Nice one Rog - let's boost them ticket sales!

[South Norfolk Old Boy 0]

Having supported City for over 40 years I have to admit that this lot are beginning to scare me. Mr Munby says we are prepared for, and presumably budgeting for, relegation to League 1. This is the same Mr Munby who budgeted for us to go straight back down from the Premiership. OK, I hear you say – he was right on that occasion. But there is such a thing as a self fulfilling prophecy and I am genuinely concerned that this board, with its absolute and dogmatic following of the rules and principals of prudent accountancy and apparent lack of the first idea of how to run a football club, are about to lead 25,000 loyal followers into the abyss that is League 1. We are supposed to be comforted by the fact that the guru of football knowledge at the helm has a cunning plan to get us promoted back to The Championship (while budgeting for a fall to League Two of course). I can almost see his smiling face on the balcony at City Hall as we celebrate our return to The Championship in triumph.

 

Yes, I know that this board led us away from the Chase era but, hey, at least that guy left the club with property and land assets. This lot have finally sold off all the “crown jewels” around Carrow Road and we are still planning for relegation and £19m in debt. How long will it be before we hear of the plans to sell Carrow Road itself and lease it back? Not long I suspect. If a club cannot survive and hold it’s own with the highest crowds in the league how on earth do the others manage to survive. Some, we know, have benefactors, some have parachute money left. But the ones with benefactors are only offsetting smaller crowds than us and the ones with parachute payments left are at least investing that money in the team.

 

I am not suggesting for one minute that anyone on the board is feathering their nest or doing anything other than what they believe is in the best interests of the club. Maybe the time has just arrived when there is a need for a chairman who can INSPIRE the 25,000 supporters. At the moment, every time he opens his mouth it is to plead poverty or to announce to the Yellow Army that there is no need to worry because the General is planning for defeat in the battle and has everything sorted out for when it happens.

 

Promotion to the Premiership took everyone by surprise. Look back at the results and consider the nature of many of the wins and one can almost see again the jaws drop inside and outside the club as we marched so easily into the top flight. Mr Munby and his mates hadn’t budget for that one you can rest assured. They did, however, quickly announce that they were budgeting for an immediate return and, hey presto, they were proved right.

 

Please God he isn’t proved right again because we would find League 1 just as difficult to get out of as The Championship. Given that our Chairman is about as charismatic as his former manager (and don’t they look spookily alike) maybe the best thing he can do is join Delia, Michael and Andrew Cullen in keeping their heads firmly down for the time being or get some “talking sense lessons” from Neil Doncaster.

 

Plan away with the accountants as long as you like Mr Munby but leave us with some hope. Don’t expect to receive a round of applause at the next home game for your forward thinking, and don’t think for one minute that your statement is going to make us idiots believe that avoiding relegation equals a successful season and that all is well at Carrow Road.

 

 

 

[blahblahblah 2]

You are of course completely right Old Boy.  Rather than making plans for the possiblity of relegation (aswell as for staying up), we should of course stumble blindly into next season, without care for the financial consequences that such a disastrous outcome might bring.  Then we can look forward to a proper nightmare next season when the administrators get called in.

 

[Mr.Carrow 376]

    The current regime have a breathtakingly negative approach IMO. An unwritten rule of football is that if you aim low you tend to achieve lower-ambition and a very evident drive for success are absolutely vital in inspiring everyone connected with a football club. Without it a club tends to stagnate,drift, and then of course the ill-feeling and recriminations set in (sound familiar...?).

   One thing i find incredible is that the man still has the gall to promise supporters that should Earny be sold, the money would be invested in "the best quality replacements". The accounts for the last financial year showed a £6.2 million PROFIT in the transfer market. And we are STILL expected to swallow this c**p? The sad thing is that of course many will.......

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote] One thing i find incredible is that the man still has the gall to promise supporters that should Earny be sold, the money would be invested in "the best quality replacements". [/quote]

When Ashton was sold, the money was invested in Earnie, wasn''t it ?

[JC 0]

The worry Blah x3 is not that he made the comments, we would all be horrified if the club was not planning.  It is the fact that he does not say anything like ''we our throwing everything we have at staying up'' or ''the whole club is standing shoulder to shoulder to avoid this'' or ''this club is full of fighters and they need to start showing how they can fight'' etc etc.  Nothing positive is coming from the club, no bulldog spirit, nothing.  They are in trouble and now with Earnie gone, they need to stand up and bloody well be counted.  They have appointed a rookie manager in a time of crisis, and it is coming back to haunt them.

Where is Delia, the commander in chief??  Why is she not on a PR mission to units everyone to avoid this, or at least publicly addressing it.

You stuck up for Worthington, and now you are sticking up for a WEAK board.  Lets hope you are wrong twice.

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

You are of course completely right Old Boy.  Rather than making plans for the possiblity of relegation (aswell as for staying up), we should of course stumble blindly into next season, without care for the financial consequences that such a disastrous outcome might bring.  Then we can look forward to a proper nightmare next season when the administrators get called in.

 

[/quote]

[Chunky! 0]

In the enlightened opinions of Norwich fans, sensible financial planning just isn''t good enough!  I demanded at the start of the transfer window that the board fund a £10 million spending spree, to purchase Calum Davenport (£3m), Jason Koumas and Rowan Vine, and it hasn''t happen.  What a disgrace!!  We should be planning a late raid on the play-offs and then funding another spending spree to stay in the premiership!

HOW STUPID ARE YOU PEOPLE!!!!! HONEST TO BLOODY GOD!!!!!

What kind of management would we have at the club if they didn''t plan for these kind of situations!?  I hardly ever post on this site now, simply because the football talk has gone completely, and all we have left are people ranting about the poor management at the club?  Are you guys all absolutely mental?!  About the only problem with the management setup is none of our board have huge pockets!

[blahblahblah 2]

Thankyou Chunky, for a brief moment of sanity.

[charlies dad 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

[quote] One thing i find incredible is that the man still has the gall to promise supporters that should Earny be sold, the money would be invested in "the best quality replacements". [/quote]

When Ashton was sold, the money was invested in Earnie, wasn''t it ?

[/quote] WHAT B**SH*T  . You simply cannot be allowed to get away with statements like that. DO YOUR MATHEMATICS. 7.5 - 3.25 = ??????? And thats without Mckenzie and Green.

[Branston Pickle 3,638]

Quite what some fans expect is beyond me.  We have 1st Wiz almost glorifying in the fact that we are closer to relegation than promotion - which of course is factually true - yet when the club comes out and says that we have to consider that it might happen, people start slagging them off.  Amazing.

Along with any business//charity/organisation, all footballl clubs have to plan their budgets, and must incorporate into that planning best and worse case scenarios - for us best is clearly promotion, worst is relegation.  There really would be questions to ask about the general management of our Club if they didn''t.  This is pretty much the sum of what Munby has said, and anyone who disagrees is rather foolish, as the pink un article says.  IMO not one thing that Munby said is anything other than considered and sensible.

You are right that to put more positivity into things might be useful, but the article is written very specifically about the threat of relegation...for all we know it was a 10 min interview and this element only took up a small part of it, you have to bear the in mind that the media will pick and choose what bits it wants for its reports. 

[7rew 0]

sold ashton: 7 m rising to 7.5m

-33% sell on to crewe = 5 m

brought Earnshaw: 2.75m rising to 3.5m

difference is 1.5m

take off agents fees, Earnshaws signing on fee etc. we are left with about 250k-750k and probably at the low end of that.

Considering the terms of the payment deal for Ashton (4yrs) and Earnshaw (3yrs) the money is cut pretty close.

[Chunky Canary 0]

Well pointed out Charlies Dad. Blah should hold his head in shame and then take some lessons in maths.

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="Charlies Dad"]WHAT B**SH*T  . You simply cannot be allowed to get away with statements like that. DO YOUR MATHEMATICS. 7.5 - 3.25 = ??????? And thats without Mckenzie and Green. [/quote]

Oh dear.

We bought Ashton for 3.5 million pounds + 25% sell on fee.  Crewe made over 5 million from the two sales.  Which means we made less than 2.5 million on Ashton, except we didn''t because we paid his agent nearly 500,000k for renegotiating his contract - not doubt a similar amount for his original signing aswell.  Which leaves us about 1.5 million pounds ?  Earnshaw cost 2.75 million pounds, rising to 3.25 if we got promoted, I think.

Headline fees are generally inaccurate and meaningless, especially when you consider that payments are made in instalments, which means that transfer money available is probably based upon the regular installments coming in.

The Green and MacKenzie money would have gone on Cotterill, and to an extent it was probably a good thing it didn''t, because having the money available gives us a fighting chance in this transfer window.

[Mello Yello 2,281]

If the whole board resigned, and left Terry the kit-man and the Head Groundsman in charge............would anyone notice?

[charlies dad 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

You are of course completely right Old Boy.  Rather than making plans for the possiblity of relegation (aswell as for staying up), we should of course stumble blindly into next season, without care for the financial consequences that such a disastrous outcome might bring.  Then we can look forward to a proper nightmare next season when the administrators get called in.

 

[/quote]Why not stumble blindly into next season? We stumble blindly into every season. Why should next aseason be any different? Prudence with relegation.

[jetstream 0]

"especially when you consider that payments are made in instalments"

But surely we pay for our incoming players in instalments too - so that''s kind of irrelevant isn''t it?

[stroud canary 0]

Didnt we have a nice little pay off from Wigan when they stayed up as well - part of francis Deal.

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]But surely we pay for our incoming players in instalments too - so that''s kind of irrelevant isn''t it?[/quote]

The cashflow available for new transfers depends on factors which are not known by the public.  Are we being paid for Ashton over 36, 60, or even 90 months ?  If you knew that, and various other internal factors, you could get an idea of the cash-flow available for signings.  As it is we just don''t know so simple maths like 7.5 - 3.75 or whatever doesn''t apply.

[jetstream 0]

That''s exactly my point Blah - if you know the money is coming in (over 24 or 36 months or whatever) a business the size of NCFC can budget for it and pay for new players in instalments (perhaps that''s how we are paying WBA).

The fact that the money is ''in the pipeline'' means they can - if necessary - ask the bank for short-term funding to pay for napkins/players - the bank see that there is X amount of money coming in over the next X months and hey presto, the roundabout continues.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="7rew"]sold ashton: 7 m rising to 7.5m
-33% sell on to crewe = 5 m

brought Earnshaw: 2.75m rising to 3.5m

difference is 1.5m
take off agents fees, Earnshaws signing on fee etc. we are left with about 250k-750k and probably at the low end of that.

Considering the terms of the payment deal for Ashton (4yrs) and Earnshaw (3yrs) the money is cut pretty close.
[/quote]

Blimey, this sell on clause to Crewe just keeps getting bigger and bigger. Even Doncaster admitted that overall payments to Crewe amounted to less than £4 million. The sell on clause was only appliable to the PROFIT made on Ashton. Also bear in mind that the "add-ons" for the Earnshaw deal will be mainly tied up with the prospect of promotion which is not going to happen, therefore the £2.75m figure is the one to use. We are MUCH more likely to eventually recieve the Ashton add-ons. I`m afraid we are well and truly back to the Chase days of asset-stripping the team to fund an "obsession" (Munby`s words) with off-field activities.

[seat124 0]

Prudence with ambition, hey?

can anyone explain where that ridiculous saying has actually got us where we are today?

 

[Official Joe 0]

If West Ham signed a contract when signing Ashton and Green (which of course they would have), then whether they pay by instalments or not, the board can then reallocate that income and if Earnie''s transfer required dipping into the pot then they would rubber stamp that.  The club should be keeping money aside to pay off the 19m debt as we can''t pay it off early as we are charged for doing so, so therefore we can spend it knowning it will be replaced over time by West Ham.

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="charlies dad"][quote user="blahblahblah"]

You are of course completely right Old Boy.  Rather than making plans for the possiblity of relegation (aswell as for staying up), we should of course stumble blindly into next season, without care for the financial consequences that such a disastrous outcome might bring.  Then we can look forward to a proper nightmare next season when the administrators get called in.

 

[/quote]Why not stumble blindly into next season? We stumble blindly into every season. Why should next aseason be any different? Prudence with relegation.[/quote]

And blah wonders why the atmosphere is so negative on here. If occasionally you and other "optimists" conceded that all was not rosy in the garden , maybe we could try to understand.....but this endless protectionism is bizarre. We''re not daft....and we are quite capable of coming to conclusions of our own. To address the relegation issue in such a blase'' manner confirms all of the fears we "non believers" hold.

The whole club is stumbling blindly....and please allow us to make up our own minds on the facts, just as you do.

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="Joe"]

If West Ham signed a contract when signing Ashton and Green (which of course they would have), then whether they pay by instalments or not, the board can then reallocate that income and if Earnie''s transfer required dipping into the pot then they would rubber stamp that.  The club should be keeping money aside to pay off the 19m debt as we can''t pay it off early as we are charged for doing so, so therefore we can spend it knowning it will be replaced over time by West Ham.

[/quote]

Very logical Joe.....and nicely put........

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

Excellent analysis, Old Boy

OTBC

[blahblahblah 2]

I can''t believe I''m even rising to this, but here goes...

[quote]And blah wonders why the atmosphere is so negative on here.[/quote]

Painting the picture, claiming all is doom as if it''s fact.  The atmosphere is in fact partly positive, engendered from good activity in the transfer window, partly negative, as frustrations over the season come to a head with the AGM.  The backlash to Smudgers rants suggests that some people aren''t buying all the copy/paste rants and negativity though.

[quote] If occasionally you and other "optimists" conceded that all was not rosy in the garden , maybe we could try to understand.....but this endless protectionism is bizarre. We''re not daft....and we are quite capable of coming to conclusions of our own. To address the relegation issue in such a blase'' manner confirms all of the fears we "non believers" hold.[/quote]

Most people with no interest in melodrama don''t think we will get relegated.  This division is too poor, and the possible lifestyle change too scary to contemplate for the first team players for that to happen. The new signings will help to push us into mid-table by the end of the season. 

The purpose of debate is for people with differing opinions to share them, is it not ?  Wouldn''t be much of a debate if I was to agree with everything you said.  Nice use of "us and them" with the pidgeon-holing of people spread over a wide area who''ve never met - almost seamless, but a bit playground for my tastes.

[quote]The whole club is stumbling blindly....and please allow us to make up our own minds on the facts, just as you do[/quote]

No.  Some of our players can''t be arsed, and we''re getting hammered as a result.  These players haven''t been arsed since August, when they showed the potential that the side had.  Something must have happened behind the scenes to cause the loss of form, the players decided they''d had enough of Worthington, whatever.  Since then they''ve got into bad habits and not had the willpower to change them.  The lack of squad depth means that we have been unable to change the players until now under Grant.  There''s been some bad luck with injuries aswell, but too many players aren''t turning up, and that''s why we''re losing matches despite having the Championships top scorer.

The club is not stumbling blindly, the club is attempting to put into place corrective measures to address the problem, in the first opportunity it has had since Worthington left.  The club is also planning for all possible eventualities, to the "dismay" of people who you have pidgoen-holed as being in "your gang".

[quote] please allow us to make up our own minds on the facts, just as you do[/quote]

I have no interest in subverting your opinion.  I have an interest in trying to use common sense and facts where they are available to cut through the rubbish that exists in negative posting against our club, and there is a lot of that.  If you''ve got something bad to say, you''d better be able to back it up, or you''re going to look silly, unless of course I get it wrong, in which case I''ll look silly.  Is that ok with you ?

[Mello Yello 2,281]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

I can''t believe I''m even rising to this, but here goes...

[quote]And blah wonders why the atmosphere is so negative on here.[/quote]

Painting the picture, claiming all is doom as if it''s fact.  The atmosphere is in fact partly positive, engendered from good activity in the transfer window, partly negative, as frustrations over the season come to a head with the AGM.  The backlash to Smudgers rants suggests that some people aren''t buying all the copy/paste rants and negativity though.

[quote] If occasionally you and other "optimists" conceded that all was not rosy in the garden , maybe we could try to understand.....but this endless protectionism is bizarre. We''re not daft....and we are quite capable of coming to conclusions of our own. To address the relegation issue in such a blase'' manner confirms all of the fears we "non believers" hold.[/quote]

Most people with no interest in melodrama don''t think we will get relegated.  This division is too poor, and the possible lifestyle change too scary to contemplate for the first team players for that to happen. The new signings will help to push us into mid-table by the end of the season. 

The purpose of debate is for people with differing opinions to share them, is it not ?  Wouldn''t be much of a debate if I was to agree with everything you said.  Nice use of "us and them" with the pidgeon-holing of people spread over a wide area who''ve never met - almost seamless, but a bit playground for my tastes.

[quote]The whole club is stumbling blindly....and please allow us to make up our own minds on the facts, just as you do[/quote]

No.  Some of our players can''t be arsed, and we''re getting hammered as a result.  These players haven''t been arsed since August, when they showed the potential that the side had.  Something must have happened behind the scenes to cause the loss of form, the players decided they''d had enough of Worthington, whatever.  Since then they''ve got into bad habits and not had the willpower to change them.  The lack of squad depth means that we have been unable to change the players until now under Grant.  There''s been some bad luck with injuries aswell, but too many players aren''t turning up, and that''s why we''re losing matches despite having the Championships top scorer.

The club is not stumbling blindly, the club is attempting to put into place corrective measures to address the problem, in the first opportunity it has had since Worthington left.  The club is also planning for all possible eventualities, to the "dismay" of people who you have pidgoen-holed as being in "your gang".

[quote] please allow us to make up our own minds on the facts, just as you do[/quote]

I have no interest in subverting your opinion.  I have an interest in trying to use common sense and facts where they are available to cut through the rubbish that exists in negative posting against our club, and there is a lot of that.  If you''ve got something bad to say, you''d better be able to back it up, or you''re going to look silly, unless of course I get it wrong, in which case I''ll look silly.  Is that ok with you ?

[/quote]

But would you have kept Nigel Worthington? (in Hindsight?)

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]But would you have kept Nigel Worthington? (in Hindsight?)[/quote]

No.  It was obvious to everyone in the end that the players weren''t interested in working for him.  This time the players have nowhere to hide.

[Syteanric 1]

once the transfer is agreed then we have the money.. it might be being paid over install ments but we know we are getting say 7 million.

 If the buying club goes into administration the agreement still stands and the debt is still paid.

therfore we wont ever lose out...

so where are the signings?

jas :)

[nutty nigel 7,513]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

[quote]But would you have kept Nigel Worthington? (in Hindsight?)[/quote]

No.  It was obvious to everyone in the end that the players weren''t interested in working for him.  This time the players have nowhere to hide.

[/quote]

Even with hindsight peoples opinions are so varied. Some would never have appointed him in the first place while others would probably still have him here now. Lots of opinions on where Worthy went wrong have gradually changed because of the fact that Grant hasn''t been able to stop the rot in the way many fans expected. Look how the fans views on Paul McVeigh have changed. Posters are now saying the things Worthington himself was saying when they were using WLY as a stick to beat him with. Worthington had to go because the club never got out of the downward spiral after relegation. The timing for me, with my hindsight, was wrong and he should have gone as soon as we got to 50 points last season.

Blah says''s this time the players have nowhere to hide, but I disagree.

Some rubbish player performances last season and early in this were greeted with "we want Worthy out" chants from the fans. The players concerned, with the exception of Andy Hughes, got away with it. On Saturday against Plymouth some more rubbish performances were greeted by "are you watching Delia" from the fans. And as you see on this messageboard, with very few exceptions all the fans anger is vented at The Board and especially Delia.

Booing players of course is not the most helpful thing to do during a match but to give them a hiding place just helps create the comfort zone that the manager referred to today.

 

 

[BBFF 0]

The board proved they planned and budgeted for relegation when we were in the Prem by not buying a replacement for Iwan until the January.....just that one decision shows how much ambition on the pitch the board really has.