Gary doherty

[jjohnny 0]

Gary doherty was our most improved player last season.Why all of a sudden has he become alot of peoples whipping boy.Are you telling me he has become a bad player over the summer break.I honestly believe the biggest problem we have got is a huge loss of confidence.The reason behind this is anyones guess ,my own opinion is this 1 The way the board handled nigel worthington''s  sacking,he should have gone before the end of last season 2 Giving the job to a complete novice with no managerial experience at all 3The continuing  whinging about being skint all the time and only in the postion to buy bargin basement. I would welcome anyone elses comments on these views

[Huddy 0]

He wasnt good last season, he makes loads of errors but then makes good last ditch tackles half the time which wouldnt be necceary if he had done his job in the first place. He is awful positionally, we had just about the worst defece in the league, never should he have got player of the year. Most games he plays in (especially away) we we leak goals.

Dublin is better at centre half than doherty, and IMO would help us more in defence than attack, we hopefully will sign another striker while earlier in the season we scored goals for fun with the 451.

Here are some facts about league games.

Doherty and Shackall    -   Played 16, Conceded 21

Doherty and Fleming   -      Played 3, Conceded 12

Shackall   and Dublin   -   Played 6, conceded 5

Shackall and Fleming   -   Played 1, conceded 3

This shows that the best partnership is Dublin and shackall (although they have played mostly at home), i think most would agree they looked solid and shackall is a much better player with dublin beside him.

Individually as Centre halfs.

Dublin      Played  6    Conceded   5

Doherty   Played 19   Conceded   33

Shackall   Played 23   Conceded   29

Fleming   Played 4   Conceded   15

Make of that what you like!

 

[Bovril 219]

most of the time i ignore stats, but these ones are very interesting to read thanks..

i think its quite easy for most people to see that the best pairing at the back is dublin and shackell (regardless of whether you go to the matches) and i know it would only be fair to judge shackell/dublin  & shackell/doherty on an equal amount of games played, but where do you play dublin? upfront or downback?

[tryingtofindmyfeet 0]

The main problem I have always had with Doherty is his amazing ability to give away needless fouls. Time after time again he clings a little too tightly to opposing strikers and I am often surprised he doesn''t foul more! Dion is such a better centre back because of his experience. Ideal partnership with Shackell. He commands the defence just like Greeno did, if not better. He''s always shouting to his line and telling them to keep their line and we concede far less that way!

[Hartsons Gut 0]

Even though he lost alot of weight he is still to slow. It would be better if he had a quick mind, but even that is slow.

Yes he is a very poor defender/Footballer, but aint they all appart from Earnie and Hucks

[Hardhouse44 261]

Your stats are interesting but tell only half the story. We have 2 full backs who also have to be accountable and a midfield who for me offer so little protection to the defence that even the great Arsenal back 4 of years gone by would have struggled. Constant pressure will result in any defence in the world leaking goals. The rot is much deeper and the stats are unfair. To make one defender a whipping boy would be wrong.

[ZLF 271]

[quote user="Matt Hudson"]

 he makes loads of errors but then makes good last ditch tackles half the time which wouldnt be necceary if he had done his job in the first place.

[/quote]

 

Matt - that sounds just like John Terry!  The Doc for england!

[ZLF 271]

[quote user="Matt Hudson"]

 he makes loads of errors but then makes good last ditch tackles half the time which wouldnt be necceary if he had done his job in the first place.

[/quote]

 

Matt - that sounds just like John Terry!  The Doc for england!

[nutty nigel 7,509]

It''s entirely possible that the best combination could be Doherty and Dublin! However, Dublin is our best centreforward and goals win games!

 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

It''s entirely possible that the best combination could be Doherty and Dublin! However, Dublin is our best centreforward and goals win games!

 

[/quote]

and with Doherty at the back you certainly need to score a few!!

[Huddy 0]

Dublin is not a long term answer up front, he''s not going to score 15 goals a season but he might be able to do a job at centre half for another 18 months. Shackall should definately play as he is firstly confortable as the left centre half and secondly is a long term player for us. He was excellant alongside dublin and so i believe that in the short term interests of the club dublin should play as a centre back and in the long term interests of the club so that shackall can gain confidence and continue to develop alongside dublin.

The full back thing, in my opinion doesnt matter, yes they are partly to blame but they have played all the time, they have always played with each combination and so it suggests that the whole defence not just the centre halfs is better with DD and Shackall.

I beleive Dublin at the back helps the full backs as well because he is experienced, can see the game and tells them what they should be doing.

[hogesar 9,618]

Doc is generally an awful defender, slow, not sure where he''s meant to be. Shackell is improving considerably, and colin has been generally v.good. Depite others opinions, i feel drury has done quite well when you take into consideration he hasnt got a midfielder up front who helps him defend on the left.

[Hartsons Gut 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

It''s entirely possible that the best combination could be Doherty and Dublin! However, Dublin is our best centreforward and goals win games!

 

[/quote]

How can Dublin be our best forward? have we lost Earnie already?

[Pyro Pete 1,889]

I don''t rate the Doc at all. He may have had a better season last year than in the Premiership, but what defender wouldn''t against Championship players, rather than quality Premiership strikers?Seeing the way Dublin commands the defence, helped Shackell out with his positioning, kept calm under pressure, and helped retain possession, reminds us just how poor Doherty really is. And Dublin is actually just a striker, filling in at the back!The Doc may give his all, but it''s in the same way as Hughes. He has to work hard to make up for his general lack of ability.

[Its grim up north 0]

It has to be Dubs and shacks at the back.  The Doc is no longer an option.  Because of this a centre forward is essential this january.  My worry is that if we lose earnshaw Dublin will be forced to play upfront alongside whoever we get to fill earnshaws place.  We must : Keep earny, buy another center forward and thus allow us to play Dublin at the back.

[a1canary 0]

It''s a fair point Johnny. But i''ll tell you what has shown him up more than anything this season and has resulted in all the stick. It''s having a good quality, commanding centre half playing in his place which has immediately shown us what a solid, orderly back line SHOULD look like. As someone very accurately points out, he makes impressive last ditch tackles but most of the time he''s only doing that to cover his own mistakes. And this only serves to enhance the persistent impression of our very own special brand of panic-stations-all-hands-to-the-pump defending. Of which the Doc is a master!And, what''s more, if anyone can remember, he''s supposed to be able to do a job as a fill in striker so you would have thought if he was playing at CB he could muck in with the odd headed goal from set pieces. But he seems to have completely lost what scroing touch he had as well!! Sorry to the Doc, but he''s got a lot to do to convince most on here that he merits a place in a city starting 11.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

The biggest problem The Doc has is that he had a couple of "mares" when we were live on TV.

 

[Jack Flash 13]

Doc gets a lot of stick, which I do not totally agree with, so I decided to check out the Official stats site for the Football League, which is up to date and records that Doc is 9th in the Card List at Norwich, with just 2 cards - even Dion has 3 Cards in less matches, and Doc is 5th in the Norwich Fouls list, with 27 fouls, behind Etuhu, Saffri, Shack and Hucks. Dion has committed 6 less fouls, but has started 8 fewer games. So looks like the Refs do not share the same opinion of Doc as some of our Fans. Stats do not tell all the tale, but they give an indication.  

[Huddy 0]

Most of Dublins fouls are from when he plays up front, thats one of the reasons i''ve said dublin shouldnt be used as a striker, he fouls too much, is always pushing and jumping on centre halfs.

[USAcanary 0]

[quote user="Jack Flash"]

Doc gets a lot of stick, which I do not totally agree with, so I decided to check out the Official stats site for the Football League, which is up to date and records that Doc is 9th in the Card List at Norwich, with just 2 cards - even Dion has 3 Cards in less matches, and Doc is 5th in the Norwich Fouls list, with 27 fouls, behind Etuhu, Saffri, Shack and Hucks. Dion has committed 6 less fouls, but has started 8 fewer games. So looks like the Refs do not share the same opinion of Doc as some of our Fans. Stats do not tell all the tale, but they give an indication.  

[/quote]

Dont you actually have to tackle somebody to get booked!

Most of Docs fouls are laughable wrestling holds rather than vicious tackles.

 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Stats can be misleading but the stats regarding The Doc consistently refute the claims made on here by posters. Unfortunately many posters only saw the live TV games and that mistake against Burnley and the misconception that he spent the whole 90 mins at Poorman Road fouling Lee. Do people really think that the referee for some totally unknown reason decided to ignore those fouls on Lee and in fact give freekicks in Dohertys favour or could it have been possible that Lee was consistently fouling and backing in to The Doc.

Doherty''s mistake for Palaces 2nd goal was because he took too long to get rid of the ball, it was poor judgement and decision making on his part. However he more than anyone try''s to play the ball out of defence into space for Huckerby or Earnshaw rather than just aimlessly hoofing it up the field.

Dublin is our best centreback but he is also our best centreforward (notice I said centreforward not forward). I believe that a back four of Colin - Doherty - Shackell - Drury is good enough for this league and I think Grant does too.

If you really want to use stats to back up what is our best combination at the back then shots on target against us would be the ones to use.

[Its grim up north 0]

USA- maybe we could sign him up to the wwf (or is it the wwe these days?) and cream some of his earnings into Norwich transfer kitty

[ZLF 271]

Its a curious thing when players mistakes are picked upon,  doc and shacks have looked very good together but did make mistakes against Palace which cost us goals;   yet we should have been comfortably ahead by then had the strikers done their job and taken relatively easy chances - earnie had good chances in the games against palace QPR and Southend which have cost us possibly 5 points - where is the criticism of him?

Doc is a consistent performer who had a howler - every city player has done that this season;  however he has also performed very well at the back this season and those performances are conveniently overlooked.  He is not perfect and his game has many flaws,  but he is far from the main reason why we are in the position we are...

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

Its a curious thing when players mistakes are picked upon,  doc and shacks have looked very good together but did make mistakes against Palace which cost us goals;   yet we should have been comfortably ahead by then had the strikers done their job and taken relatively easy chances - earnie had good chances in the games against palace QPR and Southend which have cost us possibly 5 points - where is the criticism of him?

Doc is a consistent performer who had a howler - every city player has done that this season;  however he has also performed very well at the back this season and those performances are conveniently overlooked.  He is not perfect and his game has many flaws,  but he is far from the main reason why we are in the position we are...

[/quote]

Yeah consistently c**p!!!

Anybody that rates the Doc much better than your average park footballer knows sweet FA about football...

I could do a better job at the back than the Doc...  one of the worst players ever to pull on a yellow & green shirt and almost certainly the worst CB in the last 30 years at the club!

[Temp the Revelator 0]

Oh for God''s sake get a grip of yourslef and your moaning negativity Smudger, will you?  The worst centre back in the last 30 years?  Really?  Forgotten about Victor Segura and Brian McGovern then have you?  And that''s just in the last 10 years.....

[Dicky 0]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

Its a curious thing when players mistakes are picked upon,  doc and shacks have looked very good together but did make mistakes against Palace which cost us goals;   yet we should have been comfortably ahead by then had the strikers done their job and taken relatively easy chances - earnie had good chances in the games against palace QPR and Southend which have cost us possibly 5 points - where is the criticism of him?

Doc is a consistent performer who had a howler - every city player has done that this season;  however he has also performed very well at the back this season and those performances are conveniently overlooked.  He is not perfect and his game has many flaws,  but he is far from the main reason why we are in the position we are...

[/quote]

Yeah consistently c**p!!!

Anybody that rates the Doc much better than your average park footballer knows sweet FA about football...

I could do a better job at the back than the Doc...  one of the worst players ever to pull on a yellow & green shirt and almost certainly the worst CB in the last 30 years at the club!

[/quote]

How can you possibly say that with any authority, having admitted yourself that you have not been to carrow road recently?  As for being the worst CB in the last 30 years? 

[Smudger 0]

Have seen the Doc 5 or 6 times and that is quite enough for anybody with half a brain to know that this guy should not of made a professional footballer.

For god sake my Doc would probably do a better job at the back for us!!!

We gave away Malky for free and brought in this lumbering fool for £1million ffs...  Even the Spurs fans were laughing their socks off at the time they sold him to us...

As for McGovern and Segura I would say that he is equally bad if not worse than both of them...  Just look at his record since he has been with us...  we spent comparitively small amounts on both of them however, while the transfer fee we paid for the lumbering Doc was the highest we have paid in the last 3years (excluding Earnie and Ashton).

 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Dicky"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

Its a curious thing when players mistakes are picked upon,  doc and shacks have looked very good together but did make mistakes against Palace which cost us goals;   yet we should have been comfortably ahead by then had the strikers done their job and taken relatively easy chances - earnie had good chances in the games against palace QPR and Southend which have cost us possibly 5 points - where is the criticism of him?

Doc is a consistent performer who had a howler - every city player has done that this season;  however he has also performed very well at the back this season and those performances are conveniently overlooked.  He is not perfect and his game has many flaws,  but he is far from the main reason why we are in the position we are...

[/quote]

Yeah consistently c**p!!!

Anybody that rates the Doc much better than your average park footballer knows sweet FA about football...

I could do a better job at the back than the Doc...  one of the worst players ever to pull on a yellow & green shirt and almost certainly the worst CB in the last 30 years at the club!

[/quote]

How can you possibly say that with any authority, having admitted yourself that you have not been to carrow road recently?  As for being the worst CB in the last 30 years? 

[/quote]

As I pointed out earlier Dicky, The Doc has made mistakes live on TV. Posters see what they want to see anyway and sometimes I think it''s a waste of time having these discussions on here. I don''t see anybody claiming that Doherty is a great player yet I see claims that he is a donkey. Nobody has even said he is a better defender than DD although I believe there''s little in it and certainly not enough to play Dublin out of position. As ZLF rightly points out, there were more mistakes at the other end on NYD and these are conveniently overlooked.

As for worst CB in the last 30 years??? Howabout NO!!!!!

I don''t understand why certain players are singled out for an undeserved amount of criticism on here and some get away with it. IMO the player to have made the most costly mistakes this season is Gally. Now if you remove the hapless Simon Tracey from the equation he could quite possibly be the worst ''keeper in 30 years at the club!

 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Smudger"]

We gave away Malky for free

[/quote]

I thought we sold him to West Ham for £300,000?

 

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="Smudger"]

I could do a better job at the back than the Doc...  one of the worst players ever to pull on a yellow & green shirt and almost certainly the worst CB in the last 30 years at the club!

[/quote]

Considering you''re forever boasting about how you don''t go to games anymore that statement is about as credible as me coming on here and saying that Angelina Jolie''s terrible in bed!