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10 years of Chase vs. 10 years of Smith

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The current board every time. They may not splash the cash around, but neither does the club get within 24 hours of going out of business whilst selling players left, right and centre. And whilst we were receiving all that cash in the Chase era for Sutton, Fleck etc how much did we spend? 950k on Newsome was the top signing. The current board have enabled us to sign Roberts, Ashton and Earnshaw all at record prices, and all great value for money. Chase was a nightmare. He was exceptionally lucky to have Dave Stringer and then Mike Walker bale him out. Without successful managers investing in youth we would be no more thanks to that ****.

 

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So do I, none the less by the vast majority of supporters it seems Robert Chase is still considered to be public enemy number one and Smith & Jones are beyond reproach.

On other threads on the message board I have suggested one of the biggest contributory factors in Robert Chase’s demise was the clubs bankers at the time. Back then it was quite normal for business to have a large part of their borrowings by way of an overdraft rather than by the term loan arrangement we see today.

In the clubs darkest hours you will find I think that its was the head of the banks corporate recovery unit who insisted on the repayment of the clubs overdraft (they are repayable on demand) that brought about the enormously damaging fire sales of Ashley ward, John Newsom etc

No doubt there will be plenty of contributors who will see this take on the end of Chase’s era as nothing other than revisionist history but unfortunately I know the evil sod who was head of corporate recovery at the time and asides from being one of the nastiest Binners you could ever meet took much pleasure in our demise as well.

Just as well we were left with all those lovely land assets though!

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The current board for financial management, corporate governance, support for the manager, transparency,trustworthiness and prudence.

The Chase board for managerial appointments, youth and scouting setup and ambition

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Under Chase:

4th in the 1st div, 3rd in the Prem a couple of low Prem finishes, 12th in the Prem a relegation to the "second" division, European football, sold all our best players, went massively into debt, and played enjoyable football on the whole, all but one season in the top division.

Under Smith

Low to middling "2nd" division finishes, a playoff final, a promotion, a half hearted season in the Prem, relegation to the "2nd" division, sold all our best players, went massively into debt (secured in no small part on assets secured by ......er Chase actually) and played businesslike at best but predominantly poor forgettable football on the whole and played all but one season in the second division.

Seems many selective memories can only remember the death throws of the Chase era because there''s no denying we performed vastly better as a club under him and imagine for a moment where we''d be if Chase had had access to £20,000,000 plus for each succesful season in the upper tier like Deli has.... The Smith regime got 30 odd million just for turning up for a season there, At todays rates the Chase "NCFC" would have generated well in excess of a hundred and fifty million pounds based on league position alone!!  Might not have needed to sell so many players with that kind of income.

And whilst we were receiving all that cash for Ashton,Francis,Green,McKenzie etc.etc. remind me again how much did we spend? -£13,250,000 according to the accounts.

 

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But didn''t the Chase investment in land etc around the ground give this lot the assets to sell to allow the purchase of Huck, Ashton etc?

 

 

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Ten years of unprecedented achievement, followed by the worst period in our modern history.

Unable to sink further personal funds into the club (and with modest income generated from usual inome streams/television monies) we always had to move players on at times when they had high value. However, Chase''s brilliance in transfer deal negotiation always enabled us to bring in more than adequate replacements.

We watched a magnificent quality of football and enjoyed a high level of success. We finished above half-way in the top division in 7 out of 9 seasons, including finishes of 3rd, 4th & 5th.Two FA cup semi-finals & those wonderful european games.

In the season he departed we were well placed for a return to the Premiership. We had debt of £6.9m, but player & land assets of high value. Indeed, the current board turned down offers for Eadie & O''Neill which would have brought in excess of £11m into the club shortly after they took over - this was confirmed by the new board in a note on the annual Accounts.

Despite cashing in on the land sale, receiving huge premiership income, substantial investment in share issues & the Geoffrey Whatling legacy money, we find ourselves with over £20m of debt and fighting a relegation battle. We have a manager who is clearly out of his depth, and on a lucrative contract with over 3 years to run.

FramCanary

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I much prefered the Chase era and have always stated the fact. The club was run in a much more integrated way. We brought youth through and cheap purchases from lower leagues and often sold them on for a tidy profit and repeated the process.

I never had a problem with Norwich being a selling club, because it was and still is the best way to survive. The land deals which Chase precided over have become extremely significant, which doesnt get much copy in the press.

Chase would of never put up with Worthington in the way that Delia and Wynn-Jones did. People go on about how much she cares about Norwich City, but does she really? In the context of decision making, she is helping the club go down the pan, which is in nobodys interests. Some people still think that she saved this club. She didn''t. Geoffrey Watling did.

Robert Chase was not perfect by any means - He had his faults and I was critical [as were many others] of elements of his style of Chairmanship, but when you look at the ten years of his reign versus the ten of Delia and Wynn Jones, it is a no contest.

Robert Chase. Robert Chase. Robert Chase.

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Chase years without a doubt... not that I would ever advocate having him back... he was no better than thi shower of sh**e we have here at the moment.

I probably did enjoy the 2003/04 Promotion Season more than any other though... probably due to all the other years of under achievement under Delia & Co

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Take any consecutive 10 years from the last 40 and the current 10 are the worst so I believe it''s kind of a loaded question. But to give a straight answer to the straight question,10 years under Chase was imeasurably better than the last 10 years.

However, it would only be fair to point out that what happened at the end of those 10 years have a bearing on what has happened over the last 10!

 

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we had our best spell ever under chase when alls said and done, but his time ran out. much like this bunch of muppets have now, they should go before the chase style hate developes when we go down.

also Chase did not have to invest too much in players we developed our own talent and what talent they were.sadly another side of city''s decline no youth coming through. You can moan all you like our youngsters are just not good enough.

so in all chase gets my vote, i have never brought into this Queen Delia rubbish, cant stand her.

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The Robert Chase years, every time, without a doubt. There simply is no argument here. We have become a laughing stock and a soft touch under Smith. Norwich City FC has completely lost it''s identity.

When Chase was here, what were we renound for? Free flowing, passing football with a mix of quality signings and quality youth. People didn''t think of Norwich then think "Ah, Robert Chase"

Under Delia? We are known as Delia''s club - "The club owned by that cook", "That team with the chairman who stumbled onto the pitch pissed up".

Which did you prefer?

No contest.

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A close friend of mine is connected to the club and has been for a decade or three.

Apparently for all his faults, Robert Chase sought advice and listened to the fans.

On the reverse side, cross Delia and Michael and you know it.

Time for a new Board.

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Chase every time. Great years...great teams.....and a roller coaster ride every season............

Delialalaland FC is dull, ineffective and a national laughing stock. Bring back the minimal £6 million pound debt years.....[Y]

 

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I''m not sure the 2 eras are comparable. Those 20 years have marked a vast change in the make up of domestic football, and the second 10 year period is intrinsically linked to result at the end of the first.

Asking the question is fair enough, but there are too many factors to come up with an accurate answer, and I''m assuming the actual question reads "Who do you prefer..."

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[quote user="mbncfc"]

I''m not sure the 2 eras are comparable. Those 20 years have marked a vast change in the make up of domestic football, and the second 10 year period is intrinsically linked to result at the end of the first.

Asking the question is fair enough, but there are too many factors to come up with an accurate answer, and I''m assuming the actual question reads "Who do you prefer..."

[/quote]

It would be accurate to call the Chase years fun...which they were....and the Smith years crap....which they are....

What is so complicated about that?........

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I''m not a fan of Delia and Jones for many reasons.  The whole wanting to be like Charlton when we went up was very worrying, surely Bolton or Portsmouth are better to aim, insted of a team always in the lower half of the table but are finacially stable!!

Another problem I have with Delia, is living in the midlands if you mention Norwich City, the first thing they say to you is ''Let''s Be Having You'' and believe me there is only so many times you can look amused by that!!

the complete lack of ambition of sticking with Worthy when things were going from bad to worse wasn''t very good either.

they have done a lot for the club, to be fair.  Delia''s catering bit does make the club money and the pie''s are a lot nicer than they used to be.  And of course we have the nice Polish flats in the car park!

 

As for Mr Chase, he knocked down the Barclay, he said Chris Sutton wasn''t for sale and then he put him up for auction, he wouldn''t give Mike Walker a longer contract so he left, he gave Gary Megson the mangers job twice - which in turn got us relegated in the first place, he lied to Martin O''Neill so he left, and when he did finally leave we found out that even though he had spent the best part of ten years selling off the silverwear, we were completly broke and close to going out of business!!!

Plus also, since Delia''s been in charge, i''ve not come close to being trampled by a police horse.

To conclude, my answer is Geoffrey Watling!

 

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[quote user="Cluck"][quote user="mbncfc"]

I''m not sure the 2 eras are comparable. Those 20 years have marked a vast change in the make up of domestic football, and the second 10 year period is intrinsically linked to result at the end of the first.

Asking the question is fair enough, but there are too many factors to come up with an accurate answer, and I''m assuming the actual question reads "Who do you prefer..."

[/quote]

It would be accurate to call the Chase years fun...which they were....and the Smith years crap....which they are....

What is so complicated about that?........

[/quote]

No it wouldn''t

It would be accurate to say more of the Chase years were fun and less of the Chase years were crap!

But it would also be accurate to say Chase didn''t inherit the mess he left behind.

 

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[quote user="Bury Green"]

So do I, none the less by the vast majority of supporters it seems Robert Chase is still considered to be public enemy number one and Smith & Jones are beyond reproach.

On other threads on the message board I have suggested one of the biggest contributory factors in Robert Chase’s demise was the clubs bankers at the time. Back then it was quite normal for business to have a large part of their borrowings by way of an overdraft rather than by the term loan arrangement we see today.

In the clubs darkest hours you will find I think that its was the head of the banks corporate recovery unit who insisted on the repayment of the clubs overdraft (they are repayable on demand) that brought about the enormously damaging fire sales of Ashley ward, John Newsom etc

No doubt there will be plenty of contributors who will see this take on the end of Chase’s era as nothing other than revisionist history but unfortunately I know the evil sod who was head of corporate recovery at the time and asides from being one of the nastiest Binners you could ever meet took much pleasure in our demise as well.

Just as well we were left with all those lovely land assets though!

[/quote]

so the chap was a binner eh? ask him if he was happy that all those Suffolk Bsuinesses (some may even of been under hsi tenure) went Bank rupt and all those ended up out of work when the Scum went into administration and had to pay a Haypenney for every million pund they owed. and if he loved our Demise so much, and is such a venerable financial Wizz, then perhaps he can explain why his beloved club are still paying the wages of 2 former managers and a player they got rid of 3 years ago?

id love to see the smug look on his face wane then!

jas :)

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just to add.. under the chase years (although sold) we had Woods, Gunn, Culverhouse, Fleck, Gordon, Bruce, Ekoku, Fox, Linighan, Townsend, Sutton, Eadie, Bowen, Polston, Newsome, Robins and Jerry Goss.

 none of them big signings, None of them big names.. yet all generated a huge profit, or served the club for years in some capacity. 5 of those names came through the youth setup.. with the exception of Gunny all the rest came from the Lower divisions or other clubs youth teams. and we enjoyed our best years... We didnt spend big, we had a board who could stand up to other boards.. talk selling prices up, and buying prices down, We had a new training complex built. Investing in youth development.

 A scouting set up second to none.

Land which should of generated huge profits (it hasnt really done so under the current crop) and someone who made us a force to be reckoned with!

 Id give anything to build a time machine and spend 90 minutes in Munich on a certain October night in 1993.

We WONT see that again under the current regime. a huge debt, no scouting system, a neglected youth policy, paying big money for big time charlies. the club died the day chase left some might argue.

I bet he sits in Halvergate hall wetting himself with laughter at us.

jas :)

 

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[quote user="Cluck"]

Chase every time. Great years...great teams.....and a roller coaster ride every season............

Delialalaland FC is dull, ineffective and a national laughing stock. Bring back the minimal £6 million pound debt years.....[Y]

 

[/quote]

Although I protested in the ''Chase Out'' days, I''d take him back over the cook any day!. He''d never put up with Doomcaster either.

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[quote]It would be accurate to call the Chase years fun...which they were....and the Smith years crap....which they are....

What is so complicated about that?........[/quote]

There is nothing complicated about that, it is an over-simplification which ignores pretty much every reason why the club is where it is now.  It ignores the massive effect of dropping out of the Premiership the season after Sky started ploughing large sums of cash into that league. It ignores the collapse of ITV Digital, which messed up pretty much all football league teams to some extent. It ignores rule changes to transfers, the Bosman ruling, the move from the 3 foreigner rule to the free-for-all we have now - where we could get into the top 6 in the early 90s with decent club players that were never going to get a game for England, these days top 6 teams like Bolton have a team of full internationals and the Premiership is the league that most of World football wants to play in.It ignores the perilous position that the current owners received the club in, largely thanks to Chase, who regardless of Bury Greens'' opinions, did hold responsibility for the finances of the club, and allowed the club to be manouvred into those "fire sales".  "Brilliance in negotiating transfers" indeed. [:|]It ignores the neccesity to replace the South Stand, which is the main reason for the debt that you and others are so happy to claim "financial mismanagement" about.Some of you sound like a wistful woman, longing for the ex who spent all your money and took you for a wild ride, and wanting to go back to him, instead of sticking with the Mr Sensible who picked you up and dusted you down when he left you in pieces.  It might be boring, but we still have a club.

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[quote user="Cluck"][quote user="mbncfc"]

I''m not sure the 2 eras are comparable. Those 20 years have marked a vast change in the make up of domestic football, and the second 10 year period is intrinsically linked to result at the end of the first.

Asking the question is fair enough, but there are too many factors to come up with an accurate answer, and I''m assuming the actual question reads "Who do you prefer..."

[/quote]

It would be accurate to call the Chase years fun...which they were....and the Smith years crap....which they are....

What is so complicated about that?........

[/quote]

Nothing at all. I would prefer to be in the top flight with home grown players, punching above our weight and famous for attractive football - everyone''s second favourite team. That is very far removed from where we are and where we''ve been for some time - probably 12 years.

My issue is with what the question implies, which I think you realise anyway. In today''s football, no team will finish 3rd in the Premiership when tipped to finish bottom and having spent no money - teams don''t even stay in the league unless they spend millions of pounds. It was a surprise last season when Wigan finished midtable, despite having millions of pounds pumped into them and spending a huge amount on players. Reading are doing well and will stay up I''m sure, but the season hasn''t finished yet so it is open to debate as to where they''ll finish.

We were relegated under Chase''s stewardship and the financial scars of that time were an issue for about 5 years into Delia''s time.

And when we did go back up, we got it wrong on several levels.

It is not a defence of where we are now. I''m not blind. Some serious improvement is needed and quickly, otherwise relegation will happily swallow us up.

I know people love to label things - of course you can call a whole 10 year period crap and another fun, and that makes everything seem simple. Personally, I think it is more complicated than that and, as this thread is really asking the question who do you prefer, the very circustances each has worked in have changed. There is no control situation to compare things to.

It is the whole fickle nature of football. I loved Chase when we were in Europe and when we grabbed Martin O''Neill. Somehow I didn''t feel the same we almost went into administration. The same fluctuations apply to the current board (which includes Delia, but of course she isn''t Chair)...

I could go on, but I think I''ve made my point clear enough, so I''ll stop [:)] [8-|]

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What mess?.

The new board inherited an excellent bunch of young & valuable players - worth well in excess of the £6.9m net debt. It also inherited land with a rising value and a team in a healthy league position (especially compared to our current league standing!).

Conversly, Chase inherited an aging squad which had also been relegated from the top-flight. He re-mortgaged his property (against his wife''s wishes) and put the money into the club. Amongst his first tasks was getting our telephone line re-connected!.

HE LEFT THE CLUB IN FAR BETTER CONDITION THAN THE MESS HE INHERITED FROM THE SIR ARTHUR DAYS.

FramCanary

 

 

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

I bet he sits in Halvergate hall wetting himself with laughter at us.

jas :)

 

[/quote]

I bet he doesn''t because the one thing that Geoffrey Watling, Arthur South, Robert Chase and Delia Smith do have in common is the love of a true fan to their Football Club. Of that I have never had a doubt and the club has had some good times under all. With nobody seemingly ready to step to the plate if posters get their way and "sack the board" can we be sure that we would be able to say the same of the next chapter in the history of our club.

 

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I understand peoples dislike of our current board even if i don''t 100% agree with it but Robert Chase was never liked (can''t remember much before 1990) and by the end the level of hatred towards the man was immense. I will never forget going to all the protests as a kid and remembering the elation felt by all when he finally left. I just don''t see or hear that level of feeling towards our current board when i speak to people and go to games.Robert Chase lost us Martin O''Neil for that i will never forgive him, our current board are clearly better for the club than chase was although obviously the 10 years under chase were far more entertaining. If he''d have been allowed to continue though there would be no NCFC.

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[quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"]I understand peoples dislike of our current board even if i don''t 100% agree with it but Robert Chase was never liked (can''t remember much before 1990) and by the end the level of hatred towards the man was immense. I will never forget going to all the protests as a kid and remembering the elation felt by all when he finally left. I just don''t see or hear that level of feeling towards our current board when i speak to people and go to games.

Robert Chase lost us Martin O''Neil for that i will never forgive him, our current board are clearly better for the club than chase was although obviously the 10 years under chase were far more entertaining. If he''d have been allowed to continue though there would be no NCFC.
[/quote]

Yes, it is quite unbelievable that there is not the same level of protest aimed at the fools running the club. However, a tide of unrest and anger is gathering momentum & similar scenes may return.

O''Neill threw his toys out of the pram when Chase refused to sanction his proposed £1.3m acquisition of an unproven Dean Windass. Three months later the player moved from Hull to Aberdeen for 625k!. When O''Neill was tempted to Carrow Road by Chase & his board, he stated that the level of transfer budget was of no interest to him. However, he soon got through a significant amount of non-existant finance when purchasing a past-it Fleck (650k) & Rush (375k).

If Chase had stuck it out we would almost certainly be in much better shape than now - could it be any worse?

FramCanary.

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