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First Wizard

Consider this O Faithful Ones!.

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[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

Like soton last year we are doomed for midtable mediocrity this season.  What is crucial is that Grant is able to bring in a player or two to start building his team.

We can get relegated but we can also get promoted - but neither will happen in my opinion. 

[/quote]

What do you mean like Soton last year?

Like Norwich last year more like...  you also forget to be missing one valid point there... while Soton have mad edrastic improvements we have declined yet further still!!!

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[quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"]

perhaps i should have phrased it ''I don''t agree with 95% of what you say but i don''t feel the need to insult you''

but it''s hardly the same as the insults smudger was throwing at people
[/quote]

Say hello to the angels: I don''t wish to get in an arguement with you, but I don''t reconise this Smudger chap who hurls insults at people.

The Smudger who posts on here, I find is an articulate, thoughful poster who raises many ''forceful'' and ''lively'' debates. Like Cluck, BBB, YC, and Zipper and Co, these boards would be poorer without him.

By the way, if I may ask,  where did you get your name from?.

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Wiz - Thanks for bringing this up as it reminded me of the Ippo bias that appears to pervade the BBC Look East coverage of local footy - After the "local round up" they stated in a very positive way that following their win Ippo are now only 8 points from the playoffs and emphasised the fact that we were 8 points of relegation, yet their is only 1 point separating us!! (Sorry to off at a tangent...)

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Burley took over Soton in the middle of last season, pre christmas.  Despite his record at this level had little impact before christmas as he took on the players left him by redknapp,, during jan he astutetly signed players like Rasiak on loan, later permanently, and slowly improved the team finishing the last 7 games very strongly;  not enough to make the play offs but enough to shape the team the way he wanted it.

He continued that during the summer and those new signings have again taken time to gel this season but are now performing strongly and will make the play offs.. 

Like us soton are in the last year of the parachute payments but ar enow a season ahead because of an earlier change in management.   Burleys record is second to none at getting clubs in the play off zone yet it has still taken him a year to build his squad and change the style of play of soton in his image;  grant has a similar challenge in changing demotivated players into performers and changing the squad to his ideals.  It wont happen purely because of 31 days in Jan,  but he can make a good start if he uses the cash he has available wisely. 

I think any fool can see the similarities

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[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

"who still regularly gets her mug on television and throughout the press despite the failing team on the pitch? I think this is the easiest question to answer of all.........."

You cant have it both ways cluck - either she is hiding herself away, being quiet when things are tough as per recent posts or she is a media hog before the press at every opportunity to gain slef promotion as per this post - which is it,  onmi-present or invisible owner?? [;)]

For me the clubs problems are are pitch bound and will take 12 months+ to solve by those responsible for pitch performance - the management team of Grant & Co.  His real time started 3 days ago and real progress is needed in the next 5 months. 

[/quote]

I''ll be delighted if we can get back to "Norwich the football club" rather than "Delia''s plucky little Norwich". I fear we''ve got the label for as long as she is here now though.......but it would be nice if she kept away from the cameras and allowed PG to become the "public face" from now on. So...invisible owner please!.......[:)]

Fair comment re Grant....and despite my worries....I fully accept only time will tell on this one. I hope he does the business for us because the last thing we all want is another year of grief and unrest..... Should he get it wrong however....we''re well and truly up the creek in the long term.

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[quote user="GJD"][quote user="Cluck"]

 


I can''t speak for the masses but i for one am not some idiot who cannot think for himself i opposed chase & i opposed worthington but i don''t oppose our board and i don''t agree with your opinions, i realise that things are pretty bad at the moment but i don''t beleive it''s all down to our board and that whole sale changes are going to make the slightest difference in fact i think it''d just unsettle the club and make things 10 times worse.

This is a curious one for me.

You opposed Chase and Worthington....yet somehow DS and her Disciples are to be forgiven all sins?  The wholesale changes currently needed at the club are nothing to do with the Board....despite a tenure of 10 long years? The removal of the Board now would cause things at CR to become unsettled?

Who then is behind the current mess at the club? Who is ultimately responsible for Worthington''s legacy? Who is responsible for our appalling squad brought in due to "prudent"  business practices? Who is responsible for the fact that any player worth having over 10 years has been sold...and not adequately replaced?

Who is responsible for the season ticket scam...organised to ensure full stands (despite the appalling quality of football) rather than allow "casual" supporters to be a part of things? Who is responsible for the endless ''spin''.....smokescreens and financial cover-ups so endemic in the club today?

And finally.....who still regularly gets her mug on television and throughout the press despite the failing team on the pitch? I think this is the easiest question to answer of all..........

[/quote]

 

A brief response to some of your points.

You opposed Chase and Worthington....yet somehow DS and her Disciples are to be forgiven all sins?  The wholesale changes currently needed at the club are nothing to do with the Board....despite a tenure of 10 long years? The removal of the Board now would cause things at CR to become unsettled?

The removal of the board would no doubt cause CR to become unsettled in the short-term and whether it would be for the better or worse in the long run no one can say for now.

Who then is behind the current mess at the club? Who is ultimately responsible for Worthington''s legacy? Who is responsible for our appalling squad brought in due to "prudent"  business practices? Who is responsible for the fact that any player worth having over 10 years has been sold...and not adequately replaced?

The board is ultimately in control of the clubs situation. However I would not paint our predicament in such gloomy terms. Is our squad appalling or under-performing? Is the board position “prudent” or are they cutting their cloth to fit the situation. On goals per game ratio, then Ernie would seem a very adequate replacement for Ashton.

Who is responsible for the season ticket scam...organised to ensure full stands (despite the appalling quality of football) rather than allow "casual" supporters to be a part of things? Who is responsible for the endless ''spin''.....smokescreens and financial cover-ups so endemic in the club today?

Is it a ‘scam’? I believe NCFC are still have some of the lowest season ticket prices in the Championship and even though I am one of the so called ‘victims’ of the policy living away from Norwich, I would rather see full stands week on week and money going into the club, rather than half-empty stands.

And finally.....who still regularly gets her mug on television and throughout the press despite the failing team on the pitch? I think this is the easiest question to answer of all..........

And your point is?

 

 

[/quote]

Re the Board. I''ve never been a "safety first" person...and so I feel a change at the top now would present a new challenge for us all. Nothing personal against DS....but "prudence" and "ambition" rarely achieve the same ends. I also feel the club is "unsettled" already....but it all depends on whether we''re prepared to look at it or not.

Re players sold and not replaced. I think Earnshaw is the only case where a direct "replacement" was bought in....but it seems likely he will only be here for a short time too.

Re the "scam" on season tickets. I''d rather see the stands occupied by grass roots supporters (as at Portsmouth) rather than an imposed "family" atmosphere. The former means plenty of noise and passion...the latter means polite "gloved" clapping and a loss of the casual fan. (I have a season ticket...so it''s not sour grapes).

As for Delia Smith''s mug being everywhere. I''ve answered this elsewhere. It''s a football club first and last....and not a celebrity plaything. Nothing personal....but one person should never try to be bigger than the club itself. Sadly this is what has been allowed to happen.

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[quote user="Cluck"]

 

Who is responsible for the season ticket scam...organised to ensure full stands (despite the appalling quality of football) rather than allow "casual" supporters to be a part of things? Who is responsible for the endless ''spin''.....smokescreens and financial cover-ups so endemic in the club today?

 

[/quote]

I''m struggling to work out how the above statement should be taken and I''m left wondering what would you rather have, Cluck, gates of 15,000, with less than 5,000 season ticket holders, or home sell out crowds with  the associated ticket revenue to enable maximum investment in the team?

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[quote user="GazzaTCC"][quote user="Cluck"]

 

Who is responsible for the season ticket scam...organised to ensure full stands (despite the appalling quality of football) rather than allow "casual" supporters to be a part of things? Who is responsible for the endless ''spin''.....smokescreens and financial cover-ups so endemic in the club today?

 

[/quote]

I''m struggling to work out how the above statement should be taken and I''m left wondering what would you rather have, Cluck, gates of 15,000, with less than 5,000 season ticket holders, or home sell out crowds with  the associated ticket revenue to enable maximum investment in the team?

[/quote]

If the gates do plummet to 15000 it will be as a direct result of poor football on the pitch....and that could happen season ticket allocation or not. With gates of 24000+ despite what we''re seeing at CR now....why does the club even have to try? What incentive do they have to push the boat out?  They have a captive audience right now and are reliant on the "loyalty" of the fans to keep turning up....and that in my view is dishonest.

If ticket allocations were slashed...we might once again see the casual youngsters back in the ground....bearing in mind that these would become the die hard supporters of the future. We might see the students able to get in again when they are at home.....and a few more pensioners who are currently left out in the cold. With a pension of £75 a week....how else can they hope to get to see a game?

As has been said before...gate money is a relatively small part of total club revenue these days....and we should encourage the supporters of the future. What we have right now is very short sighted....and when going to football is no longer the trendy thing to do....who will be the grass root supporters then?

If I took my own customers so much for granted I would be out of business very quickly. I need to produce quality goods at a sensible price....consistently. Not so with NCFC these days.....and it''s all too easy to see why.........

 

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[quote user="1st Wizard"]

We are, as of today, 9 points of the playoffs, many of you believe, or hope, City can close that gap.

We are also, I must point out, only 8 points off the relegation spots. So ergo: If you accept we can make the playoffs, why won''t you accept that we can get relegated just as easily?.

Sell Earnshaw and I''ll guarentee it!.

I''d love to know your thinking on this worrying thought.

[/quote]


Except, Young Wizard Who Is More Than LikelyOlder Than Me!, teams below us would have to perform, which judging by their form, looks very unlikely, where, many teams above us, especially New Years Day, under performed, so we have a more than likely chance of play-offs.

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The "season ticket scam" is a mystery to me. Surely the club would make much more money if more seats were sold casually?????

I am considering whether to renew my season ticket next season......

It must be all this negative spin from those farsighted posters that is making me question this because normally I can''t wait to renew...

ok.. thought about it..

I am gonna renew!

Wish I wasn''t so gullible and so easily taken in by the spin from those evil people who run our glorious club!

Or do I??????

 

 

 

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[quote user="Cluck"][quote user="GazzaTCC"][quote user="Cluck"]

 

Who is responsible for the season ticket scam...organised to ensure full stands (despite the appalling quality of football) rather than allow "casual" supporters to be a part of things? Who is responsible for the endless ''spin''.....smokescreens and financial cover-ups so endemic in the club today?

 

[/quote]

I''m struggling to work out how the above statement should be taken and I''m left wondering what would you rather have, Cluck, gates of 15,000, with less than 5,000 season ticket holders, or home sell out crowds with  the associated ticket revenue to enable maximum investment in the team?

[/quote]

If the gates do plummet to 15000 it will be as a direct result of poor football on the pitch....and that could happen season ticket allocation or not. With gates of 24000+ despite what we''re seeing at CR now....why does the club even have to try? What incentive do they have to push the boat out?  They have a captive audience right now and are reliant on the "loyalty" of the fans to keep turning up....and that in my view is dishonest.

If ticket allocations were slashed...we might once again see the casual youngsters back in the ground....bearing in mind that these would become the die hard supporters of the future. We might see the students able to get in again when they are at home.....and a few more pensioners who are currently left out in the cold. With a pension of £75 a week....how else can they hope to get to see a game?

As has been said before...gate money is a relatively small part of total club revenue these days....and we should encourage the supporters of the future. What we have right now is very short sighted....and when going to football is no longer the trendy thing to do....who will be the grass root supporters then?

If I took my own customers so much for granted I would be out of business very quickly. I need to produce quality goods at a sensible price....consistently. Not so with NCFC these days.....and it''s all too easy to see why.........

 

[/quote]

Everyone has a choice as to whether they renew their season ticket or not, Cluck. No one is forcing them to do it. We also have one of the largest family sections in the Championship, so the Club is making every effort to cater for future generations.

Your arguement to limit season tickets just doesn''t make sense as that would impact on revenues, unless, of course, you are suggesting that you want to "force" more people to pay the higher casual ticket prices, rather than the season ticket rates?

With the lose of parachute payments next season, ticket prices will be a much greater proportion of our overall revenues and the objective has to be to maximise revenues so we can put maximum investment into the team, but (and it''s a big BUT) strike a balance on pricing so families, concessions etc can still access Carrow Road to see football

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[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote] I am just quoting my own opinions that is all...  if you don''t like them then don''t read them. [/quote]

The only way to avoid them would be to stop using this board, your rants are rapidly becoming eponymous.


[quote] The fans opinions
 will change themselves given time because you can’t hide from the truth forever…  Do you honestly think that the club can continue on this downward spiral for much longer… and if not then what do you see being done about matters?[/quote]

So you''re right, and they''re wrong, and if the clubs'' position gets worse you''re still right, and if the clubs'' position gets better then you were right, but people have listened to you.  You can''t lose in your own head can you ? [:)]

Rick Waghorn has a few interesting things to say about Norwich''s current position on and off the pitch, you can read them here :

http://www.rickwaghorn.co.uk/full_article.asp?i=729


[/quote]

Utter rubbish, he started this thread so you dont have to even open it up as the thread starter is listed in the forum index.

 

 

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