The board are to blame for this pathetic shambles

[Shaun Lawson 0]

I''ve been quite shocked by the number of posters, both here and elsewhere, who''ve pinned the responsibility for the miserable state of affairs at our club solely on our miserable, bedraggled manager. God knows, Nigel Worthington has run out of ideas, and is an unrecognisable shadow of the man who, when he became manager almost six years ago, immediately sought to cut through the complacency endemic at Carrow Road, and refused to stand for the kind of halfhearted excuses for a performance which we''d all become so sadly used to. But Delia and Michael''s statement on Monday seems to have drawn the ire away from them - and in my view, it absolutely should not.

The truth is that Worthington should have been dismissed after our shambolic pair of defeats at Luton and QPR almost a year ago. Any other Championship club with even a modicum of ambition - and especially one which had just been relegated - wouldn''t have even thought twice about such a move. It was obvious that the manager had gone stale, and the team had run out of the kind of brio and vitality which characterised our surge to the title in 2003/4. There would have been nothing wrong at all with the board simply saying: "Thanks for the memories Nigel: it''s been a lot of fun at times, but things move on, and it''s time for a change".

Instead, fallibly, disastrously, Delia and the board sat on their hands. There was never the slightest chance that the team would somehow recover past glories, and surge back into contention: as much as anything else, Worthington had lost the 100% commitment and belief in his methods of the players. When a manager has been at a club too long, players get bored of the same old ideas, the same old training routines: they, as much as anyone else, desperately needed a fresh start. But did the board give them one? No. Instead, in their spineless incompetence, they have done the one thing they literally could not afford to do: they have wasted more than a year of parachute payments, in vain support of a man whose time ran out long ago.

Let''s be quite clear about this. If Norwich fail to win promotion this season, our best players will be released, and we''ll have to start again from scratch. We''d be unlikely to be back in real contention until 2009/10 - and this at a time when the new Premiership TV deal means that the gap between the top flight and the Championship is rapidly turning from a gulf into a yawning chasm. Urgency of action was paramount were City not to miss the boat: yet the response of the board has been the exact opposite.

To make matters even worse, since the summer, it''s been clear that those running our club have been hedging their bets: unwilling to give the manager much money to spend, and privately acknowledging that he was on borrowed time anyway. Which, in such a pivotal, critical season, is an absolutely absurd way in which to behave: you can only be 100% behind your manager, or if not, he must be dismissed. There is no in-between - and if he was indeed on ''borrowed time'', why on earth was he still here in the first place?

Any board with even the slightest shred of competence would have ended the manager''s stay in the summer - and allowed a new man to come in with his own signings, his own pre-season, his own ideas. Because inevitably, players are hardly likely to give their all when they know a change at the top is likely anyway. But instead, nine (soon to be ten) games have been wasted, and Norwich are already playing catch-up; and this even before the drawn-out process of finding a new manager (who will want his own coaching staff, and his own players) can begin.

It needn''t have been like this. Had Delia and Michael learnt anything from the Hamilton saga six years ago, they''d have realised when enough was enough, and known when to make a change for the good of the club. Instead, they ludicrously blamed perhaps the most placid, docile local media in the country for ''forcing out'' a man not just frighteningly incompetent, but so divisive that he was loathed by most of his own players; and once again, have shown themselves wholly unable to take the tough, but entirely necessary decision. As a result, no matter what happens over the next week or two, they have squandered much of the trust and goodwill which they worked so hard to build up; and Worthington will depart not with bouquets, but with brickbats. The board are responsible for having such disgracefully low expectations and ambitions, and allowing the manager to drift along for months on end under no real pressure. Their indecisiveness has led to where we are now; and if success isn''t forthcoming in May, it is they who will be to blame.

[JJ 0]

Excellent post.  I think the board have managed the whole situation very poorly over the last year but have largely escaped the flak from the local media.  Worthington''s time is up, but when you look at the bigger picture, they can''t escape the blame either.

 

[Meeky 0]

Good post Shaun agree with all of that.

[Bernard Futter 0]

One of the best most constructive posts I''ve read on here!

With their lack of even the most basic knowledge of what it is like to actually play football, the Wynne-Smiths and the rest of the board don''t understand one vital fact.

There is a huge difference between a team that is not getting results:-

a) with the rub of the green perhaps going against them but showing organisation and cohesion

b) a shambles where the whole is lesser than the sum of the parts

With a) you show patience. with b) you cut your losses as the chances of it being turned round are at best remote.

[Yellow Shrimper 0]

Shaun, you may be right in some, or even a lot, of what you say . . . on the other hand you may be wrong. I wonder, with a lot of posters on this site, whether they actually believe the opinions and assumptions they express are fact, or whether they just express them as fact in the hope that it will, somehow, strengthen their argument. Perhaps it''s essential in a debate on football to make it all sound so serious and important, and express one''s opinions so strongly, when in fact it''s only a game. But, by using the term ''in fact'' am I now committing the same error as those I choose to criticise?

[Cluck 0]

Wonderfully put my friend.......and put with passion.

I hope the likes of Delia Smith et al will read your words and ponder.

 

[jetstream 0]

Well said Shaun, very well put - don''t let Mr Shrimper''s rather patronising comment put you off posting on here. YS implies that football is not "serious and important" which, any fool knows, in the opposite of the truth  Could I suggest you email that to the Letters page of the EDP/Evening News?

[Shaun Lawson 0]

Of course, Yellow Shrimper, it''s just my opinion - but as with all other opinions expressed on this board and elsewhere, that doesn''t make it any the less valid. We can all debate the reasons as to why we''re in this sorry situation - but the bare facts are that our record over the last 55 league games - and over more than two years of away games - is totally unacceptable; and so, for the most part at least, have been our performances too. Many, many times last season, there was no semblance of structure or a pattern to our play as we resorted to hoofing it aimlessly long; and even this season, encouraging albeit at first, has seen the chickens come home to roost of a) our desperately thin squad (not wholly the manager''s fault - but then, this is the man who released Malky Mackay, Simon Charlton and Danny Crow all prematurely); and b) our continued, indefensible, pathetic capitulations away from home.

So any sense of momentum we might have been briefly developing has already gone. At any other Championship club with the slightest degree of ambition, the board would have acted long before now - and if that club had also just suffered relegation from the Premiership, the board would have acted long, long, long before now. Yet at Norwich, we continue to suffer the consequences of our soft touch, cuddly, ''it''s only a game'' mentality - and in their inaction, the board have demonstrated not just a staggering lack of ambition, but given the drift of the team, anger of the fans, and dire economic consequences of failing to go back up within the two year period of our parachute payments, a bewildering degree of utter incompetence too.

Make no mistake: fail to go up this year, and we''ll be right back to square one: right back to that mindnumbing mediocrity we endured under Megson, Walker, Rioch and Hamilton. I remember those days, and don''t want to go back there - and when I see a board whose behaviour has (only in my opinion) made it far more likely that we will return to those dreadfully depressing days, and has squandered the trust and good faith they had worked so hard to build up with us, I, and countless thousands of others, get angry. Because sure, it''s only a game - but it''s one that matters enormously to people who care so much about Norwich City FC, it hurts.

[Pyro Pete 1,891]

I think the fact that the club have become so uncompetitive in the transfer market has had a huge impact on Worthington as a manager. Doncaster made clear that Worthington simply names the players he wants to bring in, the club then attempts to go and get them.  Only one new signing (though a good one) since last season tells its own story. Maybe this is the result of a series of poor signings from a year ago, Hughes, Jarrett, Thorne and co.But if the club doesn''t back their manager in the close-season, how can they expect him and the team to perform once the season begins? It''s been clear to most fans we have a wafer thin squad, and losing Huckerby has shown how missing one key player can have a disasterous effect on results. No team should be this illprepared for adversity.These days a club needs to be competitive off the pitch, as well as on it.

[Shaun Lawson 0]

Thanks jetstream. I would email it to Archant as a letter - but it would be bound to be massively cut, and I can''t help but feel it would lose most of the point I was trying to make. So I sent it to Richard Willner as a possible article: and it''s for him to decide what to do with it (indeed, for all I know, it might just end up edited and in the Letters page anyway). Thanks for the suggestion though, and to everyone else for their words of support too.

[Yellow Shrimper 0]

[quote user="jetstream"]Well said Shaun, very well put - don''t let Mr Shrimper''s rather patronising comment put you off posting on here. YS implies that football is not "serious and important" which, any fool knows, in the opposite of the truth 

Could I suggest you email that to the Letters page of the EDP/Evening News?


[/quote]

I take your point Jetstream, I vowed when I came back on to this site that I would express my own (ever optimistic) views without criticising others for their views, or the manner in which they choose to express them. I guess, in my own way, I''ve started to attack the individual rather than the argument. Lesson learned (I hope)

[Shaun Lawson 0]

Correct of course, Pyro Pete - which is precisely why Worthington should have been dismissed by last summer at the latest. Because in keeping him on, yet effectively hedging their bets, the board have been too scared to squander what little remains of our parachute money by backing a manager who even they, plainly, have had doubts about for quite some time now. They could have done the simple, obvious thing: dismiss Worthington, wipe the slate clean, and back the new man; instead, they''ve done neither one thing nor another, meaning the club has continued to drift aimlessly at precisely the time when it simply cannot afford to do so. And that, as you rightly point out, is more the fault of the board - who are, after all, in charge of the purse strings - than our lame duck of a manager.

[queen be 0]

I agree with most of what you have said Shaun, and I hope you take the suggestion of sending it to the EDP.It was clear at the start of last season things were going very wrong, and comments from the board of ''good managers don''t go bad'' were less than helpful.  The Club needed a fresh approach, Nigel needed a fresh challenge, as simple as that.Action then would have led to a more amicable parting, between the manager and board, the manager and fans.Norwich City will survive, we will live to fight another day as I am old enough to remember other torid times.  I feel deep sadness that it has come to this, the trust squandered as previously mentioned. The longer this goes on the worse it gets, sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind, any parent knows this, and I can only hope action is taken very soon, in the interests of all concerned.

[Cluck 0]

Great thread.......genuinely sound arguments.

My one further point may be that "Norwich City is not attractive a venue to players".  This was the old argument pre Ron Saunders/John Bond........but it shouldn''t be the case now.

Look at Paddon, Neighbour, Livermore (when he was any use), Curran,Bone, Machin,Reeves,Peters etc. on to the more recent Townsend, Fleck, Woods, Bruce, Sutton, Bowen etc etc. Why was it more interesting for them to come here? The word ''prospect'' is probably what they saw. Saunders, Bondie and the fantastic Dave Stringer brought credibility with them into the job. Fair enough the former two had major flaws......but Norwich was a club on the up. Now we are a bunch of second stringers and decent players know that. Why get stuck here with no chance of success. So we end up largely with rejects and someones elses'' problem players.

Also Saunders and Bond had good contacts......much like Harry Redknapp today. Could we have ever imagined having Martin Peters in a yellow shirt? Ted MacDougall and Phil Boyer? I could go on. Like then we were a small club.......so what has happened? A string of poor managerial postings and a weak and ''safety conscious'' board afraid of trying to compete.

I say stuff the hotels and corporate leaisure facilities for out-of-towners and business clients to enjoy....put some decent money on the pitch with a go-ahead manager and make the City vibrant again!

THEN YOU WOULDN''T GET PROTESTS!

[queen be 0]

WELL SAID NORA!! I remember those days too. I know we can be accused of looking back with rose coloured glasses, but it is true we did get those players and what a boost it was for the fans. Even when we were promoted two years ago most outsiders looked to Norwich with respect, now it''s changed and we all know why!

[mbncfc 1]

[quote user="cluckin-nora"]

Great thread.......genuinely sound arguments.

My one further point may be that "Norwich City is not attractive a venue to players".  This was the old argument pre Ron Saunders/John Bond........but it shouldn''t be the case now.

Look at Paddon, Neighbour, Livermore (when he was any use), Curran,Bone, Machin,Reeves,Peters etc. on to the more recent Townsend, Fleck, Woods, Bruce, Sutton, Bowen etc etc. Why was it more interesting for them to come here? The word ''prospect'' is probably what they saw. Saunders, Bondie and the fantastic Dave Stringer brought credibility with them into the job. Fair enough the former two had major flaws......but Norwich was a club on the up. Now we are a bunch of second stringers and decent players know that. Why get stuck here with no chance of success. So we end up largely with rejects and someones elses'' problem players.

Also Saunders and Bond had good contacts......much like Harry Redknapp today. Could we have ever imagined having Martin Peters in a yellow shirt? Ted MacDougall and Phil Boyer? I could go on. Like then we were a small club.......so what has happened? A string of poor managerial postings and a weak and ''safety conscious'' board afraid of trying to compete.

I say stuff the hotels and corporate leaisure facilities for out-of-towners and business clients to enjoy....put some decent money on the pitch with a go-ahead manager and make the City vibrant again!

THEN YOU WOULDN''T GET PROTESTS!

[/quote]

Agreed Cluckin - in fact even the current set up early doors managed to attract some top players - ie Huckerby, Ashton (eventually).

The signings haven''t been good enough, the money hasn''t been spent wisely enough and we''ve relied too much on loans. The only really effective loans have been those I got excited about before they put on a shirt. You kind of knew Huckerby & Crouch would be something worthwhile...

And to Shaun (i think) - I would send that letter in to the papers. Make sure it''s entences are short and snappy, KTF (he he - couldn''t resist) and hopefully they''ll print it. Worth a try definitely (have had some printed myself he says, proclaiming pitiful self promotion to no-one who cares...)

[Getting off the fence 0]

[quote user="cluckin-nora"]

My one further point may be that "Norwich City is not attractive a venue to players".  This was the old argument pre Ron Saunders/John Bond........but it shouldn''t be the case now.

Look at Paddon, Neighbour, Livermore (when he was any use), Curran,Bone, Machin,Reeves,Peters etc. on to the more recent Townsend, Fleck, Woods, Bruce, Sutton, Bowen etc etc.

 So we end up largely with rejects and someones elses'' problem players.

[/quote]

I don''t know if it is deliberate but this is something of a misrepresentation. Norwich have always has a fair proportion of others "rejects" - Crook, Bowen, Woods, Townsend, Dave Watson and Culverhouse amongst them.

Paddon left for a bigger club - West Ham as did David Cross; Reeves and Boyer for a bigger club - Man City; Townsend for a bigger club - Villa; dave Watson for bigger Everton; Fleck left for bigger Chelsea; Sutton for bigger Blackburn; Curran for bigger Wolves; Ron Davies for bigger Southampton; Ruel Fox for Totttenham (or was it Newcastle?). Ted Macdougall said he''d retire if we didn''t let him go!! I could go on and I''m sure that others could add to the list.

We have also had players reluctant to come here - Robbie Earle springs to mind - he chose Wimbledon above us!

Problem players - Fleckie had a reputation at rangers; anybody remember Kieth Robson from West Ham.

We don''t attract as many better players because we are not in the premiership and don''t offer the wages that even a average reserve in the premiership would receive.

Incidentally, however, I agree with you about David Stringer - fantastic is exactly the same word I would use.

[Mello Yello 2,289]

Firstly, a most very excellent and enlightening post Mr Lawson - and I salute you sir![Y]

Secondly, I just hope that the ''priority above the mediocre soccer'' Delia plc ''resty-raunts'' at ''Food Mall Carra Rud'' - don''t also take an unfortunate financial nosedive! As on matchdays, I would much prefer to feast on a blob of stringy sinewy salmon with a sprig of seaweed on top, all washed down with a refreshing glass of ''Asti-Steradent'' (if it doesn''t quench your thirst It''ll clean yer teeth) ultra-expensive bubbly stuff. Than having to purchase a prudent, but huge, family lardy meat pie (or 3) from Morrison''s - followed by 9 pints of Old Scruttocks Micro Brewery''s 9.7%  "G''urn boil yer ar$e" lobotomy lager (in the morning you''d wish you had no brain!)..........Because, ''Al the Cart'' nosh, and quaffin'' vinegar vino - is all the rage if you are affluent and can be seen to afford it. So, for the club and the aesthetically unpleasant carbuncle on the skyline Carter constructed although wunnerful B&B hotel type thingy to survive - I insist, that more wonga is pumped into the conference, corporate entertainment and the hotel for executive relief side of things. Then, maybe they can dig the 3/4 of a million squid pitch up, and Delia can plant an'' grow some fresh vegetables for her cafe''s, an'' stuff.

Thirdly, I''ve just polished off 14 pints of ''G''urn'' and I really haven''t a clue what I''m ramblin'' on about - but, will you be my mate?[<:o)] [:|] 

[charlies dad 0]

[quote user="Getting off the fence"][quote user="cluckin-nora"]

My one further point may be that "Norwich City is not attractive a venue to players".  This was the old argument pre Ron Saunders/John Bond........but it shouldn''t be the case now.

Look at Paddon, Neighbour, Livermore (when he was any use), Curran,Bone, Machin,Reeves,Peters etc. on to the more recent Townsend, Fleck, Woods, Bruce, Sutton, Bowen etc etc.

 So we end up largely with rejects and someones elses'' problem players.

[/quote]

I don''t know if it is deliberate but this is something of a misrepresentation. Norwich have always has a fair proportion of others "rejects" - Crook, Bowen, Woods, Townsend, Dave Watson and Culverhouse amongst them.

Paddon left for a bigger club - West Ham as did David Cross; Reeves and Boyer for a bigger club - Man City; Townsend for a bigger club - Villa; dave Watson for bigger Everton; Fleck left for bigger Chelsea; Sutton for bigger Blackburn; Curran for bigger Wolves; Ron Davies for bigger Southampton; Ruel Fox for Totttenham (or was it Newcastle?). Ted Macdougall said he''d retire if we didn''t let him go!! I could go on and I''m sure that others could add to the list.

We have also had players reluctant to come here - Robbie Earle springs to mind - he chose Wimbledon above us!

Problem players - Fleckie had a reputation at rangers; anybody remember Kieth Robson from West Ham.

We don''t attract as many better players because we are not in the premiership and don''t offer the wages that even a average reserve in the premiership would receive.

Incidentally, however, I agree with you about David Stringer - fantastic is exactly the same word I would use.

[/quote]I would take issue about some of the ''bigger clubs'' in your list. blackburn???? west ham? Soton?? maybe at the time they had a little more money.  

[Cluck 0]

Well Mello baby..........I''ve just wet my pants..........

[Cluck 0]

GOTF.......there are rejects and there are rejects......need I say more?

 

As for the players who came and left........I think you''ll find that even the big boys can''t hold onto the stars in the end.....i.e. Cantona, Ashley Cole, Van Nistelknob, Rooney, blah de blah, blah de blah..........

The fact is that they came.......gave us bloody good service and made us quite a few squid when they left.  I wonder what Worthingtons rejects are worth on the market...Billingsgate at best...........

[Getting off the fence 0]

Charlies dad wrote - "I would take issue about some of the ''bigger clubs'' in your list. blackburn???? west ham? Soton?? maybe at the time they had a little more money."

That is my exactly point. We have always lost players to other clubs/ bought other clubs "rejects." Some in here aretrying to pretend that it is a new phenomenon. It has happened for the 40 odd years that I have been watching and regret that it always will be the case.

The very carefully argued ppoint hat he made does not stand up - except his point on Stringer.

[Getting off the fence 0]

[quote user="cluckin-nora"]

GOTF.......there are rejects and there are rejects......need I say more?

[/quote]

Please do. Current "rejects" include Huckerby, the much loved Mcveigh, Etuhu, Doc, etc.

[Middle of the Road 0]

[quote user="just-cluckin"]Well Mello baby..........I''ve just wet my pants..........[/quote]

This is more evidence about the age of most WO protesters on this board!

[Cluck 0]

You seem to have a serious sense of humour problem mate........and an unpleasant tone.

There is a bully in every playground and perhaps thats where you belong............

[......and Smith must score. 1,341]

I knew it, I just knew it......

We get a widely acknowledged brilliant post from Shaun Lawson --- brave man, unlike me and most others, posting under his ( I assume ) real name --- and what happens ? After a nice long meander through reasoned opinion we resort to , " My dad''s bigger than your Dad ", Yah-Boo insults.

Shame on you MOTR and just-cluckin.......

 

 

[Shaun Lawson 0]

[quote user="......and Smith must score."]

I knew it, I just knew it......

We get a widely acknowledged brilliant post from Shaun Lawson --- brave man, unlike me and most others, posting under his ( I assume ) real name --- and what happens ? After a nice long meander through reasoned opinion we resort to , " My dad''s bigger than your Dad ", Yah-Boo insults.

Shame on you MOTR and just-cluckin.......

[/quote]

Oh well, you can''t have everything I suppose. Guys, this is outrageous advertising and blowing my own trumpet, I know - and feel free to berate me to high heaven for doing so - but bearing in mind my original post seems to have gone down so well with so many of you, this is just to let you know that I''ve started a blog, which I intend to be keeping regularly updated over the weeks and months ahead. It''ll cover all things to do with the game we all love - and inevitably, will be bound to feature a considerable amount of NCFC-related stuff. Indeed, my very first post is on that very topic! You can view it at:

http://thebigfeller.blogspot.com

Comments and opinions are very welcome - as, of course, is letting other City and indeed other football fans know about the blog. I will, I promise, try to cut down on the length of my posts (which, as you''ll see, is certainly a criticism that can be made of what I''ve written) - though in mitigation, in writing for a wider audience, I had to cover quite a lot of background which I hopefully won''t need to do in future. Anyway, let me know what you all think - and thanks to everyone for your support. I guess it''s official: there''s yet another, ahem, ''citizen journalist'' in town...

[arrdee 2]

great post shaun , what the fan''s and every one has to remember is the fact that the manager has no idea what he is doing . we will never be playing for a place in the champions league or being much above bottom 3 in the prem . lets get someone in to do that very thing , and

i know who it is.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    remember a day spent out of norfolk is a day wasted , 6 out 47, say no more.           

[Getting off the fence 0]

I agree that Shauns post was better than the vast majority posted on here but I would have appreciated a resonse to some of my points. Even I can''t be wrong about everything surely?

[Ron Stella - Fattest Canary in the Land 0]

Great post Shaun, I agree with you on every point. I have tried to convey that sort of message throughout my posts but, have been misunderstood. The fact that the Paddon and Peter''s years are still fresh in my mind with all that has followed, this has to be the most frustrating period in my Norwich City supporting history.

Sack the Board! Sack the Manager!

Outsiders control our club with Outsiders dear to their hearts. Corporate hospitality is killing the game of football for the ordinary supporter. Give me a pie and a pint, anyday.

The Norwich City Independant Supporters Association should have a control on what happens at our football club or total control.

There are too many corporate distractions around our ground that have harmed our football club.

Reminds me of Burnden Park, when Bolton had a superstore in a corner of their ground. What an eyesore!