Temp the Revelator 0 Posted April 1, 2004 Ok, I have followed the Svensson debate on these message boards over the past week with interest, and have even contributed a couple of times along the way. For thos who haven''t read my feelings, I think Svensson will be a very good signing for us in the long term, both he and the team need time to adjust.However, to my point.......If playing Hux and McKenzie worked well against Stoke, let''s do the same again at Burnley. However, instead of playing Svensson, stick Roberts in there. No, no, hear me out! With Hux and Leon in there to do all his running for him, Iwan wouldn''t have to do much more than win the ball, hold it up and lay it off.......so rather than playing 2 up with Hux in the hole, play Iwan up, with Leon and Hux joining from just behind. This, and Holt, Francis & McVeigh in midfield, would probably scare the living daylights out of Burnley, who hardly have the best defensive record in the division as it is....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mook 0 Posted April 1, 2004 Unfortunately, as my point states on the other threads - Iwan doesn''t do the holding up thing very well any more. It''s a bit like "if England need goals from midfield, there''s no-one better than Paul Scholes" - RUBBISH!! He can''t do it any more, and neither can Iwan. Bring him on on 70 mins to liven the game up a bit, but not before I don''t think... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Temp the Revelator 0 Posted April 1, 2004 I take your point Mook, but maybe he is struggling because he knows the pace of Huckerby and others around him, and worries about catching up with play......if his ONLY job was to win it and lay it off, he might just do a little better. I don''t know, I mean I personally like Svensson, and haven''t seen him lately, but by all reports he hasn''t been doing so well. I thought he looked a much better prospect than Iwan when he came on against WBA, especially as he WINS free kicks rather than conceding them! Always interested to hear your thoughts! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZLF 271 Posted April 1, 2004 I have to agree with Mook - Iwan has to be reserved for a 15-20 effort only.The trouble with Iwan only winning and laying off balls is that you are assuming that he can actually get to the ball ahead of the opponent (pace issues), does so without holding on to his marker (he conceeds possession by giving away too many free kicks for holding, backing in, wrapping his arms behind him) and can then control the ball without having to take half a dozen touches to control it. Watch his contribution against Stoke - it was woeful and as another poster has mentioned had he had any pace he would have had an easy tap in at the end of the game to make the result safe. It is a building sad memory of a great servant to the club. They shoot horses for less.KIO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ayrton Twigge 0 Posted April 1, 2004 I know where you are coming from, but on occaisions using Roberts does work - who remembers Cardiff at home. I think its a case of Robbo or Svenson - and be prepared to change it around if it doesn''t come off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZLF 271 Posted April 1, 2004 Cardiff worked mainly due to Hux being in such electric form.Where Iwan WAS in awesome form was against Wimbledon but more importantly the blades - he was at his influential combatative best in that game. However 2 good games isnt enough to get him a starting space.OTBC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DumbleDelia is Magic 0 Posted April 1, 2004 I like it Temp. I''m still of the opinion that Roberts can still hold the ball up and knock it on. With the skill and pace of McKenzie and Hucks, this could work well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Temp the Revelator 0 Posted April 1, 2004 Thanks for your support DD, I think this is what Iwan has struggled with - the fact that we now have electric pace has giv en Iwan a problem as one of a strike pair, but used as a pinnacle with electric pace bursting past him would alleviate that problem! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mook 0 Posted April 1, 2004 If Iwan gets a starting place and plays badly, I do hope people will start lots of "Roberts Vs Crouch" threads! Seriously though, he won''t play. Nigel likes to keep a settled formation and allow people to build up their form. Iwan had a good run and he blew it by not doing any of the things that he''s supposed to do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DumbleDelia is Magic 0 Posted April 1, 2004 This is going to sound like we''re just agreeing with each other Temp but- I think your right! With pace around him Iwan knows that he doesn''t have to try and sprint onto balls. He could concentrate on his hold up play and playing it in to feet for McK or Hucks to run on to. I''m sure the thought has crossed Worthy''s mind. With Sven being out of sorts in the past few weeks (I know he scored last week!) and with Iwan''s 300th game coming up, he could make the change. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shortfatb 0 Posted April 1, 2004 The sooner Iwan announces he''s going to retire and the better. Less threads like these disappearing like threadworms up their own fundament. The speed at which the team played, including Sven who is no slouch, was exciting and penetrative, Iwan is a wardrobe who can rough an already beaten defence in the last 15. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DumbleDelia is Magic 0 Posted April 1, 2004 Shortfab,That is one of the most appalling posts I''ve read on this site for a long time. What good is it going to do- Slagging off an importnat member of our squad, a fantastic servant to the club. Yes with players like Huckerby and McKenzie we play at a fast pace. However, if you want a team of only fast players why do we play Mackay or Fleming? Roberts can still do a job for us. Pacy, no. But strong, can hold up the ball and can win headers, yes. You should be ashamed of youself Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blacko 0 Posted April 1, 2004 I think Roberts should play. It seems to me that when he hasn''t played a full game for a while he recharges his batteries and is better for it. He is also better at holding the ball up than Sven, this would be ideal with Huckerby and Leon, but 3 up front would be too much to hope for in a game like Burnley Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BedsCanary 0 Posted April 1, 2004 I can''t believe these Iwan doubters are still about ranting and raving.Iwan has scored six goals this season, and he''s spent most of the season on the bench. If that isn''t good form then I don''t know what is.No Iwan can''t last the full 90 minutes anymore, and no he isn''t going to outpace anyway, but he holds the ball up well and has an understanding with Hucks that Svensson lacks.As a manager, you field your best team - and at the minute Svensson doesn''t fit into that category. His last few performances have been diabolical, had he not scored on Saturday (the only good touch of the ball he had during the entire game) he would of been taken off at half-time. Iwan deserves a shout on Saturday, especially being as it''s his 300th game.As for the "shoot horses for less" comment, you should hang your head. You claim to support Norwich City Football Club? You don''t get much more NCFC than Iwan - his goals kept us out of Division Two for years and when he does retire he will always be remembered as one of the greats.Iwan, Iwan, Iwan! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canary Poirot 1 Posted April 1, 2004 When will everyone stop being so ageist? Just because Iwan is now 35 doesn''t mean he suddenly can''t play 90 mins. He is in fact one of the fittest players in the squad - just ask Dave Carolan, Norwich''s Sport Scientist. Although it is also true that Iwan appears to have lost a yard of pace since the Play off final in Cardiff in 2002, which kind of gives him problems these days, as I believe this is the only part of his game where things let him down considerably - he just can''t get on the end of anything anymore. It would be an interesting prospect never-the-less to try the McKenzie/Roberts pairing with Huckerby cutting in from the left in support. But such experimentation best be left after we''ve won promotion at home against Walsall. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tacklebury 0 Posted April 1, 2004 Why do we need anyone to hold the ball up? Hucks and McKenzie don''t need to play off a big man - if we tried passing it to their feet we''d find they can still do just as good a job! Why don''t we start looking at other ways to play football - just looking for a big man to hold up the ball and lay it off is one-dimensional, very easy to play against and (if you ask me) the time when we look our worst. We play so much better when we try to pass the ball, and if we''re going to compete in the Prem, we need to up the standard of football we''re playing. Now, I think Iwan is a legend and I have a lot of time for him, but I do believe we should move on and stop relying so heavily on a player who will be retired if not at the end of this season then almost certainly the end of next. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shortfatb 0 Posted April 2, 2004 Dear DD, I''m perfectly happy with my views on Iwan, great servant etc., etc. but the way Norwich played against Stoke without him is the way I like to see Norwich play. Whilst I acknowledge that our first choice centre backs are low on pace they are not static and are also highly combatitive without constantly giving free kicks away. Pace up front, whilst admittedly not essential, does as football changes start to become a prerequisite unless you have the touch and vision to compensate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DumbleDelia is Magic 0 Posted April 2, 2004 I take your point Tacklebury. I''d love us to play the free flowing football on the floor that you see the likes of Arsenal play. However, even when we don''t have a front man up front, we''re still looking for him!! I''m not saying it''s right- I''m just saying it''s stuck. We''ve played Roberts and knocked it up to Roberts for so long. It''s a very big part of our game. At times I don''t like it and I would like to change it. However, I don''t think this is going to happen over night. As for shortfab I think we''re going to have to agree to disagree. I still think Roberts can do a job for us, pace or no pace. I don''t think we need three blindingly quick strikers up front. A player who can put his foot on the ball and lay it off will be equally as effective. Also, if you think of the defences of the teams we play against, they like to put two defenders on Huck, one will have to jump with Iwan. This leaves just one defender to look after McKenzie and whichever of our midfielders get forward. Worth a try I think Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mook 0 Posted April 2, 2004 This "Iwan is a legend" nonsense is utter rubbish. Paul MacCartney is a legend, but I bet his most recent album is crap. Just because Iwan has legend status doesn''t mean he''s the greatest - otherwise we''d be playing Gunn, Eadie and Jerry Goss too!!Iwan is immobile. He''s not useless, he can really help us. But people have to stop this ranting about saving us from Div 2. We KNOW what happened, we all watched in horror. But now his days of top form are behind him and we need to use the assets we have. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ca 1 Posted April 2, 2004 Quite agree Mook,he has done a great job for us,is a great ambassador for the club,is a great motivator in the dressing room but as you say his days at the top are behind him.He will move on at the end of the season and we must let him and wish him well.To all those travelling to Burnley,have a great day out and shout for me.Another 3 points in the bag,no doubt in my mind at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZLF 271 Posted April 2, 2004 Thanks god some people have finally woken up to the fact that Iwan is not our best attacking option any more - at one stage it felt like just Mook and myself who were aware of his short comings.I love him as much as the next fan for the contribution he has made to the club - its just not his time any more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magic McVeigh 0 Posted April 3, 2004 Totally agree Zipper, the man is a legend but is now sadly to old and slow to play in a promotion pushing team - at this level. He could probably do a job for some team at a lower level, but really his contract shouldn''t be renewed. Hux, McKenzie, Sven = better striking options compared to Iwan.OTBC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites