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koimatsuba

NOW NOT LATER ... SPEND OR DIE!!!

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We must buy New Players NOW!!!

We need (at least)

1 x Forward

3 x Defenders

This is a must after the Blackpool Game!

With injuries, lack of talent, etc etc in the current Norwich Team and our league position we MUST SPEND!

What happen to the £2+ million from Greeno?

COME ON ''THE BOARD'' SPEND OR DIE IN LEAGUE 1.

FINAL

 

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Don''t we need any midfielders all of a sudden??

I am still waiting for our main window signing and still hoping it''s a quality central midfielder.

With Earnie out for so long another forward would be useful too.

As for the defence, if Flem is not needed/good enough for cover then someone has to be brought in although I haven''t seen Spillane at centreback so haven''t got any idea if he could do it.

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Don''t we need any midfielders all of a sudden??

I am still waiting for our main window signing and still hoping it''s a quality central midfielder.

With Earnie out for so long another forward would be useful too.

As for the defence, if Flem is not needed/good enough for cover then someone has to be brought in although I haven''t seen Spillane at centreback so haven''t got any idea if he could do it.

 

[/quote]

 

IMO - No we don''t need any midfielders, We have Safri, Etuhu, Robinson, Hughes all of these players may not be brilliant but IMO there isn''t much out there IN THIS LEAGUE that are better. Safri and Robinson are both internationals, Etuhu was once rated at 5 million by Everton. Also not forgeting the wingers of HUCKS, CHADWICK, CROFT.

Yet our defense is a joke. -10 Goal difference is CRAP.  The Doc is at time too shaky and indesive, Dury has been at the club too long and shouldn''t be the captain, Coiln and Shacks are just about at the corect level. Both need help around them. As for fleming hes one season too many. I never rated him anyway, too small for a defender.

We Need A NEW DEFENSE AND AN EXTRA STRIKER TO HELP OUT BROWN NOW EARNIE IS INJURED.

Time for a change at the Back, Dion in Defense at 37 just about showed me just how poor we are at the back and have been since Malky/Edworthy left the club. Dion has been a revelation and should win the player of the season by a mile!

Anyway .... Wolves next at home, with our defense at present God help us!

Cheers All

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[quote user="koimatsuba"]

IMO - No we don''t need any midfielders, We have Safri, Etuhu, Robinson, Hughes all of these players may not be brilliant but IMO there isn''t much out there IN THIS LEAGUE that are better. Safri and Robinson are both internationals, Etuhu was once rated at 5 million by Everton. Also not forgeting the wingers of HUCKS, CHADWICK, CROFT.

Yet our defense is a joke. -10 Goal difference is CRAP.  The Doc is at time too shaky and indesive, Dury has been at the club too long and shouldn''t be the captain, Coiln and Shacks are just about at the corect level. Both need help around them. As for fleming hes one season too many. I never rated him anyway, too small for a defender.

We Need A NEW DEFENSE AND AN EXTRA STRIKER TO HELP OUT BROWN NOW EARNIE IS INJURED.

[/quote]

See I actually agree that it''s the defence that needs the work more than the midfield but I see Shackell and Colin as being the weaker links. Fair enough the Doc isn''t playing with any confidence at the moment but when he does he''s a better defender than Shackell.

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[quote user="koimatsuba"]

IMO - No we don''t need any midfielders, We have Safri, Etuhu, Robinson, Hughes all of these players may not be brilliant but IMO there isn''t much out there IN THIS LEAGUE that are better. Safri and Robinson are both internationals, Etuhu was once rated at 5 million by Everton. Also not forgeting the wingers of HUCKS, CHADWICK, CROFT.

Yet our defense is a joke. -10 Goal difference is CRAP.  The Doc is at time too shaky and indesive, Dury has been at the club too long and shouldn''t be the captain, Coiln and Shacks are just about at the corect level. Both need help around them. As for fleming hes one season too many. I never rated him anyway, too small for a defender.

We Need A NEW DEFENSE AND AN EXTRA STRIKER TO HELP OUT BROWN NOW EARNIE IS INJURED.

Time for a change at the Back, Dion in Defense at 37 just about showed me just how poor we are at the back and have been since Malky/Edworthy left the club. Dion has been a revelation and should win the player of the season by a mile!

Anyway .... Wolves next at home, with our defense at present God help us!

Cheers All

[/quote]

OK, its about opinions and this is a good discussion. There''s no need to shout though cuz I may be old but I don''t have a hearing aid yet! [;)]

I agree with you about Robinson and it''s interesting that every manager he plays under rates him highly and like I have said before Worthington, Toshack, Hunter and Grant have all played him as first choice this season. On form Safri is as good as any in this league but his fitness and consistency count against him I''m afraid. These two are our best but in a 442 I''m afraid we can only play one of them. Etuhu was once rated at 5m but we rarely see evidence of that we just see why he was never sold for 5m. Hughes is a thoroughly honest and likeable footballer whose confidence has taken a battering. If you have any old videos of games when Gary Holt was playing watch them and pick out the times he helped out our defence, especially Drury. Edworthy, Mackay and Co.  who looked a lot more solid with Gary Holt in front of them, and of course with a good keeper behind them.

I agree with GJP, Shackell and Colin are our weakest links at the back, but I think they should be kept in the side. They are young players with great potential. If they were at a bigger club they would probably be out on loan making their mistakes and learning from them for another team. We can''t afford to do that.

As for the Doc. I actually think he is our best defender, we have had many many better but I think he is the best we have now. He makes less mistakes than the others, he fouls less than the others, and I include Dion here! He is frustrating though, his body language isn''t inspiring and I wish he was more of a leader and stronger character on the pitch.

Did you honestly never rate Craig Fleming?

 

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It will be interesting to see how Gary Holt plays today against Chelsea. He did quite well against Charlton in the previous round. I think he will do a lot more futile chasing around today. Game time....got to go now.

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In the end of the day we must change our defense!

-10 goal dif is rubbish.

It has been like that for 2-3 seasons now.

We will never get up the league even if we are the leagues top scores if we leak goals like we do.

I''m not sure about zonal marking, I''m just not sure anymore about our defense. When a ball comes into the box it seems to be one big panic.

Cheers - how was Gary Holt? When he played in the Prem with Norwich I thought he was out of his depth. Has he improved?

 

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Never rated Fleming? Without question the best defender we have had in the last 10 years - he was a much better defender than Malky (although Malky was a better organiser & leader).

As for Colin, he has been by far our best defender this year. He is greatly improved from last season.

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[quote user="GJP"][quote user="koimatsuba"]

IMO - No we don''t need any midfielders, We have Safri, Etuhu, Robinson, Hughes all of these players may not be brilliant but IMO there isn''t much out there IN THIS LEAGUE that are better. Safri and Robinson are both internationals, Etuhu was once rated at 5 million by Everton. Also not forgeting the wingers of HUCKS, CHADWICK, CROFT.

Yet our defense is a joke. -10 Goal difference is CRAP.  The Doc is at time too shaky and indesive, Dury has been at the club too long and shouldn''t be the captain, Coiln and Shacks are just about at the corect level. Both need help around them. As for fleming hes one season too many. I never rated him anyway, too small for a defender.

We Need A NEW DEFENSE AND AN EXTRA STRIKER TO HELP OUT BROWN NOW EARNIE IS INJURED.

[/quote]

See I actually agree that it''s the defence that needs the work more than the midfield but I see Shackell and Colin as being the weaker links. Fair enough the Doc isn''t playing with any confidence at the moment but when he does he''s a better defender than Shackell.

[/quote]Can I assume that you don''t watch many games if you think Colin and Shackell are the weak links?  You must surely be in the minority if you think Doherty is a better defender.  Could you remind me the last time that Doherty played with any confidence.

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[quote user="silver fox"]Can I assume that you don''t watch many games if you think Colin and Shackell are the weak links?  You must surely be in the minority if you think Doherty is a better defender.  Could you remind me the last time that Doherty played with any confidence.[/quote]

So, can I assume that anyone with a different opinion to from mine doesn''t go to games???

It''s an opinion pure and simple. I think Doherty is currently a better defender than Shackell but I also think Shackell has the potential to be better than The Doc.

 

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[quote user="silver fox"]

Can I assume that you don''t watch many games if you think Colin and Shackell are the weak links?  You must surely be in the minority if you think Doherty is a better defender.  Could you remind me the last time that Doherty played with any confidence.[/quote]

Unfortunately many Norwich fans, yourself included it would seem, think Jason Shackell is something he''s not. The Doc was playing with confidence at the start of the season, when Norwich actually made quite a bright start. Following on from him being our player of the season. Obviously you have quite a short memory.

Now if you watch Jason Shackell play closely you''ll (hopefully...if you know your football) notice the number of times he''ll lose out in the air to a player a few inches short than him, how often he lets an opposing striker bring the ball down in his own time and how often he''ll lose a forward who makes clever runs. I mean sure he''ll happily hoof the ball clear when it''s sitting there and everyone will think he''s defended like Fabio Cannavaro.

With a bit of confidence the Doc is comfortably a better defender than Shackell. He''s been at Luton, he''s been at Spurs (and that is what you''d call a big club) and he''s played for his country. Now will Jason Shackell ever be wanted by a club bigger than Norwich? absolutely no chance.

As for Colin...nice and tidy on the ball, he''s an intelligent player. But he is definitely not the strongest defender the world has ever seen.

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I can honestly say that I completely agree with you at this moment its because doherty is by far the biggest defender in the side and by far the easiest to criticise because he is confident in his own abilities and is willing to take risks the other defenders are just happy to play it safe 

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I''m afraid i agree with the previous post,  i''m actually gob smacked that u think doherty is our best defender.  Doherty is slow, cant pass, cant control cant hit the target from inside the 6 yard box but more importantly he gives away too many free kicks.  He constantly wraps his arms around anyone he''s marking and gives away pointless free kicks that time and time again have resulted in goals against.  If a player does get away from him then he''ll foul them usually in a dangerous position.  Defensively he is good in the air i grant you but you can gaurentee he''ll always clear the ball to one of theirs so that the attack can start again.  In my opinion (different to yours I accept) he''s not even an average ''2nd div'' player. Confidence doesn''t have anything to do with it he has no ability!

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I think you are being a little unfair on Shackell saying he will never be wanted by a bigger club than Norwich GJP.

I agree with a lot of your criticisms but Shackell is a young player learning his trade at quite a high level. I think he has the potential to be an excellent central defender, but he needs time and during that time he will make a lot of mistakes.

I really believe we should persevere with Doherty and Shackell. Hopefully a stronger and more confident goalkeeper behind them and a stronger midfielder in front of them will help build up their confidence. It would cost the club a lot of money to buy better than these two!

 

 

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I think you are being a little unfair on Shackell saying he will never be wanted by a bigger club than Norwich GJP.

I agree with a lot of your criticisms but Shackell is a young player learning his trade at quite a high level. I think he has the potential to be an excellent central defender, but he needs time and during that time he will make a lot of mistakes.

I really believe we should persevere with Doherty and Shackell. Hopefully a stronger and more confident goalkeeper behind them and a stronger midfielder in front of them will help build up their confidence. It would cost the club a lot of money to buy better than these two!

[/quote]

He will never be an excellent defender and he will never be wanted by a bigger club than Norwich. And even if someone bigger did come in for him he''d never last. Sometimes he ha a run of a few decent games but he''s played a fair bit for City now and he''s still not turned that corner.

We need at least 1 stronger centreback, ideally 2.

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[quote user="wood 4 the trees"] 

Doherty is slow, cant pass, ! [/quote]

Seeing as you point that out....Jason Shackell is a disgustingly poor passer of the ball for a professional footballer. He''s a hell of a lot worse than Gary Doherty.

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[quote user="wood 4 the trees"]I''m afraid i agree with the previous post,  i''m actually gob smacked that u think doherty is our best defender.  Doherty is slow, cant pass, cant control cant hit the target from inside the 6 yard box but more importantly he gives away too many free kicks.  He constantly wraps his arms around anyone he''s marking and gives away pointless free kicks that time and time again have resulted in goals against.  If a player does get away from him then he''ll foul them usually in a dangerous position.  Defensively he is good in the air i grant you but you can gaurentee he''ll always clear the ball to one of theirs so that the attack can start again.  In my opinion (different to yours I accept) he''s not even an average ''2nd div'' player. Confidence doesn''t have anything to do with it he has no ability![/quote]

Opinions are opinions and facts are facts.

It''s my opinion that Doherty is our best defender at the moment.

It''s a fact that Doherty gives away less free kicks than Shackell and in fact many other players. It''s a fact we don''t concede any more goals from free kicks that Doherty gives away than those given away by other players.

 

 

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[quote user="koimatsuba"]

IMO - No we don''t need any midfielders, We have Safri, Etuhu, Robinson, Hughes all of these players may not be brilliant but IMO there isn''t much out there IN THIS LEAGUE that are better. Safri and Robinson are both internationals, Etuhu was once rated at 5 million by Everton. Also not forgeting the wingers of HUCKS, CHADWICK, CROFT.

[/quote] I think midfield is where all the problems lie. The midfield can''t hold the ball and aren''t creative enough. This is putting the defence under pressure and hence we are shipping goals. Look at the Ipswich game - the ball just came straight back every time the defenders cleared it because the central midfielders weren''t in the game and didn''t compete! Two quality central midfielders is the key to better results in my opinion.

Etuhu is not worth £5m any more. It doesn''t matter what he was once worth - the truth is that while he has talent he goes AWOL far too much of the time and doesn''t boss the midfield which is what we need to see! He just isn''t good enough IMO!

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The trouble with Shackell is that we have all been saying he is a good young player and will come good. I think he is 23 now and it is time he began delivering on a regular basis. I for one am fed up with this "he is still young" nonsense. Spillane is a young player!

Unfortunately, Doherty is one of those players who can play well for 89 mins and the only mistake he makes leads to a goal. I feel is unlucky as apposed to poor.

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NN, shacks is 22 now ( I often think people still think he is a teenager) and has been in and around the squad for a few years.

 I like him, but if he is to move to a bigger club then he needs to hit his potential quickly.. if he gets to 24-25 and is still at Norwich then i dont think he will reach a higher level than the one he is at currently...

 Remember, we were all saying how Darren Kenton would be snapped up by a bigger side.. and whilst i feel he was (and still is ) A good defender.. he never reached his peak.. due to himself and, perahps, managers not helping him reach that peak... Shacks could go the same way.

jas :)

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I''m interested by your facts NN. Having to listen to most of the games, it sounds as if Doherty is guiltier than the other defenders of fouling in dangerous areas, which have led directly to goals conceded. In the three games I have managed to see this season he has appeared (IMHO) to be more at sea than Shackell.One of the debates is whether Doc is looking bad because he''s trying to compensate for Shacks, or vice versa? The only yardstick I''ve been able to use is how they perform with other partners. To the radio listener, Shacks has appeared more composed and a better defender, when partnered by Dublin - on yesterdays performance, the same could not be said about the Doc (although I noticed it was DD37 who conceded the dangerous free-kick that led to the goal, I think?).Another major factor, as mentioned above, is Goalkeeper influence. At the start of the season, Gally seemed very assured and distributed the ball imaginatively and to good effect. As more errors have crept into his game, so the defence has been more flustered as they don''t trust him. Maybe Marshall will help in this respect.

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As I have mentioned at the very start of this posting is that we MUST SPEND SOME MONEY!!!!

Whether DOC or SHACKS or FLEM or COLIN or DURY or SPILLANE are any good is upto Grant and his managment team to decide.

In the end we need another couple of defensive players and fast!!

Like I said -10 is CRAP!!!!! SPEND or DIE

 

FINAL

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Doherty regularly got the wrong side of Tamworth''s strikers and was one of the main reasons we looked shaky at times against a non-league team. Not only that but several times he was too late in spotting a midfielder running through. That''s not to say he isn''t the best we have though- the standard (apart from Dublin) has been very low the past couple of years. I have on several occasions espoused the complete overhaul of our defence but it has received woeful underinvestment at the expense of big name big money strikers, mediocre midfielders and a hotel.

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[quote user="Fat Barman"]I''m interested by your facts NN. Having to listen to most of the games, it sounds as if Doherty is guiltier than the other defenders of fouling in dangerous areas, which have led directly to goals conceded. In the three games I have managed to see this season he has appeared (IMHO) to be more at sea than Shackell.

One of the debates is whether Doc is looking bad because he''s trying to compensate for Shacks, or vice versa? The only yardstick I''ve been able to use is how they perform with other partners. To the radio listener, Shacks has appeared more composed and a better defender, when partnered by Dublin - on yesterdays performance, the same could not be said about the Doc (although I noticed it was DD37 who conceded the dangerous free-kick that led to the goal, I think?).

Another major factor, as mentioned above, is Goalkeeper influence. At the start of the season, Gally seemed very assured and distributed the ball imaginatively and to good effect. As more errors have crept into his game, so the defence has been more flustered as they don''t trust him. Maybe Marshall will help in this respect.
[/quote]

 I may have missed some but I think these are the goals we have conceded from free kicks:-

Leeds away: penalty Croft. Southend away: Free kick Safri. QPR away: Free kick Shackell. Stoke away: Penalty Ashdown. Leicester home: Free kick Shackell. Southampton away: Free kick Etuhu. Plymouth Home: Free kicks Doherty and Dublin.

I''m not sure who gave away the free kick that Blackpool indirectly scored from, FB says Dublin. And it should be said that the concensus of opinion was that the freekicks given away by Safri against Southend and Doherty against Plymouth were refereeing errors.

According to the official Football League stats Safri and Etuhu give away 50% more freekicks than Doherty and Shackell.

Robinson, Safri and Shackell have 6 yellow cards where as Doherty has 3. Of course Doherty had a red card against Burnley.

If Doherty is really more guilty of fouling in dangerous areas then he must be bribing the refs too.

I agree with you about the goalkeeper FB, as I said in an earlier post our back four may look better with a confident keeper behind them.

I still believe Doherty is our best central defender and I include Dublin in that. In my opinion our best pair is  Doherty and Dublin, but I would still play Doherty and Shackell in the hopes that together they can form a formidable partnership for the long term.

 

 

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Cheers NN, interesting indeed.I hope Doc maintains his high standards on Tuesday night, whoever he gets to play alongside.Witch-hunt suspended...stake and tinder ready for the next unfortunate...faggots  smouldering (what a metaphor for these boards!) [;)]

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