Pass me the razor blades . . .

[mystic megson 0]

Quote from ND in today''s EDP re. transfer budget:

"What we have done this year is what we always do.  We allocate the amount to be spent by the manager as he sees fit.  Whether he chooses to spend it on one or six players, on free transfers or wages or loans is really down to his judgment.  It is not the board''s place to tell the manager who to buy and we would never dream of doing that.  That has been the case for the last nine years and it will continue to be the case."

Sounds fine on the surface, doesn''t it?  We give him the money, and if he doesn''t spend it right it''s all his fault.  But look more closely at ND''s statement, and it''s not what he says but what he doesn''t say that is crucial.

"WE allocate the amount to be spent".  Surely budget-setting should be carried out in consultation with the manager (whoever he may be)?  Something like this:

1. The board and the manager together identify the club''s aims for the coming season. 

2. The manager estimates what it will take to achieve those aims in terms of player resources. 

3. The board estimate how close they can come to providing the amount of money required. 

4. The board and the manager negotiate over the gap between the two and together arrive at a budget. 

"WE allocate the amount to be spent."  Finance first, football nowhere.  Horse, cart, before, putting.  Far from being pally pally, it sounds as though the board and the manager operate in a parallel universe.

I feel sick.

[streakey 0]

What is meant by the " transfer budget " is what little is  left out of our season ticket and sponsorship monies after all the wages and salaries have been  paid to all those endless stream of jobs worths who are entrenched deep in Carrow Road. Jobs for the boys! Its an industry now and not sport ,once they have our money we are powerless and have to put up with what ever so called entertainment they serve us up. Paying at each game or renewing a season ticket at the last minute would make them sharpen their act up,but 20,000 have put them back in the driving seat this season.Wilkinson or Gillette ?

[Rasputin was a C... 0]

It is something I''m worried about. For all the anger aimed at Worthington it does seem like he is being held back by the board despite all the "we support him 100%" comments that come from the infamous PR department. How much better he''d be if he wasn''t given free reign is debateable and I personally think that no matter how much support he gets and money his time has come to move on. But would we be in this situation had he been able to buy the quality players and not had to resort to loans and free transfers. The board is as much to blame for our current situation as the manager and big changes need to be made. I''ve said it else where that someone needs to be brought in at board level who over looks the football side of the "Football Club" and the others concentrate more on the business side. I''m not saying that if this happened all would be brilliant but something needs to happen as on many occassions the impression the club give off is that they don''t really know what they are doing. Which isn''t something that gives supporters confidence.

[Getting off the fence 0]

[quote user="Rasputin was a C..."]It is something I''m worried about. For all the anger aimed at Worthington it does seem like he is being held back by the board despite all the "we support him 100%" comments that come from the infamous PR department. How much better he''d be if he wasn''t given free reign is debateable and I personally think that no matter how much support he gets and money his time has come to move on. But would we be in this situation had he been able to buy the quality players and not had to resort to loans and free transfers. The board is as much to blame for our current situation as the manager and big changes need to be made. I''ve said it else where that someone needs to be brought in at board level who over looks the football side of the "Football Club" and the others concentrate more on the business side. I''m not saying that if this happened all would be brilliant but something needs to happen as on many occassions the impression the club give off is that they don''t really know what they are doing. Which isn''t something that gives supporters confidence.
[/quote]

Out of curiosity, when do you think that the club was well run by the board?

[mystic megson 0]

[quote user="Rasputin was a C..."]It is something I''m worried about. For all the anger aimed at Worthington it does seem like he is being held back by the board despite all the "we support him 100%" comments that come from the infamous PR department. How much better he''d be if he wasn''t given free reign is debateable and I personally think that no matter how much support he gets and money his time has come to move on. But would we be in this situation had he been able to buy the quality players and not had to resort to loans and free transfers. The board is as much to blame for our current situation as the manager and big changes need to be made. I''ve said it else where that someone needs to be brought in at board level who over looks the football side of the "Football Club" and the others concentrate more on the business side. I''m not saying that if this happened all would be brilliant but something needs to happen as on many occassions the impression the club give off is that they don''t really know what they are doing. Which isn''t something that gives supporters confidence.
[/quote]Couldn''t agree more.  The problem could actually be solved quite readily by bringing someone in to the boardroom whose knowledge base and focus is on football.  The real problem is that the board don''t accept that there IS a problem. We''ve been here before, haven''t we?

[ZLF 271]

Razors - a bit over dramatic methinks!

Just how many clubs budgets are run by anyone but the board?  Managers at some clubs may draw up a wish list of required players but other than at Chelski it is the board that will say you can only have x amount of cash.  The only exception seems to have been leeds where ridsdale got sucked into mad o''learys dream at leeds and spent well beyond they finances.

It has and always will be that way.  It is the managers job to maximise the use of that budget.  

Didnt I read somewhere that city have the second largest wage bill in the champs?  If that is the case (and I am sure I will be put right if thats is wrong) that, the not insubstantial transfer funds spent and the numerous, frequent and not cheap loan signings suggests the board have hardly restricted the manager from a funds point of view.

[David4567 0]

Why do people on this board pick holes in anything the Board or Management say and try and put a negative spin on it.

Can we try and be a bit more positive, I know it''s hard after the past season but this moaning is getting boring.

[Cantley 0]

Oh come on - surely someone must have a razor blade for MM?

[ZLF 271]

In many ways I agree david and but chose to overlook such posts  - however we live in a country of freedom of speach and this site is a way for people to express their fears views and opinions on city related topics. 

Personally I struggle to understand why so many fans are prepared to accept so many intolerable performances and clear managerial mistakes over the last 2 years - but if thats their opinion so be it, I will just have to disagree..

[percyvarco 0]

David4567 - NCFC empolyee?

Take the stage and explain in your opinion exactly what you see as positive for next season without harping back to Worthy''s play off, promotion record as justification as to why you employ him........................ Every post I have seen form you defends the Board & Management, so why are they so good in your eyes?

[David4567 0]

[quote user="percyvarco"]

David4567 - NCFC empolyee?

Take the stage and explain in your opinion exactly what you see as positive for next season without harping back to Worthy''s play off, promotion record as justification as to why you employ him........................ Every post I have seen form you defends the Board & Management, so why are they so good in your eyes?

[/quote]

 

First lets get things straight I''m not an NCFC employee, I have no connection with the club other than being a supporter and season ticket holder.

I don''t care who the manager is or who the board are as long as we get success on the pitch, and if Worthy can turn things around next season then I have no problems with that.

I''m NOT a KTF''er nor am I a Worthy Out''er, I''m somewhere in the middle of the two extreams.

We can''t be sucessful all the time and you have to take the highs with the lows, so I''m happy to forget this season and get behind the team next season.

I was just making the point that people are picking holes in Worthy and the board for the sake of making arguements and it''s getting boring.

Anyway someone has to stick up for Worthy and the board!!! Dont they?!

[Yellow Rages 0]

[quote user="David4567"][quote user="percyvarco"]

David4567 - NCFC empolyee?

Take the stage and explain in your opinion exactly what you see as positive for next season without harping back to Worthy''s play off, promotion record as justification as to why you employ him........................ Every post I have seen form you defends the Board & Management, so why are they so good in your eyes?

[/quote]

 

First lets get things straight I''m not an NCFC employee, I have no connection with the club other than being a supporter and season ticket holder.

I don''t care who the manager is or who the board are as long as we get success on the pitch, and if Worthy can turn things around next season then I have no problems with that.

I''m NOT a KTF''er nor am I a Worthy Out''er, I''m somewhere in the middle of the two extreams.

We can''t be sucessful all the time and you have to take the highs with the lows, so I''m happy to forget this season and get behind the team next season.

I was just making the point that people are picking holes in Worthy and the board for the sake of making arguements and it''s getting boring.

Anyway someone has to stick up for Worthy and the board!!! Dont they?!

[/quote]

David,

That''s the unfortunate reality of this message board. If you dont pick holes in everything that happens at the club you are tagged as a Worthy Lover. And likewise if you comment on something bad at the club, you will be classed as a Worthy Outer. Lots of posters don''t seem to realise that there are a mixture of both bad and good things about the club. It''s generally not accepted on here to take an issue on face value and comment on it based on it''s own merits.

It is of course everyones right to comment and speak up about how they feel but the ''instant opinion'' displayed rather than the ''assessed opinion'' is a real shame.

The amusing part is seeing an article on the home page and guessing who on the message board will say what about it. It only takes a couple of weeks to know enough about the posters to get it right most of the time. That''s how predictable the extreem negative stance is.

On a brighter note, there are a number of decent posters who will be a little more objective and it''s always a pleasure chewing the fat with them.

Don''t let the bad eggs put you off.

[mystic megson 0]

[quote user="David4567"]

Why do people on this board pick holes in anything the Board or Management say and try and put a negative spin on it.

Can we try and be a bit more positive, I know it''s hard after the past season but this moaning is getting boring.

[/quote]It''s more a case of trying to see through the positive spin coming out of Carrow Road.  Why do we believe that it''s a well run club? Because they tell us so. That won''t do any more. 

I appreciate that the board (or, more specifically, Delia and Michael''s financial input) got us out of a fiscal nightmare.  (Incidentally, it was the previous Chief Executive, Gordon Bennett - remember him? who did the most difficult bit, by stabilising the ship immediately after Chase went in 1996/7.) 

But I''ve got a major problem with the fact that, as ND himself has said, they haven''t felt it necessary to move on since then, despite massive changes in football. It seems that financial stability has become an end in itself.  This club is stagnating, and that starts in the boardroom, where there''s a chronic lack of leadership.

Let''s not forget how we got into a financial mess in the first place.  By spending too much on transfer fees and players wages?  No. We spent too little, got relegated and the rest is history. 

Is putting football first too much to ask?  To have an idea of what we are trying to achieve in football terms, and then look at how close we can get to funding it?  Are we still trying "do a Charlton" or not?   

Would any of you object if someone new came into the boardroom with the expertise and focus on what it takes, in fnancial terms, to run a successful football club, and what it is realistic for us to achieve with the funding we have available? 

David NCFC Employee, I WAS trying to be a bit more positive.  Until I read ND''s statement, which makes it horribly clear that the board have learned nothing from the events of last season.  I''m concerned because there is something to be concerned about. 

I doubt if there''s a single City fan over the age of 7 who still swallows the "Only Believe", "Keep The Faith" marketing hype coming out of CR.  Every single one of us knows there''s something quite seriously wrong.  We just don''t agree on what it is. 

 

[David4567 0]

I''m glad there are still some people on here who wont shoot me down with insults if I say anything positive, it sad that this message board has just become full of name calling.

I''m still confused why some people seem to think I''m a NCFC employee, as I''m not although I''d love to be even if it did result in insults from people telling me I''m doing a crap job.

Maybe I''ll apply for first team coach as everyone seems to think I''m best mates with Worthy and the Board!!!

OTBC

[Ron Jeremy, City fan. 0]

It is interesting to compare the boards of Norwich and Ipswich on the respective websites.  The latter group actually sound a lot more impressive than some of the famous five that we have in situ.  Next season the comparisons will be very interesting - both teams having had poor seasons, one team sticking with their manager, the other opting for change. 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

"Are we still trying "do a Charlton" or not?"

I really hate this comparison, we are not Charlton, just like we are not West Ham.  Charlton''s manager has done an excellent job and continued to do an excellent job at Charlton year in year out.

Is Worthington or will he ever be a ''premiership level boss'', I like all Worthy Outers and many KTFers, don''t feel he has the potential to manage at the top flight level.  When he is picking up players of the ability levels of Hughes and playing Holt over Safri this becomes extremely evident.

If we are doing a charlton we need to find a potential premier level boss to move us forwards, not sit with a limited man whom  does no better no matter how much fands are passed in his direction.

[David4567 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

If we are doing a charlton we need to find a potential premier level boss to move us forwards, not sit with a limited man whom  does no better no matter how much fands are passed in his direction.

[/quote]

You always seem to have plenty to say so I pose a question for you. Who do you think is good enough to manage Norwich and would realistically want to come to Norwich?

[chicken 0]

"It''s more a case of trying to see through the positive spin coming out

of Carrow Road.  Why do we believe that it''s a well run club? Because

they tell us so. That won''t do any more."Oh deary me! Its come to this?!!! I am going down th old bomb shelter at the bottom of the garden - let me know when the war has blown over!Are you actually suggesting that we take nothing the club says anymore? I mean if that is the case then what is the point of listening to you? We may as well just have our own opinions on the club and take them as fact.In which case my reality of the situation is that loads of people have put bets on Worthington being sacked before the beggining of the new season - he is not out yet and so people are becoming more and more desperate to find ways to try and get him out.In the mean time the players have clubbed together to buy a small island for which to maroon the moaners and whingers on and also pay the cartographers to remove from all reccords its exhistance.I then predict that one of the supporters will be a doctor, one an escaped female criminal and another a guy who had up until recently lost the use of his legs and owns a box making company. Strangely they find some sort of bunker underground.Delia, so upset with the harsh reality of having to do this to some of the fans, then buys herself a nearby island so that she can supply the maroonees with her wonderful cooking and even has secret satellite serveilance on the island televised for reality television which earns the club billions of pounds world wide.Thats my reality - you try telling me its not real! Come on just try it!!!

[mystic megson 0]

[quote user="chicken"]"It''s more a case of trying to see through the positive spin coming out of Carrow Road.  Why do we believe that it''s a well run club? Because they tell us so. That won''t do any more."

Oh deary me! Its come to this?!!! I am going down th old bomb shelter at the bottom of the garden - let me know when the war has blown over!

Are you actually suggesting that we take nothing the club says anymore? I mean if that is the case then what is the point of listening to you? We may as well just have our own opinions on the club and take them as fact.

In which case my reality of the situation is that loads of people have put bets on Worthington being sacked before the beggining of the new season - he is not out yet and so people are becoming more and more desperate to find ways to try and get him out.

In the mean time the players have clubbed together to buy a small island for which to maroon the moaners and whingers on and also pay the cartographers to remove from all reccords its exhistance.

I then predict that one of the supporters will be a doctor, one an escaped female criminal and another a guy who had up until recently lost the use of his legs and owns a box making company. Strangely they find some sort of bunker underground.

Delia, so upset with the harsh reality of having to do this to some of the fans, then buys herself a nearby island so that she can supply the maroonees with her wonderful cooking and even has secret satellite serveilance on the island televised for reality television which earns the club billions of pounds world wide.

Thats my reality - you try telling me its not real! Come on just try it!!!
[/quote]

Has something upset you Chicken?

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="David4567"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

If we are doing a charlton we need to find a potential premier level boss to move us forwards, not sit with a limited man whom  does no better no matter how much fands are passed in his direction.

[/quote]

You always seem to have plenty to say so I pose a question for you. Who do you think is good enough to manage Norwich and would realistically want to come to Norwich?

[/quote]

I have posted a long list of potential candidates many times before, I can''t be bothered to find it or do it again.  Suffice to say, most managers even in this division would relish a chance to manage this club, we have 25,000 fans, a sum of money to spend, a tolerant board willing to give a manager time (even in the face of total mismanagement) and some very good players here at the moment.

I would be happy for any manager whom can organise a team, motivate the players, spot a player, and has potential.  sopmeone whom will actually sign a right winger and not play left backs in midfield.  Someone whom will not let go of valuable good professionals so easily and replace them with unscouted players.

 Worthy rates Andy Hughes and feels a month in which we draw 1 game lose all the rest and are knocked outta the cup an ''average'' month.  In my eyes that makes him happy with mediocrity and in no way the man to bring us forward.  He has managed to create a team whose only tactic is to lump the ball up to a dwarf.

He is in no way better than Gary Megson (2 promotions) or Mick Mccarthy.  I want the next George Burley at our club, not our current Gary Megson equivalent......

[mystic megson 0]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

Razors - a bit over dramatic methinks!

Just how many clubs budgets are run by anyone but the board?  Managers at some clubs may draw up a wish list of required players but other than at Chelski it is the board that will say you can only have x amount of cash.  The only exception seems to have been leeds where ridsdale got sucked into mad o''learys dream at leeds and spent well beyond they finances.

It has and always will be that way.  It is the managers job to maximise the use of that budget.  

Didnt I read somewhere that city have the second largest wage bill in the champs?  If that is the case (and I am sure I will be put right if thats is wrong) that, the not insubstantial transfer funds spent and the numerous, frequent and not cheap loan signings suggests the board have hardly restricted the manager from a funds point of view.

[/quote]The point I am making is that there needs to be a preliminary stage, where the board and manager together agree on what the club is trying to achieve.  If you re-read my original post, I''m in no way advocating that the board simply hands over unlimited amounts of money on demand.

As far as the "second largest wage bill" is concerned, no one can possibly know whether that''s true until the Annual Reports for 2005/06 come out at towards the end of this year.  Given the amount we had to spend on loan players because our squad was not big enough, I wouldn''t be at all surprised.

There was an interview with the owner of Gretna on R5 last night.  Even Gretna have a five-year plan.  Football is anything but an exact science, but every business needs a plan.  If we have one, I can''t see why the board would keep it a secret.  I totally agree with Ian Gibson MP (I''m not a Labour voter by the way).  We need the club to state where it wants to go and how it intends to get there.