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Racist fan MUST get Carrow Rd ban.

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[quote user="TwoSheds"]

Read this & then think long & hard!

Cue assorted drivel....

[/quote]I''m proud to be English. I just don''t think racial abuse is OK, under any circumstances.Got a problem with that?

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Thought you were on a sabbatical Hucker ?    still , now your here

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 have to intervene, this thread is starting to go off beam and be ruled by people''s personal experiences.

Going back to the theme of the post; if the fan in question had accepted the advice nothing more would have happened: but he couldn''t leave it, could he. He got nasty and brought it all on himself.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then you launch into  your own personal experiences !  LOL 

Surely  your missing a point here ?    just who`s got a right to " educate "   who ?     most people in a crowd are adults ,   and can decide for themselves  how they behave  ,  the sure way to antagonise people  [ especially if they`ve had a few ! ]  is to start lecturing them  on how they should behave !  a football  ground  is a place  where  , traditionally , things are said  that  are not normally said  elsewhere  !   why can`t the PC brigade  just leave it at that ?   we didn`t see them mouthing  off  outside  that mosque in London   , when the one eyed  two hooks was preaching  death to all  westerners !  you DO see the hypocracy in all this ?  .............?? 

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Followed this debate and can see both sides of the story.

IMHO I think he has been punished by the courts, had a haze of no doubt embarrassing publicity and for me that is punishment enough. I believe he has no history of this type of offence, so I would personally would not ban the man.

Does not mean I condone his statements, but we all say things we regret and if he is repentant, then as I sure we should all try to forgive!

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[quote user="sheded"]

we didn`t see them mouthing  off  outside  that mosque in London   , when the one eyed  two hooks was preaching  death to all  westerners !  you DO see the hypocracy in all this ?  .............?? 

[/quote]

The courts imprisoned him pending deportation.
Personally thats what I''d like to do with all the racist bigots. .
Have we still got a horrible windy rock somewhere with no electicity we could send them to?


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[quote user="sheded"]

Thought you were on a sabbatical Hucker ?    still , now your here

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 have to intervene, this thread is starting to go off beam and be ruled by people''s personal experiences.

Going back to the theme of the post; if the fan in question had accepted the advice nothing more would have happened: but he couldn''t leave it, could he. He got nasty and brought it all on himself.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then you launch into  your own personal experiences !  LOL 

Surely  your missing a point here ?    just who`s got a right to " educate "   who ?     most people in a crowd are adults ,   and can decide for themselves  how they behave  ,  the sure way to antagonise people  [ especially if they`ve had a few ! ]  is to start lecturing them  on how they should behave !  a football  ground  is a place  where  , traditionally , things are said  that  are not normally said  elsewhere  !   why can`t the PC brigade  just leave it at that ?   we didn`t see them mouthing  off  outside  that mosque in London   , when the one eyed  two hooks was preaching  death to all  westerners !  you DO see the hypocracy in all this ?  .............?? 

[/quote]

 

I still think there is a difference between a bit of non pc banter and shouting racial and threatening abuse at one of our players, not that same as sharing a slightly dodgy joke or two. As for hook hand, the guy should have been hung on his own hook (in my opinion)! Why he got police protection for preaching that stuff was way beyond my understanding, and a little bit sick and hypocryitcal, nice to know my taxes are being used well. We do however need to find some consistency.

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[quote user="......and Smith must score."]

Whilst not wishing to make light of what is indeed a serious subject it has occurred to me, that, should David Rennie escape a Carrow Road banning order, can he insist on one being implemented under his human rights bearing in mind the dross masquerading as entertainment that was served up there last season ?

Just a thought.....

 

[/quote]

Can of worms that one , LOL  ...   could ask for a refund    under the trade description act  ? 

Interesting thought though,  since the guy was deprived  of watching  half the match  , then is he within his rights to ask for half   his money back ?   or , if he`s banned  for a season , is he entitled  to his season ticket money back ?  .....      my bet is that he would !   the club might be within its rights to ban him ,  but if they`ve taken his money,  for a promise to allow him entry to the grounds  for a season , can they , legally ,  retain that money  if the club bans him for a season ?   I think not !  

If  a magistrates court  imposes  a  a season long ban    on a season long  ticket holder  , then , as in one case , imposes  a restriction  banning him from travelling  abroad , even taking his passport away !   then , surely  ,  this is depriving   him of a basic human right ,  which is the freedom to travel  where he wants  , when he wants  ?   looks like a case for   the European court of human rights  ......  [:#] 

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[quote user="Herb"][quote user="TwoSheds"]

Read this & then think long & hard!

Cue assorted drivel....

[/quote]

I''m proud to be English.
I just don''t think racial abuse is OK, under any circumstances.
Got a problem with that?
[/quote]

No herb,no problem with that at all. Each to there own is what i say.

The whole issue of the racist abuse has been thrown out of all context,it was an isolated incodent.

I suggest some of you have a walk around the streets of Rotherham,Sheffield,Manchester,Nottingham ect & see if you are then such halo wearing non racists!

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I agree with GJD on this.  The bloke has broadcasted his stupidity and been punished for it.

He''s had a 500 pound fine.  His name and address is in the papers.  People on his street know who he is and what he did.  I would imagine that he feels very vulnerable at the moment, and rightly so, it should teach him a lesson.

If he has any sense, he will steer clear of Carrow Road for the time being until the dust settles anyway, four fifths of the crowd are season-ticket holders, the chances are that both the name-caller and the bloke next to him could be stuck next to each other for the rest of the season if they both chose to attend.  I wouldn''t be surprised if he gets a ban though, you get a ban from all league clubs for running on the pitch and you could argue that what he did was equally as bad.

 

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[quote user="TwoSheds"]

Read this & then think long & hard!

Goodbye to my England,
So long my old friend,
Your days they are numbered, been brought to an end.
To be Scottish or Irish, or Welsh is just fine,
But don’t say you’re English, that’s way out of line.

The French and the Germans,
May call themselves such,
As may the Norwegians, the Swedes and the Dutch.
You can say you are Russian, or maybe a Dane,
But don’t say you’re English, not ever again.

At Broadcasting House,
This word is taboo,
In Brussels they have scrapped it, in Parliament too.
Even schools are affected, staff do as they’re told,
“You must not teach the English, about the England of old”.

Writers like Shakespeare,
Milton and Shaw,
Don’t pupils learn about these anymore?
Hastings and Agincourt, Arnhen or mons,
Where England lost many of her very brave sons

We are not Europeans,
How on earth can we be?
Europe is miles away over the sea
We are English, from England, so let’s all be proud
And stand up and be counted and shout it out loud.


Let’s tell our government, tell the suits in Brussels too
We are proud of our heritage, the red white and blue.
Fly the flag of St George, or the Union Jack
Tell all of the world, we want our own country back.

[/quote]

Food for thought Two Sheds, as you say.

If you''re making the point that Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own assembly or parliament and their own national anthem while "English" gets lumped in with "British", I heartily agree with you.  It pains me to hear "God Save the Queen" at England games.  It''s a British anthem, and should be kept for British teams.  

There''s a line in your poem that sums up the confusion: "Fly the flag of St George, OR the Union Jack".  No! They''re not interchangeable. Even English nationalists can''t get it right!

2007 marks the 300th anniversary of the Union.  What better time to have a debate about it?  Why should England pay the price for shoring up an outdated institution?  It''s time to abolish the Union and have separate self-determining countries imo.

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[quote user="TwoSheds"]

I suggest some of you have a walk around the

streets of Rotherham,Sheffield,Manchester,Nottingham ect & see if

you are then such halo wearing non racists!

[/quote]

Why would I?

I live here.

I have spent plenty of time in Manchester over the last 30 years though and never had a problem.

What problems should I have experienced in your opinion?

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Well, that''s put me in my place, Sheded along with your true blood friend ''Two Sheds.''

How can I argue against a pair of woad wearing, Anglo Saxon card carrying, pure blood Englishmen who have been personally traumatised by lawless ethnic hordes in your former lives.

I know, I''ll get so offended by extreemists I''ll brand anyone who looks like them as being like them, after all, they''re all the same, aren''t they.

And if I go to a football match with any members of my family I have to respect the rights of any individual who wants to become intoxicated, position themselves near me and bellow out their boozy predjudices, it''s all right, it''s a football ground. Let the kids hear the language and afterwards they can ask you all about it.

Perhaps it''s best I don''t go then! I wonder how many others might take the same option. One loud individual spouting his views in....and a few family groups out.

And if we don''t like it, why resort to the law? Sort it out ourselves, the law is wrong anyway, let''s have a fight.

Time I left, I think, so the Shed set can heve this debate all to themselves.

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[quote user="mystic megson"]

There''s a line in your poem that sums up the confusion: "Fly the flag of St George, OR the Union Jack".  No! They''re not interchangeable. Even English nationalists can''t get it right!

[/quote]

You''re very right it''s confusing.  More so because it''s only a "jack" if it flown in a naval institute or vessel otherwise it''s a "flag". 

Oh dear, nerd alert!

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[quote user="Rudolph Hucker"]Well, that''s put me in my place, Sheded along with your true blood friend ''Two Sheds.'' How can I argue against a pair of woad wearing, Anglo Saxon card carrying, pure blood Englishmen who have been personally traumatised by lawless ethnic hordes in your former lives. I know, I''ll get so offended by extreemists I''ll brand anyone who looks like them as being like them, after all, they''re all the same, aren''t they. And if I go to a football match with any members of my family I have to respect the rights of any individual who wants to become intoxicated, position themselves near me and bellow out their boozy predjudices, it''s all right, it''s a football ground. Let the kids hear the language and afterwards they can ask you all about it. Perhaps it''s best I don''t go then! I wonder how many others might take the same option. One loud individual spouting his views in....and a few family groups out. And if we don''t like it, why resort to the law? Sort it out ourselves, the law is wrong anyway, let''s have a fight. Time I left, I think, so the Shed set can heve this debate all to themselves.[/quote]

A classic Rude Old/Linda post.  

Welcome back, I''d begun to wonder if exploring the outer limits of gender identity was more interesting than football?

Leaving aside the moral aspect for a minute, there are certain things you''re not allowed to do in a football ground.  For instance, I feel quite strongly that I should have the right to stand up provided I''m not blocking anyone''s view, and I know what will happen if I do.  If I refuse to sit down I will be asked to leave, and if I object I will be forcibly removed.  If I get really mouthy and threatening, I could be banned.  I don''t agree with it but that''s the way it is.  I''ve got two choices.

Everyone knows by now that racist remarks or behaviour at a football match will not be tolerated.  This bloke probably thought he could get away with it.  He didn''t and he has to take the consequences.

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[quote user="theolster"]

would like to point out that the following are acceptable

1- you FAT ****

2-you BALD ****

3-you LANKY ****

if we ban racisism we should ban all discrimination not just racial.

People think its fine to call someone a fat bald c*** but if you add

the word black all hell breaks loose. Just a thought.

[/quote]

If you can''t see the difference in connotation then you''re having a laugh.

When was the last time you heard of someone being genuinely discriminated against simply for being bald or lanky?

Wake up.

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[quote user="mystic megson"]

[quote user="Rudolph Hucker"]Well, that''s put me in my place, Sheded along with your true blood friend ''Two Sheds.'' How can I argue against a pair of woad wearing, Anglo Saxon card carrying, pure blood Englishmen who have been personally traumatised by lawless ethnic hordes in your former lives. I know, I''ll get so offended by extreemists I''ll brand anyone who looks like them as being like them, after all, they''re all the same, aren''t they. And if I go to a football match with any members of my family I have to respect the rights of any individual who wants to become intoxicated, position themselves near me and bellow out their boozy predjudices, it''s all right, it''s a football ground. Let the kids hear the language and afterwards they can ask you all about it. Perhaps it''s best I don''t go then! I wonder how many others might take the same option. One loud individual spouting his views in....and a few family groups out. And if we don''t like it, why resort to the law? Sort it out ourselves, the law is wrong anyway, let''s have a fight. Time I left, I think, so the Shed set can heve this debate all to themselves.[/quote]

A classic Rude Old/Linda post.  

Welcome back, I''d begun to wonder if exploring the outer limits of gender identity was more interesting than football?

Leaving aside the moral aspect for a minute, there are certain things you''re not allowed to do in a football ground.  For instance, I feel quite strongly that I should have the right to stand up provided I''m not blocking anyone''s view, and I know what will happen if I do.  If I refuse to sit down I will be asked to leave, and if I object I will be forcibly removed.  If I get really mouthy and threatening, I could be banned.  I don''t agree with it but that''s the way it is.  I''ve got two choices.

Everyone knows by now that racist remarks or behaviour at a football match will not be tolerated.  This bloke probably thought he could get away with it.  He didn''t and he has to take the consequences.

[/quote]

 

Not sure what you''re getting at here, are you saying that you think you should be able to stand up and block people''s view for 90 mins as well as hurl racists and non-racist abuse at people because you are at a football game? can''t agree with that.

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As a black man and a Norwich City supporter ( despite what some claim ), I am pleased to see enough sensible points of view willing to tackle this subject, and not for the first time. I would have shaken the man''s hand who had the courage to stand up not only for his convictions but, I suspect, for the convictions of most of the decent people in the immediate vicinity. It is not an easy thing to do. I was raised to believe that you do unto others what you would have them do unto you.

Sheded, you cannot solve the problems of the world by pointing to examples of what exists in other locations and using that as an excuse for your own behaviour. You suggest adults should not have to be lectured to. The fact that some of them need this attention simply means they were not raised correctly and/or exposed to the right education with respect to common decency and respect of others. We should feel sadness for such individuals that they grew up without proper training. However, if as adults, they have no respect for how others feel and utter threats if the error of their ways are pointed out, then they should have to face further consequences.

Rudolph cites the example of the loudmouth comedian and the Asian family in Devon very well. A lot of discomfort felt by many caused by one. Hardly seems fair and just does it? It certainly isn''t decent and considerate.

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[quote user="Marty"][quote user="mystic megson"]

[quote user="Rudolph Hucker"]Well, that''s put me in my place, Sheded along with your true blood friend ''Two Sheds.'' How can I argue against a pair of woad wearing, Anglo Saxon card carrying, pure blood Englishmen who have been personally traumatised by lawless ethnic hordes in your former lives. I know, I''ll get so offended by extreemists I''ll brand anyone who looks like them as being like them, after all, they''re all the same, aren''t they. And if I go to a football match with any members of my family I have to respect the rights of any individual who wants to become intoxicated, position themselves near me and bellow out their boozy predjudices, it''s all right, it''s a football ground. Let the kids hear the language and afterwards they can ask you all about it. Perhaps it''s best I don''t go then! I wonder how many others might take the same option. One loud individual spouting his views in....and a few family groups out. And if we don''t like it, why resort to the law? Sort it out ourselves, the law is wrong anyway, let''s have a fight. Time I left, I think, so the Shed set can heve this debate all to themselves.[/quote]

A classic Rude Old/Linda post.  

Welcome back, I''d begun to wonder if exploring the outer limits of gender identity was more interesting than football?

Leaving aside the moral aspect for a minute, there are certain things you''re not allowed to do in a football ground.  For instance, I feel quite strongly that I should have the right to stand up provided I''m not blocking anyone''s view, and I know what will happen if I do.  If I refuse to sit down I will be asked to leave, and if I object I will be forcibly removed.  If I get really mouthy and threatening, I could be banned.  I don''t agree with it but that''s the way it is.  I''ve got two choices.

Everyone knows by now that racist remarks or behaviour at a football match will not be tolerated.  This bloke probably thought he could get away with it.  He didn''t and he has to take the consequences.

[/quote]

 

Not sure what you''re getting at here, are you saying that you think you should be able to stand up and block people''s view for 90 mins as well as hurl racists and non-racist abuse at people because you are at a football game? can''t agree with that.

[/quote]

No Marty, just trying take this thread back to its starting point, ie. what should happen to Mr Rennie.  Racist abuse is harmful imo, but standing up in the back row of the Barclay isn''t.  Both, however, are prohibited in a football ground.  Both have consequences that can include a ban.  Whether I or anyone else agrees with that or not is irrelevant.  Anyone who steps over the mark in either instance has to take the consequences.

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What is the point of having a ''kick racism out of football stance", if when some one stands up and calls one of our own players A F*****G N****R, they are not banned????

Some of the opinions on here are pathetic and show once again exactly why this campaign still exists and is as important and relevant as ever. Racism is still prevalent in Norfolk and at carrow road unfortunatly. The C word being one I have heard used a fair few times unfortunatly.

I cannot beleive there is even a debate on here about whether he should get a ban!!

He shouted racist abuse

He was politely asked to stop by a fellow supporter

His following actions caused the involvement of the police as fans tryed to remonstrate with him...

If that aint a ban what the hell is?? Did he need to go up to Dickson, chin him, and call him a Lazy N****R as he fell?? Is that a ban??

The best thing I have read about this is how annoyed fellow fans were with his actions. If I here people using the N word I will put my two cents in, and have in the barclay bar.

This chap should be banned for a couple of season''s to make teh point that is is not tolerable behaviour. NOBODY would complain.

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[quote user="TwoSheds"][quote user="Herb"][quote user="TwoSheds"]

Read this & then think long & hard!

Cue assorted drivel....

[/quote]I''m proud to be English. I just don''t think racial abuse is OK, under any circumstances.Got a problem with that?[/quote]

No herb,no problem with that at all. Each to there own is what i say.

The whole issue of the racist abuse has been thrown out of all context,it was an isolated incodent.

I suggest some of you have a walk around the streets of

Rotherham,Sheffield,Manchester,Nottingham ect & see if you are then

such halo wearing non racists!

[/quote]

What are you suggesting will happen if you walk the streets of these

places? I live in nottingham and haven''t found the need to become a

racist. Is that why you left Sheded, all becoming a bit too "ethnic"

for your liking?! As for there being a shooting every week, complete

and utter tosh. It''s one of the best cities in the country and dare I

say I felt a lot more comfortable walking around here with my black ex

girlfriend than I did when being stared at in East Anglia. As for the

bloke this thread is about, presumably his threats of violence are

proof of his alledgedly good character?

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I''m still in a state of shock after finding myself agreeing with CJF and YC in the same thread.I think I''d better go and have a lie down... ;)

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[quote user="Herb"][quote user="theolster"]

would like to point out that the following are acceptable

1- you FAT ****

2-you BALD ****

3-you LANKY ****

if we ban racisism we should ban all discrimination not just racial. People think its fine to call someone a fat bald c*** but if you add the word black all hell breaks loose. Just a thought.

[/quote]

If you can''t see the difference in connotation then you''re having a laugh.
When was the last time you heard of someone being genuinely discriminated against simply for being bald or lanky?
Wake up.
[/quote]

Many times !   but , obviously  such things never happen in your world .....  weren`t you ever called a nerd at school ? didn`t you ever get your head smacked  for being  a little snot ?  

People are discriminated  against   for all sorts of reasons , didn`t you  know that ?   I`ve  known you to discriminate  against  poor spellers   on this board    !   more than once !!   haven`t you heard of dyslexia  ? 

YOU wake up ! 

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[quote user="sheded"]

People are discriminated  against   for all sorts of reasons , didn`t you  know that ?   I`ve  known you to discriminate  against  poor spellers   on this board    !   more than once !!   haven`t you heard of dyslexia  ? 

YOU wake up ! 

[/quote]

I can''t even spell it :o)

OK, it''s now obvious we come from polar oposite standpoints.
If you don''t understand the history, connotations and undertones of the word in question then personally I think you need to educate yourself to understand the difference.

I think we''ll have to agree to disagree

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[quote user="SPat"][quote user="TwoSheds"][quote user="Herb"][quote user="TwoSheds"]

Read this & then think long & hard!

Cue assorted drivel....

[/quote]

I''m proud to be English.
I just don''t think racial abuse is OK, under any circumstances.
Got a problem with that?
[/quote]

No herb,no problem with that at all. Each to there own is what i say.

The whole issue of the racist abuse has been thrown out of all context,it was an isolated incodent.

I suggest some of you have a walk around the streets of Rotherham,Sheffield,Manchester,Nottingham ect & see if you are then such halo wearing non racists!

[/quote]

What are you suggesting will happen if you walk the streets of these places? I live in nottingham and haven''t found the need to become a racist. Is that why you left Sheded, all becoming a bit too "ethnic" for your liking?! As for there being a shooting every week, complete and utter tosh. It''s one of the best cities in the country and dare I say I felt a lot more comfortable walking around here with my black ex girlfriend than I did when being stared at in East Anglia. As for the bloke this thread is about, presumably his threats of violence are proof of his alledgedly good character?
[/quote]

All depends on the area you live in   Spat !   if you live in a naice area  , like West Bridgford  for example  , then your pretty well insulated  from the nitty gritty !  as long as you don`t stray into the Meadows  late in the evening  ....   

I still have relatives  in the St Anns area   , and they say  they hear  gunfire   regularly  !  sometimes every night ....    so can you blame people for wanting to  move out  ?   its not about " ethnics  "  its about  not wanting to be  knifed or shot   as you walk the streets !   you really should contact  the StAnns police station   on Ransom rd   , I`m sure they will  be glad to update you !

Nottingham   IS  a very beautiful  city   ... in places !   

I left because  of my job !   I stayed because I didn`t want to go back .....   ok ? 

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[quote user="Saint Canary"][quote user="mystic megson"]

There''s a line in your poem that sums up the

confusion: "Fly the flag of St George, OR the Union Jack". 

No! They''re not interchangeable. Even English nationalists can''t

get it right!

[/quote]

You''re very right it''s confusing.  More so because it''s

only a "jack" if it flown in a naval institute or vessel otherwise it''s

a "flag". 

Oh dear, nerd alert!

[/quote]

Don''t worry SC, I spotted that one too...[:$]

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Tell you what, Sheded, just be grateful your family weren''t living in that area in the early 13th century: crippling taxes, obese bald men in cassocks, crotch irritating tights and the regular sound of bowstring twangs is what they would have got.

Even the so called good guy had the infuriating habit of laughing and slapping his thigh as you tried to explain your local concerns, not only that the local militia all spoke with latter day American accents and had to be followed around by an orchestra to accompany them every time they had a punch up.

So, off you would go for a bit of peace and quiet, you''d find a nice woodland glade with gently falling autumnal leaves and a weak sun filtering through the branches and just as you were beginning to unwind up would pop Bryan bloody Adams singing the same bloody son you''d heard a thousand times before.

And where was the bloke in charge? Off in the middle east winding up the muslems and starting up a 1000 year old dispute.

Meanwhile, the local Sheriff was officialdom gone mad and you couldn''t wear you best Lincoln Green tunic for fear of getting banged up.

Ride by twangings were commonplace by men in hoodies and if your name happened to be Marion everyone assumed you were the local bike (and that was 700 years before bikes were invented).

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Made me laugh out loud Hucker.

I know at least seven canary fans from Notts including SPat.

A great city IMHO and a good night out I have had without a hint of trouble on the far too numerous occasion I have stayed there.

Yes these friends have been there for years and they don''t own a gun between them, not even a water pistol!

I shall put that necessary item on their Xmas list though and enrole them for Mafia membership...

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[quote user="GJD"]Made me laugh out loud Hucker. I know at least seven canary fans from Notts including SPat. A great city IMHO and a good night out I have had without a hint of trouble on the far too numerous occasion I have stayed there. Yes these friends have been there for years and they don''t own a gun between them, not even a water pistol! I shall put that necessary item on their Xmas list though and enrole them for Mafia membership...[/quote]

Before you get overcome with your own wit [ or words  that rhyme with it ]    I suggest  you and your cronies  take a walk  through the St Anns area after dark   ...  I can guarantee  an " interesting "  stroll  !   with a bit of luck you`ll just come out a bit lighter  weight wise   , chances are though , that if you get lippy ,  you`ll just end up  in ER  Queens hospital  .... LOL     

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[quote user="Rudolph Hucker"]Tell you what, Sheded, just be grateful your family weren''t living in that area in the early 13th century: crippling taxes, obese bald men in cassocks, crotch irritating tights and the regular sound of bowstring twangs is what they would have got. Even the so called good guy had the infuriating habit of laughing and slapping his thigh as you tried to explain your local concerns, not only that the local militia all spoke with latter day American accents and had to be followed around by an orchestra to accompany them every time they had a punch up. So, off you would go for a bit of peace and quiet, you''d find a nice woodland glade with gently falling autumnal leaves and a weak sun filtering through the branches and just as you were beginning to unwind up would pop Bryan bloody Adams singing the same bloody son you''d heard a thousand times before. And where was the bloke in charge? Off in the middle east winding up the muslems and starting up a 1000 year old dispute. Meanwhile, the local Sheriff was officialdom gone mad and you couldn''t wear you best Lincoln Green tunic for fear of getting banged up. Ride by twangings were commonplace by men in hoodies and if your name happened to be Marion everyone assumed you were the local bike (and that was 700 years before bikes were invented).[/quote]

I fear I hath  hittteth a raw spot  in your psyche   master Hucker !   in truth   one does feel a piffling trifle guilty  that  a person of your obvious  venerable status , has been forced to take time out  from his  " sabbatical "  TWICE !    to respond to  the  postings of a lowly peasant   as myself  ......   I take stock ,  and realise  that  you , and a few others on this board , can`t feel  comfortable ,  unless  your postings  are greeted  with  the  grovelling   agreement  of your  retinue  , sadly , I can`t  promise such   craven , foot licking , obedience  !   

You say your work on this board is done  Hucker , I`ll ask you again , what  " work " is this then  ? answer the question !

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