The KTF'ers and the moving goalposts........

[The Fish Seller 0]

So two games into the season and the board is swamped with smug "I told you so posts" from the diehard KTF''ers laying the credit for our huge improvement in form firmly at Nigels feet. Suggest Hunter is responsible and you''ll be told it''s Worthy who brought him here,  suggest the presence of a right winger is responsible again Worthy is praised for having the presence to bring someone with the obvious abilities of the boy Croft to the club. Suggest the hoofball is a thing of the past again it''s all down to worthy as are the tactics, formation, squad selections etc. etc. and anyone who disagrees is a reprehensible faux fan probably a binner etc etc etc.........

 

So if the performance is down to Nigel and that''s what they''re telling me on about half the postings here since Saturday...........

Why did you blame last years 30+ below average at best and dire on occasion performances on everyone but Nigel?

If he is responsible for the performance and the result fine. Give him credit for this years two but you must also accede that last year was poor and therefore the WO''ers were quite correct to raise concerns over his abilities so maybe just maybe you should think twice about posting endless snidy putdowns against those passionate enough to take a stand.

If he''s not responsible then fine he''s not to blame for last years antics but then again don''t praise him for the good football you''ve seen this year, maybe later in season who knows?

So Blah Blah, Chicken, Brother Ralph etc. Is he or is he not responsible for the way the team plays? A straight yes or no would be fine but you can''t have yes when it suits you and no when that suits, that''s called "moving the goalposts".......

 

 

 

[Herb 0]

[quote user="Ralph Wrong"]

So two games into the season and the board

is swamped with smug "I told you so posts" from the diehard KTF''ers

laying the credit for our huge improvement in form firmly at Nigels

feet.

[/quote]

What a lot of nonsense!

No one has done any such thing.

[Mook 0]

Of course he''s responsible.

I think the only thing that has been defended about Worthington are the ridiculous insults, references to his nationality, being a clown, "offending" the fans.

You can''t argue with the performances, and we were POOR last season. But some of that - only some - is down to the atmosphere, and circumstances beyond Nigel''s control. For example, look at Etuhu now he''s confident! That''s nothing to do with Nigel, it''s personal issues.

The "KTF" are not saying "see, I told you he was brilliant".

It''s merely "credit where credit''s due". If he was responsible for the team last year, then he''s just as responsible this year. If he had to go because Foley/Webb was dreadful, then he has to stay because Hunter is the saviour.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

The goalposts are still the same

Promotion - A Success

Top 6 - Passable, but considering the funds spent a Failure

Mid table  - Disastrous Failure

Relegation - Sack the Board

[pete 0]

I don''t think that you''ve understood what the people who didn''t want to get rid of the manager were saying, mostly they wanted him to stay because getting rid of him wasn''t in their opinions in the best interest of the club. Most of them recognised that the football last season wasn''t good but a change of manager wasn''t the solution.

The WO''s state that ''for the good of the club'' (quote is from their website) that the manager has to leave, this along with most of the other claims against the manager are proving to be false.

Stop trying to perpetuate this division amongst the supporters and be glad that things are looking up.

 

 

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote user="Ralph Wrong"]

So Blah Blah, Chicken, Brother Ralph etc. Is he or is he not responsible for the way the team plays? A straight yes or no would be fine but you can''t have yes when it suits you and no when that suits, that''s called "moving the goalposts".......

[/quote]

Just being devils advocate here but does that not work both ways?  You are claiming that the "KTF" think that last season was not down to him but the good performances are.  However the "WO" appear to be saying that last season was down him and the good performances are not.

Lets be honest it''s neither of those.

[Gamera 0]

 "Keep the faith" as in he''ll turn the club back to what he used to have it like, a success. I don''t think many were saying he wasn''t to blame for last season, If it''s a told you so then it''s for saying keep the faith isn''t it, I mean it''s in their name, surely you noticed that.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,017]

So much for unity amongst the fans....

[The Fish Seller 0]

[quote user="Herb"][quote user="Ralph Wrong"]

So two games into the season and the board is swamped with smug "I told you so posts" from the diehard KTF''ers laying the credit for our huge improvement in form firmly at Nigels feet.

[/quote]

What a lot of nonsense!
No one has done any such thing.

[/quote]

 

Care to substantiate the putdown Herb, sure I could find more than a few examples without digging back any further than two pages on this forum.

 

And Mook I hear you and believe it or not we agree. That''s why I take exception to being insulted by some as anti club, told we''re not welcome, slinking back under my stone etc. The fact is NW was responsible to some degree for last years poor showing it''s undeniable so how can there possibly be anything wrong in a percentage of people highlighting the fact at the time?

I firmly believe that last year we were right to hold Nigel responsible for many (not all by any means) the failures, this year I''m giving him time to make amends and have refrained from posting anything negative about him or the club unless I feel they''re justified and that won''t be at the first dip in form believe me, I''m a bit too mature for that.

I don''t come here because I''ve a screen on my desk at work and nothing better to do, I come here because it''s IMO the best place to stay in touch with what''s happening at the club from a distance, unfortunately the topic matters are still too concerned with Worthy to be that much use for those purposes, I''m hoping things move forwards and the silly tagging and sweeping insults and accusations stop and all we have to argue about is whether McVeigh should start instead of ********.

[Chip20 69]

Agreed. I''d say I fall more on the KTF side, because I''ve never advocated booting Worthy out, but I cringe when reading so many posts already raising their mid fingers at those that did based on two good performances. There''s still time for everything to go horribly wrong again and it''s a bad idea to be too smug too soon. My own personal opinion in that NW has made some mistakes in recent times, but I don''t believe the performance of a team (good or otherwise) can ever be attributed 100% to one factor. When things go well it can''t all be down to the manager and, likewise, when things go badly it can''t all be the manager''s fault. I''m sure it''s entirely possible that Martin Hunter has had a positive influence, but there are lilely to be other factors contributing to our two decent performances so far.

Can''t we all just agree that it''s nice to have seen a satisfying and enjoyable performance from our team for a change and stop the bickering and the name-calling and the constant crowing whenever the pendulum swings the other way?

[USAcanary 0]

[quote user="Mook"]

Of course he''s responsible.

I think the only thing that has been defended about Worthington are the ridiculous insults, references to his nationality, being a clown, "offending" the fans.

You can''t argue with the performances, and we were POOR last season. But some of that - only some - is down to the atmosphere, and circumstances beyond Nigel''s control. For example, look at Etuhu now he''s confident! That''s nothing to do with Nigel, it''s personal issues.

The "KTF" are not saying "see, I told you he was brilliant".

It''s merely "credit where credit''s due". If he was responsible for the team last year, then he''s just as responsible this year. If he had to go because Foley/Webb was dreadful, then he has to stay because Hunter is the saviour.

[/quote]

If we were so POOR last year then why shouldnt the fans complain.?

Most KTF argue that we should not complain or protest.

Maybe without those we would not have a new coach and a new style of play.

 

 

[Marty 0]

I am getting bored with people moaning about the manager, now these players are the same ones (apart from Croft) who failed to live up to our expectations last year, yes the same players! Now Tactics are one thing, implementing them is another. Why is it always the fault of the manager? Now if we do OK it will be down to all possible circumstances other than our manager of course. Stop moaning and just support the blo*dy team.

[Carrow89 0]

More nonsense from those that dislike our club. Nobody said you did not have the right to criticise on field performances or any aspect of the club''s performance. But it wasn''t that. It was personal attack, fabrications some pretty nasty slurs.

Anyone trying to counter these smears were given labelled ''keep the faith'' irrespective of their own take on matters. Just because those wanting rid of Worthington and the board were united in their hatred so we were supposedly united in our love for them.

Nothing could have been further from the truth. No supporter was happy with last seasons'' efforts. It was just some of us recognised that there was more that was right with the club than ever there was wrong with the club. Calling for knee jerk dismissals was not the answer and only reflected the petulance of those involved rather than being any serious answer.

As to the present it is not those that stuck with the club that are crowing, they are merely pointing out the glaring hypocricy of those who were wanting Worthington and the board out as the only option, now back pedalling at an alarming rate.

So if Worthington was incompetent and the board corrupt then lets see them getting out their homemade placards and saying the same as they did a few months back. After all it''s the same manager, the same board and the same Delia that you so despised before.

Or has a bit of success (however modest) made you climb back on the populist bandwagon once again

Supporters my a*** !

[chicken 0]

[quote user="Saint Canary"][quote user="Ralph Wrong"]

So Blah Blah, Chicken, Brother Ralph etc. Is he or is he not responsible for the way the team plays? A straight yes or no would be fine but you can''t have yes when it suits you and no when that suits, that''s called "moving the goalposts".......

[/quote]

Just being devils advocate here but does that not work both ways?  You are claiming that the "KTF" think that last season was not down to him but the good performances are.  However the "WO" appear to be saying that last season was down him and the good performances are not.

Lets be honest it''s neither of those.

[/quote]

Saint - if it wasnt for people like you and Trent (what has happened to him?) I would have given up coming on here quite a long time ago. You are indeed right.

To be honest the my take on it all is that we got off to a bad start last season with high expectancy levels which led to crowd unrest. This in turn led to more pressure on the team who were never really allowed to settle.

Worthington tried changing players, formations etc. At the time people were saying that he should try and play a more consistant team, when he did that people moaned about the players who were not performing in it.

As a result Worthington was blamed for ALL that went wrong last season. And as you say this season he isnt given any credit.

What some people are missing out on is how honest the guy can be - he held his hands up to his share of the blame last season but added some blame has to lie with the players also and they should stand up and be counted too.

This season - two games in, he has given a lot of credit to his new coach. Don''t you think if he was as spiteful as some people have tried to make him out to be he would have just come out and said - "I hope I have proved all my doubters wrong now I have turned things around."

Instead he congratulates a colleague for his help and effort in improving the team. Somebody on here said that Worthington is like a captain of a ship. If that analogy is true then last season it was as much the crew tying the nots incorrectly as it was the captain miss-reading the compass. A new first mate may well have made a hell of a difference! (enough of that I am completely confusing myself!).

[Herb 0]

[quote user="Ralph Wrong"]

Care to substantiate the putdown Herb, sure I could find more than a few examples without digging back any further than two pages on this forum.

[/quote]Well when people like yourself stop posting nonsense with such metronomic regularity put downs won''t be needed.What do you mean substantiate, its bleeding obvious. I doubt even Worthington''s staunchest defenders would absolve him of blame for last seasons poor performances, and I haven''t seen anyone saying our much improved looking performances so far this season are all down to him either.Most of the "told you so" sort of stuff has been directed towards the short-sighted ones who''d written off certain players we signed last season within a couple of games.

[sussexcanary 0]

Certain people (and that probably includes myself !!!) on this fine measuring tool of opinion need to take a step backwards and take stock. We are two games into the season and whilst things are looking encouraging its impossible to predict how the season is going to pan out.  Lets see where we are after 10 games before any further judgements are cast.

I would just like to say that i respect most of the pro Worthy posters on this board (even though i massively disagree with them) but Ralph, dear Ralph your posts make me heave !! you are so blo*dy arrogant and dismissive.  Why? 

[yellow hammer 0]

It goes to show that it really does take time for players to settle in to a team. Having won promotion, the team was carved up (throwing out Malky and Iwan was a huge mistake) and then getting relegated the same thing happened (This time some the players jumped ship).

The team that started last season was two or three members the same as the team that began our promotion season.

IMO the lack of funds has been something of a backhanded blessing because there''s been no summer chopping and changing, players are bedded in, know what''s expected of them, understand what their team mates can or cannot do.

The Ipswich home game showed what a team playing regularly can do (it also showed that a bunch of kids cannot sustain that kind of performance over a season).

So now we have consistency, a settled team and the fans getting behind the players once more. It''s a solid base from which to build on. Not the finished article but moving in the right direction.

Cheers

Yellow Hammer

[Kent Canary 0]

[quote user="chicken"]

Saint - if it wasnt for people like you and Trent (what has happened to him?) I would have given up coming on here quite a long time ago. You are indeed right.

To be honest the my take on it all is that we got off to a bad start last season with high expectancy levels which led to crowd unrest. This in turn led to more pressure on the team who were never really allowed to settle.

Worthington tried changing players, formations etc. At the time people were saying that he should try and play a more consistant team, when he did that people moaned about the players who were not performing in it.

As a result Worthington was blamed for ALL that went wrong last season. And as you say this season he isnt given any credit.

What some people are missing out on is how honest the guy can be - he held his hands up to his share of the blame last season but added some blame has to lie with the players also and they should stand up and be counted too.

This season - two games in, he has given a lot of credit to his new coach. Don''t you think if he was as spiteful as some people have tried to make him out to be he would have just come out and said - "I hope I have proved all my doubters wrong now I have turned things around."

Instead he congratulates a colleague for his help and effort in improving the team. Somebody on here said that Worthington is like a captain of a ship. If that analogy is true then last season it was as much the crew tying the nots incorrectly as it was the captain miss-reading the compass. A new first mate may well have made a hell of a difference! (enough of that I am completely confusing myself!).

[/quote]

Thats a great summary, top post.

[beelsie 0]

Good piece Kent, and your''e not confused.