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nutty nigel

It's an age thing!

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The mix of people all brought together by their love of a football club has become a very special part of being a football fan. On my row in the Lower Barclay the ages of the people sitting around me I would guess to be 35, 40, 22, 50, 19, 18 and 45. I am the old guy in the middle. They are a mix of men and women, parents, grandparents and teenagers. We all interact together as equals.

On away trips the mix is even more diverse, quite regularly groups of people will be found together discussing the match or other football issues, united by the club they support. These groups are often made up of teenagers through to pensioners, and include people from all different walks of life.

This is all a far cry from how things were in the 60''s, 70''s and 80''s. Of course us older posters have happy memories of the football players of those days, but the terraces were ruled by fear. I can remember the days where people wouldn''t even go into the city shopping on a Saturday afternoon if Norwich had a home match.

This new found community spirit amongst fans is happening to different degrees at clubs all over the country but from what I have seen elsewhere, there is no better example of it than at our own club.

When Delia say''s we are the best fans in the world I like to think that this spirit is a very big part of what she means. 

This message board is much the same. It''s made up of so many different ages and backgrounds all united by our team. I can deduce that I am one of the older posters but I know there are some older than me. There are many, many more younger. This board is special because there is a tolerance on here that is not found on many football boards. There are differences of opinion but no real nastiness between posters, where there could be insults there’s often comedy.

We should be proud of this board in the same way we should be proud of our club.

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Ruled by fear Nutty?  In the late 70s and 80s possibly, but not before or since.

As for Delia''s "best fans in the world" drivel, imo it''s helped to create an unhealthy atmosphere at CR whereby the fans have become bigger than the club.  We''ve already seen where that can lead . . . 

You don''t really believe it''s true, do you?  The best fans in the world do not cheer the opposition when they score against us, no matter what the circumstances.  Even the worst fans in the world don''t do that . . .

 

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Did you wake up in a bad mood today Mystic?? [:)]

My post wasn''t about Delia''s "best fans in the world" comments. I just said that I like to think that the community spirit amongst our fans is a part of what she means. Apart from that this post wasn''t about the Board in any way.

As for whether I believe it''s true, in the main yes I do. And I believe the numbers that travelled to Plymouth for Worthy''s penultimate game is testament to that. Far more so than a few idiots cheering oppositions goals.

I started going to Carrow Road in the late 60''s and there was certainly more fear than there is now. Of course the worst of it was as you say in the late 70''s and early 80''s.

 

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I barely missed a match home or away during the 1970s and never met with any trouble. Those who did find it usually sought it out.

I''m not sucked in by Delias PR spin about how special the Norwich fans are......we''re just naturally tolerant as people.....too tolerant infact.  This board would not have got away with half as much had they been at many other clubs. Unlike many ''big'' clubs, we do not have a very illustrious past. Our highpoints being Div.2 Championships....a couple of League Cup wins and FA Cup semi-finals. Our 3rd place in the Prem. + trip into Europe ended up in financial disaster. While we should be ambitious......we don''t expect the Earth and the Board knows that.

This is a great place to come......despite the regular snipes and I''m certain much more abusive stuff is said in the pub, yet there it would simply go over our heads.

I''m chilled regarding Peter Grant and feel I may have misjudged him based on earlier prejudice.....but I don''t trust this board one inch. The fans are in no way bigger than the club...as was stated above........the truth is that the Board is in total control of things and we get taken along with them whether we like it or not.

 

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Nutty Nigel - Weird that you should post this message as I was going to make a similar point in the thread regarding increasing the capacity of Carrow Rd, the point being that gone are the days when football was the sole domain of one group of society.

I echo your points of days gone by as I used to travel to a lot of away games in the late seventies and early eighties and developed the "away fan walk" (walking around purposefully as if I knew where I was going!!).

Ignore grumpy old Mystic, I reckon he/she is nursing a hangover following a particularly long session at the beer festival!! 

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[quote user="mystic megson"]

As for Delia''s "best fans in the world" drivel, imo it''s helped to create an unhealthy atmosphere at CR whereby the fans have become bigger than the club.  We''ve already seen where that can lead . . .

[/quote]Fans become bigger than the club? The fans are the club! That''s what a club is - not the players, or Board, or management team - it''s the fans, not investors, who make the club what it is, for good or ill.

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Cheers Nutty.  No I was fine until I came on here . . .

Personally I find the atmosphere at CR, even on a good day, inauthentic and nauseatingly sycophantic towards St Delia.  I don''t enjoy it one little bit.  That wasn''t why I didn''t renew, but it certainly made the decision easier.  

Delia and Michael have been involved in the media for 30 years or more.  They know everything there is to know about manipulation.  They''re very good at it.  It makes me sick that they exploit people''s lack of self-worth by telling them they''re "the best fans in the world".  It''s an utterly meaningless statement. 

I feel angry with people for being such a pushover. What will it take for the penny to drop?

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[quote user="Fat Barman"][quote user="mystic megson"]

As for Delia''s "best fans in the world" drivel, imo it''s helped to create an unhealthy atmosphere at CR whereby the fans have become bigger than the club.  We''ve already seen where that can lead . . .

[/quote]
Fans become bigger than the club? The fans are the club! That''s what a club is - not the players, or Board, or management team - it''s the fans, not investors, who make the club what it is, for good or ill.
[/quote]

You don''t really believe that do you, FB?!? If you, I, or even CJF were to tragically shuffle off our mortal coil, there would be nobody to take our place?

Yes, the "fans" as a unit make the club tick. But one fan can easily be replaced by another.

Mystic''s point is that certain fans, and fans groups, believe that they personally are as important as the club. This is, of course, nonsense and leads to the unhealthy "we got rid of him, we''ll get rid of you" attitude that has been prevalent for a while.

Also, Cluckin, will you stop going on about how "tolerant" we are??? You can dress it up how you like, but I would call it APATHY and IMHO it''s reigned supreme in Norfolk for a long while now. People don''t like something, but they can''t be arsed to do anything about it - they just fancy a moan.

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[quote user="Fat Barman"][quote user="mystic megson"]

As for Delia''s "best fans in the world" drivel, imo it''s helped to create an unhealthy atmosphere at CR whereby the fans have become bigger than the club.  We''ve already seen where that can lead . . .

[/quote]
Fans become bigger than the club? The fans are the club! That''s what a club is - not the players, or Board, or management team - it''s the fans, not investors, who make the club what it is, for good or ill.
[/quote]

We''re not in disagreement Barman.  We ARE the club, in the sense that while directors, managers and players come and go, we stay forever.  But no one is bigger than the club.  They need us and we need them.  

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[quote user="Sons of Boadicea"]

Nutty Nigel - Weird that you should post this message as I was going to make a similar point in the thread regarding increasing the capacity of Carrow Rd, the point being that gone are the days when football was the sole domain of one group of society.

I echo your points of days gone by as I used to travel to a lot of away games in the late seventies and early eighties and developed the "away fan walk" (walking around purposefully as if I knew where I was going!!).

Ignore grumpy old Mystic, I reckon he/she is nursing a hangover following a particularly long session at the beer festival!! 

[/quote]

Not at all.  Had some superb cider though, made me walk funny and laugh like a hyena, but head as clear as a bell when I woke up.  Can''t remember what it was called (can''t remember much else actually) but it came from Suffolk I believe . . . credit where it''s due.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Did you wake up in a bad mood today Mystic?? [:)]

My post wasn''t about Delia''s "best fans in the world" comments. I

just said that I like to think that the community spirit amongst our

fans is a part of what she means. Apart from that this post wasn''t

about the Board in any way.

As for whether I believe it''s true, in the main yes I do. And I

believe the numbers that travelled to Plymouth for Worthy''s penultimate

game is testament to that. Far more so than a few idiots cheering

oppositions goals.

I started going to Carrow Road in the late 60''s and there was

certainly more fear than there is now. Of course the worst of it was as

you say in the late 70''s and early 80''s.

 [/quote]

Don''t worry about it nutty - the spirit in which your post was meant appears to have completely passed mystic by!

The best fans in the world thing is obviously a subjective thing and

every club will give reasons as to why their fans are extra special and

i think we have many of them, as do others. 

Either way, you make some worthy and uplifting points!

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I''m with you Mystic. I am occasionally irritated by St. Deals the Patron(ising) Saint of Norwich.

As for the cider ''Suffolk Cider'' on draught at The Walpole Arms, Itteringham is very good and you get it in one of those bulbous, stemmed ''lady'' style glasses.

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[quote user="Mook"][quote user="Fat Barman"][quote user="mystic megson"]

As for Delia''s "best fans in the world" drivel, imo it''s helped to create an unhealthy atmosphere at CR whereby the fans have become bigger than the club.  We''ve already seen where that can lead . . .

[/quote]
Fans become bigger than the club? The fans are the club! That''s what a club is - not the players, or Board, or management team - it''s the fans, not investors, who make the club what it is, for good or ill.
[/quote]

You don''t really believe that do you, FB?!? If you, I, or even CJF were to tragically shuffle off our mortal coil, there would be nobody to take our place?

Yes, the "fans" as a unit make the club tick. But one fan can easily be replaced by another.

Mystic''s point is that certain fans, and fans groups, believe that they personally are as important as the club. This is, of course, nonsense and leads to the unhealthy "we got rid of him, we''ll get rid of you" attitude that has been prevalent for a while.

Also, Cluckin, will you stop going on about how "tolerant" we are??? You can dress it up how you like, but I would call it APATHY and IMHO it''s reigned supreme in Norfolk for a long while now. People don''t like something, but they can''t be arsed to do anything about it - they just fancy a moan.

[/quote]

 

Some punchy stuff on here and it all makes great sense.

Re my comment about being ''tolerant'' Mook........I was trying to say exactly what you said.......but being careful not to be so blunt having been called ''negative'' once too often!

It is apathy, but maybe some of us just realise that what ever we do.........Delia and Co. hold all of the aces and we will ultimately get what we are given.......I don''t like it one bit, but we are mere bums on seats as far as this Board is concerned and as long as we give.....they will take.

It''s their toy......and all we can do is watch.

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I''m not on top form - beer + decongestants = not thinking clearly!However, I think Mystic has read me correctly and we are in broad agreement. I was referring to the fans as a cohesive group - something we sometimes struggle to achieve. I certainly am not trying to claim some omnipotent control of the club on a personal level.I guess what I was trying to get across is that the club ought, perhaps, to be run on the basis of what the fans - in whatever muddle-haded manner is deemed appropriate - think is the way forward. Whilst it is important to try and appoint savvy individuals to the Board, who can make day-to-day decisions without resorting to a referendum, it is equally important that the club not lose sight of the people in whose benefit it is meant to be run - US (no, not United States Yankee!).I believe I misread mystic megson''s original point, but I feel, more and more as time goes by, that there needs to be more accountability of Boardroom to fanbase - perhaps Barcelona-style elections, with each member receiving one vote, to appoint one third of the Board each two years would encourage more interaction between those who may feel somewhat invulnerable and us normal plebs who are feeling somewhat disenfranchised.

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Cluck said -"Delia and Co. hold all of the aces and we will ultimately get what we

are given.......I don''t like it one bit, but we are mere bums on seats

as far as this Board is concerned and as long as we give.....they will

take."Why should we accept it? I''m feeling a little agitated this evening about this (also a little befuddled). I think I was on another forum today, where I recalled Geoffrey Watling saying it was his preference for no individual to ever hold a majority shareholding in our club. This is, however, exactly where we find ourselves - so long as the Stowmarket Two don''t divorce!A solution to the problem resides in the Supporters Trust. They are in the position of trying to be our voice in the Boardroom. It is perfectly possible for Delia and Michael to sign over the voting rights to 2% of teir joint shareholding to the Trust, thus removing their majority voting rights, whilst retaining ownership of their shares. There should be no reason for them to fear the Supporters Trust, as any major decisions are put to a vote of members (one member, one vote). It would simply remain for all fans who aren''t Trust members to pay the £10 joining fee and gain some real influence in the corridors of power. As a bonus, the majority of membership fees goes to buying more shares for the Trust, thus increasing its influence still further.The Trust''s stated shareholding in 2004 was £10,000 worth of shares - that''s pitiful. If Half the season ticket holders joined, they would have enough cash to increase their shareholding tenfold!Come on! Get active and get a voice.

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[quote user="Fat Barman"]Cluck said -"Delia and Co. hold all of the aces and we will ultimately get what we are given.......I don''t like it one bit, but we are mere bums on seats as far as this Board is concerned and as long as we give.....they will take."

Why should we accept it? I''m feeling a little agitated this evening about this (also a little befuddled). I think I was on another forum today, where I recalled Geoffrey Watling saying it was his preference for no individual to ever hold a majority shareholding in our club. This is, however, exactly where we find ourselves - so long as the Stowmarket Two don''t divorce!

A solution to the problem resides in the Supporters Trust. They are in the position of trying to be our voice in the Boardroom. It is perfectly possible for Delia and Michael to sign over the voting rights to 2% of teir joint shareholding to the Trust, thus removing their majority voting rights, whilst retaining ownership of their shares. There should be no reason for them to fear the Supporters Trust, as any major decisions are put to a vote of members (one member, one vote). It would simply remain for all fans who aren''t Trust members to pay the £10 joining fee and gain some real influence in the corridors of power. As a bonus, the majority of membership fees goes to buying more shares for the Trust, thus increasing its influence still further.

The Trust''s stated shareholding in 2004 was £10,000 worth of shares - that''s pitiful. If Half the season ticket holders joined, they would have enough cash to increase their shareholding tenfold!

Come on! Get active and get a voice.
[/quote]

Ohhhhhhh........you can be so forceful sometimes Fat Bra-man.....

Very good point though!

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