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Is vitriol ruining this message board ?

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I have read a number of posts on this board suggesting that it isn''t as good as it used to be, the main reason for this seems to be the sheer weight of vitriol and offensive posting against the club manager, Nigel Worthington.  Never a day seems to pass without a new thread finding another way of being negative about the manager and the club.

As a relative newcomer I would like to know, are people being put off from sharing their viewpoints on the basis that they expect a slanging match about Worthington if they do so ?  Was it always like this ?

If it is the case that people are being put off, then it''s a shame. Negative posts in here will not remove the manager.

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Exactly - look at the Leeds Away posting to see yet another attack from Citizen - backs up your point superbly.

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No I''m not put off by people expressing their opinion... What I don''t like about this mb is having to wait so long for posts to be released by the the moderation team...

Would be good if it was like the old BBC 606 site when you got an email to inform you that somebody has replied to your post

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No. This post itself could be construed to be part of the problem as it suggests it is only the negative posts that are driving people away. If you are saying that only positive views can be posted we may as well get rid of this board, or rename it the "Chicken/ blahblahblah/Herb Love In Board".

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[quote user="Sons of Boadicea"]

No. This post itself could be construed to be part of the problem as it suggests it is only the negative posts that are driving people away. If you are saying that only positive views can be posted we may as well get rid of this board, or rename it the "Chicken/ blahblahblah/Herb Love In Board".

[/quote]

I''m in total agreement Sons Of B.  It do make me larf!

I can envisage them in a group hug - and self congratulary back slappin'' amongst those whom are holier than thou.

I want Nigel out........So therefore, I must be mentally retarded, a dimwit, a closet binner or an untrue fan....allegedly.

It''s all about opinions........and one doesn''t have to react or respond if one wishes not to.......Amen. Now where''s my prayer book and cassock......[8-|]

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[quote user="Sons of Boadicea"]

No. This post itself could be construed to be part of the problem as it suggests it is only the negative posts that are driving people away. If you are saying that only positive views can be posted we may as well get rid of this board, or rename it the "Chicken/ blahblahblah/Herb Love In Board".

[/quote]

Think the point that is being made is that no one is bothered about negative posts. Everyone posts negatively from time to time. But today I saw a post saying we should hire a sniper for Worthy, a few days ago there was a thread talking about building a statue of Worthy so dogs could do their business on it! Those sorts of posts are what annoy people.

And of course the KTF/WO rubbish, which seems to be dying down thankfully.

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Well said Sons of B. Trent himself, lacking humility on this occasion, references a link to another thread that highlights where "the problem lies" with posters of a given persuasion. On the linked thread that Trent references he himself posted at least nine times. Hardly an objective link. 

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[quote user="Sons of Boadicea"]

No. This post itself could be construed to be part of the problem as it suggests it is only the negative posts that are driving people away. If you are saying that only positive views can be posted we may as well get rid of this board, or rename it the "Chicken/ blahblahblah/Herb Love In Board".

[/quote]

I''m in total agreement Sons Of B.  It do make me larf!

I can envisage them in a group hug - and self congratulary back slappin'' amongst those whom are holier than thou.

I want Nigel out........So therefore, I must be mentally retarded, a dimwit, a closet binner or an untrue fan....allegedly.

It''s all about opinions........and one doesn''t have to react or respond if one wishes not to.......Amen. Now where''s my prayer book and cassock......[8-|]

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what does KTF mean?

i''m not used to all these message board abbreviations, find them a bit annoying to be honest

LOL

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Is vitriol ruining this message board? Yes, to some extent. I think the main thing is for everybody to be polite to one another and try not to be offensive whilst engaging in debate in this forum. I try to post as though I am talking to people face to face in a pub, cafe or some other public meeting place. If you were to use the kind of hostile, provocative language some people do on here whilst talking to someone directly you would run the risk of starting a fight. Not a good idea unless you like that sort of thing. Personally, I don''t.

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Trent - If people are really not bothered why do they respond ?. I do not agree with a lot of the negative stuff that is posted, but I would not want to stifle discussion. I agree we get a lot of the "same old same old" but I find just ignoring it works for me. 

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YC - Yep, because its something I obviously feel quite strongly about. And from what I remember most of the respondees were in agreement, if it was just me on one side and everyone on the other I would hardly have bothered bringing it up again!

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[quote] I do not agree with a lot of the negative stuff that is posted, but I would not want to stifle discussion.[/quote]

I don''t want to stifle discussion either, but when every thread becomes about Worthington up to and including England matches, where is the scope for discussion ?  It all comes down to a single issue, and that is wrong.

And it''s constant too.  Every day there will be 2 or 3 threads about whether this or that is a sign of something wrong.  Today we have the fixture list "leeds away, oh well forget this season then", and the bid for Rob Hulse, where the people who were complaining about the lack of transfer activity are now complaining that we''re paying too much.  What will it be tomorrow ?

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My main concern about the almost total concentration, not to say obsession with the Worthy Out campaign was that it ignored the  root of the problem.  Let''s hope that now the myth of "prudence with ambition" has been exposed, we as fans will be a bit more streetwise this season.

My other concern was the hate aspect.  How on earth did that happen?  People like to call it passion, which is this year''s marketing buzzword.  Well yes, hatred is a form of passion if you want to look at it like that.  But it''s a useless way of bringing about change.

I understand how tempting it is to leave the obsessives muttering in the corner while you go and get a life, but for good or ill message boards like this look like the future of football campaigning and protest.  It''s extremely important that all points of view can be heard.  Don''t let them bully you.

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Well I''m completely fed up of reading things like:

"XXXX have signed XXXX for £1m. Get rid of the Irish Clown before it''s too late!!"

Why not just discuss the player in question, and whether he would suit our squad, budget and style of play? Why does it have to be about Nigel, or even worse, his nationality?

Why is there a post based soley on fiction - ie we''re not looking at players until August - and then a bunch of witch-hunters jump on it and turn it into a discussion about Nigel''s ineptitude?

It''s horrible to read and worst of all, BORING.

And it IS vitriol. However the intelligensia wish to describe their own posts is entirely up to them, but the sort of thing I am highlighting is pure unadulterated and, in a lot of cases unsubstantiated, hatred / nastiness / vitriol.

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blahblahblah - I understand that you do not wish to stifle discussion, but I have to say vitriol is not the sole domain of those who post in the negative. I am worried about our lack of activity in the transfer market, and I am also worried about the money we are prepared to pay for Hulse IF the story is true, I do not see the two worries as being mutually exclusive.

I am looking forward to next season, and despite our poor season last season I am prepared to give the Board/NW the benefit of the doubt, but I truly believe that we need to improve the quality of the squad in readiness for pre-season training and pre season friendlys and learn from our mistakes of buying ordinary players and bringing in loanees to late to gel.

Passions are running high because everybody knows next season is pivotal to the future of Norwich City FC, another poor season with no promotion, and the parachute payments drying up could consign us to a future of Championship survival, playing in front of low attendances (how far will the patience of the best supports in the world stretch ?), wise acquisitions and a good season could see us back in the Prem......I know which one I want!!

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My perspective:

When i first started posting, new threads usually contained a good question that when relatively in depth and required a little bit of thought. As the season turned into a farce, posts often followed and in-fighting started. The in-fighting I guess is just an off-shot of the current situation and highlights why many fans are so fed up.

When the worthyout group started i got hammered for saying that i felt that some of their leaders / members were patrolling the boards to argue against anything that they didnt like to put their view across. I felt that they needed to keep their bandwagon moving and posters started using all sorts of historic facts to argue their case. Please note that i am saying that this may have been a coincidence and not an act of that group.IMHO this was the point that people started disagreeing becasue of the name of the person that wrote it, not necessarily what they said. Things got personal and new threads that were similiar to the old ones were ignored. Many new names became used and new posters were ten a penny. It became like a street with every house having a new occupant.Again, i do not want to be nasty and I''m not directing this to anyone in particular, but it was as if the board became a bit childish. Good threads were being ignored as the board continued to argue and get personal over the NW situation. 1st Wiz is a great member of the board becasue he will hold views that very few will agree with, but he can have a joke too - and in the depths of his argument you can see how he has deduced such far flung thoughts and he would justify himself. Great credit to him also for privately acknowledging via email many different threads for their content etc.Now it''s almost like a clash of people that cannot accept someone elses point of view. The strange thing is that the board get knocked for retaining NW (how can they be so stupid, cant they see, cant they hear what the fans think) when they are operating under the same blinker system.

I vaguely remember Kathy from NCISA posting something and she got lots of abuse for daring to voice her opinion. At this point, some sensible posters left the board and dabble a little now and then. I am one of those.

If i could use one word to describe the change that happened over a period of time, it would be the sudden loss of respect.

I recently wrote something that i cannot remember after a period of non-activity and people commented on the empathy that i showed. In fact i hadnt wriiten anything different, but my emapthy stood out amongst the big brother bitchiness that the board had come used too.

I''m not trying to appear whiter than white, because I too started to get a bit hot under the collar, but what wound me up is even more obvious on the board now - pathetic comments that are not thought out, have no relevance, extremists who cant fathom out that others are allowed a different opinion.Too many people started to live their lives around this board.

I think the moderators do a wonderful job, but the number of multiple posts has become a massive issue on this board, and helps to highlight the short sightedness of the users that I write about above.

I''m not trying to hold court here, and i''m sure that i have offended people with some of what i have put, but it is vital to remember that the board is what we all make of it. With that in mind, we can all have a part to play in getting the board away from personal attacks and back to the thoughtful posting that was once so good on this board

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Thanks Mook, good post.  I wanted to see if i was the only one in here who thought this was a problem, now I realise I''m not.

The worst threads in my opinion tend to follow this pattern :

Post 1 - fictional account of what is going on is posted by someone with no inside knowledge, just a grudge against the club / manager.  This can be an interpretation of an "absence of activity", a twisting of words from an interview or news conference, or a likening of an unrelated event to the situation at NCFC.

Posts 2 - 10 - people jump on the bandwagon exclaiming their dismay from the rafters.  Nobody stops to question whether the first post has any veracity.  Personal comments are passed on the person / people / organisation that the "news" was about.  Words like clown, disgrace, dismay are used frequently, things are laughable, and incredible, and defy belief, the posters are going out the back to top themselves at the "news".

Post 11 - Information becomes available proving that post 1 was in fact total nonsense.

Post 12 - 20 - the same people in posts 1 - 10 use this new information as a new way of saying something negative, never actually acknowledging that what they said previously was total bunkum.

My problem is not with people being negative, if what they say is based upon fact, and backed up with decent reasoning.

My problem is with people who as mook pointed out, conjure up any old rubbish, claim it as fact, and then use it as "proof" that highly qualified and experienced people "don''t know what they are doing".

I strongly suggest that people seek out the film Monty Pythons'' Life of Brian, especially the scene where Brian leaves his sandal behind as a "sign"...

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After talking to many ex Pink Un posters on other sites, I''ll tell you what the problems are:

1. Insults and rude replies from fellow posters to posters, one even refers to me as ''Lizard'' every time, and its allowed by the moderators!.

2. Speed of moderating, especially at weekends.

3. General bad manners and aggressive replies and arguements.

Whether or not you accept this, matters not, just look how many posters are on line right now......one, thats how many!.

I myself  have dropped right back from posting  on here for the very reasons already mentioned, although I realise some posters on here will cheer at that news, and thats my point!.

There are many message boards for city fans now, boards where you are treated with respect.

This is a shame because I just love the Pink Un site, but I don''t need the aggro, so I post less on here. Maybe a statement on behaviour and a new guideline by the moderators is needed.

If something isn''t done soon, I fear the worse for this otherwise excellent site, I don''t want to quit these boards as others have done, but I won''t tolerate the mindless few for much longer.

Alas, I fear, this post wont even make it past the moderators.

And that is tragic.

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Wiz, if you could pass on my email address to those ex-posters and if any would like to contact me with their concerns I would love to hear from them as we don''t want to lose posters, although the very nature of messageboards means that people come and go - I am surprised that the number of posts is this high in the off-season. Nevertheless, if people are being driven away then I want to know why and will do my best to put a stop to it.

As for insults and rude replies - if I see any then the whole post goes straight in the bin and I''ve noticed it''s calmed down a lot in the last few weeks. Hopefully now those posters who feel it necessary to insult others will know what they can and can''t get away with.

As for the speed of moderating, sadly that can''t be helped as we can''t all work 24/7 but I understand the whole moderation process is under review.

As for the Lizard comment - I thought there was another poster called Lizard, so my mistake, apologies.

I''ll take up the concerns of those who have felt compelled to leave the site with the rest of the team to try to come to a solution.

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[quote user="blahblahblah"]

Thanks Mook, good post.  I wanted to see if i was the only one in here who thought this was a problem, now I realise I''m not.

The worst threads in my opinion tend to follow this pattern :

Post 1 - fictional account of what is going on is posted by someone with no inside knowledge, just a grudge against the club / manager.  This can be an interpretation of an "absence of activity", a twisting of words from an interview or news conference, or a likening of an unrelated event to the situation at NCFC.

Posts 2 - 10 - people jump on the bandwagon exclaiming their dismay from the rafters.  Nobody stops to question whether the first post has any veracity.  Personal comments are passed on the person / people / organisation that the "news" was about.  Words like clown, disgrace, dismay are used frequently, things are laughable, and incredible, and defy belief, the posters are going out the back to top themselves at the "news".

Post 11 - Information becomes available proving that post 1 was in fact total nonsense.

Post 12 - 20 - the same people in posts 1 - 10 use this new information as a new way of saying something negative, never actually acknowledging that what they said previously was total bunkum.

My problem is not with people being negative, if what they say is based upon fact, and backed up with decent reasoning.

My problem is with people who as mook pointed out, conjure up any old rubbish, claim it as fact, and then use it as "proof" that highly qualified and experienced people "don''t know what they are doing".

I strongly suggest that people seek out the film Monty Pythons'' Life of Brian, especially the scene where Brian leaves his sandal behind as a "sign"...

[/quote]If you really want to defend NW from all the negative comments, the best thing you can do is counteract the argument with a positive argument in favour of NW - Well we are all waiting blabblah! - in fact I''ve been waiting two full seasons, If you could tell us all that NW was about to strengthen our Midfield with some quality then perhaps....... but no, because NW just doesn''t see it does he and you are obviously occupied in defending him that you don''t either - the problem is midfield - stone the crows is it that hard to see? we had Ashton who is a quality striker, it didn''t work, so what''s the answer? [midfield midfield midfield midfield!!!!] - the answer according to NW is an overpriced Robert  Hulse - I give up!!      And for the record books,  thats plain taiking not vitriol

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There''s a case for both sides really.

Blahblahblah, you''re a self-confessed supporter of Worthy, and like to

be positive about the club, which I seriously admire.  Therefore

you''re not going to like the posts highlighting the negatives.

However, like you say, there are too many threads simply saying the

same thing, and the ones that aren''t even about Worthington in any way

are often highjacked by a certain few who use it as the latest battle

ground for their pathetic bickering and back-biting (hence the thread

TC has posted).

Really people on here just need to learn to grow up a little, and think

about their posts more carefully - there are too many over-reactive

threads complaining about the latest piece of news, regardless of what

it is (such as the Leeds Away thead), but at the same time there are

too many immediate snide remarks from the other side of the argument.

Reasoned debate, it seems, is a thing of the past, and it is this which

is ruining the boards, not any one party being overly-positive, or

overly-negative. 

Purely and simply it is the lack of respect for fellow posters and other people''s opinions.

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[quote user="1st Wizard"]

1. Insults and rude replies from fellow posters to posters, one even refers to me as ''Lizard'' every time, and its allowed by the moderators!.

[/quote]

You may remember I commented a long time back how you change your colours like a chameleon. Thats why you''ll always be 1st Lizard as far as I''m concerned. Get the mods to filter free speech if thats what pleases you.

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It would be a shame if the Pink''un Team had to put a ''rules and regulations'' page before you enter the message board because people could not be civil to each other. I can understand that everyone can''t agree with each other all the time on some subjects but certain people''s own personal arguments with other posters are starting to get out of hand and is ruining this message board.

I think sometimes people just see the name of a poster they dislike and totally ignore their original post and turn the thread into a slanging match. If someone see''s a thread they disagree with then they should either have a sensible debate about the subject or just to simply ignore it. Its easier to ignore than it is to argue.

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[quote user="ROSSI 46"]

If i could use one word to describe the change that happened over a period of time, it would be the sudden loss of respect.

[/quote]

Dammit, just realised Rossi 46 had already made the point I was trying

to make above... that''ll teach me not to read every single post in

future!

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[quote user="John Boubepo"]

If you really want to defend NW from all the negative comments, the best thing you can do is counteract the argument with a positive argument in favour of NW - Well we are all waiting blabblah! - in fact I''ve been waiting two full seasons, If you could tell us all that NW was about to strengthen our Midfield with some quality then perhaps....... but no, because NW just doesn''t see it does he and you are obviously occupied in defending him that you don''t either - the problem is midfield - stone the crows is it that hard to see? we had Ashton who is a quality striker, it didn''t work, so what''s the answer? [midfield midfield midfield midfield!!!!] - the answer according to NW is an overpriced Robert  Hulse - I give up!!   
  And for the record books,  thats plain taiking not vitriol
[/quote]

I have to agree with this poster, our midfield was utterly shocking last season, and with 2 strikers on the wings and 2 incompetants in the centre (Safri apart) its no wonder we got destroyed so many times away from Carrow Road.  I wait with baited breath for the arrival of a Right Winger and a Good Quality Central Midfielder....  But we have Henderson on the right and Hughes in the middle I here you shout.....  what is going on?

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What a dull board this would be   if only  messages   of sweetness and light were allowed !   it aint natural,     let it all hang out , but  don`t bad mouth  people you don`t agree with .........[<:o)]

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Herb - Again you demonstrate that vitriol is not the sole domain of the negative poster. People who post on here know what 1st Wizard is about, yes he changes his mind, yes he posts stuff that is "near the knuckle, but he also posts some good stuff, you clearly have an issue with him but for some reason you have to get abusive, and we all get to see your abuse..........

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