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koimatsuba

Our table Position ... What happened?

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Team

PWDLFAPtsGD
Birmingham City 25164543235220
Preston NE 25128538264412
Derby County 2513573327446
Southampton 25118641314110
Cardiff City 2511863628418
West Brom 25117745284017
Colchester United 25124943284015
Stoke City 25117732204012
Wolves 251168252739-2
Burnley 2510783226376
Sunderland 25114103431373
Sheffield Wednesday 2510783535370
Plymouth Argyle 2581163232350
Coventry City 2510312232833-5
Ipswich Town 2595113635321
Leicester City 25889263032-4
Norwich City 258710323931-7
Crystal Palace 258611283130-3
Luton Town 258512334329-10
QPR 257612333927-6
Barnsley 257513294226-13
Hull City 255614233721-14
Leeds United 256316244521-21
Southend United 253814184317-25
 

oh dear this table looks awfull!!!!

Birmingham were playing poorly just 10 games ago when Grant and the boys beat them. Brucey was on the verge of the sack and Norwich were about level on points around 8-10th.

No we have had it. 21 away from Birmingham and the season has gone AGAIN. Ok only 13 away from Preston, but how many MORE points than Preston do you think we can get?

I know It looks bad, BUT remember Palace. From 3rd bottom to a play-off spot. It can be done, but we need a January transfer Miracle to do it!

New Passion, More chanting, new Players, New tatics, Confidence, sell the deadwood Now ....etc ...etc....

UP THE CITY (at least past Ips**t)

Cheers All

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[quote user="koimatsuba"]

 

I know It looks bad, BUT remember Palace. From 3rd bottom to a play-off spot. It can be done, but we need a January transfer Miracle to do it!

New Passion, More chanting, new Players, New tatics, Confidence, sell the deadwood Now ....etc ...etc....

UP THE CITY (at least past Ips**t)

Cheers All

[/quote]

Ok, the Palace example is really p*ssing me off now. Remember back then the transfer window did NOT apply to this division. Also, they were never as low as 3rd bottom, and also, the main thing being they had quality players already and then bought in a quality new *EXPERIENCED* manager. Those are the main differences here. Without replacing 95% of the first 11, we have not a hope in hell of reaching the top half, let alone the playoffs. A few weeks ago we were all talking about how far off 6th place we were. Now, I''m looking at the table and thinking how far off 10th we are - which is absolutely shocking. It''s all very well saying we can go on a run, we can get a run going. But do we expect the teams above us to sit idly by and let us rack up points so we can leap frog them? It simply doesn''t work like that.

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Birmingham have a decent squad which has got to grips with playing in this division. 

We have too many players in our squad who aren''t good enough to play in this division. 

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The table reads like it did back in the 1960''s.....when the likes of Punton, Howshall and Mannion were the ''icons'' of the day. It was however a ''real'' club in those days....all about football.....and a posh restaurant then was the fish and chip shop on Timber Hill.

Somehow it was all ok then as we knew no better......but the same can''t be said of today. We''re no longer the sleepy little City lost in time that I loved so much.....we are a vibrant modern place moving forward....and we can rightly expect the same attitude from our football club.

Bring back the ''old club'' by all means....but we want to be able to stand....get in the ground for one and a tanner....buy a programme for thru''pence.....find the toilets by scent alone.....have a laugh with the complete strangers around us......and get p****d in the pub for a quid on the way home.

If we can''t have those things back....then you (the club) can''t serve us up with bilge on a weekly basis.....It''s got to work both ways I''m afraid..............

 

 

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[quote user="alex_ncfc"][quote user="koimatsuba"]

 

I know It looks bad, BUT remember Palace. From 3rd bottom to a play-off spot. It can be done, but we need a January transfer Miracle to do it!

New Passion, More chanting, new Players, New tatics, Confidence, sell the deadwood Now ....etc ...etc....

UP THE CITY (at least past Ips**t)

Cheers All

[/quote]

Ok, the Palace example is really p*ssing me off now. Remember back then the transfer window did NOT apply to this division. Also, they were never as low as 3rd bottom, and also, the main thing being they had quality players already and then bought in a quality new *EXPERIENCED* manager. Those are the main differences here. Without replacing 95% of the first 11, we have not a hope in hell of reaching the top half, let alone the playoffs. A few weeks ago we were all talking about how far off 6th place we were. Now, I''m looking at the table and thinking how far off 10th we are - which is absolutely shocking. It''s all very well saying we can go on a run, we can get a run going. But do we expect the teams above us to sit idly by and let us rack up points so we can leap frog them? It simply doesn''t work like that.

[/quote]

 

Calm Down Mate!

I know its bad, I haven''t just sat through the last 3 home games and more to say that it is suddenly going to get better, just that unless we believe in something can happen then we might as well get relegated now or finish in the bottom half. Grant has a LOT of work to do. A lot of players at the club have it too easy and need a kick up the backside, and we need some new blood a bigger squad etc.. As for 95% of the first 11 then that maybe going a bit far. At times this season some of the players in this team have performed excellent. The problem is that they need to do it every week, not just 1 game out of  4. We Can beat any time in the division as our results have shown, BUT we can also struggle because the players ethier can''t be bothered or don''t believe in thereselves enough.

I''m still wearing my shirt with pride. Were not Leeds or Notingham Forest Yet!

Cheers

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Cluck, you bring a tear to my eye. To bring back the whole scene though please remind me what they spent the £60,000 they got for Ron Davies on?

 

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The Palace example is a total red herring. Something like that happens so infrequently that the chance of anyone doing something similar is virtually nil.

Much more the point is that there is nearly always some team that gets dragged into the poo and either ends up going down or having a buttock clenching scare during the last couple of week-ends. We have taken 6 points from the last 8 games. If we carry on with our current form we will end up with a grand total of 47 points by the seasons end. Plenty of teams have gone down with that sort of total.

Unless January brings improvement it will be time to practice that buttock clenching.

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[quote user="Cluck"]

The table reads like it did back in the 1960''s.....when the likes of Punton, Howshall and Mannion were the ''icons'' of the day. It was however a ''real'' club in those days....all about football.....and a posh restaurant then was the fish and chip shop on Timber Hill.

Somehow it was all ok then as we knew no better......but the same can''t be said of today. We''re no longer the sleepy little City lost in time that I loved so much.....we are a vibrant modern place moving forward....and we can rightly expect the same attitude from our football club.

Bring back the ''old club'' by all means....but we want to be able to stand....get in the ground for one and a tanner....buy a programme for thru''pence.....find the toilets by scent alone.....have a laugh with the complete strangers around us......and get p****d in the pub for a quid on the way home.

If we can''t have those things back....then you (the club) can''t serve us up with bilge on a weekly basis.....It''s got to work both ways I''m afraid..............

[/quote]

Cluck, I honestly think there was only a 2 or 3 year period in the mid/late 60s, between selling Ron Davies and bringing in Ron Saunders, when the club was in danger of settling into the mid-table comfort zone as the limit of its ambitions.  And they could have been forgiven for doing so, seeing as it was the highest we''d ever been in our history.

But the people who ran the club in those days were football people.  They understood something very basic that this lot don''t seem to have a clue about.  They knew that football is like trying to climb up the ''down'' escalator . . . standing still is not an option if you want to survive.  It was that survival instinct which got us into the top flight and kept us there for 20 years, and that''s what we''re missing now.  "Ambition" is just a pallid, poncy imitation.

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Cluck, you bring a tear to my eye. To bring back the whole scene though please remind me what they spent the £60,000 they got for Ron Davies on?

 

[/quote]

Wasn''t it £55,000?........and didn''t we get good service out of him as well as a decent profit? As Mystic says....there were grass roots football people in charge of the club in those days.....and we as fans felt very much part of it. We could pretty much trust them to have the good of the club at heart.....and through these same ''football people'' we went up to the First Division and the rest is history as they say........

Now?.....I wouldn''t trust this lot as far as I could throw them. It''s all just endless spin and bulls**t, while our role as supporters is to ''adore''....... Not for me I''m afraid.

 

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Might have been £55,000 but I always remembered it as £60,000. It wasn''t spent on kitchens then, unless it was that green wooden hut behind the Barclay.. so what was it spent on?

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]Might have been £55,000 but I always remembered it as £60,000. It wasn''t spent on kitchens then, unless it was that green wooden hut behind the Barclay.. so what was it spent on?[/quote]

Having quite a little conversation here aren''t we Nutty?.........[:)]

I reckon they spent it on a new line marking machine and invested the rest in premium bonds....How the hell am I supposed to answer a question going back to the 1960''s?.....[:|]..... I was a mere boy then and financial statements weren''t exactly a top subject at Sprowston SM!...........

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[quote user="Cluck"]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]Might have been £55,000 but I always remembered it as £60,000. It wasn''t spent on kitchens then, unless it was that green wooden hut behind the Barclay.. so what was it spent on?[/quote]

Having quite a little conversation here aren''t we Nutty?.........[:)]

I reckon they spent it on a new line marking machine and invested the rest in premium bonds....How the hell am I supposed to answer a question going back to the 1960''s?.....[:|]..... I was a mere boy then and financial statements weren''t exactly a top subject at Sprowston SM!...........

[/quote]

Of course you can''t remember Cluck, neither can I. But what I can remember through my years supporting Norwich is that under Watling, South, Chase and the current regime we have always been a selling club that didn''t invest the money back into the playing staff. I don''t view the present board with rose tinted spectacles but neither do I look back all misty eyed through those rose tinted glasses either. In my memory it started with Ron Davies and went on through the likes of Kevin Reeves, Justin Fashanu, to Chis Sutton, Dean Ashton and quite possibly Robbie Earnshaw.

Those times you fondly remember really weren''t very different!

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Cluck"]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]Might have been £55,000 but I always remembered it as £60,000. It wasn''t spent on kitchens then, unless it was that green wooden hut behind the Barclay.. so what was it spent on?[/quote]

Having quite a little conversation here aren''t we Nutty?.........[:)]

I reckon they spent it on a new line marking machine and invested the rest in premium bonds....How the hell am I supposed to answer a question going back to the 1960''s?.....[:|]..... I was a mere boy then and financial statements weren''t exactly a top subject at Sprowston SM!...........

[/quote]

Of course you can''t remember Cluck, neither can I. But what I can remember through my years supporting Norwich is that under Watling, South, Chase and the current regime we have always been a selling club that didn''t invest the money back into the playing staff. I don''t view the present board with rose tinted spectacles but neither do I look back all misty eyed through those rose tinted glasses either. In my memory it started with Ron Davies and went on through the likes of Kevin Reeves, Justin Fashanu, to Chis Sutton, Dean Ashton and quite possibly Robbie Earnshaw.

Those times you fondly remember really weren''t very different!

 

[/quote]

Fair comment Nutty....but back then we actually had the family silver to sell....now we haven''t. We don''t produce kids to profit from any more...and if Earnshaw goes...there go our goals with it. We will have nothing left in reserve and a very thin squad no-one else wants.

So yes....we have been a selling club (though not as bad as Crewe)....but this was always tempered by incoming bargain buys.....the list of whom would be endless. The scouting system was second to none...but now seems to be almost non-existant. We buy failures from other modest clubs these days.

It''s the over-all state of the club these days that bothers me....and how this Board could suddenly change tack from being timid and small minded....to become pro active and ambitious. Currently we are gutless, over prudent and and big time risk averse....and the those ingredients combined do not spell success for me.

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[quote user="Cluck"]

Fair comment Nutty....but back then we actually had the family silver to sell....now we haven''t. We don''t produce kids to profit from any more...and if Earnshaw goes...there go our goals with it. We will have nothing left in reserve and a very thin squad no-one else wants.

So yes....we have been a selling club (though not as bad as Crewe)....but this was always tempered by incoming bargain buys.....the list of whom would be endless. The scouting system was second to none...but now seems to be almost non-existant. We buy failures from other modest clubs these days.

It''s the over-all state of the club these days that bothers me....and how this Board could suddenly change tack from being timid and small minded....to become pro active and ambitious. Currently we are gutless, over prudent and and big time risk averse....and the those ingredients combined do not spell success for me.

[/quote]

That''s because the rules of football has changed Cluck. We are supposed to look for talent on the gas platforms in the North Sea while clubs like Crewe and Watford  can get the good young players that are available. Remember not many of the "family silver" were local boys. It happens sometimes, Chris Sutton was one, but not often.

The transfer window has made a huge difference on bargain buys too. It''s difficult to get players from other clubs in August when their expectations are high. After the window shuts the next opportunity is January when the selling clubs like to try to organise an auction. Remember how we used to be able to go to clubs like Rochdale in October when there season wasn''t working out and then offer them £40,000 for David Cross.

Times have changed and not for the good of clubs like ours.

 

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[quote user="Cluck"]

Fair comment Nutty....but back then we actually had the family silver to sell....now we haven''t. We don''t produce kids to profit from any more...and if Earnshaw goes...there go our goals with it. We will have nothing left in reserve and a very thin squad no-one else wants.

So yes....we have been a selling club (though not as bad as Crewe)....but this was always tempered by incoming bargain buys.....the list of whom would be endless. The scouting system was second to none...but now seems to be almost non-existant. We buy failures from other modest clubs these days.

It''s the over-all state of the club these days that bothers me....and how this Board could suddenly change tack from being timid and small minded....to become pro active and ambitious. Currently we are gutless, over prudent and and big time risk averse....and the those ingredients combined do not spell success for me.

[/quote]

That''s because the rules of football has changed Cluck. We are supposed to look for talent on the gas platforms in the North Sea while clubs like Crewe and Watford  can get the good young players that are available. Remember not many of the "family silver" were local boys. It happens sometimes, Chris Sutton was one, but not often.

The transfer window has made a huge difference on bargain buys too. It''s difficult to get players from other clubs in August when their expectations are high. After the window shuts the next opportunity is January when the selling clubs like to try to organise an auction. Remember how we used to be able to go to clubs like Rochdale in October when there season wasn''t working out and then offer them £40,000 for David Cross.

Times have changed and not for the good of clubs like ours.

 

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Maybe the only tables that Delia is interested in - are the ones in the Restaurants......and that they have the correct amount of glasses, cutlery and clean tablecloths.....[;)]

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Cluck"]

Fair comment Nutty....but back then we actually had the family silver to sell....now we haven''t. We don''t produce kids to profit from any more...and if Earnshaw goes...there go our goals with it. We will have nothing left in reserve and a very thin squad no-one else wants.

So yes....we have been a selling club (though not as bad as Crewe)....but this was always tempered by incoming bargain buys.....the list of whom would be endless. The scouting system was second to none...but now seems to be almost non-existant. We buy failures from other modest clubs these days.

It''s the over-all state of the club these days that bothers me....and how this Board could suddenly change tack from being timid and small minded....to become pro active and ambitious. Currently we are gutless, over prudent and and big time risk averse....and the those ingredients combined do not spell success for me.

[/quote]

That''s because the rules of football has changed Cluck. We are supposed to look for talent on the gas platforms in the North Sea while clubs like Crewe and Watford  can get the good young players that are available. Remember not many of the "family silver" were local boys. It happens sometimes, Chris Sutton was one, but not often.

The transfer window has made a huge difference on bargain buys too. It''s difficult to get players from other clubs in August when their expectations are high. After the window shuts the next opportunity is January when the selling clubs like to try to organise an auction. Remember how we used to be able to go to clubs like Rochdale in October when there season wasn''t working out and then offer them £40,000 for David Cross.

Times have changed and not for the good of clubs like ours.

 

[/quote]

Not quite fair Nutty. The rule applies to the very young kids....but not those older lads in acadamies and reserve teams up and down the country...and in Scotland and Ireland too.

In my view...we should have experienced active scouts everywhere looking at youngsters...bringing what looks good in for trials and selecting the best for a longer look. As has been said in another thread.....poor quality kids are kept on at City now, when they would be better moved on. The odd few would slip through the net....but not many City rejects have gone on to make anything of themselves...especially in recent years.

Another level is non-league. There are some great little players out there looking for a break.....raw talent that may be worth a look. We aren''t top notch as a club these days....so searching the big clubs isn''t really where we are at now and maybe a rough diamond or two could be unearthed.

Those players like David Cross still exist....and they continue to crop up at smaller clubs every year. The trouble is....when left to prosper and become note worthy....the price goes up big time. They don''t just suddenly become quality players and a scout with a decent eye could find them on the way up. We used to do it....and Crewe have made good use of this idea....so why can''t we?

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