England/Sven Playing Worthinton style Tactics

[John Boubepo 0]

Anyone else watching England/Sven make the same comparison? - bad substitutions, sitting far to deep and playing players out of position, great tactics! where have we seen that before? oh and after the game Sven said England played very well.

[JohnoBono 0]

I said to my mate during the second half this is just like watching Norwich City. It was like a re-run of last season.

[Huddy 0]

   Was it just me, or did the last 60 minutes remind you of norwich last season.  Sitting back, hanging on to a 1 goal lead!!!!

[Rasputin was a C... 0]

[quote user="Matt Hudson"]

   Was it just me, or did the last 60 minutes remind you of norwich last season.  Sitting back, hanging on to a 1 goal lead!!!!

[/quote]Only difference is England actully had a lead to defend :(

[Trent Canary 0]

[quote user="Matt Hudson"]

   Was it just me, or did the last 60 minutes remind you of norwich last season.  Sitting back, hanging on to a 1 goal lead!!!!

[/quote]

Ay? I didnt think we ever took the lead! Especially away..

But yes I was explaining to my housemate a few minutes ago the similarities between Sven and Worthy..

[USAcanary 0]

The big difference is that England looked solid defensively and they looked threatning through the midfield players.

 

 

[Ken Aries 0]

England looked uncannily like Norwich to me. I must confess I was beginning to believe all the pre-tournament hype in the media about what a great team England are. I just knew the lads would prove everybody wrong once the World Cup started. There is no doubt England will have to play a hell of a lot better than they did in the Paraguay match, if they are serious about winning the much coveted trophy.

[beelsie 0]

[quote user="John Boubepo"]Anyone else watching England/Sven make the same comparison? - bad substitutions, sitting far to deep and playing players out of position, great tactics! where have we seen that before? oh and after the game Sven said England played very well.
[/quote]  

 Well John, I expect that the England Manager is out of the replacement equasion for NCFC then?

[Hugh Jarse 0]

I think there are two very worrying aspects here, the first one is - it doesn''t matter that you have the best 22 players England can produce [and they are very good] if the manager is totally inept, the 22 extremely talented players wont overcome the managers ineptness. 

 

Norwich have a similar size squad of very average players and an inept manager, what chance do they have? 

 

The second thing which worries me, from England''s point of view at least, is that every time the camera swung over to Sven, he seemed to be taking advice from McClaren!! I pray I''m wrong here and good ole Steve was actually trying to talk Sven out of making the  Worthington style errors which took place.

[blahblahblah 2]

Congratulations all on finding a new way to complain about Norwich.  Your ability to find new and ever more abstract ways of linking events which have nothing in common and using them to knock Norwich is truly incredible.  You are all true fans if ever there was such a thing.

Was anyone else sweating during the game ?  I was in my garden, sweltering away and reaching for a cold one to mop my brow with as our boys toiled.  It was extremely hot, and to be fair the conditions did suit the South Americans better than ourselves.

The team we were playing against featured players from River Plate, Real Zaragoza, Deportivo La Coruna, Werder Bremen, and Bayern Munich.  In other words, half their team regularly play top-flight football.  So although we should have beaten them, and we did, they were never going to be pushovers.  

We now have a game against Trinidad and Tobago, which should be more comfortable as most of their first team play in the lower English leagues, more Premiership vs League 1 than the Premiership vs a decent UEFA Cup team, which is what Paraguay effectively are.  Swedens failure to beat Trinidad leaves 2nd place in the group wide open, and I wouldn''t be surprised if Paraguay could get a result against Sweden and take second place. 

 

[John Boubepo 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

Congratulations all on finding a new way to complain about Norwich.  Your ability to find new and ever more abstract ways of linking events which have nothing in common and using them to knock Norwich is truly incredible.  You are all true fans if ever there was such a thing.

[/quote] So playing poor tactics, making the wrong substitutions, playing players out of position, sitting too deep and an overall dull performance - nothing in common there then! but then it was oh! so very hot wasn''t it and those clever, cunning Paraguayans must have been playing in the shady parts of the pitch because they obviously weren''t affected by the heat at all.

[blahblahblah 2]

You seem to be very adept at throwing a bunch of negative comments together without backing them up, as if putting them all together gives them some form of credibility :

Sitting too deep for who ?  We appear to have won the match, would you rather that our players exhaust themselves looking for a second goal and get caught late on, as happened to Japan ?

Playing poor tactics - how were they poor ? 

Making the wrong substitutions - How were they wrong ?

Which players played out of position ? 

The fact is we won.  No-one will care how we won once we out of the group stages.  I would expect us to play better in cooler conditions, and against teams that play a more open game.  We''ll have to see.

[Hugh Jarse 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

You seem to be very adept at throwing a bunch of negative comments together without backing them up, as if putting them all together gives them some form of credibility :

Sitting too deep for who ?  We appear to have won the match, would you rather that our players exhaust themselves looking for a second goal and get caught late on, as happened to Japan ?

Playing poor tactics - how were they poor ? 

Making the wrong substitutions - How were they wrong ?

Which players played out of position ? 

The fact is we won.  No-one will care how we won once we out of the group stages.  I would expect us to play better in cooler conditions, and against teams that play a more open game.  We''ll have to see.

[/quote]

I take it that you didn''t actually watch the game then blahblah?

[John Boubepo 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

You seem to be very adept at throwing a bunch of negative comments together without backing them up, as if putting them all together gives them some form of credibility :

Sitting too deep for who ?  We appear to have won the match, would you rather that our players exhaust themselves looking for a second goal and get caught late on, as happened to Japan ?

Playing poor tactics - how were they poor ? 

Making the wrong substitutions - How were they wrong ?

Which players played out of position ? 

The fact is we won.  No-one will care how we won once we out of the group stages.  I would expect us to play better in cooler conditions, and against teams that play a more open game.  We''ll have to see.

[/quote]I think that every newspaper report, every website report, TV news, plus the entire  panel during the game watched the same game as myself and all came to a similar conclusion.You yourself use the heat as an excuse but why do you need an excuse if you believe there was nothing wrong with Englands perfomance? if the heat was a factor [and it''s the same heat for both teams] it''s because England failed to control the game and ended up chasing the game which brings us back to tactics, sitting too deep etc etc.If you really didn''t see it the same as every living creature in the entire Universe, then I''m obviously wasting time trying to convince you but then that''s football I guess

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]I think that every newspaper report, every website report, TV news, plus the entire panel during the game watched the same game as myself and all came to a similar conclusion./[/quote]

Really ?  Alan Hansen said "It''s just like watching Norwich ?"

[quote]If you really didn''t see it the same as every living creature in the entire Universe...[/quote]

Ah, the old "me and all my friends" argument...  yawn... 

[quote]You yourself use the heat as an excuse but why do you need an excuse if you believe there was nothing wrong with Englands perfomance[/quote]

I don''t need an excuse, we won the game, and are 2 points clear, needing a win against a team full of league 1 players to go through to the next round.  But Sven himself has been on the telly tonight saying we probably concentrated on holding the lead instead of attacking more, so I guess you have a point somewhere, I''ll let you know if I can extract it from the anti-Worthington rants. 

If I were boss though, I would rather win 1-0 playing cattenacio in a group match than please the likes of you with attacking football only to lose a goal, however.  If we get through to the knock-out stages, you won''t care how we beat Paraguay, just that we beat them, to claim otherwise is disingenuous.

[quote] if the heat was a factor [and it''s the same heat for both teams] it''s because England failed to control the game and ended up chasing the game which brings us back to tactics, sitting too deep etc etc.[/quote]

England failed to control the game.  Why do you think that is ?  Is it because they weren''t playing a pub team, but because they were pitted against good players for top-level sides who weren''t just going to lie down and play dead ?  Or do you put that all at the hands of Sven and his tactics ? May I remind you that we won the game ?

 

[John Boubepo 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"] 

England failed to control the game.  Why do you think that is ?  Is it because they weren''t playing a pub team, but because they were pitted against good players for top-level sides who weren''t just going to lie down and play dead ?  Or do you put that all at the hands of Sven and his tactics ? May I remind you that we won the game ?

 

[/quote]Nothing like bending the truth to help your argument eh blahblaha, funny really because no one else realised England were pitted against such a good team, perhaps you should inform William Hill who has them at 500/1, just to put that into perspective - Skybet has Angola also at 500/1, oh England are 5/1 which according to my reckoning makes England on paper at least the superior side, therefore a far better display was expected than the one  witnessed on Saturday

[Matthew Quinn 0]

Yes Svens negativity in bringing off Owen and leaving Crouch on his own up front was to a large degree responsible for Englands poor second half showing. Sitting back on a 1-0 lead is never a good tactic and we were lucky to gwt away with it.

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

England failed to control the game.  Why do you think that is ?  Is it because they weren''t playing a pub team, but because they were pitted against good players for top-level sides who weren''t just going to lie down and play dead ?  Or do you put that all at the hands of Sven and his tactics ? May I remind you that we won the game ?

 

[/quote]

[blahblahblah 2]

Owen was not fit to play 90 minutes.  I thought Joe Cole did a reasonable job in supporting Crouch, myself.  But then I''ve never been one to moan about a win, no matter how they come about.

[blahblahblah 2]

How many Paraguayans do you know in England ?  Bookmakers set their odds according to the bets they have taken, odds are determined by the market.  Just because the public doesn''t expect a team to do well, doesn''t mean that they won''t do well.  I''m not suggesting that Paraguay will go on to win the World Cup, far from it.  But they''re not as bad as you are trying to paint them.

[John Boubepo 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]How many Paraguayans do you know in England ?  Bookmakers set their odds according to the bets they have taken, odds are determined by the market.  Just because the public doesn''t expect a team to do well, doesn''t mean that they won''t do well.  I''m not suggesting that Paraguay will go on to win the World Cup, far from it.  But they''re not as bad as you are trying to paint them.[/quote]I think you will find Bookmakers  use some kind of White Mans Magic and operate on the World Wide Web these days, meaning the price is open to anybody and they can pay in any currency from any country, how times have changed? no doubt this revelation will have you logging on and putting half a crown each way on Paraguay to win the World Cup blahblah?

[Old Boy 0]

[quote user="John Boubepo"]Anyone else watching England/Sven make the same comparison? - bad substitutions, sitting far to deep and playing players out of position, great tactics! where have we seen that before? oh and after the game Sven said England played very well.
[/quote]

Anyone else reading this thread make the same comparison? - ignorant people confusing the way the team went off the boil (not a good metaphor, I know) with the manager''s tactics. Sven didn''t "play people out of position" - Cole is well used to playing there - and the substitutions were sensible. It''s silly to suggest Ericsson told the midfield to sit deep - they did so because they were tiring and they were on the back foot. Another similarity with our local situation was that key players underperformed - when Beckham, Gerrard, Owen and Neville all flake out, there''s not a lot any manager can do about it during the game. What happens next will show whether there''s any valid comparison betwen Sven and Worthy.

[Hugh Jarse 0]

[quote user="Old Boy"]

  Sven didn''t "play people out of position" - Cole is well used to playing there - and the substitutions were sensible.

[/quote]

So Cole plays alongside a big man up front regularly does he?  - the tactics were poor, in fact very poor which I think is why several people made a direct link with Worthington but most worrying of all is Sven appeared to be taking advice from McClaren! which doesn''t bode well for the future. As for the "sensible substitutions" you are going to be extremely pushed to find anyone other than blahblah of course, who would actually agree with that line

[Evil Monkey 52]

Maybe we should take a coach-load of Norwich fans over to Germany and

start "We Want Worthy Out" chants at England games, that would help the

team perform, for sure......

[Old Boy 0]

[quote user=" Hugh Jarse"]

So Cole plays alongside a big man up front regularly does he?  - the tactics were poor, in fact very poor which I think is why several people made a direct link with Worthington but most worrying of all is Sven appeared to be taking advice from McClaren! which doesn''t bode well for the future. As for the "sensible substitutions" you are going to be extremely pushed to find anyone other than blahblah of course, who would actually agree with that line[/quote]

What does the other striker''s height have to do with whether Cole was played out of position? Does Owen regularly play alongside a 6''7" target man? An irrelevancy - Cole has the skills and the instinct to make it work, and has played as a striker. The problem against Paraguay wasn''t tactics - Lampard and Gerrard both went into their shells, Owen''s touch disappeared and Neville gave the ball away a lot. I doubt that Sven told them to do that....

More sensible substitutions tonight from Sven, with the same result - England win. Maybe that will get L and G playing more freely. Come on England....... come on Sven....

[John Boubepo 0]

[quote user="Old Boy"]

What does the other striker''s height have to do with whether Cole was played out of position? Does Owen regularly play alongside a 6''7" target man? An irrelevancy -

[/quote]With a  6''7"striker most teams tend to fashion their tactics accordingly, you probably think it''s irrelevent because you watch Norwich who play as if they have a 7''3" striker when they actually have a 4''10" striker

[Hugh Jarse 0]

[quote user="John Boubepo"][quote user="Old Boy"]

What does the other striker''s height have to do with whether Cole was played out of position? Does Owen regularly play alongside a 6''7" target man? An irrelevancy -

[/quote]

With a  6''7"striker most teams tend to fashion their tactics accordingly, you probably think it''s irrelevent because you watch Norwich, who play as if they have a 7''3" striker when they actually have a 4''10" striker
[/quote]

Are you sure Earnie is 4''10" John? my mate is Welsh and swears he''s 3''9" he also swears Worthy suffers from Dyscalculia, which according to Taffy means Worthy thinks Earnie is 9''3"

[sheded 0]

Facts are facts !     the  heat and humidity  had  the crowd sweating , what do you think the players  were feeling ?   AND  the Paraguayans  would be far more used to the heat than our lads .

Heat or not ,  we had plenty of chances  at their goal ,  and we  muffed them  !    I guess the pressure  from our fans  , the heat  and  the occasion  would be factors ,  its significant  that when  the " goalpost "  scored against  Trinidad  and Tobago   , that Gerrard   relaxed  , and booted in a blinder !

A few of the players did  say , after the match , that we shouldn`t  have played the long ball so much  , so they are aware as anybody  that the tactics were wrong .

The sweden match  should see Lennon  and Walcott   in action  , Lennon looks impressive  and up for it  ,  isn`t this a game we have to win   to avoid  playing the Argies ?

[Ken Aries 0]

I thought it was quite amusing that the goalpost/beanpole/lamppost Peter Crouch, found it necessary to use that T&T defender''s greasy dreadlocks as some kind of "rope-ladder" in order to gain sufficient elevation to head the ball in to the net. There he was, all nine foot ten inches of him, and he still needed a "leg up" to score a goal.

[The Fish Seller 0]

The Sun also seems to feel there are similarities between Svens England and NW''s Norwich.

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2002390000-2006280032,00.html

 

Note the use of the word "Hoofing" [:D] [:D]  and here http://worldcup.blogs.nytimes.com/?p=121

[macdougalls perm 0]

I think that there will be an improvement when we play teams who aren''t just sitting 9 men in front of their penalty area, holding out for a draw. There just isn''t room for Owen to run into in this situation - Rooney is far more suited to this type of play. And for anyone who thinks that teams at this level will roll over - it just doesn''t happen. One more point, played 2, won 2, 6 points, goals for 3, goals against 0.

But congratulations for thinking of a new way to have a go at Worthington. [;)]