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Hardhouse44

Money not easy to spend

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Purchasing new players seems to be getting harder and harder for Norwich. Question is WHY. I feel that there are two factors the make it difficult for us to buy.Firstly despite the fact the club keeps telling us fans we ain''t got much cash I think it is thought among our peers that we have. This arises from the facts as some may see it. No huge spending in our premiership season good return on Ashton and now money from Greeno''s sale. This therefore makes team''s price there player up because they think you''ve got money. A bit like we are trying to do to Coventry me thinks.Secondly I feel our wage structure is unappealing to many. If we do manage to agree a price for a player we then have to get them to sign. Now it is well known that we don''t pay the best basic wages in the league. Win bonuses might be good but players want big basics. I have no interest in seeing the club breaking the bank to bring in players. My wonder is should we have been smarter in our transfers. Buy before you sell. Sounds daft but as we know Green was always off so it was money in the bank. Now clubs want it in there bank so everybody we look at is going to cost the same.Wages are a difficult one, we have as far as I know always had a strict wage structure which has always been hard to break. Is the any way round it, not sure but if you don’t pay as much as others in the same league you are always going to struggle in a money orientated world. Calculated gambles will have to be made if we are to get players in, wages could be raised if the returns are guaranteed. How do you guarantee returns, well that’s the art of good scouting and good research something that has not happened in the past which I feel has cost us much to much in wages to player who are not good enough or to loan player who don''t even play.What the answer is as to how to get these new players in is not an easy one but one thing is for sure we don’t have enough player and enough players of quality for a club trying to get in to the premiership.

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Good post hardhouse.

To add to what you''ve already said, I guess the reason we''re having trouble bringing players in is :

  • That the players who are improvements on those we have either already have higher wages, or move on to other clubs who outbid us in either wages or transfer fee.  To improve on what we have, you''re looking at the best Championship players, Premiership reserves and loans, and the occasional rough diamond from lower leagues.
  • Geography.  not many clubs are out this way, not many players either.  Norfolk is perfect for family men like Huckerby, but for younger players who want a bit of life or want to be close to their family, we''re 100 miles from anywhere.
  • Where target men are concerned, demand currently outstrips supply.  Some teams are desperate to have a punt at getting into the Premiership by spending on players with a proven goalscoring record aswell, and we get squeezed when other teams pay silly money.

If / when McKenzie is sold to Coventry, I wouldn''t be surprised to see a bid from Norwich around the 1.5 - 2 million mark for a forward, and 2 or 3 loan signings from Premiership clubs over the next 3 months to cover any injuries.

 

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On the plus side, without new buys coming through the door, maybe we''ll see more opportunities for the youngsters in the side... Even if they fail to make their mark it''s better than seeing another failure with a 500k+ price tag!

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I think many clubs have the same problem in strengthening their squads, not enough money, inflated wages / transfer fees, diffulty into luring good players, difficulty in finding well priced good players, players with bad attitudes (arrogant and demanding) and tight fisted agents, etc etc - Not the club / managers fault. I''m sure we try our best and afterall it is always going to be a fine balancing act. 

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I totally agree with all of you.

I have said before, and I totally agree with Worthington when he says anyone we bring in has to better than we have already got.

It would be so easy to buy a truck load of ageing journeymen with nothing to prove, sure they will do a job in this league but then you are stuck with ageing stars on decent wages who you can''t get rid of..  Unproven youngsters from the lower leagues may or may not cut the mustard at this level let alone the premiership.

We have shown with Lee Croft that it is worth waiting for the right man to come along.  I am sure that the club know who they want, it''s just a question of holding out for the right price.

Historically there has been some stupid prices paid on the last day of the transfer window, but I think that this year may be different.  I think that there are enough clubs on the breadline out there who have, up until now been holding out for top prices.  Come last day of the season these clubs might be faced with the stark reality of having to sell to balance the books.

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[quote user="jimmy500"]

I totally agree with all of you.

I have said before, and I totally agree with Worthington when he says anyone we bring in has to better than we have already got.

It would be so easy to buy a truck load of ageing journeymen with nothing to prove, sure they will do a job in this league but then you are stuck with ageing stars on decent wages who you can''t get rid of..  Unproven youngsters from the lower leagues may or may not cut the mustard at this level let alone the premiership.

We have shown with Lee Croft that it is worth waiting for the right man to come along.  I am sure that the club know who they want, it''s just a question of holding out for the right price.

Historically there has been some stupid prices paid on the last day of the transfer window, but I think that this year may be different.  I think that there are enough clubs on the breadline out there who have, up until now been holding out for top prices.  Come last day of the season these clubs might be faced with the stark reality of having to sell to balance the books.

[/quote] I agree however it didn''t stop Worthington buying a truck load of journey men before. Hughes, Thorne, Robinson, Helveg, Jonsson need I go on. Is the manager the reason why good players won''t come. It''s a thought

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Hardhouse44, name a club without any journeymen? If a good player doesn''t come to Norwich it is not just because of the manager, maybe better offers, more prestigous clubs, geographical lure etc. Is there anything we don''t blame on our manager?

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[quote user="blahblahblah"]

Good post hardhouse.

To add to what you''ve already said, I guess the reason we''re having trouble bringing players in is :

  • That the players who are improvements on those we have either already have higher wages, or move on to other clubs who outbid us in either wages or transfer fee.  To improve on what we have, you''re looking at the best Championship players, Premiership reserves and loans, and the occasional rough diamond from lower leagues.

  • Geography.  not many clubs are out this way, not many players either.  Norfolk is perfect for family men like Huckerby, but for younger players who want a bit of life or want to be close to their family, we''re 100 miles from anywhere.

  • Where target men are concerned, demand currently outstrips supply.  Some teams are desperate to have a punt at getting into the Premiership by spending on players with a proven goalscoring record aswell, and we get squeezed when other teams pay silly money.

If / when McKenzie is sold to Coventry, I wouldn''t be surprised to see a bid from Norwich around the 1.5 - 2 million mark for a forward, and 2 or 3 loan signings from Premiership clubs over the next 3 months to cover any injuries.

[/quote]

Being brutally honest, I would add to the list the point that Worthless''s ''man management'' style leaves a lot to be desired and that message certainly gets around to would-be yellow-shirters... Indeed, I''ve heard stuff about the Green and Foley departures (amongst others) that would make your hair curl...

IMO, from what I''m hearing, all the positives we''ve seen this season have come from Hunter, not Worthless (who has, at least, had the grace to acknowledge the ''magnificent'' appointment of Hunter). 

Look at the coded messages the players have been putting out recently about the new ideas they are trying out this season. Where do you think they''ve come from? Another training manual Worthless read on the beach in Florida this summer?  Naaaah!! Hunter''s ''style'' and ideas (zone, not man, marking for set pieces being one) are reportedly a million miles from where Worthless was/is.

Thank heavens they are all listening to the new man. Just so long as he doesn''t try and take any credit for it. If he does, Worthless will hang him out to dry - as he has done others, players and staff.

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[quote user="Marty"]

Hardhouse44, name a club without any journeymen? If a good player doesn''t come to Norwich it is not just because of the manager, maybe better offers, more prestigous clubs, geographical lure etc. Is there anything we don''t blame on our manager?

[/quote] I have not blamed our manager for everything. However I fail to see how Worthington could not be blamed for those dismal signings. Face the facts the players I listed have cost the club massive amounts of money just in wages alone for Zero return. That’s without listing the loan signs that spent most of the time on the bench. Just because other teams have bad players is no excuse. Would you rather watched that long list of players play and not perform just because they were Nigel’s choice. Mangers live and die by there decisions. Just like any of us in a work environment where you have to make them yourself. Why should he get a free ride regardless.

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i think nobody can blame worthington for not getting players in, and appearing to ignore perfectly suitable players to sign.

on the sutton sit-yoo-a-shun - lets face it he must have enquired and sutton obviously wants too much.

worthington is too experienced to let decent players out of his grip without at least enquiring about them, but nowadays it seems money is forcing his hand...

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[quote user="Oso Butch"]

Indeed, I''ve heard stuff about the Green and Foley departures (amongst others) that would make your hair curl...

[/quote]

Care to substantiate that, or are you just throwing around insinuations and rumours in the hope some of the sh*te will stick?

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[quote]Indeed, I''ve heard stuff about the Green and Foley departures (amongst others) that would make your hair curl... [/quote]

I also thought this was a bit strong from someone who probably has little or no first-hand information.  If, as some people claim, the difference in our performances between last season and this is Hunter instead of Foley, I''m not surprised that Foley was upset about leaving, but it was entirely the right decision to make for the club.  As for Green, he''d made it clear that he had wanted to move on since we were relegated, so what can any manager of the club do in that position ?  Wait for an offer, and keep playing the best available is my guess.

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[quote user="Herb"][quote user="Oso Butch"]

Indeed, I''ve heard stuff about the Green and Foley departures (amongst others) that would make your hair curl...

[/quote]

Care to substantiate that, or are you just throwing around insinuations and rumours in the hope some of the sh*te will stick?
[/quote]

I would, willingly, but any indication of my sources would lose people their jobs. I can only assure that you that I am not in the habit of asserting such things without being confident about them. Sorry I cannot be more specific.    

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[quote user="Oso Butch"][quote user="Herb"][quote user="Oso Butch"]

Indeed, I''ve heard stuff about the Green and Foley departures (amongst others) that would make your hair curl...

[/quote]Care to substantiate that, or are you just throwing around insinuations and rumours in the hope some of the sh*te will stick?[/quote]

I would, willingly,

but any indication of my sources would lose people their jobs. I can

only assure that you that I am not in the habit of asserting

such things without being confident about them. Sorry I cannot be more

specific.
    

[/quote]

I''ve said it before and I''ll say it again: if you had that much respect

for this person, you wouldn''t ply them for information in the first

place, nor would you then put it out as something you believe to be

concrete.

I know someone who works within the club - not especially well, but

know him nonetheless - but wouldn''t even think to ask him for inside

information, lest he put his own job on the line.  And in the

unlikely even that I did ask, I would hope his response would be two

words, ending in ''off''.

At the end of the day, he''s in a position of trust, and I respect him enough to let him have his secrets.

Your "source" would also be best placed to shut up - if he''s that

important, and his job is on the line, he should think about the

consequences of blabbing to someone who then runs around saying "hey,

guess what I heard..."

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[quote user="Death of Canaries"][quote user="Oso Butch"][quote user="Herb"][quote user="Oso Butch"]

Indeed, I''ve heard stuff about the Green and Foley departures (amongst others) that would make your hair curl...

[/quote]

Care to substantiate that, or are you just throwing around insinuations and rumours in the hope some of the sh*te will stick?
[/quote]

I would, willingly, but any indication of my sources would lose people their jobs. I can only assure that you that I am not in the habit of asserting such things without being confident about them. Sorry I cannot be more specific.    

[/quote]

I''ve said it before and I''ll say it again: if you had that much respect for this person, you wouldn''t ply them for information in the first place, nor would you then put it out as something you believe to be concrete.

I know someone who works within the club - not especially well, but know him nonetheless - but wouldn''t even think to ask him for inside information, lest he put his own job on the line.  And in the unlikely even that I did ask, I would hope his response would be two words, ending in ''off''.

At the end of the day, he''s in a position of trust, and I respect him enough to let him have his secrets.

Your "source" would also be best placed to shut up - if he''s that important, and his job is on the line, he should think about the consequences of blabbing to someone who then runs around saying "hey, guess what I heard..."
[/quote]

Don''t know where you work, fellah but, for most folk, there comes a time when what they see and hear at work is too much to keep to themselves. That''s the case here.

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[quote]Don''t know where you work, fellah but, for most folk, there comes a time when what they see and hear at work is too much to keep to themselves. That''s the case here.[/quote]

People fall out at work, it happens all the time, "office politics" means that divisions and alliances are made in all organisations, it''s part of the nature of human society.  Why should NCFC be any different ?  At the moment, we seem to have a united front on the pitch, surely that''s all that matters ?

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