Shack Attack 0 Posted November 24, 2006 [quote user="CambridgeCanary"][quote user="Mook"][quote user="cluckaduck"] Under Bondie...Brown and Stringer, plenty of top players readily came to Norfolk and loved the place.[/quote]Clucky, name them. Please!Not because I don''t think they exist, but I just can''t remember any.[/quote]Martin Peters, Ted MacDougall, Phil Boyer, Peter Morris, Mick McGuire, Graham Paddon, Jimmy Neighbour, Viv Busby, David Jones, Kevin Reeves, John Deehan, Chris Woods, Dave Watson, David Williams, Joe Royle, Robert Fleck, Martin O''neill, Mick Channon, Age Hareide, Asa Hartford, Mark Bowen, Ian Butterworth, Bryan Gunn, Mike Phelan, Trevor Putney, Andy linighan, Mike Milligan, Jon Polston, Jon Newsome. David Phillips, Ian Crook, Tomas Helveg, Matthias Jonson etc............Not all were successes but all were top players who came to Norwich and all could have gone to other Premiership (or old First Division) clubs but chose us. There are over 20 internationals listed above and I''m sure I''ve forgotten many others.[/quote]Mmm, I agree with the general sentiment that the boards lack of ambition and that Delia''s little old Norwich routine is in no way helpful to our club but that list of players is a little misleading.I''m only picking a few here, but Dave Watson was plucked from Liverpool reserves and Crook and Bowen came from Spurs reserves, hardly top players at the time although they went on to become all time greats, We will never again attract the likes of Martin Peters, Asa Hartford, Mick Channon etc. to the club, not because of a lack of ambition but because really top players who''ve done it all such as these no longer drop down the divisions in the twilight of their career as they used to. Can you honestly see the likes of Beckham and Rooney playing out the last years of their careers with a team in the lower leagues as used to happen in the 70''s and 80''s. Oh and Helveg and Jonson were both bought when the current board were in charge.The ambition (or lack of) of Delia and the board is the next big issue that needs to be debated and personally I think they missed out on a huge opportunity to take the club forward when we got promoted, but this sort of information is just spinning the truth, the very thing many people are accusing the NCFC board of doing themselves! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mook 0 Posted November 24, 2006 [quote user="CambridgeCanary"]Under Bondie...Brown and Stringer, plenty of top players readily came to Norfolk and loved the place.Martin Peters, Ted MacDougall, Phil Boyer, Peter Morris, Mick McGuire, Graham Paddon, Jimmy Neighbour, Viv Busby, David Jones, Kevin Reeves, John Deehan, Chris Woods, Dave Watson, David Williams, Joe Royle, Robert Fleck, Martin O''neill, Mick Channon, Age Hareide, Asa Hartford, Mark Bowen, Ian Butterworth, Bryan Gunn, Mike Phelan, Trevor Putney, Andy linighan, Mike Milligan, Jon Polston, Jon Newsome. David Phillips, Ian Crook, Tomas Helveg, Matthias Jonson etc............[/quote]Right, I''d forgotten where I posted this, but this is exactly the reply I knew I''d get. So - time to dig out the history book!Chris Woods was a 2nd Division keeper with QPR and was certainly no international when he signed for us!Mike Milligan came to us from Oldham after they were relegated. Again, no great shakes. Plus, he was crap.Mark Bowen - Spurs ReserveIan Crook - Spurs reserveIan Butterworth - Notts Forest reserveBryan Gunn - played 21 times in 6 YEARS for aberdeen before he signed for us.Mike Phelan - we signed him from Burnley, hardly a top player at a big clubAndy Linighan - signed from Oldham, again hardly a top player at a big clubDave Watson - Liverpool reserve, never played for the 1st time before signing for usJoe Royle, Martin Peters and Helveg were all in the twighlight of their careers.Fleck was still a reserve at Rangers, but half a million was a lot of money in those days. Phillips and Newsome were big signings, but hardly top players.According to you, Cluck, Plenty of "TOP" players readily came to Norwich. I''m not disputing the players merits (pretty much all mentioned are my heros!) but I am disputing that they were "big" players at the time.Pretty much all of them were reserves, very old, or very young. Now - what sayeth you Cluck? Or Cambridge? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CambridgeCanary 0 Posted November 24, 2006 Fair does Shack. I was on a bit of a roll and did include players later than the period specified though it still shows that top players have come to Norwich.Watson, Crook and Bowen were all reserves but they were top players in the sense that they were sought after and could have a choice of clubs. They were all top prospects going places who were surplus at the time and hence available. Squad rotation was not used then so Crook was shadowing Hoddle, Watson, Hansen etc. Moving on was the alternative to waiitng for dead man''s shoes. Would anyone regard Bentley, Hendrie, Harewood and all the other fringe players we have been urged on these boards to pursue as not top players? Not great players perhaps but certainly top players.I ignored players we plucked from obscurity who became great such as Steve Bruce.Also, home grown players don''t qualify. Not that we have the quality we had anyway!!There are also plenty that I missed: Martin Chivers, Steve Walford, John McDowell and John Devine for example.You are right though that most great players don''t go down the leagues as they used to and that source has dried up. Helveg was an exception. It is the Watsons and the Bruces that we now need. Fringe players who want a game or gems from lower divisions. These sorts of players have served us well in the past and that is where future progress lies.Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion and I respect that but I think spin is a bit unfair. Take out the players you object to and the evidence of top players is still overwhelming.All it takes to revive those times is ambition. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shack Attack 0 Posted November 24, 2006 [quote user="CambridgeCanary"]Fair does Shack. I was on a bit of a roll and did include players later than the period specified though it still shows that top players have come to Norwich.Watson, Crook and Bowen were all reserves but they were top players in the sense that they were sought after and could have a choice of clubs. They were all top prospects going places who were surplus at the time and hence available. Squad rotation was not used then so Crook was shadowing Hoddle, Watson, Hansen etc. Moving on was the alternative to waiitng for dead man''s shoes. Would anyone regard Bentley, Hendrie, Harewood and all the other fringe players we have been urged on these boards to pursue as not top players? Not great players perhaps but certainly top players.I ignored players we plucked from obscurity who became great such as Steve Bruce.Also, home grown players don''t qualify. Not that we have the quality we had anyway!!There are also plenty that I missed: Martin Chivers, Steve Walford, John McDowell and John Devine for example.You are right though that most great players don''t go down the leagues as they used to and that source has dried up. Helveg was an exception. It is the Watsons and the Bruces that we now need. Fringe players who want a game or gems from lower divisions. These sorts of players have served us well in the past and that is where future progress lies.Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion and I respect that but I think spin is a bit unfair. Take out the players you object to and the evidence of top players is still overwhelming.All it takes to revive those times is ambition.[/quote]I take your point, guess whether a player is "top" or not is subjective really. Personally I think it''s difficult to describe reserve players in this manner whether they''re understudies or victims of squad rotation.I think we''re probably of the same opinion, that the board needs to show more ambition and rid us of this "little old Norwich" tag. I just don''t think your example really proves what it set out to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZLF 274 Posted November 24, 2006 We are hardly comparing apples with pairs here - most of these ''top'' players were attracted when we were a top tier side - were any of that list signed when we were, like we are now, a second tier side?Our strength historically has always been built around taking atlented youngsters from lower teams or giving big teams reserve players a break and first team football then bringing them on. Our record of getting the best out of bigger signings is abysmally poor. Comparing developing youngsters and simply in ability we have always done better with the former - so get in better coaches and revert to what we have succeeded in in the past, b Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Temp the Revelator 0 Posted November 24, 2006 [quote user="CambridgeCanary"]It is the Watsons and the Bruces that we now need. Fringe players who want a game or gems from lower divisions. These sorts of players have served us well in the past and that is where future progress lies.All it takes to revive those times is ambition.[/quote]Not sure I agree with this - yes, those are the kind of player we need to be finding and attracting, but just take a look at Roy Keane''s comments yesterday about how frustrated he had become at young players at big clubs being happier to stay where they are (not even reserve team in some cases) and pick up the wedge than go out on loan toa decent sized club and actually play first team football. It is no longer that simple I''m afraid, as money has completely screwed things up.I think we need to be slightly more creative somehow - not that I have the first idea how! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mook 0 Posted November 24, 2006 [quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]were any of that list signed when we were, like we are now, a second tier side?[/quote]Good old Mickey Phelan!! God how we could do with him now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
