Question For Worthy Fans

[nutty nigel 7,531]

[quote user="beelsie"]

Citizen Journalist Foghorn wrote:

beelsie wrote: Its a good start, but we are 3 points from 14th.  Lets hope it continues, playing like we are under Hunter''s methods we surely will.

Yeah, good one, Hunter signed Croft and its Hunter that has made the difference, we can sing his name and follow it with Worthy Out chants, that way we can live in the past and thre present at the same time, good thinking Mr. Cockerel Head!!  

What strange people you are, you sing Hunters name and follow it with Worthy out chants.  It was stated By Mr Hunter and Worthy, when he arrived that he, Worthy, was pleased to have Hunter on board and having known of his methods of old he would be a good addition to the staff.   Duly signed on and working.  Later on, Worthy and Hucks said how pleased they are with Hunters organisational skills and their efforts in improving team preparation, and that the early results are promising.

 Even so, you and others are still moving in the past, as if you are unhappy that Worthy has brought on board for NCFC someone who he can work with, and with the other staff, can get our first team playing in tune and singing from the same hymn sheet.

As a KTF I am very pleased that we now have a team who for the present are doing what they should have been doing for the last three seasons, this being the case; what on earth are you silly lot on about.  Is it that you are wanting our economy squad to be much better than they are at the moment, or is it that you enjoy bitching like old washer women. Try moving on I''m sure that you will find it more satisfactory for your overworked imagination.  I''m sure though you will be able to make up some story about Worthy that will fit in with your speculation,  I know I''ll call it your phobia. I do think it is treatable.

[/quote]

I thought I had it all worked out, I could give Hunter all the credit for the good things and still blame Worthy for everything that goes wrong!! That way I wouldn''t lose face and I could still be part of the success we are having at the moment! I could still have a hate figure!! Now you have spoilt it for me but I'', not gonna admit I''m wrong!! Worthy Out!!! [;)]

[chicken 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="beelsie"]

 certainly they must have made mistakes. 

[/quote]

errr Budget Beelsie - it does make a difference to expectations, we forked out 5.5 million in transfers (obviously some was from a sale, but how many champoionship teams don''t get their budget from sales)?? 

Its a good start, but we are 3 points from 14th.  Lets hope it continues, playing like we are under Hunter''s methods we surely will.

[/quote]I have to say that when you start looking at the signings you have to start questioning whether they are successes or failures and it becomes very grey for one or two of them.Hughes and Colin signed last summer - the others all came into the midst of a storm which did everything but let them settle. Five games in Robinson looks a steal at £50k! Etuhu is looking lively and Earnshaw is looking deadly.We ofcourse have expectations of the others who have yet to play and so remain unjudged yet this season. In some ways it only really points at the fact that some players simply take time to settle in and to get to grips with each other in a team and establish what their roles are.I think we will see yet more of Hunters effect on the club as I have a feeling he will help get those youngsters like the Jarvis brothers up to scratch - after all he has been doing it for some time for the England set up.I may be wrong but did we actually spend £5.5million last season?The only thing that upsets me is that no one has highlighted that Green was rumoured to be the top earner at the club - at least he was when he signed his new deal in the premiership season. Surely this now means we have money to pay for a contract extension for Huckerby - there is no way I want to get to January without someone giving that god of a player a new contract!!!! Otherwise we may as well have sold him too.

[Syteanric 1]

Would of liked ur thoughts (and those of other KTF''s as well) on my chase comments though Beelsie.

You made a very good structured arguement to my points and i enjoyed reading them however.

 Back to the chase situation though. Surely a KTFer who chanted Chase out is, Theoretically, no better than a Wo''er?

jas :)

[ca 1]

Good point Chicken the sooner we get Hucks signed up for another 2 years the happier lots of us will be.

Don''t think Green was the top earner thought , thought Hucks was??

 

Back to my original question

Cmon Ralphy, when are you going to start singing his name?

[beelsie 0]

Would of liked ur thoughts (and those of other KTF''s as well) on my chase comments though Beelsie.

You made a very good structured argument to my points and i enjoyed reading them however.

 Back to the chase situation though. Surely a KTFer who chanted Chase out is, Theoretically, no better than a Wo''er?

jas :)  Jas I have been about a long time( more than 80 years) and life experience has taught me a few things mainly that it is folly to judge a man or woman for failures in a storm however you define it. I have looked at Worthy on the touch line at matches, I have listened and read much that has been written about his methods and have in most cases branded it to be mostly unfounded. I see in him a man who has to ride out two battle fronts He is able to judge skill and the class of a player, him being quite a good defender on his day and a player well spoken of by his colleagues, he was at all times a 100%er and a very accurate passer of the ball both short and long, that being so he would expect the same from those who play for him. The hoof it language bandied about was exaggerated point scoring against a man who saw a lack of available men in their right positions to await a pass, therefore  to clear our lines made sense when we viewed the awful shape of the team and the lack of confidence shown by them. I at the time saw it as a lack of concentrated coaching and not poor management. That he has made mistakes I will agree.  The one front that he has to battle with is the actual lack of funds and the fact that his peers with the purse strings call the shots when it comes to investment in players of the calibre he would like to buy.  Though he has been blamed for the quality of some of those he has signed, I think some of us will admit to injuries being rather serious and causing it to be difficult for him to find room to manoeuvre with having small purse and a very lean back-up squad.  I think that you will agree that the late growing up of our youth players has been again poor coaching to me they just are not ready, and I have my doubts that they will be. I take Rooney as an example for my thoughts he has that youthful aggression that we expect of the young.  For me the efforts he has had to make have not been appreciated by many of the fans, and disappointment and Worthy''s ill chosen references to fans coupled with the lack of bite in his assessment of the play and players ( so as not to damage their pride too much) coupled with the age old statement that " We just have to play with what we have", has brought the moans from some and in my opinion are largely unjustified at that.  I believe he has carried himself with dignity in the situation and that is why I''m KTF. Jas! Regarding the question of Chase! even he had his golden moments IMHO some of our recent money has come available from land acquisitions made by him but he had two many irons in the fire and the Chase out situation was certain to arise.  From my reasoning the two situations are entirely different and the question you pose in my opinion does not arise, any way I am not of the ilk to demonstrate I personally find it demeans one, but I will assure you that I have made my feelings known to those in office at the relevant times during our very chequered history. Respects to you Jas! Beelsie

[TwoSheds 0]

WORTHY OUT WORTHY OUT WORTHY OUT!

[nutty nigel 7,531]

[quote user="TwoSheds"]WORTHY OUT WORTHY OUT WORTHY OUT![/quote]

 

Good old boy!!!! That makes about 5 of us now!!! Lets organise a march!

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="chicken"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="beelsie"]

 certainly they must have made mistakes. 

[/quote]

errr Budget Beelsie - it does make a difference to expectations, we forked out 5.5 million in transfers (obviously some was from a sale, but how many champoionship teams don''t get their budget from sales)?? 

Its a good start, but we are 3 points from 14th.  Lets hope it continues, playing like we are under Hunter''s methods we surely will.

[/quote]

I have to say that when you start looking at the signings you have to start questioning whether they are successes or failures and it becomes very grey for one or two of them.

Hughes and Colin signed last summer - the others all came into the midst of a storm which did everything but let them settle. Five games in Robinson looks a steal at £50k! Etuhu is looking lively and Earnshaw is looking deadly.

We ofcourse have expectations of the others who have yet to play and so remain unjudged yet this season. In some ways it only really points at the fact that some players simply take time to settle in and to get to grips with each other in a team and establish what their roles are.

I think we will see yet more of Hunters effect on the club as I have a feeling he will help get those youngsters like the Jarvis brothers up to scratch - after all he has been doing it for some time for the England set up.

I may be wrong but did we actually spend £5.5million last season?

The only thing that upsets me is that no one has highlighted that Green was rumoured to be the top earner at the club - at least he was when he signed his new deal in the premiership season. Surely this now means we have money to pay for a contract extension for Huckerby - there is no way I want to get to January without someone giving that god of a player a new contract!!!! Otherwise we may as well have sold him too.
[/quote]

rob earnshaw: 3 million rising to 3.5 million

Dickson Etuhu 450,000

Hughes and Colin and agents fees - 1 million

innumerable loans (Davenport, Marney, Lisbie,  Wright, JJ2, Rehman) Plus Frees Agents fees: Thorne, MLJ and Jarrett 1 million

Robinson 50K

 

Round about 5.5 million to me.

[chicken 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="chicken"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="beelsie"]

 certainly they must have made mistakes. 

[/quote]

errr Budget Beelsie - it does make a difference to expectations, we forked out 5.5 million in transfers (obviously some was from a sale, but how many champoionship teams don''t get their budget from sales)?? 

Its a good start, but we are 3 points from 14th.  Lets hope it continues, playing like we are under Hunter''s methods we surely will.

[/quote]I have to say that when you start looking at the signings you have to start questioning whether they are successes or failures and it becomes very grey for one or two of them.Hughes and Colin signed last summer - the others all came into the midst of a storm which did everything but let them settle. Five games in Robinson looks a steal at £50k! Etuhu is looking lively and Earnshaw is looking deadly.We ofcourse have expectations of the others who have yet to play and so remain unjudged yet this season. In some ways it only really points at the fact that some players simply take time to settle in and to get to grips with each other in a team and establish what their roles are.I think we will see yet more of Hunters effect on the club as I have a feeling he will help get those youngsters like the Jarvis brothers up to scratch - after all he has been doing it for some time for the England set up.I may be wrong but did we actually spend £5.5million last season?The only thing that upsets me is that no one has highlighted that Green was rumoured to be the top earner at the club - at least he was when he signed his new deal in the premiership season. Surely this now means we have money to pay for a contract extension for Huckerby - there is no way I want to get to January without someone giving that god of a player a new contract!!!! Otherwise we may as well have sold him too.[/quote]

rob earnshaw: 3 million rising to 3.5 million

Dickson Etuhu 450,000

Hughes and Colin and agents fees - 1 million

innumerable loans (Davenport, Marney, Lisbie,  Wright, JJ2, Rehman) Plus Frees Agents fees: Thorne, MLJ and Jarrett 1 million

Robinson 50K

 

Round about 5.5 million to me.

[/quote]Right but I think where you make the error is that that money was not all spent last summer. Etuhu, Robinson and Earnshaw were signed in January although the first two were signed on loan first.You can argue all you like that no one else had that much to spend but I would also argue that not as many teams lost as many first team players either I dont think there was much choice in that money being spent and for the most part it looks to have been worth it.We lost: Edworthy, Helveg, Holt, Jonson, Bently, Francis, Svensson, Mulryne then Ashton and Brenan in January. Thats ten players when we already had a  small squad to work with.Ok so we got Luis-John for  Holt which looked at the time to be a good deal which it would have been had it not been for his bad luck. And we brought in 7 players on a permanent basis as replacements. I think that works out as an average of about £600k a player.Now the problem is you can bang on about expectations being rightly high but if you take into account that Francis, Svensson, Ashton were expected to stay longer than they did and are certainly prem quality you have to be realistic that we are not going to find replacements to the easily especially when everybody knows how much money you have kicking around.This summer has been crazy - there is no way that we were ever going to be able to compete with the likes of Birmingham in the transfer market. £3 million for Jerome is over the odds in my book as is £4 million for McSheffery. With prices around like that its no wonder that other teams are asking silly money for their players. I even think that if you look at McKenzies injury reccord and goal scoring reccord we got more than he was worth for him.But then thats the difference between going up to the premiership and staying there for a couple of seasons and going up and coming straight back down.I think in a way what every happens it is better to wait untill January to spend more money should we need to. We will be more sure of the position the team is in then and as to whether we need a fresh injection ala Huckerby etc to give the squad a boost up a notch or two. It will also become more apparent what other teams will be doing as to whether other players become available.For example Halford has been priced out of our and other teams ranges right now but should Colchester be struggling come January he may issue a come and get me which may well force a drop in his value.Yes it is to early to tell whether we are just getting a little lucky at the moment but at the same time you dont sit in second without being good for it. There is certainly no luck involved this time.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

I see what you are saying, but compared to most other squads in the premiership last season we had loads of money to spend.  Watford spent round about 1.3 million I beleive (money gained by selling Helgusen). Fact is we still spent 5.5 million.  Player turnover happens on relegation.  A few players didnt have to leave but werent offered very good deals and some wanted out......

BTW barry fry has said at the moment they are not getting any of the 15% selling on fee.  so Mckenzie probably cost us over 325K when including the add-ons.  In fact what he says seems to indicate Either he cost over the 600K coventry have paid initially or that we are receiving the 600K from coventry in installments.

[chicken 0]

Right but you see you have almost added more weight to my argument.Watford lost Helgusen for £1.3 million. Thats one player. We spent £5.5 millions worth of money from 10 players leaving. I think you will find that proportionately we are worse off. Sure it may look like we had more money to spend but we had to spread it further due to the amount of players leaving.Now I am not saying that we were not better off than Watford were but what I am saying is that you can not simply suggest that because we had more money to spend over the course of last season than other teams we should have performed better.To add to this the point of the amount of money spent was meant to be in regards to the expectations at the beggining of the season. When you take that into account I think you will find that we had lost 8 players and brought in five permanently L-J for Holt, Jarrett - free, Thorne - free (promotion clause), Colin and Hughes - you say £1million. And Marney came in on loan which is likely to have cost us very little as he would not have been on much money and only lasted for a few games.So you say we spent £5.5 million but over half of that hadn''t been spent by the time the season had kicked off. Add to that that almost half went on one player and you start to see a truer picture.You see thats where some people feel that the protests were just too much and completely out of proportion. If were as simple as who had spent what then fine maybe we slightly guilty but you have to look at the overall picture not just focus in on one very one dimensional statistic.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="chicken"]Right but you see you have almost added more weight to my argument.

Watford lost Helgusen for £1.3 million. Thats one player. We spent £5.5 millions worth of money from 10 players leaving. I think you will find that proportionately we are worse off. Sure it may look like we had more money to spend but we had to spread it further due to the amount of players leaving.

Now I am not saying that we were not better off than Watford were but what I am saying is that you can not simply suggest that because we had more money to spend over the course of last season than other teams we should have performed better.

To add to this the point of the amount of money spent was meant to be in regards to the expectations at the beggining of the season. When you take that into account I think you will find that we had lost 8 players and brought in five permanently L-J for Holt, Jarrett - free, Thorne - free (promotion clause), Colin and Hughes - you say £1million. And Marney came in on loan which is likely to have cost us very little as he would not have been on much money and only lasted for a few games.

So you say we spent £5.5 million but over half of that hadn''t been spent by the time the season had kicked off. Add to that that almost half went on one player and you start to see a truer picture.

You see thats where some people feel that the protests were just too much and completely out of proportion. If were as simple as who had spent what then fine maybe we slightly guilty but you have to look at the overall picture not just focus in on one very one dimensional statistic.
[/quote]

well coventry didnt spend a penny last season - where did they end up?  Preston spent very little and had an injury crisis, anyway whats 3 players down???  we had a bigger squad for the premiership?  I hate to say it but we held all the aces but out management team wasnt up to the task.  As for one player that was the managers choice, or so I am led to beleive.

[chicken 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

[quote user="chicken"]Right but you see you have almost added more weight to my argument.Watford lost Helgusen for £1.3 million. Thats one player. We spent £5.5 millions worth of money from 10 players leaving. I think you will find that proportionately we are worse off. Sure it may look like we had more money to spend but we had to spread it further due to the amount of players leaving.Now I am not saying that we were not better off than Watford were but what I am saying is that you can not simply suggest that because we had more money to spend over the course of last season than other teams we should have performed better.To add to this the point of the amount of money spent was meant to be in regards to the expectations at the beggining of the season. When you take that into account I think you will find that we had lost 8 players and brought in five permanently L-J for Holt, Jarrett - free, Thorne - free (promotion clause), Colin and Hughes - you say £1million. And Marney came in on loan which is likely to have cost us very little as he would not have been on much money and only lasted for a few games.So you say we spent £5.5 million but over half of that hadn''t been spent by the time the season had kicked off. Add to that that almost half went on one player and you start to see a truer picture.You see thats where some people feel that the protests were just too much and completely out of proportion. If were as simple as who had spent what then fine maybe we slightly guilty but you have to look at the overall picture not just focus in on one very one dimensional statistic.[/quote]

well coventry didnt spend a penny last season - where did they end up?  Preston spent very little and had an injury crisis, anyway whats 3 players down???  we had a bigger squad for the premiership?  I hate to say it but we held all the aces but out management team wasnt up to the task.  As for one player that was the managers choice, or so I am led to beleive.

[/quote]Lets have a look:http://www.ex-canaries.co.uk/years/0506.htm2005/06 Team Information(s,E)1. ROBERT GREEN(s,E) 2. MATTHIEU LOUIS-JEAN(s,E) 3. ADAM DRURY(s,E) 4. JASON SHACKELL(s,E) 5. CRAIG FLEMING(s,E) 6. DARREN HUCKERBY(s,) 7. JASON JARRETT(s,E) 8. PETER THORNE9. 10. 11. JONATAN JOHANSSON(s,E)12. DARREN WARD(s,E) 14. LEON MCKENZIE(s,E) 15. YOUSSEF SAFRI(s,E) 16. SIMON CHARLTON(s,E) 17. ANDY HUGHES(s,E) 18. PAUL MCVEIGH19. ZESH REHMAN(E) 20. DICKSON ETUHU(s,E) 21. PAUL GALLACHER(s,E) 22. IAN HENDERSON(s,E) 23. RYAN JARVIS(s,E) 24. JURGEN COLIN(s,E) 25. ROSSI JARVIS(s,E) 27. GARY DOHERTY28. MICHAEL SPILLANE(s,E) 30 JOE LEWIS. 31. ANDREW CAVE-BROWN(E) 33. CARL ROBINSON

ARRIVALS at Carrow Road 2005/06

JURGEN COLIN from PSV (£263,000

- July 2005)

CALUM DAVENPORT from Tottenham

Hotspur (Loan - September 2005)

ROB EARNSHAW from West Brom (£3m

- January 2006) - E

DICKSON ETUHU from Preston North End

(Loan then £450,000 - November 2005/January 2006)

ANDY HUGHES from Reading (£500,000

- July 2005)

JASON JARRETT from Wigan Athletic

(Free - June 2005)

JONATAN JOHANSSON from Charlton

Athletic (Loan - January 2006)

KEVIN LISBIE from Charlton Athletic

(Loan - September 2005)

MATTHIEU LOUIS-JEAN from Nottingham

Forest (Exchange - June 2005)

DEAN MARNEY from Tottenham (Loan -

August 2005) - S

ZESH REHMAN from Fulham (Loan - January

2006)

CARL ROBINSON from Sunderland

(Loan then £50,000- November 2005/January 2006)

PETER THORNE from Cardiff City (Free

- July 2005)

DAVID WRIGHT from Wigan Athletic

(Loan - November 2005)

DEPARTURES 2005/06

DEAN ASHTON to West Ham United (£7.25million

- January 2006) - S

JIM BRENNAN to Southampton (Free

- January 2006) - S

DAMIEN FRANCIS to Wigan (£1.5million

- August 2005)

THOMAS HELVEG to Borrussia Monchengladbach

(£135,000 - July 2005)

SHANE HERBERT to Gillingham (Loan

- November 2005)

GARY HOLT to Nottingham Forest (Exchange

- June 2005)

JASON JARRETT to Plymouth (Loan -

December 2005)

MATTIAS JONSON to Djurgarden (£700,000

- July 2005)I have placed an s alonside the names of the players that were in the squad at the beggining of last season. I count 24 - that is players on professional contracts. By the end of the season, players marked E, we had three new arrivals with two leaving. So 25 players in total. Including four keepers (Green, Gallagher, Ward and Lewis). Not to mention that we lost Marney and Louis-Jean early on.So when you say we had a bigger squad I think you will find it is actually no smaller than the squad we have now and you begin to realise the effect of those ten or so players leaving, going back to their clubs. Note that for some reason the departures list does not include Svensson. Obviously it wont include Bently although I would suggest his return to Arsenal left a hole to be filled.Right now our squad contains 26 contracted players. Although you have to remember five of those were here last season just still a part of the youth team set up rather than on pro contracts and training with the first team squad.Its the one thing I have said time and time again - if there is a weakness in our team its the lack of experienced bodies. That means we have to get the young players up to scratch or the board has to release more funds for the squad. Its obvious that its not only transfer fees that are limited but also the wage bill.As for Green being the highest paid player - I am having trouble finding the report from the last contract extension he signed but I am sure that it said he was to be made the highest earner if not one of the highest earners at the club.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

every club gets injuries, some moan about them (tottenham)

You list a lot of loanees.

I meant we had a bigger squad in the premiership.

Who said Green was the highest paid player??  I would imagine it was Huckerby (or Ashton for a time)

Ashton and Francis (whom wanted to move to more ambitious clubs), Helveg (international reasons apart), and Bentley (thats what you get with year loans) having left , the rest worthy had some say over - so rightly or wrongly it was his choice.

Anyway we have been over this before, we arent going to agree.  I beleive he had a big enough budget last season, you dont.  I don''t get your point. The fact still is we spent 5.5 million in the championship last season.  That is a huge sum in this division and possibly the largest of any club that year - sheffield united may have run us close.  This season we have clubs coming down with bigger budgets lets hope we can compete and the managers involved spend the money poorly.

Did you know we now have 2 players in our current XI from the championship winning XI.  Drury and Huckerby! madness

[pitch fork 0]

I AGREE WITH CITY ANGEL WORTHY DESERVES PRAISE AT THE MOMENT EVERY THING  ELSE SAID ABOUT WORTHY AT THE MOMNET IS IRRELVANT WE ARE 2ND IN THE LEAGUE HE HAS KEPT TOGETHER A GOOD TEAM,

HE MUST BE DOING ALOT RIGHT I WILL SING HIS NAME

 

[sheded 0]

I did have a few goes at Nigel  last season   ,  but that doesn`t mean  my views  are unchangeable !     footballs a fluid  game , both on and off the field  ....    this season its become clear that Nigel  and Hunter   are to work as a management team    , and , so far , the result  is encouraging !  

[nutty nigel 7,531]

[quote user="pitch fork"]

I AGREE WITH CITY ANGEL WORTHY DESERVES PRAISE AT THE MOMENT EVERY THING  ELSE SAID ABOUT WORTHY AT THE MOMNET IS IRRELVANT WE ARE 2ND IN THE LEAGUE HE HAS KEPT TOGETHER A GOOD TEAM,

HE MUST BE DOING ALOT RIGHT I WILL SING HIS NAME

 

[/quote]

 

Me too!!!! City Angel???[;)]

[ca 1]

[quote user="pitch fork"]

I AGREE WITH CITY ANGEL WORTHY DESERVES PRAISE AT THE MOMENT EVERY THING  ELSE SAID ABOUT WORTHY AT THE MOMNET IS IRRELVANT WE ARE 2ND IN THE LEAGUE HE HAS KEPT TOGETHER A GOOD TEAM,

HE MUST BE DOING ALOT RIGHT I WILL SING HIS NAME

 

[/quote]

 

Pray where did I say that pitch fork??

[chicken 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

every club gets injuries, some moan about them (tottenham)

You list a lot of loanees.

I meant we had a bigger squad in the premiership.

Who said Green was the highest paid player??  I would imagine it was Huckerby (or Ashton for a time)

Ashton and Francis (whom wanted to move to more ambitious clubs), Helveg (international reasons apart), and Bentley (thats what you get with year loans) having left , the rest worthy had some say over - so rightly or wrongly it was his choice.

Anyway we have been over this before, we arent going to agree.  I beleive he had a big enough budget last season, you dont.  I don''t get your point. The fact still is we spent 5.5 million in the championship last season.  That is a huge sum in this division and possibly the largest of any club that year - sheffield united may have run us close.  This season we have clubs coming down with bigger budgets lets hope we can compete and the managers involved spend the money poorly.

Did you know we now have 2 players in our current XI from the championship winning XI.  Drury and Huckerby! madness

[/quote]Right maybe simplicity is the key. I shall attempt it.Put simply you can not simply base the argument to suggest how much we underachieved last season on how much money was spent.What I am suggesting is that the money needed to be spent and needed to be made available because we would have looked rediculous. It wasnt a spending spree because we could it was born out of the "NEED" for more players.You can compare it to Sheff Utd and all of the other teams as much as you like - but most of them will not have lost as many proven first team and quality players. Helveg, Jonson, Ashton, Francis, Svensson - two summers on and we are still to have found a good replacement for them. It says as much about the quality of the players as it does about the spending on the club. Not even Palace lost that many of their first choice line up.To have a really possitive effect on a team you need to loose a few bit part players and build with that £5.5 million. The problem is that we needed quantity as well as quality. When you take the £3million you have put to one side for Earnshaw out of your equation £2.5 million for Etuhu, Robinson, Hughes, Colin, Luis-Jean etc etc etc I would let him do it again even with hindsight.In short what was expected was not proportional to what had to be done with the money. If you can''t see the point in that then my guess is that you would not be any good at property development - not that far fetched a comparison!

[Middle of the Road 0]

[quote user="cityangel"]

No, not trying to open old wounds S.O.B. just getting fed up of last seasons protestors being called everything under the sun in virtually every post Ralph Wright has made these past 2 weeks.

I just wanted to know why he and others supports him on this message board but dont do it verbally at the footy.

I think we should all move on and enjoy the success we are experiencing at the moment whether we are Worthy fans or not, but he just wont let it be.

 

[/quote]

He won''t let it be? I''m not sure that this thread is an example of you letting it go either. Personally, I don''t particularly want to let it go. I had several Saturday afternoons ruined by so-called "fans" who campaigned against the club and fans that wanted to give the management more time to adjust to relegation.

Whether you did this at matches or not, I don''t know, but you were pretty active in encouraging it on this website.

[ca 1]

[quote user="Middle of the Road"][quote user="cityangel"]

No, not trying to open old wounds S.O.B. just getting fed up of last seasons protestors being called everything under the sun in virtually every post Ralph Wright has made these past 2 weeks.

I just wanted to know why he and others supports him on this message board but dont do it verbally at the footy.

I think we should all move on and enjoy the success we are experiencing at the moment whether we are Worthy fans or not, but he just wont let it be.

 

[/quote]

He won''t let it be? I''m not sure that this thread is an example of you letting it go either. Personally, I don''t particularly want to let it go. I had several Saturday afternoons ruined by so-called "fans" who campaigned against the club and fans that wanted to give the management more time to adjust to relegation.

Whether you did this at matches or not, I don''t know, but you were pretty active in encouraging it on this website.

[/quote]

 

So how did the protesters ruin your Saturday afternoons then MOTR, they were outside the ground from 2pm - 2.30pm and there were only about 3 as far as I know. You didn''t have to stand and watch them!!

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="chicken"]

Right maybe simplicity is the key. I shall attempt it.

Put simply you can not simply base the argument to suggest how much we underachieved last season on how much money was spent.

What I am suggesting is that the money needed to be spent and needed to be made available because we would have looked rediculous. It wasnt a spending spree because we could it was born out of the "NEED" for more players.

You can compare it to Sheff Utd and all of the other teams as much as you like - but most of them will not have lost as many proven first team and quality players. Helveg, Jonson, Ashton, Francis, Svensson - two summers on and we are still to have found a good replacement for them. It says as much about the quality of the players as it does about the spending on the club. Not even Palace lost that many of their first choice line up.

To have a really possitive effect on a team you need to loose a few bit part players and build with that £5.5 million. The problem is that we needed quantity as well as quality. When you take the £3million you have put to one side for Earnshaw out of your equation £2.5 million for Etuhu, Robinson, Hughes, Colin, Luis-Jean etc etc etc I would let him do it again even with hindsight.

In short what was expected was not proportional to what had to be done with the money. If you can''t see the point in that then my guess is that you would not be any good at property development - not that far fetched a comparison!
[/quote]

As I said we aren''t going to agree mate.  Gonna have to let this one lie.

OTBC

[Carrow89 0]

" ... last seasons protestors being called everything under the sun in virtually every post Ralph Wright has made these past 2 weeks.I just wanted to know why he and others supports him on this message board but dont do it verbally at the footy."

As this post was directed at me then perhaps I should reply. I might ask why you bleat about constant references to last season when you are starting threads such as this ?

Or how long will it be before it actually sinks into your head how badly wrong you and others got things last season ?

Wrong in the way you did AND STILL DO refer to those who don''t have some kind of pathological hatred of Nigel Worthington as Worthy lovers or Worthy supporters.

Wrong in how you attacked and derided those who remained as supporters of the club.

Wrong in the way that you also portrayed those who chose not to parade around with childish cardboard placards as KTF or many other offensive tags that derided their neutral stance.

Wrong in trying to drive a wedge between fans by proclaiming a ''if you''re not with us your agin us" attitude.

You have no idea what people''s thoughts were last season or this season yet you have took upon yourself yet again to interpret their silence in a way that suits your position in matters.

And finally if you are getting ''fed up'' with the odd post from me refering to you lot in less than glowing terms them try to imagine what the club officials, players and the genuine supporters had to put up with last season with being on the end of a constant barrage of personal abuse and insults.

[nutty nigel 7,531]

[quote user="Middle of the Road"][quote user="cityangel"]

No, not trying to open old wounds S.O.B. just getting fed up of last seasons protestors being called everything under the sun in virtually every post Ralph Wright has made these past 2 weeks.

I just wanted to know why he and others supports him on this message board but dont do it verbally at the footy.

I think we should all move on and enjoy the success we are experiencing at the moment whether we are Worthy fans or not, but he just wont let it be.

 

[/quote]

He won''t let it be? I''m not sure that this thread is an example of you letting it go either. Personally, I don''t particularly want to let it go. I had several Saturday afternoons ruined by so-called "fans" who campaigned against the club and fans that wanted to give the management more time to adjust to relegation.

Whether you did this at matches or not, I don''t know, but you were pretty active in encouraging it on this website.

[/quote]

It certainly wasn''t the pre-match protests that ruined my saturday afternoons, they were quite funny actually, so were the post-match protests! Did you know some people didnt go to the games but turned up for the protests?? However, the poisonous atmosphere INSIDE the ground for the last few home games did ruin my saturday afternoons! Now I know I been on here for the last few days on a bit of a wind up, but even that doesn''t work cuz some of the posters on here are still so "last season"! To put the record straight I was never part of any protest but I did have a few arguments inside the ground with those that were. If the protests had remained outside the ground before and after matches then those of us who disagreed would have had no reason to become involved. In my opinion it was the protesting inside the ground during matches which has caused the bad feelings between fans.

[nutty nigel 7,531]

[quote user="Ralph Wright"]" ... last seasons protestors being called everything under the sun in virtually every post Ralph Wright has made these past 2 weeks.I just wanted to know why he and others supports him on this message board but dont do it verbally at the footy." As this post was directed at me then perhaps I should reply. I might ask why you bleat about constant references to last season when you are starting threads such as this ? Or how long will it be before it actually sinks into your head how badly wrong you and others got things last season ? Wrong in the way you did AND STILL DO refer to those who don''t have some kind of pathological hatred of Nigel Worthington as Worthy lovers or Worthy supporters. Wrong in how you attacked and derided those who remained as supporters of the club. Wrong in the way that you also portrayed those who chose not to parade around with childish cardboard placards as KTF or many other offensive tags that derided their neutral stance. Wrong in trying to drive a wedge between fans by proclaiming a ''if you''re not with us your agin us" attitude. You have no idea what people''s thoughts were last season or this season yet you have took upon yourself yet again to interpret their silence in a way that suits your position in matters. And finally if you are getting ''fed up'' with the odd post from me refering to you lot in less than glowing terms them try to imagine what the club officials, players and the genuine supporters had to put up with last season with being on the end of a constant barrage of personal abuse and insults.[/quote]

 

This post really highlights the extremes between the diehards of the two factions carried over from last season. So, I was wondering, what would it take for the diehard worthy supporters to chant "worthy out", and what would it take for the diehard worthy sackers to chant "worthingtons green & yellow army"?

[ca 1]

[quote user="cityangel"][quote user="Middle of the Road"][quote user="cityangel"]

No, not trying to open old wounds S.O.B. just getting fed up of last seasons protestors being called everything under the sun in virtually every post Ralph Wright has made these past 2 weeks.

I just wanted to know why he and others supports him on this message board but dont do it verbally at the footy.

I think we should all move on and enjoy the success we are experiencing at the moment whether we are Worthy fans or not, but he just wont let it be.

 

[/quote]

He won''t let it be? I''m not sure that this thread is an example of you letting it go either. Personally, I don''t particularly want to let it go. I had several Saturday afternoons ruined by so-called "fans" who campaigned against the club and fans that wanted to give the management more time to adjust to relegation.

Whether you did this at matches or not, I don''t know, but you were pretty active in encouraging it on this website.

[/quote]

 

So how did the protesters ruin your Saturday afternoons then MOTR, they were outside the ground from 2pm - 2.30pm and there were only about 3 as far as I know. You didn''t have to stand and watch them!!

[/quote]

 

I did mean 3 protests of course, not 3 protestors [:D]

[chicken 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

As I said we aren''t going to agree mate.  Gonna have to let this one lie.

OTBC

[/quote]Fair enough although I have to its straight forward enough. It simply down to whether you feel loosing as many valuable players as you bring in has an effect on the squad thats all. If you don''t believe that it does then its just a little surprising if you ask me.

[Getting off the fence 0]

There were more than 3 protesters - at least twice that many. The point was that you contributed to a soured atmosphere at matches in what was a very difficult season - instead of being supportive, you were destructive, "upped the hysteria" and made a difficulty into a crisis.

What is more, you tried to do more damage than you actually achieved. Your inept petition for example, which was larely ignored by fans and relied upon multiple signatures to get most of your support.

[Carrow89 0]

" diehard worthy supporters "

Sorry cherub but that is the whole point of the grievance.

One set of fans turned on the club, Anyone NOT joining them were automatically labelled as pro Worthy - as you are doing. That is illogical and false.

Just because I''m not in favour of beheading drink drivers does not mean I''m pro drink driving.

[Dicky 0]

[quote user="Getting off the fence"]

There were more than 3 protesters - at least twice that many. The point was that you contributed to a soured atmosphere at matches in what was a very difficult season - instead of being supportive, you were destructive, "upped the hysteria" and made a difficulty into a crisis.

What is more, you tried to do more damage than you actually achieved. Your inept petition for example, which was larely ignored by fans and relied upon multiple signatures to get most of your support.

[/quote]

Well said GOTF.  Last season is one where supporters should have been supportive (strange that!) and many weren''t.  Luckily rent a mob were pretty short on numbers for the embarassing protest (who can forget the sight of the middle aged chap leading a group of kids in the protest with a few embarassed looking adults following behind?).

Anyway, let''s let the past be the past and get behind our team, starting with our first away win on Saturday at Coventry - hopefully see you there.