Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
GPB

One for the AGM. Delia and the bottle of Red Wine.

Recommended Posts

Curious. A subject avoided on here. Maybe for reasons of blind loyalty. Maybe for fear of getting the wrath of Eversheds from Ms Smiths Legal team .

We are sinking fast. So is the Red Wine Delia. Where are you? asked the comedically tipsy Ms Smith.

"Where is the money?" we cheerfully reply.

After three years of extraordinary money (premership plus parachute) we find ourselves outbid by Derby County.

17th, crap squad, novice manager, falling demand in the shop, bigger debt. Prudence with Ambition.

Another glass of Chateau Sainsbury''s Ms Smith.?

Why not. It might help us both forget.....

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="GPB"]

Curious. A subject avoided on here. Maybe for reasons of blind loyalty. Maybe for fear of getting the wrath of Eversheds from Ms Smiths Legal team .

We are sinking fast. So is the Red Wine Delia. Where are you? asked the comedically tipsy Ms Smith.

"Where is the money?" we cheerfully reply.

After three years of extraordinary money (premership plus parachute) we find ourselves outbid by Derby County.

17th, crap squad, novice manager, falling demand in the shop, bigger debt. Prudence with Ambition.

Another glass of Chateau Sainsbury''s Ms Smith.?

Why not. It might help us both forget.....

[/quote]

Bit rough, eh GPB, after all those Bollinger moments and Veuve Cliquot seasons between 1958 and 1995.

Thanks for the memories Arthur South, Geoffrey Watling and Robert Chase.

OTBC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A damn sight more to celebrate under their stewardship than delia''s!  A promotion to the premier league, Wow!! With very little ambition to stay there. Sorry, but our most successful period inthe clubs history was under Chase, What has happened since? Still in huge debt despite land investments by Chase. Still a selling club and nearing League 1. She and the board have made too many mistakes. its just a shame we cant transfer another board in. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

GPB, for somebody with a beard you are surprisingly ’Un-Guardian’ in your views!

For any thought of Eversheds to come rapping, tapping at your chamber door you would need to have committed libel, I think it is fair to say my hirsute chum you and the family Beard can sleep easy safe in the knowledge you are on safe ground.

Pass us the bottle of ‘Prudence with Ambition’ it’s a curiously pithy wine with a self serving aftertaste that invokes thoughts of bleak mid winters.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, Green my Dear Boy. At last someone who has nibbled at the bait. The thread just doesnt seem to have caught the imagination at all, and I thought that Delia and her love of the Grape would have invoked some debate.

Alas no. It seems that most on here would rather talk about whether or not someone called Wizzer and Chips, or Plastic Chicken,  should (or shouldn''t) be allowed to have the inalienable right  of every man (or women) to express himself (or herself) and in doing so rid himself (or herself) ... sorry where was I.?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="GPB"]

Curious. A subject avoided on here. Maybe for reasons of blind loyalty. Maybe for fear of getting the wrath of Eversheds from Ms Smiths Legal team .

We are sinking fast. So is the Red Wine Delia. Where are you? asked the comedically tipsy Ms Smith.

"Where is the money?" we cheerfully reply.

After three years of extraordinary money (premership plus parachute) we find ourselves outbid by Derby County.

17th, crap squad, novice manager, falling demand in the shop, bigger debt. Prudence with Ambition.

Another glass of Chateau Sainsbury''s Ms Smith.?

Why not. It might help us both forget.....

 

 

[/quote]

It could be worse....We might be "bin ends" next season sampling such delights as Chateau Rotherham (a mellow red)  or Merlot d'' Northampton (a punchy Burgundy).....all new to the Carrow Road "whine" list.........[;)]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="GPB"]

Curious. A subject avoided on here. Maybe for reasons of blind loyalty. Maybe for fear of getting the wrath of Eversheds from Ms Smiths Legal team .

We are sinking fast. So is the Red Wine Delia. Where are you? asked the comedically tipsy Ms Smith.

"Where is the money?" we cheerfully reply.

After three years of extraordinary money (premership plus parachute) we find ourselves outbid by Derby County.

17th, crap squad, novice manager, falling demand in the shop, bigger debt. Prudence with Ambition.

Another glass of Chateau Sainsbury''s Ms Smith.?

 

I have to laugh - at the prices charged in the Gunn Club, Ms. Smith must be the only one to be able to afford to fall over backwards under the influence of the red stuff (allegedly).  House Red my rear end!  More likely Stately Home Red!

Why not. It might help us both forget.....

 

 

[/quote]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I''m no accountant, GPB, but I would imagine that a large amount of the money has gone on building the Jarrold Stand, and running the club on matchdays (police, stewards, etc).  Another large amount will have gone on agents fees for Ashton, Earnshaw, etc, and then of course there is 9 million per year in players wages.It''s rather exciting to suggest that the money has been mismanaged or squandered in some hideous fashion, but I''m guessing that the truth is rather more boring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is interesting to look at that 9 million wage bill.  I am not sure if that is a PLAYERS bill or EMPLOYEE bill, but dividing it by 52, then by 30 players is still over 5k a week per player.  That demonstrates how badly some pf the players are taking the p*** out of us at the minute.

 

[quote user="blahblahblah"]I''m no accountant, GPB, but I would imagine that a large amount of the money has gone on building the Jarrold Stand, and running the club on matchdays (police, stewards, etc).  Another large amount will have gone on agents fees for Ashton, Earnshaw, etc, and then of course there is 9 million per year in players wages.

It''s rather exciting to suggest that the money has been mismanaged or squandered in some hideous fashion, but I''m guessing that the truth is rather more boring.
[/quote]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="blahblahblah"]I''m no accountant, GPB, but I would imagine that a large amount of the money has gone on building the Jarrold Stand, and running the club on matchdays (police, stewards, etc).  Another large amount will have gone on agents fees for Ashton, Earnshaw, etc, and then of course there is 9 million per year in players wages.

It''s rather exciting to suggest that the money has been mismanaged or squandered in some hideous fashion, but I''m guessing that the truth is rather more boring.
[/quote]

Neither am I thankfully, I think you will find a considerable amount of the cash requirement for the new South Stand came from the land sale on the scheme now nearing completion behind the River End. Off the top of my head this was around £6m.

Moving on, we now have the far thornier issue of the statement made by Roger Munby about two years ago at a previous AGM. Now at this point I would also point out that if anybody is feeling litigious at the club I am more than willing to any challenge over the way we were able to sign Dean Ashton.

This point has been raised several times before but seemingly goes against the mantra some seem hell bent on not believing. Dean Ashton was bought by the estate of Geoffrey Watling cancelling its loan to the club,  share holders not redeeming their shares and the full extent of Sky revenues being known.

So then Blah, either I am lying, Munby was lying or this is the uncomfortable truth so you tell me which one it is?

Oh and lets not forget that naughty old balance sheet which has mysteriously grown by nearly £8m in two years, how ever did that happen?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Bury Green"]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]I''m no accountant, GPB, but I would imagine that a large amount of the money has gone on building the Jarrold Stand, and running the club on matchdays (police, stewards, etc).  Another large amount will have gone on agents fees for Ashton, Earnshaw, etc, and then of course there is 9 million per year in players wages.

It''s rather exciting to suggest that the money has been mismanaged or squandered in some hideous fashion, but I''m guessing that the truth is rather more boring.
[/quote]

Neither am I thankfully, I think you will find a considerable amount of the cash requirement for the new South Stand came from the land sale on the scheme now nearing completion behind the River End. Off the top of my head this was around £6m.

Moving on, we now have the far thornier issue of the statement made by Roger Munby about two years ago at a previous AGM. Now at this point I would also point out that if anybody is feeling litigious at the club I am more than willing to any challenge over the way we were able to sign Dean Ashton.

This point has been raised several times before but seemingly goes against the mantra some seem hell bent on not believing. Dean Ashton was bought by the estate of Geoffrey Watling cancelling its loan to the club,  share holders not redeeming their shares and the full extent of Sky revenues being known.

So then Blah, either I am lying, Munby was lying or this is the uncomfortable truth so you tell me which one it is?

Oh and lets not forget that naughty old balance sheet which has mysteriously grown by nearly £8m in two years, how ever did that happen?

 

[/quote]

Such class Bury!........10/10 [*]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good debate on here punctuated by  I would imagine, rather exciting to suggest and I think you will find.

I''m not having a go.. because i don''t understand the Annual Reports either.

But we get sent them year after year so should these issues be as murky as is being suggested? Surely somebody who posts on here can understand the 48 pages we get sent each year! Is it really possible to be evasive about millions of pounds as in where the Dean Ashton money came from?

And just to cheer JC up a bit more, I thought the total staff costs were over 15m!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Good debate on here punctuated by  I would imagine, rather exciting to suggest and I think you will find.

I''m not having a go.. because i don''t understand the Annual Reports either.

But we get sent them year after year so should these issues be as murky as is being suggested? Surely somebody who posts on here can understand the 48 pages we get sent each year! Is it really possible to be evasive about millions of pounds as in where the Dean Ashton money came from?

And just to cheer JC up a bit more, I thought the total staff costs were over 15m!

[/quote]

But this is my point; Roger Munby stood in front of an entire AGM and told the assembled how the club were able to afford Dean Ashton, there is no conspiracy or skulduggery and it is the that the ‘Sum of all Blah’s’ seems to find hard to accept.

 

None the less without wishing to sound conceited I do have a fair grasp of the accounts and find the rate at which the balance sheet has grown very hard to swallow given the dross we have been watching.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A couple of responses:

To Blah I would say the point is seriously missed. no one is necessarily looking for plotting or intrigue but where we find ourselves now, given the amount spent ,MUST infer mismanagement EVEN IF it was not mischeivous. Allowing the club to fall into a position where it cannot compete with Derby County in the transfer market means exactly that.  Ommission is as culpable. To allow our transfer finances to be managed by Nigel Worthington BY NOT TAKING ACTION AT THE CORRECT TIME  is culpable in the extreme.

We need more money. And Delia should either put it in or stand aside and openly attract investors. My original point is , simply , that DS appears happy with her lot and would cheerfully see us in division 1 just so long as the Gunn Clubb is well stocked with Chateau Sainsbury.

To Bury Green I wholeheartedly agree. It seems that money DS put in is in fact "loaned" to the club. In turn the balance sheet of the club increases largely as a result of the increase in the real estate. therefore her security is increased. However the debt increases but is managed in such a way that the monthly repayments are "manageable" as the debt it treated as Long Term. All good news as far as the balance sheet is concerned. The notion that DS writes cheques out to the club out of the goodness of her own heart is misleading. Her share value has increased should a new buyer come into the club. In other words a win win on her part.

If Delia really wanted nothing but the best for NCFC , she would actively be seeking investment. It would mean her giving up some share or even control of the club but so what? Money is what it is all about at the end of the day and we dont seem to have enough of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote]To Blah I would say the point is seriously missed. no one is necessarily looking for plotting or intrigue but where we find ourselves now, given the amount spent ,MUST infer mismanagement EVEN IF it was not mischeivous. Allowing the club to fall into a position where it cannot compete with Derby County in the transfer market means exactly that.  Ommission is as culpable.[/quote]

Before we compare ourselves to Derby, I''m assuming you mean the Steve Howard situation in the summer, where Roger Munby said that we could afford him, but didn''t value him as highly as Derby.  There is a difference between competing in the transfer market and wasting money that can be used on other targets.

Derby County have a new board, and are taking a very aggressive approach towards attaining promotion.  They are competing directly with Birmingham City to be the biggest spenders in this league.  In the words of Peter Ridsdale they are "trying to live the dream", albeit not to the extravagant standards of Leeds in the 90s.  One could argue that the rewards of promotion outweigh any possible risks, given that the prize of being in the Premiership is at a higher value than ever.  But what if they don''t make it ?  I''d rather support us than Leeds or Forest right now (finishing in 3rd would leave Derby with the same long-term problems as these clubs, unless like the directors of Birmingham the board have endless amounts of cash), because I feel that we can turn it around quicker than they can, as we have a manageable debt, an infrastructure in place, and a squad that needs a few key players to turn our current players into a competitive team again.  Compare Carrow Road with Selhurst Park, and you will realise that when we have the infrastructure, all there is left to concentrate on is the playing staff.  Maybe you enjoyed the old chicken shed that was the South Stand, I''d prefer a stand that isn''t borderline-condemned, and if building the Jarrold Stand adds to the value of the overall business, and by extension the value of the share-holding of Smith and Jones, so what ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote] Neither am I thankfully, I think you will find a considerable amount of the cash requirement for the new South Stand came from the land sale on the scheme now nearing completion behind the River End. Off the top of my head this was around £6m.[/quote]

Well, an accountant took the time to look into this in a previous thread, and reckoned that NCFC''s loan to pay for it was outstanding at 14.1 million on 31/5/05, which is rather more than your 6 million from land sales.  The link gives more details.  Would the 14 million minus 6 million for the land sale explain the naughty extra 8 million on the balance sheet ?  Could that be explained by the fact that we have a stand now worth 8 million, and not a chicken shed worth 50p and a pack of smarties ?  Or am I showing my lack of understanding of accounts and giving a gross over-simplification ?  I rather think I might be. [:)]

http://new.pinkun.com/cs/forums/713623/ShowPost.aspx

[quote]
Understanding NCFC''s finance made easy

Part 1 The debt as at 31/5/05

In EASY to understand terms (e.g., putting advance receipts to one side - so long as we keep renewing our season tickets!):

At 31 May 2005:
---------------------
Jarrold Stand related loan £14,109k

Other loans re corner stand
and land £ 5,382k

Overdraft £1,157k

Provision in the 04/05 Accounts
re utilities work than had to be
done re flats development etc. £500k

SUB TOTAL £21,091k

less cash balance £2,990k

TOTAL £18,101k
-----------------------

Posted By: Financebod on WOTB
[/quote]

As for Mr Munby regarding Ashton, I don''t know what he said to get you so cross.  Maybe you could shed some light on this ?

Either way, you seem to be suggesting that sums of money for one thing should have been used in isolation for another, been ring-fenced, is that a fair summation ?  Business just doesn''t work like that, does it ? 

I agree that we are getting bad value for money from our players, when you see what they were capable of in August, some of them seem to have got into bad habits to get rid of Worthington and can''t seem to shake them off.  Maybe the players are trying to show the bosses who is boss ?  If that''s the case, a few P45s need to be issued.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Graham Paddon''s Beard

I am well out of my depth here in Club Accounts Land! But I wasn''t under the impression Delia and MWJ had invested large amounts of money into the club. I thought they were invited onto the Board for a modest investment in the aftermarth of Robert Chase going and later invested in the shares from Geoffrey Watling. Did they not then gain an even bigger shareholding through the share issue.

Go easy on me [;)]

Anyone else at Highbury that night when Graham Paddon scored a hat-trick in the quarterfinal of the leaue Cup?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="blahblahblah"]

[quote]To Blah I would say the point is seriously missed. no one is necessarily looking for plotting or intrigue but where we find ourselves now, given the amount spent ,MUST infer mismanagement EVEN IF it was not mischeivous. Allowing the club to fall into a position where it cannot compete with Derby County in the transfer market means exactly that.  Ommission is as culpable.[/quote]

Before we compare ourselves to Derby, I''m assuming you mean the Steve Howard situation in the summer, where Roger Munby said that we could afford him, but didn''t value him as highly as Derby.  There is a difference between competing in the transfer market and wasting money that can be used on other targets.

Derby County have a new board, and are taking a very aggressive approach towards attaining promotion.  They are competing directly with Birmingham City to be the biggest spenders in this league.  In the words of Peter Ridsdale they are "trying to live the dream", albeit not to the extravagant standards of Leeds in the 90s.  One could argue that the rewards of promotion outweigh any possible risks, given that the prize of being in the Premiership is at a higher value than ever.  But what if they don''t make it ?  I''d rather support us than Leeds or Forest right now (finishing in 3rd would leave Derby with the same long-term problems as these clubs, unless like the directors of Birmingham the board have endless amounts of cash), because I feel that we can turn it around quicker than they can, as we have a manageable debt, an infrastructure in place, and a squad that needs a few key players to turn our current players into a competitive team again.  Compare Carrow Road with Selhurst Park, and you will realise that when we have the infrastructure, all there is left to concentrate on is the playing staff.  Maybe you enjoyed the old chicken shed that was the South Stand, I''d prefer a stand that isn''t borderline-condemned, and if building the Jarrold Stand adds to the value of the overall business, and by extension the value of the share-holding of Smith and Jones, so what ?

[/quote]

Sounds like a good place to start. Pity we didn''t think of that one....................

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...