Great Fans, LOUSEY MANAGER!

[First Wizard 0]

I know and you know, that I''m not a great fan of Nigel Worthington, But I was really trying to like him, honestly. Yes, I know 2nd place is hard to arque with, but I believe we are in a totaly false position.

When the holy trio have gone (and I have now reluctenly accepted that they will ) then all that beckons us is a mid or lower position in division 1. In my opion, the board don''t give a damn about our ambitions, other than trying to balance the books, and whats on the menu in Delia''s cafe!.

The manager''s tactics at times have reduced me to tears, he''s inept, cautious and lacking in any vision. Hell, even our one quality player Mulryne can''t get on.

Oh for a time machine, going back 12 years or more, fast, flowing total football. Dream on I suppose, cause I can''t see these dire performances ending.

Solutions. keep the great fans, you are pricless. Dump ''the lucky so far'' manager, replace him with (no better not upset Mook!) get rid of some of the board (Doomcaster) and pray!.

Now where did I put them anti depressents...............

[Mook 0]

I read this post wondering what club you were talking about. I''m disgusted that you are refering to Nigel.

This is beyond a joke Wiz, stop trying to bring dissent into the ranks of a club that is, so far, doing very very well. You''re just making life more difficult than it needs to be - the true sign of a Norwich fan. And Mulryne is not our only quality player.

[xx 0]

Well said Mook. Look how far worthy has brought us on since his arrival. Considering virtually no fans (including myself) wanted him when he first came he''s done a brilliant job.

Also as his hands are pretty much tied, finacially speaking, he''s built a squad worthy (pardon the pun) of 2nd place in the league.

Carry on the good work Nigel!

[ca 1]

Mook,
Are you related to Worthy? Even when he makes a mistake with team selection etc you always defend him.Plus you always seem to see the boards point of view never your fellow supporters!

[Snake Pit Rebel 0]

Totally agree with you Diane..

I think Mook is happy enough to stay in this dreadfull league forever..

Why do fans as fantastic and as loyal as us continually have to settle for second best?

It is now time for the club to give a little back-me thinks!!

[First Wizard 0]

Thank God for fans like Di (If I may be so bold) and Snake Pit Rebel. I just hope Mook, that come May 2004, you are right, and I''m proved totally wrong!. However come May or even earler, and I and others are proved correct, I trust you''ll have the grace to admit that we may have sussed out something you have''nt, or will not see through your admirable though it is, blind loyalty to the cause!.

I''m big enough to do it, are you?.

[Mook 0]

Why do you always say the same thing? I get fed up of having to say "no, I''m not happy in this league forever" and now I can''t be bothered. Diane, you are nothing but a moaner - someone who enjoys the benefit of hindsight to point out other people''s mistakes. It''s constantly Worthy should have done this, Worthy should have done that. BORING. Snake pit - please stop saying the same thing over and over again. I''d rather be winning the champions league than watching Crewe, but I can recognize progress. If you can''t then open your eyes, it''s easy to see. And dreadful only has one L.

Do you really think we''re the only "fantastic and loyal" fans in the world?

That''s a really egotistical viewpoint, when there are plenty of other fans of plenty of other teams that don''t continually shout and moan at their own players, manager and board.

BECAUSE THEY ARE LOYAL - LIKE ME.

You should take a long hard look at yourselves canaries - we''re second, we''re doing well and if you can''t see that then I''m wasting my time. For every one of you timewasting moaners, I could get ten happy canaries to sing songs and wave our flags - so stop watching them if you don''t like them, let some people in to the ground who will appreciate that it''s not always going to be easy and that there are other ways of succeeding.

[Snake Pit Rebel 0]

I''m not going to let you dictate to me Mook as you will not find a more dedicated and loyal fan in myself!

All that we are asking for is this board to give a little bit back to the fans..

Don''t you think that we deserve it?

When the club asked us to help with the loss of money from the collapse of ITV Digital me and many thousands of others dug deep to help our beloved Canaries..

Now i feel we really need to speculate in order to succeed..

[gazzathegreat 0]

mook, i don''t want to get personal about this mate, i am sure you are a loyal and true canary, we all are, if we weren''t we wouldn''t be on here would we, we would just go to the game and it would end there, we wouldn''t spend what is probably too much time on websites, writing letters to the pink un, to the directors, etc etc, all of which i plead guilty to in the past three months.

I have many a time taken a long hard look at myself, i can''t boast 20000 consecutive games, i have missed big games over the years for family stuff, when i couldn''t afford to go, no one can really claim to be the number one fan, we all are. But what i do feel at the moment is this season we have been given a golden chance by both worthy, who incidentially i rate for the way he stands up to the board, if not always for his tactical decisions, and the board for getting the loan players here in the first place. He has brought in three players, who i am sure even you have to agree have helped us to that second place, and it is great - but please, if they go, we won''t be second at the end of the season - do you really think we would be second but for hucks, crouch and harper?

That is what snake pit rebel, diane, myself and rainbowchaser amongst others are saying. We want to take that chance to have the premiership experience again. I know there are always fans who will watch anything, as long as they are in yellow shirts, that is not me and you can call me disloyal, perhaps i am, i have my limits, like most people, but i cannot sit back and watch this club throw away our best chance in years of escaping the nationwide. I really can''t. I know i have said this constantly on many a post, and i will continue whatever the decision, whenever that may be.

If the board buy them both, i will be on here congratulating them. And i still think things can be worked out, but they are making such a meal of it, both of them could be our players already, and the deals sealed. I want the best for our club, and we have been here long enough, how much longer before you yourself would want some answers? If we don''t do these deals, if we don''t get promoted soon, some even tougher decisions will have to be made, Worthy himself won''t stay forever, Green, Drury are both premiership standard, how long before they go?

We are all after promotion in this division, but this year we have the golden opportunity - we have a great, great chance. Sorry, i cannot sit back and do nothing. I have tried to speak to various people on the board, but they don''t consider one mere fan worth talking to. Fact. So i come on here and other boards, to discuss our options.

That''s all there is to it, yes, i do want our club to risk it all and go for it. Call me disloyal, call me mad, but i tell you something, mook, i am as passionate about this club as you and everyone who holds a different opinion.

[beelsie 0]

Well Gazza & oppos'' I''ve only one request while respecting your loyalty and your affection for NCFC. That all of you, if the investment you are considering, takes place, and we still do''nt make it to the prem, will you mend the hole made in the NCFC bank balance.

[ca 1]

Mook,
Just because I have an opinion it doesn''t make me a moaner.I have had a season ticket for 20+years and I am absolutely passionate about this club.Like Snake Pit Rebel,1st Wizard and gazza the great I think that we have a wonderful opportunity to be promoted this year if we keep Crouch and Hucks.We need to grab it with both hands as we may not be in this position ever again.We must speculate to accumulate right now because if those boys go back next week we could be midway in the table by May and could be stuck in this division for ever.
Those of us who are passionate about this club,and I know you are too,Mook just want bigger and better things,is that so wrong?

[ca 1]

But if we make that investment Beelsie,we will have at least given it our best shot otherwise we will be left wondering what could have been!

[susie b 0]

Diane,
I totally agree with what you are saying. Without at least one of the current loanees I don''t think we stand a chance of promotion as we don''t have the strength in depth. I really, really hope that everyone concerned is doing their utmost to sort things out in our favour. As I said in another thread, the not knowing is getting more and more unbearable with every passing day. For sure, buying Hucks or Crouch or Harper, or any combination of these three isn''t going to guarantee promotion, but not buying them, I believe, is going to help us towards a position beneath the play-off zone, just like last year, unless there are some more loan signings of the same calibre waiting in the wings. (Not likely, is it?) At least, as you say, we will have tried our best, and that is all us fans want, surely? We simply may not get another opportunity like this for years, so I would definitely say ''go for it''. PLEASE!

[gazzathegreat 0]

i can only speak for myself here, but i have been investing in this club for over thirty years, they have had enough of my money to buy a whole hucking team!!

it won''t go wrong, how can it, half way nearly through the season and we are second because of the loan players, if we keep hucks and crouch we will go up.

[Mook 0]

The only reason I got even slightly annoyed is this old "Mook is happy in this division" gem, which I''m not. Nor am I happy when Worthy makes a tactical error. But I am ready to understand that there are reasons why he makes his decisions (even if they''re not all clear to us now). There are reasons why we can''t just go throwing cash at players. There are reasons why we don''t discuss our transfer activity in public, there are reasons why Rivers doesn''t get a game, there are reasons why Easton sometimes does. As regards the transfers it matters not how dedicated we are, it only matters if the club have the money. Anyway, this has nothing to do with Hucks, I am a supporter of Norwich, and I will support a good NCFC manager. I can''t believe I''m on here having to defend him when we''re second. Unbelievable. And I can''t listen to this whole "we''re great fans" thing. I know supporters that have named their kids after the team, that have bought boxes at the ground, that have never missed a game home or away in 35 years etc etc AND these are Barnsley FANS!! Imagine what they have to go through!

[ca 1]

Mook,
You expect us to read and listen to your opinions but for some reason you dont feel we have the right to say how we feel.No-one on this thread has called themselves great fans,as you put it,but what we do have is the right to call ourselves passionate fans.You dont have to name your kids after the players,buy boxes at the ground or never miss a game to be passionate about your club.Passion, in case you havent experienced it, is about feelings and several of us on this board feel strongly that if we somehow kept our 3 loan players we would have a real chance of premier football next season.Nothing in life is guaranteed but being in second spot gives us a real chance of fulfilling our dreams.Without those 3 we feel our chance will be lost.
We have had a great season so far and we appreciate the efforts of all those involved but we are so close now, we must just go for it,its now or never.
Remember Mook,everyone is entitled to post their opinion and you must respect that.
P.S.When you do get to experience real passion you will understand what people like 1st wizard,snake pit rebel,gazza the great and myself are all about.

[Northern Yella 0]

I have to defend Mook, in my opinion, and it is only my opinion, it is very unfair to have a go at Worthington. He has been and still is a great manager for us, and no matter if we end up signing Huckerby, crouch and/or Harper, it will not be his final decision, that will rest with the board. He has taken this club on massive strides since he has come to the club and we all have something to dream about again.

I relate to a lot of the frustration and expectation of the fans at the moment. We all know that if all the loan signings go back to their clubs once their loan periods end we are going to be very lucky to get a playoff place, but will this really be Worthy''s fault? I don''t think so.

He as much as anyone wants to see the club progress and wants to be successful. He proved his managerial expertise by pursuading Hucks, Crouch and Harper to come on board at the start of the season, and we have collected the benefits because of this.

Yes, this could be a key couple of weeks in our history and I as much as anyone will be desperate for us to keep these key players, however, with the likes of Jarvis, Henderson and Joe Lewis coming through the future isn''t that bleak is it?

[gazzathegreat 0]

thanks diane, i was trying very hard to see the other point of view, all i know is on the 13th of December whatever happens i will be proud to watch Darren Huckerby play for our club, he and Peter Crouch and Kevin Harper have come in and lifted us to another level, which sadly we were unable to reach without them.

For that i will forever be grateful, as you say, passion is a force you cannot fight, and i for one don''t intend to, good or bad. As you say, we are all entitled to our opinion and I actually respect people who don''t hold the same one as me, if we all had the same thoughts and opinions this board would be dead, so good on you Mook.

Diane, how do you plan to celebrate the signings of Crouch and Hucks then?

Also, give another site a try, carrowroad.net/community, you will find a bunch of real football fans on there too. See you there.

[ZLF 274]

What a bizarre posting this series has been!

We are sitting 2nd in the league with as many points out of the last 5 games than any other side in the league and still we arent happy??? Please remember just over 3 years ago we were amongst the favourites for relegation. Who has achieved this – the fans on their own???

At some stage I have agreed with everyones comments on this topic.

Yes NW does appear to make some tactical disasters, which I have publicly questioned, however without a doubt HIS team has improved year on year and it is HIS side that sits second in the league. I agree that to criticise him now is ludicrous - wait to see what the end of the season brings. Most of what Worthy has done works - he has no lack of ambition. The loanees were HIS choices and HE has made them work well for the club. HIS record is not that of a lousy manager ( & you cant be lucky for 3+ years) - so leave him alone when things are going well – IMHO. We can all unite against him if he takes us mid table/ out of the play off race..

Yes - I would love some more open demonstration of ambition from the board. However again THEY HAVE delivered a period of sustained development and improved financial stability for the club following some very dark years. Few people can question the passion that Delia has shown for the club. And do remember who agreed to sign the loanees – not the fans but the board and they did this without a fanfare in the media over each step of the negotiations. Likewise the board should reconsider the alleged offer from Proton to fund some transfers.

Yes we would ALL love to keep Harps, Hucks & Crouch. However I like Mook want a club that my children can support in 5-10 years time and do not want them to go through a York, Oldham, Leeds type scenario as a result of my greed/impatience.

Yes - Div 1 is the most open for years, (we win 1 game in 4 & go up a place and teams from 12th up can make the play offs) however signing the 3 loan players only INCREASES our chances of getting promoted - under no circumstances does it guarantee us even a play off place - that has to be earned by delivering results over a full 46 match period - we are not even half way. Injuries, suspensions, lack of cover in defence and continued sh!t refs can still get in the way even if we keep the 3 loanees.

Yes Mook is right to be upset over having his ambition questioned. The mere fact that he is posting on this site to share his views shows that he is passionate and cares about his club. Please respect his views as much as you would like yours respected - no one thinks their views are wrong - however they are merely your own view and no less valid for that. Do continue to debate and share your views and arguments against anothers point of view but steer clear of doubting peoples passion – the regular posters on here clearly ALL have the club at hear. Insult Mook, or any other poster, and you make a mockery that we are great fans.

Yes we do have a set of fans to be proud off – however it is essential that we remain united behind the whole club, from chairman to players, whilst we remain in the driving seat – 2 weeks is a long time in the world of football transfers…

If we can be happy being 2nd in the table with a good looking side when will we be happy - only when we are relegated??? I think not.

I pray that we keep at least Crouch but if we don’t then I do have some faith that the management team do appreciate that this is a golden opportunity for us and will invest in to maintain out momentum – blind faith perhaps but they deserve our trust.

Rant over – please don’t let me down city!

[irishcanary 0]

I could not agree more, lets hope Mook and all the rest of the fans that lack ambition fill the 24000 seats when we are 14th in the league. One other point if we are only getting gates of 14000, post green, drury etc wont that put the club in finacial trouble

[Mook 0]

Yes, I will be there Irish canary. And I hope you will be too, as that what fans do. They support their team through thick and thin. I''m sorry Diane, as I seem to have upset you. I do know what passion is, and will always be passionate for my team. I just cannot believe that I am being questioned for backing our manager. Ok, so sometimes he makes some strange decisions, but don''t we all? I decided to take the bus this morning instead of the tube and having waited 40 mins for it to turn up, I then got off and walked the two and a half mile journey as it was so slow! I got to work drenched and 45 mins late. Now that''s a bad decision.

[a1canary 0]

woah there people! i think we need to take a step back and a few deep breaths! it''s pointless to go on here questioning each others ambition and hopes for the club. we all want the same thing, and that includes the board and the manager, but we all have different ideas about how to get it, that''s all. It''s ridiculous to start ranting on about how many games we''ve been to, how many years we''ve been members, how many kids we''ve got called adam, craig and malky, as if this somehow shows we''re bigger, better, bolder supporters than the next person. Does anyone here think they are bigger fans than the MWJ, Delia, Doncaster or the rest of the board? Delia was converted by her husband and hasn''t been a fan as long as many of us but so what? She''s still as desperate for us to do well and to go up as anyone.
The thing is, we''re all panicking because the loan situation doesn''t look too good and we''re worried about slipping back down the table. I feel sure that even if we lose the loan players we will still be getting more bodies in. We should have a better chance of attracting players to the club with our current league position and the fact that the rest of the league recognise we are a force in div 1. So far, we''ve done really well, lets just wait and see what happens in the next couple of weeks before moaning at the board, the manager etc and accusing them of this that and the other. They have done a good job with what they have had up to now, and that includes the last two seasons.
People need to realise - we just can not spend money we don''t have, nor borrow outside of our capabilities to service our debts. Those of you saying we should go out and grab the opportunity to sign x,y and z by gambling with money we can''t afford to borrow are being really naive. Have you already forgotten what happened to bradford, derby, binmen, leeds etc. You wouldn''t be so gung ho if we gambled like this and didn''t go up and found ourselves on the edge of existence. It''s EXACTLY the same gamble that all those clubs and more flirted with and failed with, every one of them. But now, if we follow their footsteps, we get docked 10 points and handed a one way ticket to division 2. It''s not worth it. When the new stand is built, we will have the opportunity to be third or fourth in the div 1 average attendance league, (we''re 8th now with one whole side of the stadium missing!). This will make us a genuine "big" club in div 1 and therefore a genuine contender for promotion from it. We haven''t been in 8 years, Cardiff included. We will then be able to afford more and pay more. I think the future is bright, even if we don''t go up this season and, yes, even if we lose some players by not doing so. There will be other players after them, just as i believe there will be other players after huckerby and crouch if they go.
I watch Mr Keys excited ramblings over the vide-printer on a saturday afternoon with as much hope and heart fluttering as anyone, especially at the moment, but we simply can''t gamble with our existence - it''s not worth it. Just imagine for a second, that the club was wound up, carrow road flattened entirely by wilson connolly, and we had no-one to follow. Is it worth risking this on one season when, by being a bit more financially astute, we will have the ability to launch genuine attempts at promotion in future years if we fail this year?

[First Wizard 0]

Woops, that Mook character is a little bit upset about this is''nt he?, Well firstly I don''t think I''ve personally insulted him yet and secondly, and sorry mate, I don''t really care!.

I have loved some managers of this club,ie McCaulley, Stringer, Saunders, Bond, Walker Mks 1 &2, and O''Neil, but Worthington aint in their class. Now if that makes Dianne (Does not always Moan OK!) Snake Pit Rebel, Gazza the Great and myself, guilty, well tough.

If we see something you can not, then according to you, we should give up and support someone else. Oh really Mook, who do you suggest then?, Ip###ch, Man U, come on get real.

We are just as comitted and passionate as you are, but perhaps we can still remember the days of ''total football'', BBC Match of the day''s words, not mine. and if we dare to speak out, abeit even in 2nd place, then you would have us beheaded, (ok I made that bit up!) but you get my drift.

Just wait till the trio depart, (as I now fear they will) then you''ll see that at the moment, this City team really aint all that you think it is, nor I''m afraid is the manager and some of the board.

Unlike you Mook, it seems, I would just love it, LOVE IT, If I and others are proved wrong!.

[First Wizard 0]

Woops, that Mook character is a little bit upset about this is''nt he?, Well firstly I don''t think I''ve personally insulted him/her YET, and secondly, and sorry mate, I don''t really care!.

I have loved some managers of this club,ie McCaulley, Stringer, Saunders, Bond, Walker Mks 1 &2, and O''Neil, but Worthington aint in their class. Now if that makes Dianne (Does not always Moan OK!) Snake Pit Rebel, Gazza the Great and myself, guilty, well tough.

If we see something you can not, then according to you, we should give up and support someone else. Oh really Mook, who do you suggest then?, Ip###ch, Man U, come on get real.

We are just as comitted and passionate as you are, but perhaps we can still remember the days of ''total football'', BBC Match of the day''s words, not mine. and if we dare to speak out, abeit even in 2nd place, then you would have us beheaded, (ok I made that bit up!) but you get my drift.

Just wait till the trio depart, (as I now fear they will) then you''ll see that at the moment, this City team really aint all that you think it is, nor I''m afraid is the manager and some of the board.

Unlike you Mook, it seems, I would just love it, LOVE IT, If I and others are proved wrong!.

[Mook 0]

It''s me you''ve insulted, it''s my football team and their manager. And I do take small offence to that, although I''m not crying quite yet.

And I CAN remember the total football days, of course, and I too am a big Brown/Stringer/Walker fan but I can remember getting stuffed 6-0 (was it Everton?) and various other under-performances even on the season we finished third. And I don''t remember people calling for the manager''s head then. So let''s treat NW with a bit of respect and do the same for him. We will get back to that level hopefully. Speak out all you like (as we all should) but don''t be OVER-critical, it''s not fair when we''re doing relatively well.

[Snake Pit Rebel 0]

Well don''t challenge our passion and commitment then Mook!!

At the end of the day we all desire the same result-PREMIERSHIP FOOTBALL!!

[John Boubepo 0]

I think it''s fair to say everybody on this board wants NCFC to be successful, we all have different views which stretch right across the risk taking spectrum - from the overcautious to the reckless being at the extremes of that spectrum, but all views are important and should be respected, after all we all share the same dream - Norwich in the Premiership!!

For what it''s worth, my view on NW, is, I appreciate he has done a relatively good job, especially if you compare our general position when he took over to where we are now.
But,I still and often feel that he regularly makes tactical mistakes and this is the worst bit - he doesn''t appear to learn from them, That worries me more than any other thing going on at the club right now.

As for Delia [and the board] she has a fine business mind and no doubt wants Norwich in the Premier league more than anybody. The rest of us can only speculate on how much money can realistically be raised, prised from individual bank accounts or borrowed from banks, I honestly believe all will be done that can be done.

[Pincer 0]

After spending the last hour reading this debate i''m now gonna have my say.

Nigel Worthington - I know everyone is entitled to their opinion on how we should play, who should start, who should be substituted, who should come of the bench to try and change the game etc , to be honest you will find this at every club in the country and let''s face it, if we''re all right and the manager''s wrong why aren''t we all employed as football league managers BUT when it comes to NW you just cannot argue with the man''s record since he took over. Look at where we were then (from the quality within the squad to the league position) to where we are now, there''s no comparison, and it''s all down to the manager. Let''s be realistic, we''re not going to play well every game, there will be games where i''m sure we''ll be extremely poor (Coventry springs to mind) BUT that will happen at every club. I just find it hard to stomach when we''re sitting second in the league (which i don''t believe is a false poistion) and people still slag off the manager, but like I said at the start, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

The board - I have absolutely no idea what''s going on behind the scenes and i''m sure no one else does either, what I do know is that they can see the difference the loan players have made, they''re not that stupid (I don''t think) and I, along with most fans, truly, TRULY believe that if the board gamble on Huckerby and Crouch it will pay off. Without them I feel a play off place is the best we can hope for. Come on board, lets gamble..........but it''s easy for me to say sitting here coz i''m not comtemplating gambling on the club''s already slim funds.

[ca 1]

Mook,
Don''t worry you havent upset me ,I enjoy debating with you.Wouldn''t it be boring if we all had the same opinion.

[Carrow89 0]

There appears to be some pretty daft assumptions here.

Who said all three players were for sale/loaned if the funds could be found ?

And how short do we leave ourselves to achieve that supposed aim ?

Robert Green gets injured. Where''s the money for an experienced back up keeper. ?
Likewise Huckerby.

The suggestion that Green, Drury and others would leave in a huff is stupid. They will go if/when an offer is made that proves better than anything the club can match not when they decide they''ve had enough. Or did Beckham leave Man Utd because he felt the board didn''t show enough ambition.

Given the loss of income from ITV Digital deal, the archeology stuff and the now reduced capacity I think the board have shown remarkable ambition and investment.

Spending £400,000 on 3 month''s wages shows either commitment or stupidity. I would suggest the former with the latter being shown by those on here who think that running NCFC is akin spending all your weeks pocket money on one big toy.

It was the board who who brought in the loanees - credit them with the sense to have worked out all the implications and possibilities before they embarked on that course.

As to former managers and tactics perhaps someone would like to comment on John Bond''s team selection for the 1975 League Cup final.