Crouch or Svensson?

[jb 0]

Sorry Svensson doesn''t impress me at all.Crouch could control the ball however it was fired at him and bring people into play.His feet are quick and he''s good in the air.Svensson I''m afraid is just a journeyman.He''s certainly nowhere near good enough for the Prem.

[Mook 0]

jb, I notice that you have posted 52 times on this message board.

I would wager 50 of them mentioned Peter Crouch.

I know he was very very good, but just lets see out the season with what we''ve got and think about what we can have once we''ve got where we want to be. It''s not a positive thing to be constantly thinking about one bad player when we have ten very good ones.

And anyway, Svensson is still twice the player Iwan is, and I don''t hear you knocking Iwan - I think you, and a lot of other people, just don''t like the look of Svensson and it doesn''t matter how well he plays cos he still won''t be liked. It''s taken Nigel three and a half years, and people still point out that he says "d''you know what I mean?" all the time!! Just leave people alone and concentrate on the good things we have going for us.

[jb 0]

Very simple really.When Crouch arrived we were 16th.When he left we were top.I simply think it''s a shame he hasn''t been replaced as we''ll need his type of player in the Prem.Oh and I would take Iwan over Svensson any day.

[moules 0]

But he has been gone now for nearly four months and we are still top

[Tacklebury 0]

Jb, I have to admit to being a little bit surprised by this strand. We''d all have loved Crouch to have stayed, and yes I would agree that he''s a better player than Svensson. But this is all reflected in the players'' respective prices - Crouch would cost us somewhere in the region of a couple of million pounds, at a guess. We simply can''t afford that, so Worthy looked elsewhere for a similar player who''s got Premiership experience, and has also played in a promotion-winning team. Svensson, available on the cheap because he was nearing the end of his contract, fitted the bill. Just lay off him, he isn''t an old-fashioned target man like Iwan and has an excellent left foot. I think he''ll link well with Hucks and Macca, if people like you would just give him a chance.

In short, Crouch is the better player, we all know that. But we can''t afford him - we may as well start a new strand saying "Well, I don''t like Mulryne - Beckham would be a much better player for us" - of course he would! But we can''t afford him. Now please just let Svensson get on with playing and scoring the goals that''ll see us promoted.

[ncfc4eva 0]

i have to agree with you 100% mook..for a start jb we dont even have crouch......

[ZLF 274]

JB on that rather narrow point of view I have to say that before Svensson joined we were not top. However immediately following his first game for us we went top and have stayed there ever since.

Its a meaningless stat as Crouch alone did not get us from 16th to 2nd, as much as Sven did not get us to and keep us on top. Both have played a key part in our success this season but neither was the driving force.

And I would argue that having a target man is not the type of player we need in the premier. All the successful teams have skillful pacey players supported by ball playing midfielders rather than relying on a single target man.

Iwans time on Sat highlighted why he is miles behind Sven even when sven is having a poor game.

Give the bloke some support - he is not a world beater but he works well in our side and brings more to the team than a badly fading legend.

OTBC

[Mook 0]

Sorry jb, but that really says it all.

You just don''t like Svensson, otherwise there is no way you would take Iwan over him. Iwan is a waste of space on a football pitch, unless he comes on when the opposition is very tired. And even then struggles to keep up with the pace.

However, Crouch is amazing. But this is why Sven cost us a meagre 50 grand, and Crouch would cost us the equivalent value of our whole team put together!

[Old Boy 0]

Svensson was the worst City player on the pitch on Saturday, but the others all had a good game and he didn''t, so he looked bad. But then I remember watching Iwan in the early days and wondering why we''d paid nearly a million quid for a 30 year old wheelie bin. The "Iwan Iwan" chants are a disgrace, because the only thing a player should get barracked for is not trying, and Svensson tried his best. I still think he has the skill, but he needs to maintain confidence to work through the bad patch. Please don''t make it harder for him, because you''re making it harder for the team.

[Tom M 0]

I have to say I agree with the initial post Svensson is not good enough. Forget Crouch he has gone. With what we have I would pick Iwan over Svennson. I know Iwan is slow and won''t score many goals for us but at least he can hold the ball up and bring others into the game. Svensson can''t even hold the ball up, he just does these stupid flicks to nobody, sorry correction, flicks to the opposition defence. I will support him fully while he is on the pitch, because getting on his case is pointless, the players need our support not criticism, but I simply think he is not good enough - end of.

[Tacklebury 0]

Taking this down to a really simple level - Sven is paid to score or setup goals. On Saturday he scored - a feat which even the mighty Hucks couldn''t manage, despite having an opportunity from the penalty spot. Michael Owen can go 88 minutes without touching the ball, but if he pops up in the 89th and scores the winner, everyone''s happy and he''s done his job. Why can''t this be the same for Sven? He was in the right place at the right time on Saturday - and in the end it turned out to be the difference (plus Greeno''s save) between 3 points and 1.

Christ, the guy scores the winner and he still gets stick. Just give him a chance - as has been said before - Iwan struggled to begin with, and now we love him. Sven could be the same - if only we gave him the opportunity....

[Mook 0]

Tom M, that is just not true.

I don''t mean to be patronising, but Iwan does NOT hold the ball up and bring others into the game. He USED to hold the ball up and bring others into the game. Now all he does is grab the defenders shirt, elbow him, poke him in the eye then fall over forwards in the hope of getting a free kick. And it usually goes against us. And all this only happens if (a big if too) he can get near the ball.

I''m sick of hearing that Iwan "wins headers and holds the ball up" - no he doesn''t!! And when the rest of the team start to read Matty''s flicks, we''ll get more chances from midfield, wings and even fullbacks. Maybe then the negative armchair boys will start to like him. Although probably not.

[Peter 0]

This Svensson issue is as polarised as the Rivers issue, either you think he can do a good job or he can''t.

Well I feel it is far too early to say that Sven is useless, he''s not fit but tries whereas young Mark is also not fit, when is he ever but never tries. I believe Sven will be a useful signing. But if Saturday revealed anything it is that Leon must start.

[no1canary 0]

just to clarify we weren''t top when crouch and huckerby went. ''top the league at portman road''-remember, mckenzie and svensson was upfront. crouch was back at villa. we were second when they left. But the point is still the same that we moved up 14 places while they were here.
but ofcourse u would want crouch ahead of svensson. crouch was like £5''000''000 from portsmouth while svensson was a little £50''000. u get what u pay for!
at the moment svensson is fine but he won''t play once we''re in the prem.

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

Mook,

Iwan DOES hold the ball up! After about 30 seconds at Palace he did the one thing I''d been begging Sven to do all day- Chest the ball down and knock it off. This is his job- That is one of the primary jobs of a target man. Either knock it on or hold it up. Sven does NOT do this. Sorry let me rephrase- Sven is not doing this at the moment. A subtle difference. By this I mean that I''m going to give Sven the benefit of the doubt that he will do this in the future. I''m going to give Sven my support, at the moment because he''s being picked by Nige.

I''m not a "negative armchair boy" as you like to put it. I''m a very active supporter with the club''s best interests at heart. However, it seems to me that the only reason we are playing Svensson at the moment is because Iwan is too old. That seems crazy to me. If this wasn''t the case surely we would have played Mckenzie before now? As soon as Sven starts jumping, winning headers and winning knock ons I will stop what I''m saying. However, I want him to do what he does best- Play football and he''ll win me over.

[Mook 0]

I know Iwan can do that (on occassion), and that''s why I think he''s useful off the bench - but really, Robbo didn''t play any part in the last few games of his most recent run in the team. He may as well not have been there. I know you''re not one of the "I don''t like him, and I''m not going to give him a chance" brigade DD, but you must agree that starting Iwan is pointless because the defender gets the measure of him after 5 mins - just let him make the foul. As for McKenzie, well that''s a different story - I would love to see Hucks and McKenzie get a run, but like you I will stick by whatever NW thinks is correct, after all it''s done us well enough so far!

Also, can I point out that Svensson isn''t really a target man either. He is definitely a different style, still plays with his back to goal, but more of a striking playmaker. Hopefully he will grow into his role at the club.

[0King Juan of SpainddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

Well said Mook - as I KEEP saying on here, we (both players and fans) have to get over the ''where''s Iwan?'' factor. People might be right in that he can hold up the ball but hell, by the time he''s passed and turned to follow up the game''s gone into the next half. He''s too slow, too cumbersome and although he still works hard he is no good for our attacking football anymore. That''s not to say he''s c*ap, but we need to move on.
By the way, I was very impressed with Svensson''s comments about his own form today. It takes a big man to do that and we should support him for it. All of you shouting ''Iwan'' at him on Saturday are an utter disgrace and should give up your tickets to real fans.

[stan the man 0]

I think svennson will be a good player for us when he gets fully fit. And the only way to get fit is to play matches. yes he was the worst player on the pitch on saturday but he done his job and scored the winner. For me Mckenzie tied every thing together on saturday (his speed and tricks) the 4-3-3 was brilliant, something i have been calling for!! give it time. Yes i would love to have crouch in the side but he is very expensive.

[Tacklebury 0]

DD, I dare say that Sven is a different player to Iwan - he prefers the ball to feet. He isn''t going to do the same job as Iwan, and as soon as the rest of the team realise that, the sooner we''ll start seeing Sven doing what he does best.

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

Mook and Tacklebury,

I do take your points. Maybe Sven isn''t the target man we''ve been used to up front. If that''s the case though, I think we need to change the way we play. We''re too used to the knock it long game plan. If Sven''s best play is on the deck, play it to him on the deck. However, if he likes the ball to feet why are we constantly knocking it long and expecting him to play the Iwan role? I''m still very willing to give him a chance but I''d just rather he won more in the air when it''s played to him and that he held it up better.

[Mook 0]

I think for that you have to look at the defence, Greeno included. The full-backs have to stop chipping into the strikers, and Malky and Flem - just give it to Holt or Francis!!

The good thing is that we now have 1, A goal-getter (Leon) 2, A Target man (a fresh Iwan - possibly soon to become Crouch if jb etc are to be believed) 3, Pace and dribbling (Hucks) and now, the fourth peice of the striker jigsaw, Svensson''s neat touch and interplay.

The bad thing is, we have to wait ''til it all gels and they all hit form. Over to you, Nige...

[Saint Canary 0]

I have to say that I find this thread highly bizarre.

Are we still banging on about Croub jb? In case you hadn''t noticed he left over 3 months ago and I could be wrong but I don''t remember him stating a deep passion for wanting to play for City like Hux did. Crouch is not a City player, so why are we debating whether he is better than Svensson? He quite obviously is better, David Beckham is quite obviously a better right midfielder than Ian Henderson but lets not make even more silly comparisons.

While were on comparisons though, why is it Svensson''s fault he doesn''t play as Iwan would? I didn''t realise he has to come in and be exactly like Iwan, hold the ball up, win headers etc. He''s not a younger version of Iwan Roberts, he plays the way he plays, it''s not his fault the back four can''t stop themselves launching the ball at him! I think Iwan has been great for us but at the end of the day he was just a "journeyman" too, Svensson has played more Premier League football than Iwan. You can''t expect Svensson to be someting he''s not.

Give the guy a break, what do you expect for £50k?

[BES 0]

sorry would not take Svensson or Iwan..he scored and im pleased 4 him...but still dont think he''s a quality player....Iwan is a ledgend, but sitting behind the N&P goal on Saturday...he so missed, what should have been such an easy touch..but we do need a another big man...Crouch would be the answer, and I think he will return (when) we return to the premiership then all our problems start again...........Henry, Hasselbaink, Saha, what will we be talking about then...help....

[Intenso 0]

I get the feeling that all the anti Svensson postings are from Iwan supporters who will not accept the big man is past his sell by date. On the rare occasion that Roberts scores a goal we get the comments like ''Come the hour, Come the man'' . On the more regular basis of Roberts missing easy chances we find this is quite acceptable to some supporters who then chant ''Iwan, Iwan''. My point is that double standards are applied and if it had been Roberts who scored on Saturday, however poorly he played otherwise, anybody who had dared to criticise him previously would be taken to task.
Lets face facts that Roberts has scored, including penalties, twenty eight goals in the last three seasons. Chris Sutton scored the same amount for Norwich in one PREMIERSHIP season.

[beelsie 0]

Why on earth do many of the contributors keep banging on about Iwan. He is a spent force he''s had his day! As for the people talking about his ability to hold the ball up.
Ever thought why that skill may have been necessary at Norwich, well its because the mid field were repeatedly hanging back too far in our own half, when they should have been closer to the strike force. Over two seasons our strike force was so lacking penetration that we were unable to cause problems precisely because of this hold the ball up business. Watch Arsenal they have a mobile team that attack and defend as a group and are in positions that make for quick striking from any where around the opposing 18 yard area. Hold the ball up! they''ve never heard of it. We need quick players capable of fast flowing movement. We certainly don''t need one striker jiggling about on the half way line waiting for the mid-field to play catch up while the opposing defence get into positions that are almost impregnable. Svensson said in an interview that as yet he has not felt that he is on top of his game and is struggling to get his feet going. At least he is trying to reach a target of performance. I would like to hear Mulryne say that he is trying to reach a similar objective. As for Mr Crouch, great player, good feet, worth 2 million so be realistic, forget him! Mackenzie will come good and Cooper can be a good quick link up man. OTBC

[ca 1]

Agreed BES I wouldnt take Svensson or Iwan either,lets hope once we are in the premier Worthy buys another big striker,you know who must be waiting in the wings.

[YankeeCanary 0]

A number of people on this thread have stated Svensson cost Norwich 50,000. However, I remember reading on the Charlton site some time ago that this amount could rise to 300,000 if Norwich are promoted within 3 seasons. Is this information incorrect?

[susie b 0]

With reference to ''you-know-who'', cityangel, does anyone out there think that he and Harps should be invited back to FCR to take part in any post-promotion celebrations if/when we make it? I''m like you, cityangel, and have made no secret of my hopes that the lanky one will be back in green and yellow at a (newly infilled!) stadium somewhere near you in the very near future. I also think that we haven''t seen the best of Matty S. yet, and hopefully we will, starting at Burnley on Saturday! (Sorry, Yankee, I don''t know the answer to your question, but I seem to remember hearing something like that being said back in December).

[ca 1]

susie b,
We think alike,yes wouldnt it be great if the loan players who have helped us out this season were invited back to join in the celebrations in may.As for Crouchy I dont think we have seen the last of him yet,am sure he will be top of Nigel''s shopping list.
(yankee,sorry dont know the answer to your question either but I will do some homework and try and find out)

[YankeeCanary 0]

With respect to the Aston Villa game at Villa Park on Saturday it looks like Vassell and Angel are both likely to be unfit to play. If that''s the case, it will be very interesting to see whether Crouch gets to play a good portion of the games at least. If he does not, he will no doubt be drawing some conclusions about his future. I know I would.