So what would be success for NW this term?

[Tumbleweed 106]

On the old Pinkun board we got loads of posts urging the departure of NW. We got some saying that he''s done well since the dark days of Hamilton. I sway this way and that (it often depends on my mood at 4.50pm each Sat)

So why don''t we agree what would be failure (resign now), poor (give him one more year to improve) acceptable (jury still out), good (extend contract by one year) and exceptional (instant 5 year contract extension).

I reckon:

Failure: Relegation or narrow escape up to 6 points
Poor: bottom half
Acceptable: Top half, outside play offs.
Good: Play offs
Exceptional: Promotion (auto or via Cardiff).

At least then we can all be vociferous in agreeing what happens to him in May next year.

[Mook 0]

Blimey, took me a while to work this new-fangles message board out. Don''t like change....

I agree almost entirely with your terms of success/failure. However, I would say that reaching the play-offs would be better than good. I think with our threadbare squad and a few not particularly gifted players, it would be a major achievement to reach the play-offs. Like it was back in 2002.

I would also like to say well done Rich for giving Worthy a break til christmas. As one of his long-term fans, I too am giving him til christmas to improve our attacking play, creativity and positive attitude. The reason I liked him so much is after years of watching a spineless team crumble and hide it was nice to see some grim determination. However, now we have some determination (thanks to NW), it would be nice to blend that with some skill.

Also, I think with a good strong aggressive and attacking frontman, McVeigh would shine. He can obviously score, but is also very, very creative. We don''t (and never did) need Connolly with an on-form McVeigh, we just need to replace Nielsen/Iwan/Abbey with someone who really wants those goals.

[rich 0]

I''d be disappointed with anything below what we achieved last season, which was eighth and making a push for the playoffs. I think the key is to be seen to be making some progress, I''m not even expecting it overnight. Just if the signs are there. Which I think so far they have been. Though as I say it''s early days.

I agree on mcveigh mind mook, I think he''s key. I think with francis and holt both capable of winning the ball, mcveigh can be free to do what he does best and create. If we got a deadly goalscorer up alongside him he would certainly get his chances from mcveigh, rivers and co.

[Vlad 0]

Where''s the ambition and where''s the sense of perspective?

Div1 is a tough one to get out of because anybody can beat anybody...so they say. When you look at the strength (and spending power) of the teams that went up versus the crud that came down the divison has been weakened. Remove Ipswich (weakened squad, no cash)& Sunderland* (better 2nd half probably, but weakened & demoralised) from the equation and add in our improvements (general perception is that we strengthened - well done NW) and the play-offs are realistic. And thats before you look at our finishing position in the last two seasons. NW wouldn''t say it in public and thats because he has sense (why court additional pressure).

*Straight swap: three relegated teams generally thought to be favourites to go up + Ipswich finished in 7th.

Why would it be acceptable to finish worse off than last year? 7th is the lowest we should set our sights.

Relegation?! Don''t make me laugh - there are worse teams with less money and more problems than City in the division. Anything can & does happen in football, but over the course of a season City being relegated isn''t one of them.

In summary;
Failure - bottom half
Poor - outside top 7
Acceptable - last year posn/play-offs
Good - that 2nd berth
Exceptional - outright win

As I opened with "anyone can beat anyone". Take that as a +ve or -ve, as fans we have to be +ve, who else will?

AND ANOTHER THING - what is all this rubbish about being a fan of NW? I support NCFC regardless of the man in charge. Thats not a dig at Tumbleweed (did like your post, honest) just a few others on this board.

ONWARDS & UPWARDS!! ON THE BALL CITY!

[Vlad 0]

Sorry, Rich, hadn''t seen your post when I composed and posted mine :-)

[Tumbleweed 106]

Good to see someone with ambition Vlad, I agree with your sentiments. I still think that it would be exceptional to get a top two spot as we would need probably 10 points more than in any season since relegation. My real fear is that just a couple of injuries could stuff us up as has happened before, and realistically we will get injuries (heaven forbid McVeigh, Green or Drury). So I tempered my ambition on that basis and I personally think NW will have done well to get there.

Failure? I guess bottom half would be a very poor showing and a backward step (managers very rarely claw their way back up once the league position starts slipping), so poor would be worse than last year but not bottom half (ie 9th to 13th).

But is it "acceptable" to finish 7th or 8th? Difficult to say, I would be disappointed, but as you say anyone can beat anyone so just a couple of bad bounces, penalties, own goals etc could make all the difference................

I''m hoping for a win on Saturday, so that shows I have a madly optimistic streak too........!!

[rich 0]

that''s fine vlad, always happy to have sumone to agree with me, very rare on here:)

[Northern Yella 0]

Finsihing in the Playoffs in my opinion wud b a very good season, top eight wud be satisfactory, anything less wud b a disapointment.

Let''s b realistic we have established ourselves as a side that is there or thereabouts at the end of the season, not a side capable of getting automatic promotion. We don''t have as many goals in the side as someone like Forest, or the strength in depth of someone like West Brom, the Hammers or increasingly Reading and Sheff Utd.

So lets not judge worthington unfairly, yes he has some weaknesses that are very noticeable like failing to teach players how 2 defend leads or play away, which it maybe argued is totally unacceptable. But 4 Norwich to consistently finish in or around the playoffs represents an achievement until our young stars develop.

[Blainsey 2]

Sorry but have to say it..i honestly feel that anything less than being in the play-offs would be a disappointment.

We took a step backwards last season by not finishing in the play-offs, and not finishing in that top 6 again would be a problem! NW is now entering his 4th season as a NCFC manager. How long do we need to give him to get it right? I appreciate that people will churn out arguements to counter this...such as see what Fergie achieved at Man Utd and how long had he been there before any trophies arrived..etc etc. But we are a Div 1 side with limited resources. We do need stability, agreed, but if we don''t achieve the play-offs this season, then the board will have to seriously consider NW''s position.

I am a staunch NW fan, and have angered people on here before by sticking by him. But let me just make this point now. It is not NW that I am a fan off, but any manager who is appointed. I was over the moon when we appointed Bryan Hamilton, and was loyal to him during his reign. But realistically, how many more seasons can we give NW before the team goes stale?

That was what worked for us in 01/02. NW steadied the ship for his 4 months in charge, then over the summer completetly revamped the team''s style and playing staff. The result being that we took the Division completely by surprise. Other teams just didn''t know what to expect. NW has only made minor changes since that season, and other teams know what to expect when they play us, giving them a greater chance to try and think of tactics to counter us.

NW has my full support this season, but I have to say that failure for us this season would be anything outside the play-offs.

[Karl Pilkington 0]

Im tending to see things black or White.

Playoffs would be success anything else in all honesty would be a disappointment.

[Tumbleweed 106]

Seems to me in answer to the original question it becomes quite simple. In view of responses above it appears that:

Success= Play Offs
Failure= Not in play offs

So let''s see where we are in May. Anything 7th or below and Nigel should move aside. So now we can give him support until then, he''s an ambitious chap and he knows he will have to deliver something soon, even if only to further his own career.

[chicken 0]

Just a few ingredients to throw into the stew really. I can tell you now that as long as we finish in the top half Worthington will stay. How do I know this? I suggest you go and read the Canary Preview. Basically Wyn-Jones states in that that he doesn''t believe that a manager can''t be at his best untill after at least two or three seasons and the man has a point.

He works it out like this; 1st season he works with the squad he inherits, second season he re-moulds the sqd to his liking and at least starts to get the players he wants into the team, the third season he strengthens the squad and gets them to gell and play together and get to know each other well.

And for the information, this is the third season Worthington has started with the club, I think its a little unfair to class the half a season as caretaker manager gifted with the task of avoiding relegation he had to start with, that was the task he had to complete before anything he wanted to do with the team could be done.

Plus we have had two good full season under him, one average season may not be enough to see him go and I for one would be happy with that. I can''t see where he has gone incredibly wrong. So far this season things are going as you would expect and perhaps hope for, we drew with a Bradford side that didnt give up at all even at 2-0 down, we were away and it was the first game of the season. We beat Rotherham, and we lost away to Shfd Untd. I would love for someone to argue any of these results!

Sure I would love us to beat these teams and a desperately want to but all in all when you look at where they were last season you have to consider that so far only the Bradford result was shameful and like a commentator said on Sky the other day, the first game of the season could go either way simply because it depends who has got the most out of pre-season, only judge things after the first three games as the players have started to settle into the rhythm again by then.

And losing 1-0 to a quality team is nought, they are after all one of the favourites for automatic promotion, especially seeing that all the other "big" teams haven''t got their act together yet.

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

Sorry but flicking through the message board I found this from last August. I thought it made pretty interesting reading! If I''m going to throw in my two cents, I''d be pretty annoyed if we didn''t go up! Ok, with the beneift of hindsight I''m cheating a bit!!

[ZLF 271]

I remember this series of posts - there were dozens at the time and seemed to dominate the message board.

If I remember rightly my views (clearly on some of the other posts at the time) was that this was a make or break season for Worthy. He finally had a squad that could be called his own, had added some potentially sound players, and had efficiently ditched many of the poor squad hangers on. As such if he couldnt deliver this season it was down to him and his selections, tactics etc. (not blarneymeisters cast-offs) and we should look to replace him if we didn''t make make some progress (ie get back in the play offs).

However whilst supporting him for the coming season I was not optimistic that he was the right man for the job due to obvious tactical short-comings - I am glad that as usual my incisive views and foreight were spot on - NOT.

Having said that making ONLY the play offs now would seem like a disaster.

Apologies to Worthy from the doubting Zipper...

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