charlies dad 0 Posted October 25, 2006 Heard the game on the radio last night from the second half onwards. Bitterly disappointed, it goes without saying, for a number of reasons. It struck me that among a few players, that blatantly hadnt turned up for the night, Ryan Jarvis was clearly struggling to make an impact. I have always harboured doubts about Jarvis, but if ever a golden opportunity presented itself, last night, for Jarvis, this was it. If Eagle appears ahead of Jarvis in the pecking order, then he can have no complaints, given the limitations of the opposition, Jarvis has hardly put down a marker for Saturday. Several others may (hopefully) be drawing to the end of fairly undistinguished Norwich City careers, given the lack of hunger they continue to show in games. It seems a couple of half decent performances and Norwich City think the jobs done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rudolph Hucker 0 Posted October 25, 2006 He doesn''t seem to have developed as a player over the last tree years, wonder if he ever will? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cluck 0 Posted October 25, 2006 Maybe being overlooked and unvalued by the Worthington era it will take a while for them to believe they have prospects of first team football.I don''t know.....but what do we do about it? They are all we have in reserve. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alex_ncfc 643 Posted October 25, 2006 Nah, blown it a long time ago. Too late for him now. I say we should look to the future and stop "hoping he will come good" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old Boy 0 Posted October 25, 2006 [quote user="cluck"]Maybe being overlooked and unvalued by the Worthington era it will take a while for them to believe they have prospects of first team football.[/quote]Here we go again - blaming Worthy for the all the failings of his players. "Unvalued" - when did he ever show the manager his value? Certainly never in the reserves when I watched them - unlike Eagle, and any other young player who really, really wants to establish himself in the first team. There''s a touch of the McVeighs about him IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ca 1 Posted October 25, 2006 I don''t think he''s ever going to make the grade but I won''t make my mind up until Ive seen him a few more times in the first team, he may just be short of confidence which Granty may be able to sort out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cluck 0 Posted October 25, 2006 [quote user="Old Boy"][quote user="cluck"] Maybe being overlooked and unvalued by the Worthington era it will take a while for them to believe they have prospects of first team football.[/quote]Here we go again - blaming Worthy for the all the failings of his players. "Unvalued" - when did he ever show the manager his value? Certainly never in the reserves when I watched them - unlike Eagle, and any other young player who really, really wants to establish himself in the first team. There''s a touch of the McVeighs about him IMO.[/quote] Some mules need a stick to make them move.......others a carrot.I''ve no problem with your veiwpoint.......but can you say ''hand on heart'' that youth was ever an option for Worthington?........He favoured ''an old head'' above raw talent and the kids at the club knew it. In the end it saps your energy and lowers your personal expectations.......This is a new era and they should be given a chance to grow. Then if nothing.......move them on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meeky 0 Posted October 25, 2006 I don''t think he has, and neither does PG if these comments are anything to go by?Meanwhile, Grant also backed Ryan Jarvis to improve after handing him a start on the left wing before moving him inside behind Robert Earnshaw and Youssef Safri was sacrificed. “I thought he started the game and didn''t maybe understand what we wanted him to do in that position and I thought that caused us problems early in the game,” Grant said. “That''s why I had to balance it off and put young (Robert) Eagle out there who''s done ever so well. I moved Ryan in behind where I know he''s comfortable and where I know he can play. “He did better in there. People call that the ''Jolly'' role, but not for me it''s not and he''s got to work extremely hard to get on the ball and he''s got to do that better. “In periods in the game he did it, then rested, and there''s no rest in this game and no rest in this team. He''ll get better at it. He understands that now. “But I was disappointed I had to sacrifice Youssef for that, but that''s football. You''ve got to get on with it.”Hopefully Ryan will take these comments on board and try and improve as a player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canary cherub 1 Posted October 25, 2006 Hang on a minute. He''s only 20 years old.From what I''ve seen he has good potential as a predatory box player (scoring twice against Rotherham), but lacks another string to his bow at this stage. If Earnie leaves in January he could come into his own. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
charlies dad 0 Posted October 25, 2006 [quote user="mystic megson"]Hang on a minute. He''s only 20 years old.From what I''ve seen he has good potential as a predatory box player (scoring twice against Rotherham), but lacks another string to his bow at this stage. If Earnie leaves in January he could come into his own.[/quote]If Norwich City sell Earnshaw and try and replace him with Jarvis, there will be blood on the streets. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mook 0 Posted October 25, 2006 Not necessarily true, Cluckin, as Shackell (and Kenton was fairly young too) proves. Ok, Worthington waited too long to put him in, but he clearly rated him as a player.I just think it''s a case of him not being up to the required standard - not really his ball skills, but his determination, strength and pace leave a lot to be desired. IMHO at a high level, you need at least one of the three traits I''ve listed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,351 Posted October 25, 2006 [quote user="mystic megson"]Hang on a minute. He''s only 20 years old.From what I''ve seen he has good potential as a predatory box player (scoring twice against Rotherham), but lacks another string to his bow at this stage. If Earnie leaves in January he could come into his own.[/quote]Spot on Mystic. He was expected to be Huckerby last night and it was the system that was failing. Surely if it was Jarvis failing Eagle would have replaced him and Safri would have been left on. The 433/451 we play is a system that suits us when Huckerby and Croft are both in the team.I do agree however that if we play 442 on Saturday then Eagle must surely be in front of Jarvis to start.Jarvis could then get a go up front if Earnshaw isn''t fit. If he is fit I would try Earnie with Dublin in a 442. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old Boy 0 Posted October 25, 2006 PG changed that system nutty, so that Jarvis could play in his favoured position, but he still didn''t do anything. He''s scored some good goals, but so''s Paul McVeigh. PG''s sussed him - "In periods in the game he did it. Then he rested, and there''s no rest in this game, and no rest in this team". That''s Jarvis in a nutshell, and Jarvis should take responsibility. No-one else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apprentice 0 Posted October 25, 2006 [quote user="mystic megson"]Hang on a minute. He''s only 20 years old.From what I''ve seen he has good potential as a predatory box player (scoring twice against Rotherham), but lacks another string to his bow at this stage. If Earnie leaves in January he could come into his own.[/quote]He may only be 20 but it wasn''t that long ago he was playing in the same England team as Wayne Rooney & Aaron Lennon!!!!!! I just don''t believe he has what it takes to become championship player, he has always been a luxury player no doubt he has skill but he it not workmanlike enough for a team likes ours imo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XXL16 0 Posted October 25, 2006 I go to the game yesterday so I can comment, I think the main problem for him in the first 20 minutes is he is absolutely not a left sided player, so when he played on the left side, he was disappeared; ok when he was moving inside forward to play 4-4-2, then sometimes he get the ball, he just don''t know how to do? Lack of communication with the senior players.A game for him to forget, maybe on Saturday if we start him up front then he would be a little bit better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Huddy 0 Posted October 25, 2006 The problem is that most people by the time they get to Jarvis'' age would have had alot of first team opportunities. He has probably got a lack of confidence and will need alot of good coaching for him to ever have a chance of him becoming a good player. His problem now he has reached 1st team level is the lack of a major strength, unfortunately hs hasnt got pace to burn neither has he a 6ft plus stature. He is stuck in between, and for that reason for Jarvis to become good we need to find a system which he can fit into. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,351 Posted October 25, 2006 [quote user="Old Boy"]PG changed that system nutty, so that Jarvis could play in his favoured position, but he still didn''t do anything. He''s scored some good goals, but so''s Paul McVeigh. PG''s sussed him - "In periods in the game he did it. Then he rested, and there''s no rest in this game, and no rest in this team". That''s Jarvis in a nutshell, and Jarvis should take responsibility. No-one else.[/quote]I think it''s more likely that PG changed the system because it wasn''t working. For all the pre-match hype about Grant wanting to win the Carling Cup I felt he experimented a bit during this game. However, that can only be a good thing and proves he has a plan B or C and is prepared to try it during a game which makes a refreshing change.As for Jarvis, I have never been convinced. I have posted before that he always looks the part but never seems to see it through. I wish he had all his ability coupled with Hendersons or Eagles fight. Out of all the fringe players given a go by Grant so far I feel that Eagle has convinced most. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dionysus 0 Posted October 25, 2006 I harbour my doubts about Jarvis but, unlike Henderson, I haven''t seen enough of him play to completely make my mind up. Why on Earth haven''t we sent him out on loan to a lower division club. Surely someone out there must want our highly-rated young forward? If not, then that tells a story in itself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
a1canary 0 Posted October 25, 2006 I am extremely surprised that PG put Jarvis out on the left. Espeicallysince he said himself only the other day he wasn''t in to playingplayers out of position. Just as i said in the "we must blood youthplayers" post, Eagle had to be given his chance on the left with Jarvisup with Dublin, keeping Earnie fresh and uninjured. Since he had already said about playing players out of position, why doit in the first place when you have just as good a prospect if notbetter ready made for the left hand side? At least he changed it pretty quickly and credit to him for that andfor explaining his reasons - NW wasn''t in to explaining himself -i wonder how much longer that will last with PG?!PG will be looking to decide quickly if Jarvis and co can cut it orif they''ll be following the likes of Llwellyn, Forbes, Coote, Crowe andBloomfield rapidly down the leagues.I think he''s going to know quite quickly if he can work with them or ifhe wants to let them go so it really is make or break time for the young Canary Chicks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Shrimper 0 Posted October 25, 2006 I don''t think he scores enough goals to be a striker at this level, I still would like to see him given a central midfield role. They''ve done this with Chris Martin in the reserves & he seems to be coming on leaps and bounds. Ryan certainly hasn''t progressed as we would have expected - he really needs to be starring in the reserves, then graduating to the 1st team in merit, but that doesn''t seem to have happened yet. He has the ability to be a top-class player but does he have the hunger? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canary cherub 1 Posted October 25, 2006 [quote user="apprentice"][quote user="mystic megson"] Hang on a minute. He''s only 20 years old.From what I''ve seen he has good potential as a predatory box player (scoring twice against Rotherham), but lacks another string to his bow at this stage. If Earnie leaves in January he could come into his own.[/quote]He may only be 20 but it wasn''t that long ago he was playing in the same England team as Wayne Rooney & Aaron Lennon!!!!!! I just don''t believe he has what it takes to become championship player, he has always been a luxury player no doubt he has skill but he it not workmanlike enough for a team likes ours imo. [/quote]apprentice, he''s not Rooney or Lennon and we''re not Manu U or Spurs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unlucky Fried Kitten 0 Posted October 25, 2006 Can you imagine young Ryan leaving the field dripping with sweat and panting after the tremendous effort he''s put in? No, neither can I. To not quite paraphrase Worthy - I CAN fault his work-rate and commitment. That criticism can be levelled at several of our current playing staff unfortunately. You feel like giving a few of them a good boot up the arse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cluck 0 Posted October 25, 2006 [quote user="Mook"]Not necessarily true, Cluckin, as Shackell (and Kenton was fairly young too) proves. Ok, Worthington waited too long to put him in, but he clearly rated him as a player.I just think it''s a case of him not being up to the required standard - not really his ball skills, but his determination, strength and pace leave a lot to be desired. IMHO at a high level, you need at least one of the three traits I''ve listed.[/quote]You may well be right.......but traditionally this club has blooded youngsters, if only to sell on....and to come up with just the two names shows something is lacking. I haven''t really seen the will to play the kids.....and therefore how can they shine on the bigger stage? Rooney got a start at just 15.It isn''t only Worthingtons fault as has been said.....more like a poor scouting set-up over the years has seen the quality fall. Ips**t seem to find them....so why don''t we? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mook 0 Posted October 25, 2006 [quote user="cluck"][quote user="Mook"] Not necessarily true, Cluckin, as Shackell (and Kenton was fairly young too) proves. Ok, Worthington waited too long to put him in, but he clearly rated him as a player.I just think it''s a case of him not being up to the required standard - not really his ball skills, but his determination, strength and pace leave a lot to be desired. IMHO at a high level, you need at least one of the three traits I''ve listed.[/quote]You may well be right.......but traditionally this club has blooded youngsters, if only to sell on....and to come up with just the two names shows something is lacking. I haven''t really seen the will to play the kids.....and therefore how can they shine on the bigger stage? Rooney got a start at just 15.It isn''t only Worthingtons fault as has been said.....more like a poor scouting set-up over the years has seen the quality fall. Ips**t seem to find them....so why don''t we?[/quote]I just think if we had a gem, or even a rough diamond, any manager would play them. Even the crap managers! Forgot Bellamy, by the way. I think we are at a huge disadvantage due to our location (ie half of our catchment area is in the sea! and the rest are villages, hardly a hotbed of hungry young football talents) and due to the fact that Norwich is a nice place to be a young, rich man.Ok - so is London, but there is so much competition there. In Norwich, if you''ve come up through the youth academy, you''re the main kid on the block. I think Ryan enjoys this too much, just like Coote, Crow, Kenton and others before them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dame to Blame 94 Posted October 25, 2006 [quote user="Mook"][quote user="cluck"][quote user="Mook"] Not necessarily true, Cluckin, as Shackell (and Kenton was fairly young too) proves. Ok, Worthington waited too long to put him in, but he clearly rated him as a player.I just think it''s a case of him not being up to the required standard - not really his ball skills, but his determination, strength and pace leave a lot to be desired. IMHO at a high level, you need at least one of the three traits I''ve listed.[/quote]You may well be right.......but traditionally this club has blooded youngsters, if only to sell on....and to come up with just the two names shows something is lacking. I haven''t really seen the will to play the kids.....and therefore how can they shine on the bigger stage? Rooney got a start at just 15.It isn''t only Worthingtons fault as has been said.....more like a poor scouting set-up over the years has seen the quality fall. Ips**t seem to find them....so why don''t we?[/quote]I just think if we had a gem, or even a rough diamond, any manager would play them. Even the crap managers! Forgot Bellamy, by the way. I think we are at a huge disadvantage due to our location (ie half of our catchment area is in the sea! and the rest are villages, hardly a hotbed of hungry young football talents) and due to the fact that Norwich is a nice place to be a young, rich man.Ok - so is London, but there is so much competition there. In Norwich, if you''ve come up through the youth academy, you''re the main kid on the block. I think Ryan enjoys this too much, just like Coote, Crow, Kenton and others before them.[/quote]Spot on Mook our catchment area is a problem with this crazy rule of having to live within an hour an a half of Norwich we are at a big disadvantage now and it is showing in our lack of quality coming up through the youth ranks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
a1canary 0 Posted October 26, 2006 Is that true barclay? Do our academy players HAVE to come from within an hour and a half away?If so then there''s absolutely no question that that is resulting inlower quality graduates. We had a repuation akin to Crewe for our youthset-up but that is disappearing down the drain fast. That reputationcomes from regularly churning our quality graduates that net the clubvital revenue just as happens at Crewe. It''s no surprise that the lastyouth product to net us a decent sum of money, Bellamy, was scouted asa teenager and brought all the way across the country from Wales to ouracademy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mook 0 Posted October 26, 2006 This is the problem, A1. Crewe get the "rejects" (hardly!) from Man U, Citeh, Liverpool, Everton etc etc. Even Ips***h qualify to get the rejects from North-East London, which puts them at a massive advantage to us.We don''t get anyone''s rejects. I think the rule is an hour and half''s drive away, but I believe that you can have a certain number of exceptions. I''m not sure.Pete? Help! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jerzy Krukowski 5 Posted October 26, 2006 I think it''s 1.5 hours travelling time. There were rumours a while agothat ManU nicked one of our prospects and had him flown up there,therby beating the 1.5 hour time limit. Never found out who it wasthough...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreenGreenGrass 0 Posted October 26, 2006 Hi, I thought the rule was an hour and a halfs travel away. In which case, do you think we could start recruiting in Holland? I wouldn''t mind a couple of Ajax rejects coming to carrow road ;-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,351 Posted October 26, 2006 Our insipid Board should have seen this coming and implemented a scouting system on the gas platforms in the North Sea then! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites