can inspire belief, as fans we can help create this belief by cheering are team rather than kicking them while their down or attacking the board which although i don''t agree with everything they have done, they have done so in a manner which has saved this club and made it stable.

we want to be in the premiership, as fans we want the days of old back such as european football but the effects that arise from the above are negative and not helpful, so if people have complaints state them but and construct them so their useful as you can guarentee that if aboard recieved abuse they would ignore it however if its a structured complaint supported by facts then change it is hoped would become a realisation....if not then we will know truly what NCFC board is about.

[/quote]

"NEE NAW! NEE NAW! NEE NAW! ALERT! ALERT! ALERT!.......Suspect Club Employee on the forum"....... I repeat: Suspect Club Employee on the forum!"

"How about that for a ''taunt'', eh?" Yup, it''s the responsibility of the 20,000 fans to ensure we''re a success.....while the NCFC board fiddle whilst team burns itself out. 

The NCFC board don''t listen, they like their ego''s massaged, not criticised!

Stability you call it? Manageable debt is OK I suppose, as you construct and refurbish ( Mr Mumbles and Co''s off-field priorities) everything in and around Carrow Road - apart from where it actually matters....... y''know, those, that on occasion play on the greeny stuff in the middle of the stadium ......Do you also think that our current Government - led by our upstanding and honest PM, are doing a credible job?....I bet you really do........

 

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="jjblyss"]

sentimental slush....wishy washy fans....lacking business heads......hmmmmmmmmm

some times people should take heed and read more carefully other wise points are missed.

my point is that the ''few'' seem to spend more time slaggin are players and board off than being constructive with their comments, as a paying fan i don''t mind reading others opinions and feel were the majority are coming from, however to use abuse and taunts doesn''t help anyone especially not the players creating an unfriendly atmosphere to play in, so in closing its time for fans to realise that changes are made through leaders or people who can inspire belief, as fans we can help create this belief by cheering are team rather than kicking them while their down or attacking the board which although i don''t agree with everything they have done, they have done so in a manner which has saved this club and made it stable.

we want to be in the premiership, as fans we want the days of old back such as european football but the effects that arise from the above are negative and not helpful, so if people have complaints state them but and construct them so their useful as you can guarentee that if aboard recieved abuse they would ignore it however if its a structured complaint supported by facts then change it is hoped would become a realisation....if not then we will know truly what NCFC board is about.

[/quote]

Whenever I see this erroneous statement, I know exactly what I am dealing with......

I''ve explained many times my stance on the state of the club...and just as others are bored with hearing it...I''m bored with stating it. No badgering on this Earth will make me sway from my position....and as a supporter since 1962....born in Norwich of Norwich parentage....a season ticket holder paying good money to the club....AND a regular reader of the pinkun''....Therefore I''m as qualified as anyone else to have my say.

This present Board has it''s own agenda and the only way it will sit up and take notice is if the cash receipts decline. It is a business and a PR window.....so hard cash is the language they understand. The real negativity around NCFC these days is the limp attitude of the Board, some players and a section of fans who think it will "all turn out rosy in the end if we believe". Sadly it won''t....so to go down this road is to capitulate.

As for cheering on the team "regardless" and maintaining a nice "friendly" atmosphere...I find this bewildering. Football is all about passion raised by excitement on the pitch....and that is not happening....nor has it for many a moon. Give me something to be excited about....and I''ll gladly cheer them on....Ask me to clap like a sea-lion....and you can forget it.

Don''t confuse concern with negativity....nor determination with disruption. They are very different things.......

[Pyro Pete 1,889]

[quote user="jjblyss"]

it seems that all you read on the board these days is negativity, firstly worthington did great to get us to the premiership and we seem to judge him on the problems leading to his sacking, he underperformed why...we wont know, it could have been player unrest or both manager and team needing a fresh start and a new direction.

peter grant, i read on this site a while back some one saying grant ignores youth yet if you read up on the youth team players PG has taken a keen interest and is clearly aiming to give them first team experience on loan so he can get a better look at how they will be when faced with the physicalities of playing week in week out at senior level. We can''t judge him on the goings on of this season, i believe this is clear, hes trying hard to bring players in and though doubted by the few (unfortunately making the many fans who do support through thick and thin look fickle which isnt the case).

Chadwick, Marshall and Brown....chadwick and marshall are great signings and will prove to be so, brown is still young and with a run could be a good player as he was at youth.

ryan jarvis, rossi jarvis, halliday and ian henderson....don''t write these 4 off they are all talented players who just lack exposure to playing week in week out, i believe PG rates all four but also he realises that especially in the case of ryan jarvis and ian henderson they were mis-used by his predecessor, henderson often played out of position and jarvis jsut put under either to much pressure or lost confidence either way lets support these guys they are young and whether you realise or not they are inexperienced and a stadium can be a daunting place when fans go against you.

Delia and co, whether its doomcaster or doncaster...we can hate our board or love them but at the end of the day we need to wake up and realise that this team owes bucket loads to both its fans and the board, ive read comments from people saying delia is a great fan but not rich enough to support a team on its board as shes seen as a poor millionaire....revel in this, yeah she doesnt have as much money as a lerner or abramovich but id rather we remained an honest side that strives for success (and we do have the capacity to reach it). I want to say to Delia don''t go if we can bring in more money through other investors then great but we musnt lose the family atmosphere of what is a friendly club loved by many. Our debt has been managed and controlled by sensible buisness and im not talikng about worthingtons transfers!

Robinson, Hughes, Thorne, Colin, Gallacher, Doherty

i picked these players as they seem to get the most abuse, hughes as much as he has and still strives to do his best to impress he doesnt he may be trying to hard but being honest he just doesnt fit into the norwich style of play, ive seen a few silly moments from him on the pitch which i dont like but even still lets cheer him on he may still suprise us.

thorne will do well at oldham, he didnt for norwich but good luck fella not all moves work.

robinson again cheer him on, berating players won''t help, the way the league is we can make the play-offs but only if we support the team and make them realise with great support anythings possible.

colin has really come along this season and started to prove people wrong and he looks to be settling into the style of play of the english leagues now.

gallacher he has made some howlers and has also had some good moments, a talented keeper but clearly not on form it would have been great to give joe lewis ago but PG is obviously of the belief that lewis needs a loan to get some experience first we have to trust him on this as he has inherited someone elses side.

doherty, the ginger pele to some (not sure bout that)....a donkey to some (definately not agreeing with that)...he strikes me as a player determined to do well for this club and enjoys playing for the team, he has given some silly free-kicks away but he should not be ignored as a commanding centre back, so give him a cheer as hes trying to hard right now to make fans realise his worth, so lets let him now how much hes worth to us...so he relaxes and returns to his dominant self and leads a shakey defence and turns them into a solid unit which indeed they should be.

finally whoever we sign in this window good luck, i hope fans realise we can still turn a season going bad round and with a little luck and the fans spurring the players on maybe the players will roll those sleeves up and turn things around as they have the potential but lack the confidence!

SO PG, NORWICH, DELIA and the FANS............LETS BE HAVIN YA

[/quote]This post is a joke, right? Please tell us you really aren''t this stupid.

[beelsie 0]

Good post Jjblyss, well put.

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="-.-. .-.. ..- -.-. -.-"][quote user="jjblyss"]

sentimental slush....wishy washy fans....lacking business heads......hmmmmmmmmm

some times people should take heed and read more carefully other wise points are missed.

my point is that the ''few'' seem to spend more time slaggin are players and board off than being constructive with their comments, as a paying fan i don''t mind reading others opinions and feel were the majority are coming from, however to use abuse and taunts doesn''t help anyone especially not the players creating an unfriendly atmosphere to play in, so in closing its time for fans to realise that changes are made through leaders or people who can inspire belief, as fans we can help create this belief by cheering are team rather than kicking them while their down or attacking the board which although i don''t agree with everything they have done, they have done so in a manner which has saved this club and made it stable.

we want to be in the premiership, as fans we want the days of old back such as european football but the effects that arise from the above are negative and not helpful, so if people have complaints state them but and construct them so their useful as you can guarentee that if aboard recieved abuse they would ignore it however if its a structured complaint supported by facts then change it is hoped would become a realisation....if not then we will know truly what NCFC board is about.

[/quote]

Whenever I see this erroneous statement, I know exactly what I am dealing with......

I''ve explained many times my stance on the state of the club...and just as others are bored with hearing it...I''m bored with stating it. No badgering on this Earth will make me sway from my position....and as a supporter since 1962....born in Norwich of Norwich parentage....a season ticket holder paying good money to the club....AND a regular reader of the pinkun''....Therefore I''m as qualified as anyone else to have my say.

This present Board has it''s own agenda and the only way it will sit up and take notice is if the cash receipts decline. It is a business and a PR window.....so hard cash is the language they understand. The real negativity around NCFC these days is the limp attitude of the Board, some players and a section of fans who think it will "all turn out rosy in the end if we believe". Sadly it won''t....so to go down this road is to capitulate.

As for cheering on the team "regardless" and maintaining a nice "friendly" atmosphere...I find this bewildering. Football is all about passion raised by excitement on the pitch....and that is not happening....nor has it for many a moon. Give me something to be excited about....and I''ll gladly cheer them on....Ask me to clap like a sea-lion....and you can forget it.

Don''t confuse concern with negativity....nor determination with disruption. They are very different things.......

[/quote]

I''m not confused by your position Cluck. You are right and justified to be concerned. Also, it is admirable to be determined and I admire you for that. I also agree that the strongest message to those in charge of any organisation is when customers start voting with their feet and spend their money on other products or entertainment. However, I would encourage you to not confuse determination with excessive negativity. Whether the input comes from a politician, a newspaper columnist, a boss in the workplace, a well-intentioned parent to other family members or a poster on this message board, if the same basic message is repeated ten times a day month after month, then the point won''t come across as constructive criticism from any of those sources. Further, the originator will generally not be seen by reasonable people as determined in illuminating a problem but, rather, someone who is bull-headed in their single-minded negativity.

You say you don''t care in the least what others say, and yet, you feel inclined to come on with posts like this to EXPLAIN to others why they shouldn''t be confused. If you didn''t care you would not take the time to explain. You say you are bored with stating your position. Well then, the solution to that is simple. Stop stating the same thing so frequently. I am sure that many would not see that as a drop in determination on your position. Look for the opportunity to inject a positive once in a while and even more people will value your input rather than the few who cannot wait to attack all things NCFC.  

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Global warming.

Please Jjblys, tell me it isn''t happening!

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="-.-. .-.. ..- -.-. -.-"][quote user="jjblyss"]

sentimental slush....wishy washy fans....lacking business heads......hmmmmmmmmm

some times people should take heed and read more carefully other wise points are missed.

my point is that the ''few'' seem to spend more time slaggin are players and board off than being constructive with their comments, as a paying fan i don''t mind reading others opinions and feel were the majority are coming from, however to use abuse and taunts doesn''t help anyone especially not the players creating an unfriendly atmosphere to play in, so in closing its time for fans to realise that changes are made through leaders or people who can inspire belief, as fans we can help create this belief by cheering are team rather than kicking them while their down or attacking the board which although i don''t agree with everything they have done, they have done so in a manner which has saved this club and made it stable.

we want to be in the premiership, as fans we want the days of old back such as european football but the effects that arise from the above are negative and not helpful, so if people have complaints state them but and construct them so their useful as you can guarentee that if aboard recieved abuse they would ignore it however if its a structured complaint supported by facts then change it is hoped would become a realisation....if not then we will know truly what NCFC board is about.

[/quote]

Whenever I see this erroneous statement, I know exactly what I am dealing with......

I''ve explained many times my stance on the state of the club...and just as others are bored with hearing it...I''m bored with stating it. No badgering on this Earth will make me sway from my position....and as a supporter since 1962....born in Norwich of Norwich parentage....a season ticket holder paying good money to the club....AND a regular reader of the pinkun''....Therefore I''m as qualified as anyone else to have my say.

This present Board has it''s own agenda and the only way it will sit up and take notice is if the cash receipts decline. It is a business and a PR window.....so hard cash is the language they understand. The real negativity around NCFC these days is the limp attitude of the Board, some players and a section of fans who think it will "all turn out rosy in the end if we believe". Sadly it won''t....so to go down this road is to capitulate.

As for cheering on the team "regardless" and maintaining a nice "friendly" atmosphere...I find this bewildering. Football is all about passion raised by excitement on the pitch....and that is not happening....nor has it for many a moon. Give me something to be excited about....and I''ll gladly cheer them on....Ask me to clap like a sea-lion....and you can forget it.

Don''t confuse concern with negativity....nor determination with disruption. They are very different things.......

[/quote]

I''m not confused by your position Cluck. You are right and justified to be concerned. Also, it is admirable to be determined and I admire you for that. I also agree that the strongest message to those in charge of any organisation is when customers start voting with their feet and spend their money on other products or entertainment. However, I would encourage you to not confuse determination with excessive negativity. Whether the input comes from a politician, a newspaper columnist, a boss in the workplace, a well-intentioned parent to other family members or a poster on this message board, if the same basic message is repeated ten times a day month after month, then the point won''t come across as constructive criticism from any of those sources. Further, the originator will generally not be seen by reasonable people as determined in illuminating a problem but, rather, someone who is bull-headed in their single-minded negativity.

You say you don''t care in the least what others say, and yet, you feel inclined to come on with posts like this to EXPLAIN to others why they shouldn''t be confused. If you didn''t care you would not take the time to explain. You say you are bored with stating your position. Well then, the solution to that is simple. Stop stating the same thing so frequently. I am sure that many would not see that as a drop in determination on your position. Look for the opportunity to inject a positive once in a while and even more people will value your input rather than the few who cannot wait to attack all things NCFC.  

[/quote]

Ahhhh Flanagan and Allen..........."Me and my shaaadow....strolling down the Avenue"........[:)]

 

[Old Boy 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"]What would your plan or solution be then, ''Auld Boy?'' How long does a relationship last when the kids are sufferin'', eh?

I''m a cynic, I''m not convinced the board have a clue........If we don''t get a result today-that''s our season over.......(bar the braggin'' rights of the local derby ''ding dong'').......The board and several squad members promised so much after the last 2 seasons - and that''s all it was, empty promises. I don''t post on this forum to ''convert'' the hopefuls and the ''true fans''......I just say what I see. My plan would be to survive this season and remain a Championship club. Pursue new investment from outside the ''circle of friends.'' Then, during the close-season, a mass clear-out of the squad with the appointment of a ''robust'' new Chairman, and the trimming of the ''chummy'' NCFC board. We''ve become stale, stagnant and so, so, predictable. In 10 years, we have gone in a large circle. Is Grant the new Megson? Is the Chief Exec the new Chase?.........When are we likely to reap the benefits of the off-field activities?.....What happened to the Charlton model and the 5 year plan?............We are a poor club wearing a fur coat........and, it''s imitation fur. Yours cynically, Myopic Mello. 

[/quote]My plan is to continue to criticise the Club (management and players) in a constructive way, unless I feel that individuals are cynically taking advantage of it. We''ve seen that happen with certain players (Mulryne, Brennan, Walsh, Cottee... the list is depressingly long). I also plan to keep warning against witch-hunts, on both moral and strategic grounds: I said when the mob was baying for Worthy''s blood that what was important was not getting Worthy out, but getting the right person in. I said this on the basis that (and this may be an indictment of the average standard of coaching, but also accepts how difficult it is now to work with over-indulged players) there are many worse than Worthy out there. I plan to keep pointing out that the Club has had a crippling reputation for being a "soft" Club, where players won''t be pushed hard, and that that reputation has been around for more than ten years, pre-dating Smith and certainly Worthy. This works against us getting hold of, and then keeping, really ambitious players (e.g. Ashton). I plan to keep pointing out that the responsibility of the Board is to stabilise the Club, not only using non-football, commercial, strategies, but by ensuring that all the footballing assets are in good order. By this I mean first team coaching and (primarily) the youth system and Academy, which is the only way we can hope to avoid huge sums of money leaking away on agent''s fees. And I plan to (if I have the money) keep renewing my season ticket, and to watch games whenever I can.Please be honest. we haven''t "gone in a large circle" in the past ten years - certain things are much better than they were then. Even, on average, the football, actually. If you remember watching a team with Sutch, Carey, etc. - 9 or 10 men trying to hide for 90 minutes - you''ll accept that (and that is NOT to say that the current inconsistency is acceptable). It''s that "myopia" that annoys me - certain things are wrong and must be improved, but please keep perspective. And if you advocate knocking the whole thing down, then tell me exactly what you''d put in its place. Then we can have a constructive argument as to how practical that would be.

[YankeeCanary 0]

Ahhhh Flanagan and Allen..........."Me and my shaaadow....strolling down the Avenue"........

Flanagan and Allen Cluck? Were they anything like Burns and Allen, where the one half of the comedy team that did most of the talking was the dizzy one? 

[Mello Yello 2,282]

[quote user="Old Boy"][quote user="Mello Yello"]What would your plan or solution be then, ''Auld Boy?'' How long does a relationship last when the kids are sufferin'', eh?

I''m a cynic, I''m not convinced the board have a clue........If we don''t get a result today-that''s our season over.......(bar the braggin'' rights of the local derby ''ding dong'').......The board and several squad members promised so much after the last 2 seasons - and that''s all it was, empty promises. I don''t post on this forum to ''convert'' the hopefuls and the ''true fans''......I just say what I see. My plan would be to survive this season and remain a Championship club. Pursue new investment from outside the ''circle of friends.'' Then, during the close-season, a mass clear-out of the squad with the appointment of a ''robust'' new Chairman, and the trimming of the ''chummy'' NCFC board. We''ve become stale, stagnant and so, so, predictable. In 10 years, we have gone in a large circle. Is Grant the new Megson? Is the Chief Exec the new Chase?.........When are we likely to reap the benefits of the off-field activities?.....What happened to the Charlton model and the 5 year plan?............We are a poor club wearing a fur coat........and, it''s imitation fur. Yours cynically, Myopic Mello. 

[/quote]
My plan is to continue to criticise the Club (management and players) in a constructive way, unless I feel that individuals are cynically taking advantage of it. We''ve seen that happen with certain players (Mulryne, Brennan, Walsh, Cottee... the list is depressingly long). I also plan to keep warning against witch-hunts, on both moral and strategic grounds: I said when the mob was baying for Worthy''s blood that what was important was not getting Worthy out, but getting the right person in. I said this on the basis that (and this may be an indictment of the average standard of coaching, but also accepts how difficult it is now to work with over-indulged players) there are many worse than Worthy out there. I plan to keep pointing out that the Club has had a crippling reputation for being a "soft" Club, where players won''t be pushed hard, and that that reputation has been around for more than ten years, pre-dating Smith and certainly Worthy. This works against us getting hold of, and then keeping, really ambitious players (e.g. Ashton). I plan to keep pointing out that the responsibility of the Board is to stabilise the Club, not only using non-football, commercial, strategies, but by ensuring that all the footballing assets are in good order. By this I mean first team coaching and (primarily) the youth system and Academy, which is the only way we can hope to avoid huge sums of money leaking away on agent''s fees. And I plan to (if I have the money) keep renewing my season ticket, and to watch games whenever I can.

Please be honest. we haven''t "gone in a large circle" in the past ten years - certain things are much better than they were then. Even, on average, the football, actually. If you remember watching a team with Sutch, Carey, etc. - 9 or 10 men trying to hide for 90 minutes - you''ll accept that (and that is NOT to say that the current inconsistency is acceptable). It''s that "myopia" that annoys me - certain things are wrong and must be improved, but please keep perspective. And if you advocate knocking the whole thing down, then tell me exactly what you''d put in its place. Then we can have a constructive argument as to how practical that would be.
[/quote]

Thankyou for your thoughts and reply.

Do you think that Mr Grant was the right person to replace Nigel? PG was head-hunted and didn''t actually apply for the position? ( His words), as the other candidates that were interviewed, were actually, probably wasting their time....I believe that PG was the boards choice, because he was prepared to take on the responsibility of manager - whilst accepting the boards ''mantra'' of the prudence, infinito patience, onwards and across a bit - and the other soundbites that were emitted from the major shareholders.  Apart from that, I concur with the majority of your reply........bar my ''gone in a big circle'' comment. We are now £22 million squid in ''manageable'' debt, with a squad that is smaller than most Sunday league ''kick to kill'' pub teams. To witness nearly 24,000 every home game and not having any credible replacement squad members on the bench is diabolical. I could ramble on.........but I won''t.

 I honestly believe, we should be ruthlessly marketing and pushing hard for outside investment ( by hook, not crook) and not wait for prospective and interested individuals or groups to come along. Also, the investment should be supported by a new Chairman, and with him a new board who possess a brazen with ''Gusto and Forza!'' attitude. Unless that is, we are all prepared to remain in the Championship, and with it, the mundane mediocrity for the forseeable future. Nice stadium though........Oh, and to taint the Worthington detractors as a ''baying mob''......I beg to differ, at least they had the tenacity and mettle to air their grievance.......unlike the ''tut, tut, tut brigade'' that didn''t think that there was a problem......But hey, let''s not go down that road, it''s all history. My concern is, ''what the board holds for our future?'' 

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="-.-. .-.. ..- -.-. -.-"][quote user="jjblyss"]

sentimental slush....wishy washy fans....lacking business heads......hmmmmmmmmm

some times people should take heed and read more carefully other wise points are missed.

my point is that the ''few'' seem to spend more time slaggin are players and board off than being constructive with their comments, as a paying fan i don''t mind reading others opinions and feel were the majority are coming from, however to use abuse and taunts doesn''t help anyone especially not the players creating an unfriendly atmosphere to play in, so in closing its time for fans to realise that changes are made through leaders or people who can inspire belief, as fans we can help create this belief by cheering are team rather than kicking them while their down or attacking the board which although i don''t agree with everything they have done, they have done so in a manner which has saved this club and made it stable.

we want to be in the premiership, as fans we want the days of old back such as european football but the effects that arise from the above are negative and not helpful, so if people have complaints state them but and construct them so their useful as you can guarentee that if aboard recieved abuse they would ignore it however if its a structured complaint supported by facts then change it is hoped would become a realisation....if not then we will know truly what NCFC board is about.

[/quote]

Whenever I see this erroneous statement, I know exactly what I am dealing with......

I''ve explained many times my stance on the state of the club...and just as others are bored with hearing it...I''m bored with stating it. No badgering on this Earth will make me sway from my position....and as a supporter since 1962....born in Norwich of Norwich parentage....a season ticket holder paying good money to the club....AND a regular reader of the pinkun''....Therefore I''m as qualified as anyone else to have my say.

This present Board has it''s own agenda and the only way it will sit up and take notice is if the cash receipts decline. It is a business and a PR window.....so hard cash is the language they understand. The real negativity around NCFC these days is the limp attitude of the Board, some players and a section of fans who think it will "all turn out rosy in the end if we believe". Sadly it won''t....so to go down this road is to capitulate.

As for cheering on the team "regardless" and maintaining a nice "friendly" atmosphere...I find this bewildering. Football is all about passion raised by excitement on the pitch....and that is not happening....nor has it for many a moon. Give me something to be excited about....and I''ll gladly cheer them on....Ask me to clap like a sea-lion....and you can forget it.

Don''t confuse concern with negativity....nor determination with disruption. They are very different things.......

[/quote]

We will not clap, we will not chear, the c**p on show while Delia''s here!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7kFDwjTM6w

[:P]

[charlies dad 0]

The exodus of players from the squad has been appalling. In many cases, fat fees have been received, but seldom has the money been made available for replacements. Now, we dont even have ebnough players to adequately fill a bench. Would all the sycophants like to explain that one away? WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON? 

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="charlies dad"]The exodus of players from the squad has been appalling. In many cases, fat fees have been received, but seldom has the money been made available for replacements. Now, we dont even have ebnough players to adequately fill a bench. Would all the sycophants like to explain that one away? WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON? [/quote]

Relax CD....It''s called "Nouveau Football"....based on the trendy minimal cooking technique "Nouveau Cuisine".

You get together a small quantity of ingredients and assemble them artistically on a plate...prior to charging a large sum of money for it. The punter then thinks he is enjoying something exotic for his outlay and leaves contented.

With NCFC...we get next to nothing on the pitch...it is then "spun" nicely by the "cook" and her staff....and we all pay alot of money for it.......some of us even leaving satisfied............

Amazing piece of business..........[N]