Why Outers can never lose

[KidCanary 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

[quote user="KidCanary"]Guys he''s not debating here whether or not the manager should go, he''s debating fans dissatisfaction, the justification there of and the manner with which they display it.  My worry is that with each future manager its going to take less and less to go wrong before people start calling for his head.[/quote]

Thats a very good point KidCanary, the only problem as I see it is this is a very important season as next season we don''t get 6 million of parachute money from the premiership - balancing the books becomes a lot harder.

If we do get a new manager what should we expect?  I feel we have an underacheiving squad - so an improvement must come quickly, a whole rebuilding job like George Burley had to do at Southampton is not required.  If the manager that is brought in has a good track record then results should come quickly.  Is one available??

Someone mentioned Derby on here - good manager Billy Davies, wouldnt have minded him.

[/quote]I think this is one of the reasons why i think Worthington shouldnt go aside from my own views of last season and this, because I cant really think of anyone better than him at the moment (not saying their isnt) and its going to use up our transfer kitty to find out, which we both agree needs to be spent on the squad.With regards to the forms of protest etc, its not that people are protesting per say, its more they people that seem to spear head this movement that concerns me, I read this forum quite alot and some of the main instigators change their mind like the wind but are very vociferous, these are the people that worry me with regards to stability and any future management.

[Mook 0]

"If the manager that is brought in has a good track record then results should come quickly"

Like Venables at Leeds? Dalglish at Celtic? Gullit at Newcastle? Dowie at Charlton? Le Guen at Rangers?

Results come quickly? Not always how it works, mate.

[0Amarillo<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>ddMMyyyy0Falseen-US<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>True 0]

It does remind me of national politics. Whenever we have a change of prime minister, of course not everyone supports them, but think of the feel-good factor there was in 1997, and now look at how Blair is viewed. Does every public figure eventually fall from grace? Most of them do it seems, as the bad decisions mount up and overshadow the good ones.

You can confidently predict that the next manager will have a honeymoon period at the start and burn out in the end. The question is, how long will that middle bit be? 20-odd years like Fergie and Gradi, or 20-odd minutes like Niall Quinn? 10 years of Curbishley would do....

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Mook"]

Bloody hell, I''ve heard it all now. "Oh for a chairman like Simon Jordan ... "

You fancy Trevor Francis as manager, CJF??? Oh, hang on. Better fire him, he''s useless after all. Palace are no better off than we are, and they''ve got through more managers than most.

Ok - it looks like people are taking action, by firing their manager. Although it fools the fools .... sorry, fans .... in to thinking they are "stopping the rot", in many cases they just make it worse.

However, in our case, we need a change. But I don''t want to be the next Leeds or Sunderland or Palace just changing manager every 18 months. It gets you nowhere in the end.

[/quote]

Trevor Francis did a poor job for in a year and a half AND WAS SACKED!!  YES SACKED AND HE DESERVED TO BE SACKED AND IT WAS THE CORRECT DECISION they were heading towarsds relegation zone and patently underacheiving!!  

Simon Jordan Appointed Ian Dowie after a period of caretaker managership with Steve Kember which wasnt working.  He also appointed Steve Bruce previously whom did a decent job before Francis came in and ruined all the good work, before walking out and has subsequently done a decent job at Birmingham.  he may also have appointed Steve Coppell in the past I am not sure.

OUR BOARD APPOINTED AND TRIED TO REFUSE BRIAN HAMILTON''S RESIGNATION while we were heading to towards the relegation zone!!!

Fortunatly we couldnt convince him to stay or god only knows where we would be now....

 

[queen be 0]

I''ll go for the 10 years with Curbs!

[USAcanary 0]

Guys, Blah is using the divide and conquer tactic to try and gain sympathy for Worthy.

He accuses others of a marketed campaign while at the same time he launches his own spin campaign to try and bolster Worthy.

He attacks anyone who doesnt think Worthy is doing a good job (that would be almost everybody)

He never admits that Worthy has made any mistakes.

He never wants to discuss any of the clubs problems

Those who want worthy gone have a vested interest in the future of NCFC.

We care about the club.

What does Blah care about? Not about the club or the majority of fans?

Its OK if he slates the board or the fans but when anyone posts anything against Worthy they are being negative.

This is Hypocrisy at its finest

 

[Mook 0]

CJF, I don''t doubt our board are quite scarily ignorant sometimes.

The point I was making is Palace have had 4 managers in the time Worthington has been here, and they have ended up no better off than us.

It''s all a bloody lottery. You get a good manager, he gets poached or wants to leave. You get a bad manager and he gets fired. You get an average manager, like we have, and lo and behold!! We''re stuck with him!!

And USA - I''m pretty sure Blah has admitted Worthington''s mistakes. He, like a fair few of us, is aware that sacking him isn''t going to necessarily make things better.

Let''s hope it does.

 

[LinkNR9 0]

[quote user="USAcanary"]

Guys, Blah is using the divide and conquer tactic to try and gain sympathy for Worthy.

He accuses others of a marketed campaign while at the same time he launches his own spin campaign to try and bolster Worthy.

He attacks anyone who doesnt think Worthy is doing a good job (that would be almost everybody)

He never admits that Worthy has made any mistakes.

He never wants to discuss any of the clubs problems

Those who want worthy gone have a vested interest in the future of NCFC.

We care about the club.

What does Blah care about? Not about the club or the majority of fans?

Its OK if he slates the board or the fans but when anyone posts anything against Worthy they are being negative.

This is Hypocrisy at its finest

[/quote]

As usual, USA Canary, a very perceptive post.

[sts 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

 

Not only this, you can sell your T-shirts carrying your message for your cult, accept "donations" for your campaign using paypal (it''s ok, they must be a charity), and even sell advertising on places like WorthyOut and Vital Football where you tell people how the club is in turmoil this week, and in the case of WorthyOut, give you a nice safe place to hate the manager with people of a like mind.

Like I say, I take my hat off too you. 

Hatred as a product, who''d have thought ?

[/quote]

Blahx3 -YOU ARE TOTALLY OUT OF ORDER.  The Worthy Out organisers have input £1000s of pounds themselves.  Far from making money they put their hard earned into this site BECAUSE IT IS WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN.  This is deformation of charactor.

[Cyril Z Snodgrass 0]

Blah humbug

Not much revelance there to what has actually happened on anything is there.

 Many fans give millions and millions as gifts; they certainly were not for a purchase as they do not actually get what they paid for - Delia''s words - you deserve better. Maybe in your eyes Delia counts less than Worthington. Unlike those making loans the fans have no chance of getting their money back. On the question of Marketing, one of the all time great rip-offs in changing the strip to fleece youngster of their pocket money. 

I hope next manager will create an atmsophere that players  will consider it a joy to play for Norwich.

On balance, considering the ambuigty in the recent statement, you might be just right that the will be a further "out" . From the public at large, not only the web-sites. If the groundswell is anything to go by it will be the Board to come under fire if there is not undisputable improvement. I believe the public are utterly sick of spin and they no longer taken in by false assurances from anybody. Who cares while the gates are good?  The Club will when a younger generation wants to wear a winning team''s colours instead of a floundering local club that seems determined to bury it''s head and the club in it''s grounds. Ratner is trying to make his way back from the wilderness after pushing his customers too far.

I do wonder whether your real sport is hockey. For all I know you could be an eleven year old  schoolgirl winding up her elders with glee. 

 

  

 

 

[USAcanary 0]

[quote user="Mook"]

CJF, I don''t doubt our board are quite scarily ignorant sometimes.

The point I was making is Palace have had 4 managers in the time Worthington has been here, and they have ended up no better off than us.

It''s all a bloody lottery. You get a good manager, he gets poached or wants to leave. You get a bad manager and he gets fired. You get an average manager, like we have, and lo and behold!! We''re stuck with him!!

And USA - I''m pretty sure Blah has admitted Worthington''s mistakes. He, like a fair few of us, is aware that sacking him isn''t going to necessarily make things better.

Let''s hope it does[/quote]

Hand on heart, if I thought things would improve going forward with Worthy I would back him.

If we were a club who had small crowds and little money I could accept that we have no right to be challenging for the Prem.

The plymouth result seemed to send a lot of people who supported Worthy over the edge.

To me that is frankly shocking. My opinion is based on several seasons not on 1 or 2 games.

Given the squad and resources, Worthy has frankly failed.

Based on ALL the evidence i cannot see how anyone can come to any othe conclusion?

I cannot believe any manager given his resources would have done as poorly.

I am convinced many could have done a better job.

Last year the division was frankly mediocre and we could not even challenge for promotion.

This year there are many more teams with much more money.

The scary thing is we have not even played most of those teams yet.

Its always a gamble changing the manager but in this case I dont see how it can be worse.

I seriously think we could be heading for relegation without a huge shakeup.

We have some good players but for whatever reason they dont deliver.

Jason Jarret last year played well for just about every club except ours?

Most players who leave either slag off worthy or have nothing to say (good pro)

Nobody ever says "I enjoyed my time at Norwich and learned a lot from the manager"

 

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]Blahx3 -YOU ARE TOTALLY OUT OF ORDER.  The Worthy Out organisers have input £1000s of pounds themselves.  Far from making money they put their hard earned into this site BECAUSE IT IS WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN.  This is deformation of charactor.[/quote]

My apologies, crisis, if you aren''t actually getting people to click on the donate button, I guess others don''t share your enthusiasm to the extent of paying for the service you offer.

You can''t deny that the potential is there though.  Maybe you''ll break even with the next manager ?

As you say, the organisers have spent 1000s of pounds in a concerted effort to defame the character of Nigel Worthington.  Isn''t it fair that their position is questioned in open debate ?  That their motives are discussed ?  A truly free and open organisation would have no problem with this.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

But the whole point now is that it has, in many ways, gone beyond a simple matter of whether the results or performances improve. Thier is now a huge divide between the management of the club (and to a lesser extent the board) that will not be closed whilst worthington remians our manager. Personally I think there are enough footballing reasons why worthington should be sacked (him being inept being the main one) but for me the harmony of the club and not losing the support of a large chunk of the fanbase is equally important. Can those (2 or 3) of you still saying you think worthy should stay genuinely put your hand on your hearts and say that he is so good a manager that it is worth tearing the club apart in order to keep him?

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]Can those (2 or 3) of you still saying you think worthy should stay genuinely put your hand on your hearts and say that he is so good a manager that it is worth tearing the club apart in order to keep him? [/quote]

I can''t think of a manager who is available currently with a record comparable to his, and who would take the job.

Curbishley has been mentioned, but he''s turned down West Brom, and I can''t see it happening to be honest, although I''d be thrilled if it did.

Most likely we''d promote from within.

Can those among the alleged "thousands" who will take to the streets with red cards this weekend, come up with the name of a manager with a comparable record, who they could genuinely see wanting to  take the job ?

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Mook"]

CJF, I don''t doubt our board are quite scarily ignorant sometimes.

The point I was making is Palace have had 4 managers in the time Worthington has been here, and they have ended up no better off than us.

It''s all a bloody lottery. You get a good manager, he gets poached or wants to leave. You get a bad manager and he gets fired. You get an average manager, like we have, and lo and behold!! We''re stuck with him!!

[/quote]

Very true, and as with everything Mook it all comes down to the fact that Worthy did do a good job, but the board just seem unable to remove him when the time was right.   maybe because they see Bruce Rioch, Mike Walker and Brian Hamilton as failures.   I don''t feel Mike Walker had a chance with his squad, Rioch was unlucky with Bellamy and Hamilton was awful. 

Maybe the bored are scared of the managerial appointment they are going to have to make? They appear gutless so perhaps it is all fear of change.  Or maybe it just is Jobs for friends at NCFC...

[Unlucky Fried Kitten 0]

Comparable record? Our Nige has an incomparable and undesirable record - SIX wins from the last 47 away league matches. There must be several managers around who have managed at least 7 wins from that number of games!

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

I can''t think of a manager who is available currently with a record comparable to his, and who would take the job.

[/quote]

WHAT A MANEGR LIKE WORTHY WHO HAS LOST MORE GAMES THAN HE HAS WON IN MANAGEMENT!!!!!

YOU''RE DELUDED BLAHBLAHBLAH

I would say 20 managers in the championship are doing a better job than him at the moment.  Considering the funds he has had to spend.

Magilton/Foley Dream Team Please....

 

My god - he isnt that good a manager!!!  FACE FACTS 

GARY MEGSON HAS WON 2 CHAMPIONSHIPS AND HE ISN''T THAT GOOD A MANAGER EITHER.  HENCE THE LACK OF PREMIERSHIP INTEREST IN HIM. OR UNSURPRISINGLY LACK OF ANY INTEREST AT ALL (MUCHLIKE WORTHY).......

[blahblahblah 2]

Oooh, look at all the colours, pretty.

If I tried to print that post, my printer would run out of ink.

Oddly enough, you didn''t mention the name of a single manager that you thought could replace worthington.

I suspect this is because, if you had, we''d end up comparing their respective records.

Care to prove me wrong, mr. 18 pt bold strong Arial capital letters ?

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]Comparable record? Our Nige has an incomparable and undesirable record - SIX wins from the last 47 away league matches. There must be several managers around who have managed at least 7 wins from that number of games! [/quote]

And still you can''t name one who is available...

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

A better manager with a better record whom is available?? Um Err   - Gary Megson.

Next

[ZLF 274]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

I can''t think of a manager who is available currently with a record comparable to his, and who would take the job.

[/quote]

 

LOL blah - was that bit forged by the clubs speech making teams?  It says nothing at all with 4 caveats in one 22 word sentence - and I am a little disappointed you didnt add that ''I would want'' just to leave no room for manoeuvre. 

''I cant think'' - doesnt mean the club cant find one or that some onee else cant locate someone

''who is available''  - why do they have to be available?   We have some funds and manager is one of the key positions in the club so is a good use of funds for the board to get their man.

''a record comparable'' - 2 points, first NW himself had no real record when he joined us yet look what he achieved, so I dont see that as a pre-requisite, and in many ways I would prefer an eager youngster with something to prove than an experienced old hand at the end of his career; and his record is a promotion, many other managers have acheived this or more to their name,

''who would take the job'' - have you canvassed the opinion of all possible candidates to know what they are thinking? Thats an odd cold call for a fan!    Who would not want to manage a club with a supportive board, big fan base, excellent facilities and a transfer budget. Even allowing for the revolting peasants who dare express an opinion on match day thats an attractive job.

This is by no means an endorsement of either manager (in fact I dont want them - but I didnt want NW either) but even allowing for your restrictictions (apart from the last one) Peter Reid and Bryan Robson seem to fit the bill.

 

  

[JC 0]

Why would they be available?  We would make an approach, the same as other  clubs do!

You have lost the plot.

 

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

[quote]Comparable record? Our Nige has an incomparable and undesirable record - SIX wins from the last 47 away league matches. There must be several managers around who have managed at least 7 wins from that number of games! [/quote]

And still you can''t name one who is available...

[/quote]

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,023]

"Available" has nothing to do with it, how many managers have walked out on one club and into another job ?. As for managers for Norwich City, I would suggest the following;

Alan Curbishley

Mike Newell

Paul Simpson

Steve Tilson

[Jim Smith 2,317]

But you miss my point entirely Blah, blah, blah.

 

Notwithstanding the fact that there are lots of managers either avialable or whom we could poach who have better records than worthington or more potential, my point is that regardless of his record, his relationship with the majority of the fanbase is now so bad as to be irretrievable. It is not going to change and until he goes the club will continue to suffer!

[Unlucky Fried Kitten 0]

How should I know who''s available, blah? It''s not my job to go head-hunting. What I do know is that with a bit of research I could soon find several managers who are superior to Worthless, and well you know it. And doubtless I would find a large number of managers among the 92 league clubs with more than 6 away league wins from 47 - let''s face it it''s pretty a dire record by anybody''s standards - even yours! I refer you to the responses to your foolish contentions from CJF, ZLF, JC, SOB and Jim Smith, they more than adequately contradict you.

[blahblahblah 2]

Fair point zipper, although I''d argue that the transfer budget is less available than you claim on the basis of the summer''s activity, and we tend not to let managers do their own deals here, I would imagine that most managers would want a more hands on approach than we allow to transfers.  So, name your man.  Who takes us forward from here if Worthington goes ?

[quote]''who would take the job'' - have you canvassed the opinion of all possible candidates to know what they are thinking? Thats an odd cold call for a fan!    Who would not want to manage a club with a supportive board, big fan base, excellent facilities and a transfer budget. Even allowing for the revolting peasants who dare express an opinion on match day thats an attractive job[/quote]

[USAcanary 0]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"][quote user="blahblahblah"]

I can''t think of a manager who is available currently with a record comparable to his, and who would take the job.

[/quote]

 

LOL blah - was that bit forged by the clubs speech making teams?  It says nothing at all with 4 caveats in one 22 word sentence - and I am a little disappointed you didnt add that ''I would want'' just to leave no room for manoeuvre. 

''I cant think'' - doesnt mean the club cant find one or that some onee else cant locate someone

''who is available''  - why do they have to be available?   We have some funds and manager is one of the key positions in the club so is a good use of funds for the board to get their man.

''a record comparable'' - 2 points, first NW himself had no real record when he joined us yet look what he achieved, so I dont see that as a pre-requisite, and in many ways I would prefer an eager youngster with something to prove than an experienced old hand at the end of his career; and his record is a promotion, many other managers have acheived this or more to their name,

''who would take the job'' - have you canvassed the opinion of all possible candidates to know what they are thinking? Thats an odd cold call for a fan!    Who would not want to manage a club with a supportive board, big fan base, excellent facilities and a transfer budget. Even allowing for the revolting peasants who dare express an opinion on match day thats an attractive job.

This is by no means an endorsement of either manager (in fact I dont want them - but I didnt want NW either) but even allowing for your restrictictions (apart from the last one) Peter Reid and Bryan Robson seem to fit the bill.

[/quote]

I would love to know the relationship between blah and NW/club. You are not the first to question where his loyalty is?

His bias is incredible to the point of making statements of fact which have no factual basis or eveidence to back them up.

All the reasons he gives for not ditching worthington have nothing to do with Worthington himself

The reason being that Worthys record is lousy so he tries for the "better the devil you know" tactic.

He slates the board, the fans, everyone but worthy.

Nice PR tactic.Fortunatly the fans here are smart enough to see through this spin and rubbish.

 

 

[Getting off the fence 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

A better manager with a better record whom is available?? Um Err   - Gary Megson.

Next

[/quote]

Gary Megson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is that what the WO campaign want?

I''m speechless.

[sts 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

 Isn''t it fair that their position is questioned in open debate ?  That their motives are discussed ?  [/quote]

However, your comments were not debate, but statements which are untrue and in fact libelous.  I am surprised the moderators allowed that post to be published. 

 

[Cyril Z Snodgrass 0]

Blah humbug,  what did you do before the 11th of May ?