I back Grant

[Chunky Norwich 0]

I always make a point of not trying to say anything contentious because I believe in the whole free-speech thing and who am I to censor anybody? However I''ve sat back and sat back and watched all the anti-Grant vitriol coming from many people on this message board. I''m really sorry but it just beggars belief. What did people expect him to have done by now? Got us into top spot? Signed Beckham? The irony is that (I apologise to a lot of people who HATE these terms) I used to be firmly in the WO (sorry!) camp and got very angry with the board and players, as well as Worthington, for what was going on at the time. This may sound ridiculous but I still blame Worthington for the shambles we are in now and NOT Grant. What can Grant do with the squad he has? Name me a manager who could get us promoted with two goalkeepers, one a clown and one an untried 17-year-old (or whatever), one leftback, arguably only one rightback, no left winger etc etc. And a squad including Robinson, Hughes, Etuhu, Thorne, McVeigh, Louis-Jean, Doherty and Fleming. Name me a better starting XI than the one which was put out today - with the exception of WHY (as it now seems he has become).

I apologise for going on a bit and I also must state that I am NOT happy with the way that things are going right now. But how do you motivate the players we have here? Three quarters are absolute rubbish and the other quarter are quite clearly not happy with the way things are going and already appear to be thinking about their Summer holidays. I must also state that I was fairly bemused when Grant was appointed. Delia took a lot of flack for sticking with Worthy because they were close friends but in the end she finally sacks him and replaces him with....a close friend. Hmmm. But he''s here now and he appears to be saying the right things and kicking some backsides. His post-match comments are as follows:

 "We were poor. In the second half it went from worse to worse. To concede two goals from free-kicks beggars belief. Too many players were mentally weak, content to pass the buck to someone else. It was unacceptable. We do not give ourselves a chance when we play like that. Too many players are in the comfort zone. The group will be changed, make no mistake about that."

Bravo! Name me another manager who would have said that. For all those posters who are moaning about how rubbish the team are, look; Grant agrees with you! But what can he do? All these rubbish players are on long contracts for big wages. So far, Grant has bought Luke Chadwick for £220,000 and a 22-year-old 6''3" target man for £325,000. That''s not too bad. I couldn''t make the game today and I have no idea how poorly we played nor how well Brown played but I just still can''t believe all this Sack Grant rubbish. What happens if, hypothetically, he were fired tomorrow? What''s the best that could happen?

And mature reasoned debates please people. I''ve tried to be polite and have not named names nor make personal comments.

[Bury Yellow 2]

Totally agree Forbes 17.

There was always the suspicion that Grant was appointed ''on the cheap'' but I think he has the makings of a top manager. I appreciate that we can all argue that with the terrible position Worthy left us in we really needed a proven manager but I do think this ''Grant out'' reaction is a bit premature.

In my opinion the main thing he has failed to address is the coaching team. We have a first team coach in Hunter who has no right to be here if qualifications are anything to go by. What has he done? What has he achieved? Well he is a disciple of Les Reed....you know, the bloke who ruined Charlton....I think Grant has relied too much on Hunter and Livermore too advise him on who to play.

Granty - Get your own team in and bloody quick!

You cannot judge Grant by his comments. He can''t say to the media player x is ..ap. For example, he sung the praises of Fleming and within two more games he was dropped, he sung the praises of Robinson and Hughes - they too have now been relegated to the subs bench. He obviously now is satisfied that Doherty needs to play for Bury St Edmunds(!!!) and he has never rated Gallacher.

I am a great supporter of a lot of what Cluck and Ist Wizard et al contribute to this debate but hey folks give Grant a chance. The biggest problem is the board and I will be at the AGM hopefully to give em a bit of stick. Mind you I have vowed to do that in previous AGM''s but the ''New Labour brick wall and spin'' you get when you are there tends to make you think b.....ks to this, it''s a waste of time I''ll keep quiet!!

This year might well be different and I appeal for all normal intelligent supporters who attend to get hold of that microphone and tell these losers just what we think.

I thank you

[Pyro Pete 2,353]

[quote user="Forbes17"]

 I''m really sorry but it just beggars belief. What did people expect him to have done by now?

[/quote]The board expected Peter Grant to have done a better job than Worthington by now with these players. Otherwise they would not have sacked Worthy and replaced him with Grant, would they? Yet here we are, several months later, with no improvement.What worries me more, is after each match Grant tells Radio Norfolk how the players are not listening to him, are not taking on board what they work on in training, and simply won''t respond to his management. This says it all.

[Dicky 0]

Well said Forbes - by the way, we were truly rubbish.

[Infamy, Infamy 1]

A well reasoned post which makes sense. Just wait for the ranting mob to get a hold of it though![:D]

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

I agree that he hasn''t a great squad to pick from but

 

1) He seems as unwilling to use youth players as worthington was. Chris Martin following in Ryan Jarvis''s footsteps as benchwarmer when we needed a goal epitomises this, if he had been 25 he would have been brought on.

2) He has publically critisized a fair few of our players now - If this keeps going on he will lose the dressing room

3) Many of our players seem to be getting worse and worse as each match goes by - Hucks, Shackell, Gallacher and Drury to name but four.

4) The defense has slipped back to being the total shambles that it was earlier in the season.

5) Why do we still have the same backroom staff??

6) Why is Drury still captain.  A player without any attributes of a good captain??

7) He even crirtisized the fans, a bit rich from a man whom had already made a fair few errors of judgement in his short space of time before it happened.

8) The Safri buisiness, we didnt win a single league game during the time the fans and players were calling for him to start. Well apart from one he actiually played for 70 minutes due to someone elses injury. Vittal points lost for the upcoming relegation battle.

I hope he proves me wrong, I fear he will lose the dressing room first.

[andy laz 0]

I agree 100% with your post and i have to say  this club has been

run like a bad joke since we were relegated .The board clung to this

romantic notion that we could follow the blue print created by Charlton

it didnt happen , we the fans who follow  in our thousands

are  now more often than not are served up second rate

performances from  a team inherited from worhington .So until he

shipps out the deadwood and brings in his it is out of order to call

for his head OTBC

[Smeg 0]

i agree, its still worthingtons team, u cant judge grant until hes had a summer transfer window to build his own team, i think we were just hoping he could inspire what we had already.

some players have the potential eg etuhu, but we cant afford to keep humoring them until they find form, are position isnt strong enough for that, at the moment, etuhu seems like he as no direction on the pitch and a fear of the ball.

not including anyone under 20, the only players i think should be retained are drury, shackell, croft, safri, hucks, earnie, dublin and colin, not going to comment on brown until ive seen him play a couple of whole 90 mins. the cameo yesterday didnt really give him the chance.

 

[Old Shuck 291]

Yes, I''m backing him at the moment.

Sacking him is a no brainer. A three and a half year contract to pay off, can we afford to do that? Naturally, theres an argument that says can we afford not to, so, putting that forward, what sort of quality Manager could we expect to get in place of him? Potential candidates would realise that they would be coming to a club with no money to spend (what we had would have gone on Grants payment); as poor a squad as we''ve ever had, both in numbers and ability; and a youth system that, despite massive investment, isn''t producing the goods. In addition to that, his first act would probably have to be to sell Earnie...

How attractive would that be to a potential new Manager? Not an established one, not an experienced one, not the sort that we would want, hope to attract, not many of the names that would be bandied about on this and other sites.

Through necessity it would be another Grant-type figure, Keen and ambitious to move on in the game but, never-the-less, inexperienced and relatively unknown, a coach or Asst Manager somewhere.

I said, on the day he was appointed, that I wouldn''t want to judge him until the end of next season. I''m sticking by that at the moment. However, there is an urgent and demanding requirement for drastic change, he has advocated it and I hope he follows through and that the team vs Burnley reflects that.It IS time to give some of the younger players a run of games, yes, theres pressure, but thats part of the game, they have to handle it, just as players like Bale at Southampton and Barnes at Derby have, to name two. Was there pressure on them from fans to perform, of course there was! They adapted, they are now good players and valuable assets for their clubs. We need to put faith in our youngsters as well, long term especially, if they turn out to be as good as we hope.

Rossi Jarvis deserves a run-in his best position and remaining there. Ditto Spillane. And some others. As Grant has said, too many players ARE in the comfort zone-week in, week out, they play, no matter what. I''m not naming names but we know who they are, do they-maybe they will when the teamsheet is put up next week? And, far from shuffling him out to Bournemouth or whereever, isn''t it the right time now to bring Fleming back into the equation? Surely he remains a better option than the Doc?

It would also be good to see Grant given the chance to bring in his own backroom staff. He toed the line when appointed by saying he was happy with what he''d got. Webb went off to Lynn, he said he''d bring his own man in and "was looking"-but, lo and behold, the club promote Ricky Martin-not wanting to rock the boat or not being able to afford a new man and salary? By all accounts, Martin Hunter is on a massive salary, I''d like to know how he earns it at present, I see no definite change in playing style or attitude, and, according to some, the 4-5-1 is his preferred formation, one which doesn''t suit us, and which we don''t have the players for anyway.

I''d like to see evidence of change and attitude beginning to emerge as swiftly as this week. Sadly and inevitably, I think what is more likely is the usual spin-Neil D will have his say, a player will be wheeled out to say how they are looking ahead bla bla bla. The time between now and the end of the month is crucial, forget play off''s now, the club needs to regroup, rebuild, start something new and give us reason to hope that next season will be a vast, vast improvement on this one, last one and yes, the one before that ("little old Norwich"-haven''t heard much "little old Reading" talk this season, they''ve just gone out and got on with it and good for them!); hell, play off''s, even next season isn''t essential for me, what is, is a club and team with good players, playing good football, and looking forward again, rather than, as they are now and in perfect harmony, going and looking backwards.

[silver fox 0]

[quote user="Forbes17"]

I always make a point of not trying to say anything contentious because I believe in the whole free-speech thing and who am I to censor anybody? However I''ve sat back and sat back and watched all the anti-Grant vitriol coming from many people on this message board. I''m really sorry but it just beggars belief. What did people expect him to have done by now? Got us into top spot? Signed Beckham? The irony is that (I apologise to a lot of people who HATE these terms) I used to be firmly in the WO (sorry!) camp and got very angry with the board and players, as well as Worthington, for what was going on at the time. This may sound ridiculous but I still blame Worthington for the shambles we are in now and NOT Grant. What can Grant do with the squad he has? Name me a manager who could get us promoted with two goalkeepers, one a clown and one an untried 17-year-old (or whatever), one leftback, arguably only one rightback, no left winger etc etc. And a squad including Robinson, Hughes, Etuhu, Thorne, McVeigh, Louis-Jean, Doherty and Fleming. Name me a better starting XI than the one which was put out today - with the exception of WHY (as it now seems he has become).

I apologise for going on a bit and I also must state that I am NOT happy with the way that things are going right now. But how do you motivate the players we have here? Three quarters are absolute rubbish and the other quarter are quite clearly not happy with the way things are going and already appear to be thinking about their Summer holidays. I must also state that I was fairly bemused when Grant was appointed. Delia took a lot of flack for sticking with Worthy because they were close friends but in the end she finally sacks him and replaces him with....a close friend. Hmmm. But he''s here now and he appears to be saying the right things and kicking some backsides. His post-match comments are as follows:

 "We were poor. In the second half it went from worse to worse. To concede two goals from free-kicks beggars belief. Too many players were mentally weak, content to pass the buck to someone else. It was unacceptable. We do not give ourselves a chance when we play like that. Too many players are in the comfort zone. The group will be changed, make no mistake about that."

Bravo! Name me another manager who would have said that. For all those posters who are moaning about how rubbish the team are, look; Grant agrees with you! But what can he do? All these rubbish players are on long contracts for big wages. So far, Grant has bought Luke Chadwick for £220,000 and a 22-year-old 6''3" target man for £325,000. That''s not too bad. I couldn''t make the game today and I have no idea how poorly we played nor how well Brown played but I just still can''t believe all this Sack Grant rubbish. What happens if, hypothetically, he were fired tomorrow? What''s the best that could happen?

And mature reasoned debates please people. I''ve tried to be polite and have not named names nor make personal comments.

[/quote]Peter Grant could help his own cause if he realised that you firstly need to build from the back, and that means a back four of Drury, Shackell, Dublin and Colin.  They have been our best combination by a mile, but unless Doherty is injured or suspended then Grant doesn''t play them together.  Now that we have a target man in Brown I would like to see Grant put Dublin in the back four and make him captain.

Secondly, for all his potential as a box to box man Etuhu just doesn''t turn up for enough games and doesn''t put in enough effort, so Grant must be brave and drop him.  I would rather see a youngster like Rossi Jarvis or Micael Spillane who I know will at least try. 

 Thirdly, Paul McVeigh clearly has no intention of putting in any effort for this club, however many chances you give him.  Either play Jarvis, or if you are going to put Martin on the bench then give him a chance.

I know Grant has inherited a fairly weak squad, but yesterday was an ideal opportunity to play Brown up front and put Dublin in the back four, but he didn''t do it, and quite frankly that worries me. Perhaps he is still being influenced by Hunter and Livermore.  I don''t want to see Grant sacked, but he needs to back up his words with some actions.  I know it is a small squad but there are some options he hasn''t even tried.  A hard working inexperienced younster is perhaps a better option than a lazy experienced professional.

I never boo the players or chant what a load of rubbish, I express my views by not applauding them off the pitch.

[ricky knight 0]

i suggest you go for a lay down in a darkened room, this man is hopeless, i dont back him, i did''nt want him in the first place and we have gone even further backwards imo, with him in charge.

[gangmower 0]

totally agree.had an argument yesterday about grant.its worthingtons fault.

[Huddy 0]

We wont be able to asses Grant untill the start of next season, some will say thats too late but it is the only fair time you can asses him. He cant do much about worthingtons deadwood till hte summer, when they can be released freeing up wages. Grant will have to do have a mass influx and mass outgoings before next season.

[Woodford Canary 0]

Agreed - the fault is with the unbalanced squad he inherited.  That is why urgent transfer activity is needed

[JC 0]

So you advocate a club in a downward spiral, with disunity off the field, recruiting a ROOKIE manager then?  And when shall we judge our rookie manager, when he gets us promoted from league one?

His appointment was a SAFE option by a GUTLESS board who are more concerned with keeping a low profile and hoping it all works out ok in the end than taking big decisions.  Gutless the lot of them.

I hated Grant as a player, he was a side-passing, arm waving shouter, and his management is much the same.

Get him out now before it is to late.

[The Voice of the Thorpe Area 0]

I''m afraid that some ''permantly negatives'' on this board are purely that! To be wanting PG out is beyond belief. Judge him when he has his own players out on the pitch.

[ronbol ronbol 0]

what a lame excuse - "it''s not his team"utter rubbish. he new what he was taking on when he went for the interview.So no excuseSACK GRANT NOW

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

Brian Laws has done a good job with someone elses team at Sheffield Wednesday.

[John Boubepo 0]

The job of a manager is to manage, that often means manage with what you''ve got, Worthington was a poor manager, If Grant is better than Worthington then we would have at least seen some improvement however small, the fact that we have actually gone backwards suggests he is worse than Worthington or in other words worse than poor.For those who say "let him bring in his own team before you make up your mind about him" - while we are waiting the 3 or 4 years for that to happen, can any of you name me one area of the club which has improved since Worthington left and Grant took over?

[Chunky! 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

2) He has publically critisized a fair few of our players now - If this keeps going on he will lose the dressing room

[/quote]Wasn''t a critism laid at Worthy''s door that he didn''t critise players?

[Coelho 0]

[quote user="JC"]

So you advocate a club in a downward spiral, with disunity off the field, recruiting a ROOKIE manager then?  And when shall we judge our rookie manager, when he gets us promoted from league one?

His appointment was a SAFE option by a GUTLESS board who are more concerned with keeping a low profile and hoping it all works out ok in the end than taking big decisions.  Gutless the lot of them.

I hated Grant as a player, he was a side-passing, arm waving shouter, and his management is much the same.

Get him out now before it is to late.

[/quote]So how long do you give the new guy, then? Another three months? Then

another three years'' wages paid off when you sack him as a knee-jerk

reaction?

We all know that Worthy was retained too long, but large groups of

supporters wanted Worthy out from about three minutes after he was

appointed - a bit of patience, a bit of rebuilding and a bit of

financial backing and he delivered us a championship title. Come the summer, I think there will be big changes - it''s difficult to make wholesale changes in the transfer window because you''re never more than a week away from your next game, and other clubs have injuries, suspensions etc. to worry about too. In the summer we''ll have a clear three months to clear out the deadwood, get rid of the slackers and bring in new faces. Until then, we''re just going to have to deal with it - if the ''Grant Out'' campaign kicks off and we end up with the poisonous atmosphere returning, how the hell are we going to attract quality players and hang on to people like Earnie, Saf and Hucks?I''ve got a season ticket, by the way, and yes it''s painful to watch, yes we look clueless and spineless, but constantly trying to sack everyone and everything really isn''t going to help this club move forward.

[Coelho 0]

[quote user="John Boubepo"]For those who say "let him bring in his own team before you make up your mind about him" - while we are waiting the 3 or 4 years for that to happen, can any of you name me one area of the club which has improved since Worthington left and Grant took over?[/quote]But more to the point, we waited for it to happen with Worthington, and it happened, after several years of looking absolutely appalling. These things take time. Worthy stayed too long, and the board showed far too much patience and sentiment IMO, but the guy''s been in charge for three months. He''s been able to sign players for two weeks. Is it really worth blowing the best part of a million pounds to replace him with someone who might be no better?The argument has come full circle - the fans wanted rid of Worthy (myself too), and we replaced him with someone who has done no better, so far. How many times can you sack someone after three months of underachieving before you stop and say ''hang on, we''ve got to give him a chance''? I really don''t think we can risk letting it happen again - we need to give Grant more time. I think the board should have been more ambitious with their appointment, but we''ve got him now, so we may as well give him a fair crack of the whip.

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]Brian Laws has done a good job with someone elses team at Sheffield Wednesday.[/quote]

Yes...but we''re not supposed to look at that are we?...........[;)]

[Pudd 1]

What''s improved? Well we''ve got a mamager that recognises the problems with the team, is trying to do something about it and is totally honest about the teams performances. I think Grant will be a very good manager if he gets the chance to prove it. The thing that really needs to change now though is for some of Grant''s passion to be reflected by the players on the pitch. JP

[arrdee 2]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

I agree that he hasn''t a great squad to pick from but

 

1) He seems as unwilling to use youth players as worthington was. Chris Martin following in Ryan Jarvis''s footsteps as benchwarmer when we needed a goal epitomises this, if he had been 25 he would have been brought on.

2) He has publically critisized a fair few of our players now - If this keeps going on he will lose the dressing room

3) Many of our players seem to be getting worse and worse as each match goes by - Hucks, Shackell, Gallacher and Drury to name but four.

4) The defense has slipped back to being the total shambles that it was earlier in the season.

5) Why do we still have the same backroom staff??

6) Why is Drury still captain.  A player without any attributes of a good captain??

7) He even crirtisized the fans, a bit rich from a man whom had already made a fair few errors of judgement in his short space of time before it happened.

8) The Safri buisiness, we didnt win a single league game during the time the fans and players were calling for him to start. Well apart from one he actiually played for 70 minutes due to someone elses injury. Vittal points lost for the upcoming relegation battle.

I hope he proves me wrong, I fear he will lose the dressing room first.

[/quote]

Exacly Foggy,my sentiments to the T , i could have said the same myself .

[GMF 1,010]

I agree with most of what you say Forbes17, Peter Grant really has to be judged by the team he builds, not the one that he inherited.

However, unfortunately for him, time''s not on his side. He had the misfortune to see the transfer window close on him shortly after he arrived and now he''s got one month to sort out a multitude of problems that he''s inherited. Many more performances like yesterday and it won''t be just the support of the team he loses, but the majority of the fans and, eventually, the Board too.