Cheeky Monkey 0 Posted November 21, 2006 London is a village, and every village has is idiot! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YankeeCanary 0 Posted November 21, 2006 MP, it is amusing that, in attempting to solicit a response from MP that the only response drawn is from yourself MP. I am, of course, not entirely clear what is in the other MP''s mind but, from your first challenging thought on this subject MP, I may well have had a similar response to what the other MP did, and....it is this:You said, "In what way is the mentality of a university student analogous to a production worker at Colman''s or a middle aged, middle class Norwich Union worker or how is this comparable to the worldview of a policeman or an airline pilot or a member of a (predominantly) green city council. I could go on but I''m sure you get my point."Well, no, quite honestly I did not get your point. In my life experiences ( so far ) I have found that whether an individual is a "university student, a production worker at Colman''s or a middle class Norwich Union worker" has almost nothing to do with my assessment of the individual as to whether they have stimulating personalities that appeal to me ( or not ) or, indeed, whether they have totally dissimilar personalities or mentality as you put it. Conversely, on many occasions I have found factory workers who love opera and university students who love to sit in their room and mope. More to the point, I have also found people from these varied categories ( that you define ) who, in equal measure, have next to no ambition. So no MP, I did not get your point and possibly MP did not get your point either, which is possibly why MP is not responding to you MP. Perhaps you could come up with another example of why you disagree with Robert Green. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hucka Hucka Huckerby 0 Posted November 21, 2006 Regardless of his comments, I think Green was a fantastic goalkeeper in his time here for us. That double save against Stoke in the promotion season & the quality save at Spurs in the Premiership immediately spring to mind. Ok he might be no Chris Woods but he definitely goes down as one of our best ever IMHO. He is also one of the very few Norwich players to win an England cap while playing for NCFC. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
macdougalls perm 0 Posted November 21, 2006 YC,Interesting post. I was only trying to explain the huge diversity of people that live in Norwich. I certainly did not wish to imply that personality or intelligence are determined by occupational or class group. I have had many experiences similar to those you list. But surely, after making those sensible observations, you are not willing to undermine yourself by trying to tell me that personality and mentality are determined by where you live. Because I don''t buy that.For example, because you live in the New York area, would it be fair for me to characterise you in terms of the crass anti-American stereotypes that are so prevelant in the current situation. Because I don''t think it would. My point is simply that it is totally unsound to generalise - that is why I disagree with Robert Green and the other MP.Perhaps this will get a response from someone other than myself. [;)] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alex_ncfc 643 Posted November 21, 2006 Interestingly enough, I was just reading the players profiles in pinkun at random, and found this on Greeno''s:Best thing about living in Norfolk: It’s nice and peaceful, especially around where I live. I’ve been up here since I was 16 and really love the county.Worst thing about living in Norfolk: Nothing I can think of, although it does take a long time to get to some of our away games. Those coach journeys home can drag at times. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Making Plans 929 Posted November 21, 2006 OK here goes MP. As I said I still regard Norfolk as home, most of relations, including my mother, father and eldest daughter, and many friends, still live there. Therefore, I make regular visits back to Norfolk, but I have to admit that I haven''t been in the "Fine City" for at least 3 years. Not that that makes any difference because Norfolk & Norwich are essentially the same, in my opinion. My reading of the "village mentality" quote by Greeno is that he was referring to the general attitude and aspirations of the "average" resident. When you''ve lived somewhere else for an extended period, and then return to Norfolk, it''s immediately obvious just how slow things are there compared to most other places. There’s a distinct lack of urgency. It also strikes me that it is still quite an old fashioned place, particularly in terms of attitude. However, the thing that really strikes me about all this is that nobody actually seems to care too much and you just get the feeling that everyone is perfectly happy to plod on in the same old way that they always have done since the year dot. To some extent I think all this accurately sums up our football ClubMy daughter, who is 29, and has recently moved back to Norfolk after being away since she was 4, says exactly the same but nevertheless, she loves living there.OK so it is a generalisation but I am comparing this generalisation with generalisations about other places. Having said all that it doesn''t mean that it''s a bad place to live. In fact, when I retire I''ll probably come back for good, if it hasn’t been sunk under the North Sea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
macdougalls perm 0 Posted November 21, 2006 Cheers MP. Sorry to be pedantic but it was supposed to be largely tongue in cheek. I know what you mean about the difference in pace and urgency because I spend most of my time between here and Lahndon. This, funnily enough, is the exactly the reason that I become irritated by comments that imply that metropolitan life is superior to that of the provinces, purely on the basis of its speed and aggression (sorry, competitiveness[;)]) - which, sorry if I''m wrong, is what I read into Green''s comments about the ''village mentality'' of Norwich. Anyway, OTBC! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GJD 0 Posted November 21, 2006 Well first on the point of RG. A good keeper for us over many years and good luck to the man. A great shot stopper, but I would put Woods and Gunn ahead of him with keepers I have seen play for Norwich. On the point about Norwich having a small town mentality well not so sure about that? Historically speaking Norwich was England’s second city through much of the middle ages and politically important in that time as well. Certainly arguably been the most important city in the region financially and historically throughout it’s time, although Cambridge with the University takes the intellectual clout. Having lived in London, Edinburgh and Crewe during my 37 years, I would not say that life is that much slower or laid back in Norwich compared to the other places when at the work place. Nor more insular in many aspects in my personal experience, since London in particular with its poor transport system is a disgrace and much more insular in many aspects. I always look forward to coming back to the fair city and walking around the centre on an empty Sunday morning admiring the buildings. Seeing the scenery always brings great smile to my face and pride to my soul that I am Norfolk man at heart and I regret leaving that fair city and county on the journey home. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olano 100 Posted November 21, 2006 I realy like Green. He was more loyale then Asthon and Leon. He playd for Norwich 10 years. When we was relegated he didnt complayn ore play horible. But when Norwich sold Asthon. He understud that the bord didnt have the ambition for promotion. So completly understand whay he wonted to go to premieship.Im frome Norway, and have to say that I like Norwich much bether then London. London is to crovded and cand of durty. (soory if Im horing any one) But I dont think Green was talking down on Norwich. Think he trid to tell that he porsonaly needed som canges in his life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Monkey 52 Posted November 22, 2006 Green is a fantastic goalkeeper with a few flaws. Unfortunately some people see ambition as one of them, whereas I see it as quite natural for someone of his ability. I know many of us on here would state that if we had the chance we''d play for Norwich City until the day we die, regardless of what division we''re in. That, however, would be a lie. If you were a Norwich fan and player, and were wallowing in the Championship with little prospect of escape due to an incompetent manager at the helm (I''m talking Worthy here, putting myself in Green''s shoes this summer) and West Ham, who have just had a fantastic season in the Prem and were robbed of the FA Cup Final, come calling, what would you do... I know what I''d do...On the subject of Norwich, though, I find Macdougal''s Perm''s comments baffling and contradictory. In many ways his hounding of Making Plans proves the latter''s point about the "village mentality". "Woss ''at yoo sayin'', bor? Yoo sayin'' oim sum kinda bumpkin? Ma, get me pitchfork, we''re drivin'' dis stranger outta town... sorry, city."When compared to other cities, Norwich is tiny. It has a population of roughly 200 000 and (according to Wikipedia) it''s ethnicity is 98.6% white. City status is granted these days on size, but historically it was the presence of a cathedral, marking some political importance (a similar example, in many ways, is York, which has a similar population and size, but also has a Cathedral).For me, the city status is irrelevent to the debate, so let''s look at the "village mentality" comments. Because Norwich is so small, there is a tendency to "know everyone" on a scale not possible in somewhere large, such as Manchester. You can walk down the street in one lunchtime and see an ex-girlfriend, some old school mates, a bloke from a department you used to work in (most likely at Norwich Union), and that guy who always looks like he needs to brush his teeth. You talk to someone you''ve just met and you find that they know someone else you''ve been best friends with for years.There is also an argument that the people of Norwich are somewhat "backwards". This is unfair, though I do admit to having made jokes since I moved about Norwich having just discovered "this talking pictures box". Some people are undoubtedly backwards, but then they are in many other cities. The problem for Norwich is the massive rural area it has surrounding it, and the general public perception of farmers (which, unfortunately, is sometimes true). It is also nigh-on impossible to get in or out of Norfolk without a struggle, with no Motorway network and very few direct trains out of Norfolk. This leads visitors to the opinion that the people of Norwich simply don''t want outsiders there.Someone earlier mentioned about Norwich people being viewed as "slow". Again, this is incorrect, but have you tried walking through the city on a busy day? For some reason, and this is something I''ve only really experienced in Norwich (and York), people are completely incapable of walking in such a way that doesn''t cause a hinderance to people around them - it is almost as if they are completely unaware of the existence of anyone other than themselves, which I think is unfortunately true. They stop suddenly to look through a window at something shiny and cause everyone walking behind them to run into each other.And without wishing to play the "race" card, I think the "ethnicity" of the city being 98.6% white tells its own story. Many people I know from back home did not encounter a "black" person until well into their teens, other than on telly. They know Asian people simply as the people who run the kebab shops, and many of the Chinese restaurants and take aways have white English people working in them, particularly on the phones. Hell, look at MP''s comments about "diversity" in Norwich - he listed various types of jobs, not various types of race. In my time at Norwich Union (yes, I worked for them AND am a student - where does that put me in MP''s plans?) the biggest complaints about "I can''t understand them Indians" after off-shoring did not come from the customers, but from the staff there in Norwich.All of the above, however, can also be applied to many other cities, but it is generally the smaller ones that suffer this. I''ve used York as an example a number of times, but it is very true. I was talking to a girl last night Lincolnshire and when discussing home, many of the bad points we discussed about our respective homes were similar. Only she was from a small village, I was from a city...This is all, of course, a generalisation, which is what Greeno was doing when he said this. Misguided comments, possibly. Inaccurate? Unfortunately not... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Splendid Rush 2 Posted November 22, 2006 Personally I don''t think that Norwich has a small town mentality but when I think of how it must seem for the players it''s different. There are no ''celebs'' (Or VIPs, the VIP lounges in the clubs here make me laugh!) here. Therefore the Norwich players are the only ''famous'' people in the city. Given this, people''s attitudes to them are very different to what they would be in a city such as London I''d say. My guess is that Green can have more annonymity in London, he clearly didn''t particularly enjoy being a ''celeb'' hence his often aloof and reserved manner (Even thought when I''ve spoken to him in other situaltions he is awlays freindly and talkative). I''ve seen him in clubs stone cold sober with drunken blokes hanging off his shoulder and he looked so uncomfortable. Perhaps this is what he means by small town mentality...I just think it''s a shame that people can turn so fast on others for things that they read in the papers. I have a freind who is in the media eye and the amount of times he has been misquoted or even just down right lied about, makes me now question EVERYTHING in the print media. It''s a sad fact, but what can you believe? Admittedly I''d expect the Telegraph to do a slightly better job than the red tops, but still... The Telegraph?? AIY Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicken 0 Posted November 22, 2006 [quote user="Troy Tempest"]For some one as intelligent as Green some of his comments were a little odd. For your information, Robert, Carrow Road and Upton Park are similar distances from the sea and London is a port.[/quote]Living in London I can understand his point of view. It does seem to begin with after moving away from Norwich and Norfolk that the county of my affection is very self ingrossed especially with the idea that it gets a hard time of things and is reletively forgotten.By doing so you fall into the South East trap, because the reletive truth down he is that no one cares about the rest of the country only this tiny little corner of it where it is supposedly so great that its worth ten times as much. A two bedroom terrace house is worth £1million for example! Unbelievable.The truth of the matter is this - Norfolk is a great great place, it always will be so long as people don''t keeping making a fuss out of how forgotten it is. Don''t encurage the idiots down here to turn it into another faceless, lakeside shopping centre! Try to keep its charm and allow those that find it through their own means to enjoy the quality that exists there.People like our dear friend Robert learn that - but not always quickly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bobert 0 Posted November 22, 2006 Well truth is that I travel between Perth and Norwich and if you want to make a bob you have to get out of the city. Sleepy fashion they are both much of a muchness although, apart from the football, I guess I have a better time in Perth. A castle and two cathederals don''t really compare with a concert hall, the North Sea does not really compare with the Indian Ocean, University of WA and Curtain Uni compare well with UEA, Kings Park with Mousehold Heath, Northbridge with the Riverside, the long blue skies and the sunshine about equal as are Broadlands and Sunseekers. Miss the Norfolk hedge rows when in Perth, the berries (holly, rose and black), miss the falling leaves, the birds, the auctions in Acle, Aylsham and Diss. Cafe society is better in Perth, the fish and chips in Fremantle, the cycle tracks by the river, Sunday breakfast beats Sunday lunch.Poor Robert Green has not seen much especially if he is as inteligent as the posts would make us believe. Being a slave to a football club is little better than being a Roman gladiator when you come to think of it. I got on my bike when I was 17 yrs old and cycled to Paris and have been travelling ever since. I have a hard time making friends in Norwich but then you get out of life equal to what you put into it. Having supported the Club for over 30 years I can say that without doubt the happiest day of my life was when we went to Cardiff even if we did loose.I bless Delia, her husband, Roger and Co for that and I bless all of you on this Message Board for making me feel as tho I am one of a great happy family spanning the world. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cluck 0 Posted November 22, 2006 [quote user="Bobert"]Well truth is that I travel between Perth and Norwich and if you want to make a bob you have to get out of the city. Sleepy fashion they are both much of a muchness although, apart from the football, I guess I have a better time in Perth. A castle and two cathederals don''t really compare with a concert hall, the North Sea does not really compare with the Indian Ocean, University of WA and Curtain Uni compare well with UEA, Kings Park with Mousehold Heath, Northbridge with the Riverside, the long blue skies and the sunshine about equal as are Broadlands and Sunseekers. Miss the Norfolk hedge rows when in Perth, the berries (holly, rose and black), miss the falling leaves, the birds, the auctions in Acle, Aylsham and Diss. Cafe society is better in Perth, the fish and chips in Fremantle, the cycle tracks by the river, Sunday breakfast beats Sunday lunch.Poor Robert Green has not seen much especially if he is as inteligent as the posts would make us believe. Being a slave to a football club is little better than being a Roman gladiator when you come to think of it. I got on my bike when I was 17 yrs old and cycled to Paris and have been travelling ever since. I have a hard time making friends in Norwich but then you get out of life equal to what you put into it. Having supported the Club for over 30 years I can say that without doubt the happiest day of my life was when we went to Cardiff even if we did loose.I bless Delia, her husband, Roger and Co for that and I bless all of you on this Message Board for making me feel as tho I am one of a great happy family spanning the world.[/quote]I lived in Perth Bobert. It''s stupidly hot....full of flies....the spiders bite....the Sheilas swear like navvies....lawns are brown.....the sea is full of stingy bitey things....fashion, there is none....Surfers don''t really surf.....bank managers wear shorts.....mars bars melt......Ahhhhhhh. Sweet memories.......[:)] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
macdougalls perm 0 Posted November 23, 2006 Evil Monkey, just a few points in correction of your misrepresentation of my post;1. I have not argued at any point about the size, population, ethnicity or religious make up of Norwich.2. You ask where you fit into my ''plans''. For the thousandth time the answer is that you don''t because my ACTUAL point is that people simply DO NOT FIT INTO THESE NEAT CATEGORIES and neither do their mentalities. I am sorry for the annoying capital letters but this is my final attempt to say this without people interpreting it to mean exactly the opposite. I, also, have been a student, I have worked for NU and have done several stints of work on the factory floor among other types of ''career''.3. With regards to your stereotyping of me as some kind of irate yokel who has never left Norfolk. Whilst I don''t really feel as though I should have to justify myself to you, I evidently do so I would answer that I have spent long periods living in Cardiff, Walthamstow, Birmingham and, yes, shock horror, Norwich! I also spent 3 and a 1/2 years living in various parts of the US.4. On a related point, out of these places, North East London was by far the most parochial and insular place that I have ever experienced. If it happened outside the M25, then it wasn''t worth talking or even thinking about - simple as that. 5. My ''hounding'' of Making Plans was somewhat tongue in cheek and was simply because I thought he was talking in stereotypes, and I still do. Although you provide a less than gracious interpretation of my apology, it was simply made in the recognition that this is a forum for discussion of a football team that we all support rather than a debate regarding the politics of stereotyping.6. You make a sensible point about Norwich being more of a ''face to face'' community but, in your generalising binary logic, is the corrollary of this that cities such as Manchester/London etc are defined by their individualism, criminality and lack of community spirit? No, of course not - because stereotyping is inaccurate and is a problem. If I were you, I would also give a bit more thought to your definition of Norwich''s rural setting as ''it''s problem''. Perhaps you will be happier when the entire country is covered in concrete so that you ''metropolitan types'' can whizz between your cities untroubled by the smell of cow sh*t or bothered by us rustic simple folk. (by the way, this is tongue in cheek in case you decide to interpret this as further evidence of my ''inbredness'')Thankyou. By the way, I am not ''hounding'' you, I have not reached for the shotgun to get you off my land, I just thought that I would try to correct what I thought was an extremely unfair misrepresentation of my comments. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Monkey 52 Posted November 23, 2006 Most of my points were not directed towards yourself, MP, and I''m sorry you''ve taken it that way. They''re just my thoughts in general towards Robert Green''s comments (because this was the original discussion). The bits asking where I fit into your plan were, of course, tongue-in-cheek... [;)]Just to clear up the last point, a quick read of my post again would show you that I was referring to the rural setting as part of the reason why some people have a "yokel" stereotype of the Norfolk people. This is "it''s problem". I wasn''t actually saying "I don''t like rural areas". I love them a whole lot more than cities and there''s nothing worse than spending a day walking around the wilderness of the Lakes or the Peaks and seeing that first factory tower marking a return to the Industrialised city... Makes me shudder every time... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicken 0 Posted November 23, 2006 [quote user="Worthy Nigelton"]That''s just people living in the city centre excluding places like Costessey, Brundall, Sprowston, etc etc... If we''re going on purely the city, then London''s population is minimal (the city of London is only 1 square mile but the boroughs are huge!).How can Norwich be considered the size of a town? How many towns does Greeno know that have a massive university, two shopping malls and its own international airport?! It''s ridiculous. Okay, so Norwich is nowhere near the scale of London, but London isn''t as big as Tokyo or New York. Does that make it small?[/quote]London is bigger than NY. I have heard recently that NY has a population of 8million, London is 10million. If it was Manhatten Vs City of London then you have a winner! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bobert 0 Posted November 23, 2006 And the sharks, don''t forget the sharks! They ate a Cottesloe Crab one morning and I used to go in the water at the same time and swim in the opposite direction. Not any more! The dung beetles have taken care of the flies, cheap water the brown lawns, bank managers only wear shorts on Fridays these days but the Sheilas!!! Oh dear God... gold shoes to work...they mostly look as if they are going to a party but at least they do wash their hair most days.I do wish Robert Green the very best but he has chosen a very restricting profession. Fancy having to run round a football pitch every day of your life and having to do press-ups and fall about in the mud. Kicking a football all day whould drive me to distraction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Worthy Nigelton<br><br><br><br><br>Evening News Sports Page Headline 8th August 2007:<br><br>Henderson joins Dereham Town. 0 Posted November 23, 2006 [quote user="chicken"][quote user="Worthy Nigelton"] That''s just people living in the city centre excluding places like Costessey, Brundall, Sprowston, etc etc... If we''re going on purely the city, then London''s population is minimal (the city of London is only 1 square mile but the boroughs are huge!).How can Norwich be considered the size of a town? How many towns does Greeno know that have a massive university, two shopping malls and its own international airport?! It''s ridiculous. Okay, so Norwich is nowhere near the scale of London, but London isn''t as big as Tokyo or New York. Does that make it small?[/quote]London is bigger than NY. I have heard recently that NY has a population of 8million, London is 10million. If it was Manhatten Vs City of London then you have a winner![/quote] http://www.pubquizhelp.34sp.com/geo/popcity.htmlLondon only just sneeks into the top 20.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hucka Hucka Huckerby 0 Posted November 23, 2006 Posted By: Bobert in Norwich City - Have Your Say Subject: Re: Robert Greens Big Head I do wish Robert Green the very best but he has chosen a very restricting profession. Fancy having to run round a football pitch every day of your life and having to do press-ups and fall about in the mud. Kicking a football all day whould drive me to distraction.What a nightmare, hey! Kicking a football about for living... I''d hate it too [:D] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
macdougalls perm 0 Posted November 23, 2006 Evil Monkey,Cool. I am sorry to have replied in such a manner but I was getting pretty sick of being ''tarred and feathered'' as some kind of cross between an inbred vigilante/cultural snob (curious combo[:D]) just for trying to point out that you can find slow, insular people in cities just as you can find well-travelled cosmopolitan people in rural areas.Anyway, I apologise again for my tone but I hope that the above explains why I took parts of your message that way - even if it wasn''t a justified interpretation. Now we can just get back to worrying about how sh*t our team was on Sunday [;)]. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mello Yello 2,265 Posted November 23, 2006 I heard that they have a better class of ''lapdancers'' in the Capital......Big ''ead Bob''s favourite......allegedly.They don''t wear wooly hats or welly boots on the poles down there......apparently. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unlucky Fried Kitten 0 Posted November 23, 2006 He does have an unfeasibly large head, doesn''t he? It''s like some hairy Halloween pumpkin. Robert Green''s Big Head - could be a good quirky sort of name for a Rock band. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicken 0 Posted November 23, 2006 [quote user="Worthy Nigelton"][quote user="chicken"][quote user="Worthy Nigelton"] That''s just people living in the city centre excluding places like Costessey, Brundall, Sprowston, etc etc... If we''re going on purely the city, then London''s population is minimal (the city of London is only 1 square mile but the boroughs are huge!).How can Norwich be considered the size of a town? How many towns does Greeno know that have a massive university, two shopping malls and its own international airport?! It''s ridiculous. Okay, so Norwich is nowhere near the scale of London, but London isn''t as big as Tokyo or New York. Does that make it small?[/quote]London is bigger than NY. I have heard recently that NY has a population of 8million, London is 10million. If it was Manhatten Vs City of London then you have a winner![/quote]London only just sneeks into the top 20....http://www.pubquizhelp.34sp.com/geo/popcity.html[/quote]I am sorry not a mistake on my part but by defenition I quote:"London is the most populous city in the European Union[2] with a population of 7.5 million and a metropolitan area population of between 12 and 14 million." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LondonIf you look at the defenition for NY City its bigger in its metropolitan area also at around 18million. So yeah much bigger, although when you are there, well at least on manhatten it doesnt feel that big! So you are correct although interestingly so. But like I said people in the Southeast tend not to worry about the rest of the country beyond Watford! The amount of people I have had to tell where Norwich actually is is rediculous. London is the focus of all their attention and its an attitude that others can subconciously adopt and don''t forget is is a Southy anyway - not from Norfolk I am afraid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cluck 0 Posted November 23, 2006 Norwich is a well kept secret.....and I''m fiercely proud of it....just as I am of the people in it. It seems that to revere your city and celebrate your unique local culture is to be deemed either slow or inward looking. Well...I''ve seen plenty of ''other places''.....and searched far and wide for greener grass.....but there is nowhere in the world as special as Norfolk...and no people more astude and personable than Norfolk folk.So in a few words I say....f*** off if you don''t like it.....but if you''re an incomer and love it too.....you''re very welcome to stay. That''s what makes us special.....and that''s what other people like about us too.BE PROUD! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canary of Manchester (barlodona) 0 Posted November 23, 2006 i think he was one of the best keeps norwich ahve had and he deserved to play for a bett er team Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HappyhammerAndy 0 Posted November 29, 2006 I think you''re wrong. With Carroll being pissed out of his head, he is now our No. 1 choice. I''ve seen him play for the ''ammers and he is ok. He''ll do for a while. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites