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Pete Raven

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Q: When is a Sell Out not really a Sell Out?...

 

A: ......                        [*-)]

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Up to the usual level of bo**ocks we have come to expect from him.

I would have thought he might have learnt his lesson by now......but apparently not. I''m sure he still believes that you can ''fool all of the people all of the time''.....and that now Worthington has been lynched it''s ''business as usual''....... 

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I like the bit about how "we''ve created a ''buyback'' scheme''. That''s right, the scheme wher you make me feel like a criminal for trying to sell my season ticket to a mate for one game for £10 rather than accepting your pathetic offer of £5 off a season ticket that I might not even want next year!

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I notice ND slips in that bit about how "transparent" they are.  If they are transparent, why do they need to keep saying it?

I''m a shareholder, and I''m still trying to get them to show the club''s income from the catering side in the Annual Report, as well as the turnover.  It''s been eight weeks now.  I received a noncommittal "we have no plans" reply in early October, but no response at all to two (polite) follow-up requests.  The Annual Report goes to press any time now . . .

That''s not my idea of transparency. 

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I''d like to know the split of where we lose the seats, Doomcaster says its the dividing bit between the home and away fans, the press seats and seats behind posts.We were 1500 short for the Sunderland game, just seems a lot for these 3 areas doesn''t it?

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I had a restricted view in infill between River and City last time we played Sunderland, not too bad but should be some price benefit.  Do they not sell these anymore, mine was right behind pillar could it be any more restricted than that.  If you''ve nothing worthwhile to say ND just keep quiet.

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 early October, but no response at all to two (polite) follow-up requests.  The Annual Report goes to press any time now . . .

That''s not my idea of transparency. 

Mystic

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe its all a question of timing Mystic ?   the annual report is due , why not wait until you`ve read it  before  the safety valve blows ?  [;)]

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[quote user="sheded"] early October, but no response at all to two (polite) follow-up requests.  The Annual Report goes to press any time now . . .

That''s not my idea of transparency. 

Mystic

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Maybe its all a question of timing Mystic ?   the annual report is due , why not wait until you`ve read it  before  the safety valve blows ?  [;)]

[/quote]

Sheded, I am basing my supposition on what they told me on 6th October, ie. that they have "no plans".  If there''s been a change I think I''m due the courtesy of a brief reply to that effect.

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As transparent as a reinforced concrete lead-lined sub-surface nuclear fall-out bunker......

Honestly, I truly accept and don''t expect, the club to allow all interested "does trunky want a bun!?" nosey parkers - unlimited access to all the club''s finances and wheelie dealie thingy stuff an'' that.....But, I do sometimes wish Mr MBA and Co, would stop treating the fans as some illiterate, senile, empty headed fruit trough wipin'' gaggle of gullible gonads - who know ''nought of nothingness'' but only live for the weekend - and for footy an'' sex an'' drugs an'' rag ''n'' bone......(and trainspotting, brass rubbing and watchin'' daytime TV).

Sum peeple hoo foller futty arr axhully kwite hintellijent an avv theer owen bizness an that - an hyem tha harkitekt blerk thas reesponsibble fur thar hootell at carra rud! Hiznt hit grate! Wun ov me besterest wurks - dunt yer fink sew?

Hi carnt wayt ter staht thet sitty starnd topple teeher!

 Reet, wez me berst crayhon? I huz gott sum seeryuzz deezinin'' ter doo! [:P]

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[quote user="Shack Attack"]I like the bit about how "we''ve created a ''buyback'' scheme''. That''s right, the scheme wher you make me feel like a criminal for trying to sell my season ticket to a mate for one game for £10 rather than accepting your pathetic offer of £5 off a season ticket that I might not even want next year![/quote]

They should change it to something like 50% of price IF your ticket is sold... I can understand why they don''t want people selling their own tickets on... It''s something very hard to police... I seem to remember issues at a match where a few season ticket holders decided to sell their tickets to away fans, and they went on to make trouble during the game (I think it was against West Ham). With so many sell-outs, there''s also the potential issue of people serially touting season ticket seats at inflated prices.

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[quote user="mystic megson"]

I notice ND slips in that bit about how "transparent" they are.  If they are transparent, why do they need to keep saying it?

I''m a shareholder, and I''m still trying to get them to show the club''s income from the catering side in the Annual Report, as well as the turnover.  It''s been eight weeks now.  I received a noncommittal "we have no plans" reply in early October, but no response at all to two (polite) follow-up requests.  The Annual Report goes to press any time now . . .

That''s not my idea of transparency. 

[/quote]

They''ve had it too easy for too long and the Board have got used to hiding the truth about our ''Great saviour''s''  personal Empire Building game plan behind a facade. For me it''s a case of too much attention to periferals and nowhere near enough regarding what this club should really be about.........the team on the pitch. If anyone had any doubts before.....the current state of all things football should ring some serious alarm bells.

Well done Mystic.......it will be very interesting to see what they say.

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When I started this it didn''t occur to me that there might be anything to hide.  It was born out of a feeling that telling us the turnover''s increased and expecting us to applaud like performing seals is treating us like village idiots.  What we want to know is how much the club is getting out of it, because that''s how they sold the catering enterprise to us in the first place.

They''re turning it into a big issue by declining to give a simple yes or no answer.  It''s got to the stage where I can think of three possibilities: a) they think we have no right to ask, b) there is something they are trying to cover up, or c) that evasiveness for its own sake has become such a habit that they just can''t stop doing it . . . transparency my arse.

I''m not going to waste any more postage on letters they have no intention of replying to.  If I don''t hear anything by the end of next week, the next stage will be to find out a bit more about shareholders'' legal rights to information.

Mello . . . hilarious lol.  When you''re around I''ve learned to keep a kitchen roll handy to wipe coffee off screen . . .

 

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Mystic

I was at a Club event last night and Delia said (paraphrased)

They do 105,000 "covers" pa - 28,000 on match days

The turnover from Canary Catering has grown to approx £4m pa. The profit on that is approx £750,000 pa

btw, Eventguard makes the Club about £100,00pa out of a turnover of approx £4-500k

Neil Doncaster worked as a security guard whilst a student (fact fans)

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[quote user="jetstream"]Mystic I was at a Club event last night and Delia said (paraphrased) They do 105,000 "covers" pa - 28,000 on match days The turnover from Canary Catering has grown to approx £4m pa. The profit on that is approx £750,000 pa btw, Eventguard makes the Club about £100,00pa out of a turnover of approx £4-500k Neil Doncaster worked as a security guard whilst a student (fact fans)[/quote]

 

Many thanks Jetstream.  I was aware of the bit about the turnover. 

Point of clarification: when you say that the profit is "approx £750,000 pa btw", do you mean that they said so last night, or did you get it from somewhere else, and if so, where?  Would save me a lot of hassle if I can track it down.

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You ain''t got any further legal rights to information. What is in the published accounts is your lot. All you can do is refuse to adopt the Accounts at the AGM. That resolution goes with the majority of shares and Delia and Co have that majority. Why you think there is no further share issues?

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This is unfair criticism towards Doncaster.  Every sports team in the world does this, puts seats in certain areas on hold or maybe complementry tickets.  Also seats need to reserved for the game if someone wants to relocate for whatever reasons.  There are many reasons for holding seats and it happens in every sports stadium in the world.  Either way this decision would not have been made by Doncaster.  This decisions will be made by the Box Office manager most likely.

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[quote user="Bobert"]You ain''t got any further legal rights to information. What is in the published accounts is your lot. All you can do is refuse to adopt the Accounts at the AGM. That resolution goes with the majority of shares and Delia and Co have that majority. Why you think there is no further share issues?[/quote]

Cheers Bobert, not good news but I won''t shoot the messenger . . .

I''d wondered about the share situation myself.  What governs the club''s capacity to issue more shares?  Is it the asset value?  If that''s the case, the asset value has increased enormously since the new stands were built so there''s no reason why it can''t happen. 

What you seem to be implying is that they COULD raise more money through a share issue, but they haven''t because it would water down the current major shareholders'' control of the club?  Please correct me if I''m wrong . . .

 

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As promised, an update on my two-month quest for the Annual Report to include the amount of profit made by the catering operation.  Please see above for the story so far . . . 

I have had the following reply from ND, dated 16th November:

"Thank you for your letter of [date] regarding the catering operation at Carrow Road.  Can I suggest that when we release our accounts for the year ended 31 May 2006 (which we expect to do within the next month), you contact me again at that point with specific further information that you require."

So is that a yes or a no . . .? 

 

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As regards the issue concerning empty seats in the stadium, it does seem strange that the seating allocation can''t be better organised in some matches. At the Sunderland game there was a large block of empty seats in the area sectioned off with netting for away fans in the Jarrold Stand. Why couldn''t the netting be moved closer to the Barclay End of the stand, thus freeing up more seats for home fans? Is this to complicated logistically? If so, why??

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[quote user="mystic megson"]

As promised, an update on my two-month quest for the Annual Report to include the amount of profit made by the catering operation.  Please see above for the story so far . . . 

I have had the following reply from ND, dated 16th November:

"Thank you for your letter of [date] regarding the catering operation at Carrow Road.  Can I suggest that when we release our accounts for the year ended 31 May 2006 (which we expect to do within the next month), you contact me again at that point with specific further information that you require."

So is that a yes or a no . . .? 

 

[/quote]

I''m impressed by your tenacity Mystic.....but it''s spin all the way and a ''need to know'' attitude at best.

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In Reply to the original post about the seats and collums. I may be a bit of a fool here but when they designed the new stand wouldnt it have been logical to place the pillars where the barriers between the fans are? That way you are knocking out two birds with one stone?

Or alternatively places the collumns by the stairs so that the only person whos view is obscured is the stuards?

Its not rocket science is it?!!!

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[quote user="chicken"]

In Reply to the original post about the seats and collums. I may be a bit of a fool here but when they designed the new stand wouldnt it have been logical to place the pillars where the barriers between the fans are? That way you are knocking out two birds with one stone?

Or alternatively places the collumns by the stairs so that the only person whos view is obscured is the stuards?

Its not rocket science is it?!!!

[/quote]

Actually it is fairly close to Rocket Science....

irrespective of where the columns are they will obscure part the view of those between them and the pitch.

The New South Stand is designed with a cantilever Roof so there are no Columns and the City Stand is equally Column Free and the netting barrier allows for flexibility in away ticket allocation which in theory allows for more home fans when they cannot sell all their tickets.

Because of the height and design of the Barclay and the River end there are two massive columns at each end that block off part of the pitch to anyone behind them.

I believe that the impact has been reduced in the Commune Corner by the design of the lower tier to allow ambulance access and the rake of the seats in the upper tier.

All of the above were designed at leisure to allow for any fan in the stand to have an uninterrupted view of the pitch.

The Snakepit and the other infill were rush jobs added when we were in Europe and were installed with a view to get bums on seats rather than a view of the pitch - this means that unless there is an excessive desire for tickets the club don''t sell the tickets with restrictive views but its better to have them available to sell for the big games than have an empty space. 

To remove the columns would mean that the roofs of the Barclay and River End will fall down.

But no doubt as part of the City Stand second tier plans the club will look to use some rocket science to remove these last two columns and allow a clear sight of the pitch throughout the ground.

This still does not explain how with  24,000 sales a 90% attendance means that there are 1 in 10 empty seats of Sold tickets (ie excludes those we do not sell and those under netting) - Where are they? I cannot see them - now that is Rocket Science!

On the other hand the campaign for more columns starts now. - Why should it only be the lucky ones with a restricted view who have to watch the inept displays that have been put on lately? - build more columns I say or even put some discreet curtains up for the point in the game when we have had enough....

 

 

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