Worthy Out Petition results embarresing!

[Loyal fan 0]

[quote user="Silver Canary"]

Loyal Fan - "is the type of support that we can do without."

I do''nt think thats fair. just cos im young does''nt mean that my views are worthless and i try hard to get worthy out. ive done lots of posts against him!![/quote]

You might think that your views have some worth, Silver, but I suspect that you are in  a minority of one. Your age, does not necessarily count against you, however, it does diminish the likelyhood that you will have anything worth saying.

[Loyal fan 0]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]This is a sad thread and a success only for the underhand tactics of sc - respect to you in acheiving your goal on this one.

Loyal - how much more targetted do you want this poll?  Its not an on the high street effort as meeky and others have pointed out it is a survey of NCFC fans as to whether they want worthy out or not.  Match day is the only place the signatures are collected and all fans have an opinion one way are another.  This suggets as secure a polling audience as you could  hope for.

Your knowledge of statistical sampling methodology is as redundant as you claim my polling awareness is - with under 25000 people at the game a collection of 1000 signature is statistically very significant and indicative of a genuine reflection the population - the margin of error is very small.   Try a google search.

As far as petition manipulation again its a well known fact that ALL hand signe dpetitions contain duplicates;  just as someting like more than 50% of charity marathon runners tomorrow pocket some of the charitable contributions collected - sad but true.

As always with lies, damn lies and stats people chose which ones they ignore and which they chose to beleive according to their own belief mechanisms.  Whether you believe this one or not will not be swayed by what I say and that I accept - but the petition is already statistically relevant no matter how much the attempts to bad mouth try.[/quote]

"Your knowledge of statistical sampling methodology is as redundant as you claim my polling awareness is - with under 25000 people at the game a collection of 1000 signature is statistically very significant and indicative of a genuine reflection the population - the margin of error is very small.   Try a google search."

I am sorry but this is simply not the case, but as this is something that I am involved in for my profession I have to correct you. When marketing firms and opinion pollsters select (please note the word) candidates to interview, they do so very carefully. The poll done by the campaign is "self-selected" and not statistically representative of anything other than their own views. You cannot infer from such a methodology that they are typical of NCFC fans as a whole.

For example, it is probably likely that Worthy Out supporters are more likely to vote than Worthy In people. Thus the sample is not typical of the whole population and not statistically relevant.

If you get 1000 people indicating worthy out, all this indicates is that 1000 don’t want Worthy. In fact, because of the multiple voting, it doesn’t even indicate that!

You and others at the Worthy Out campaign are well meaning, I do not doubt that but your understanding of this particular topic is so weak that your efforts are bringing discredit to the very end that you are seeking to advance. Your comments on a google search sum it up really - you are well intentioned amateurs hopefully out of your depth, trying to find out as you go along. There is no shame in that but it simply is not your field of expertise and consequently not an avenue that the Worthy Out campaign should continue to explore - you are making the campaign look silly.

I think you and you fellow campaigners should continue your splendid efforts in areas where you can have greater effectiveness and frankly, require less expertise.

[Loyal fan 0]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]This is a sad thread and a success only for the underhand tactics of sc - respect to you in acheiving your goal on this one.

Loyal - how much more targetted do you want this poll?  Its not an on the high street effort as meeky and others have pointed out it is a survey of NCFC fans as to whether they want worthy out or not.  Match day is the only place the signatures are collected and all fans have an opinion one way are another.  This suggets as secure a polling audience as you could  hope for.

Your knowledge of statistical sampling methodology is as redundant as you claim my polling awareness is - with under 25000 people at the game a collection of 1000 signature is statistically very significant and indicative of a genuine reflection the population - the margin of error is very small.   Try a google search.

As far as petition manipulation again its a well known fact that ALL hand signe dpetitions contain duplicates;  just as someting like more than 50% of charity marathon runners tomorrow pocket some of the charitable contributions collected - sad but true.

As always with lies, damn lies and stats people chose which ones they ignore and which they chose to beleive according to their own belief mechanisms.  Whether you believe this one or not will not be swayed by what I say and that I accept - but the petition is already statistically relevant no matter how much the attempts to bad mouth try.[/quote]

"Your knowledge of statistical sampling methodology is as redundant as you claim my polling awareness is - with under 25000 people at the game a collection of 1000 signature is statistically very significant and indicative of a genuine reflection the population - the margin of error is very small.   Try a google search."

I am sorry but this is simply not the case, but as this is something that I am involved in for my profession I have to correct you. When marketing firms and opinion pollsters select (please note the word) candidates to interview, they do so very carefully. The poll done by the campaign is "self-selected" and not statistically representative of anything other than their own views. You cannot infer from such a methodology that they are typical of NCFC fans as a whole.

For example, it is probably likely that Worthy Out supporters are more likely to vote than Worthy In people. Thus the sample is not typical of the whole population and not statistically relevant.

If you get 1000 people indicating worthy out, all this indicates is that 1000 don’t want Worthy. In fact, because of the multiple voting, it doesn’t even indicate that!

You and others at the Worthy Out campaign are well meaning, I do not doubt that but your understanding of this particular topic is so weak that your efforts are bringing discredit to the very end that you are seeking to advance. Your comments on a google search sum it up really - you are well intentioned amateurs hopefully out of your depth, trying to find out as you go along. There is no shame in that but it simply is not your field of expertise and consequently not an avenue that the Worthy Out campaign should continue to explore - you are making the campaign look silly.

I think you and you fellow campaigners should continue your splendid efforts in areas where you can have greater effectiveness and frankly, require less expertise.

[Getting off the fence 0]

[quote user="Silver Canary"]

Loyal Fan - "is the type of support that we can do without."

I do''nt think thats fair. just cos im young does''nt mean that my views are worthless and i try hard to get worthy out. ive done lots of posts against him!!

[/quote]

Rather sad that you think that this is what a loyal fan does Silver!

[Getting off the fence 0]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

This is a sad thread and a success only for the underhand tactics of sc - respect to you in acheiving your goal on this one.

Loyal - how much more targetted do you want this poll?  Its not an on the high street effort as meeky and others have pointed out it is a survey of NCFC fans as to whether they want worthy out or not.  Match day is the only place the signatures are collected and all fans have an opinion one way are another.  This suggets as secure a polling audience as you could  hope for.

Your knowledge of statistical sampling methodology is as redundant as you claim my polling awareness is - with under 25000 people at the game a collection of 1000 signature is statistically very significant and indicative of a genuine reflection the population - the margin of error is very small.   Try a google search.

As far as petition manipulation again its a well known fact that ALL hand signe dpetitions contain duplicates;  just as someting like more than 50% of charity marathon runners tomorrow pocket some of the charitable contributions collected - sad but true.

As always with lies, damn lies and stats people chose which ones they ignore and which they chose to beleive according to their own belief mechanisms.  Whether you believe this one or not will not be swayed by what I say and that I accept - but the petition is already statistically relevant no matter how much the attempts to bad mouth try.

[/quote]

"with under 25000 people at the game a collection of 1000 signature is statistically very significant and indicative of a genuine reflection the population - the margin of error is very small."

No, Zipper it is not. I like thousands of other fans that support Worthy will have nothing to do with your petition (it is NOT a poll whatever you pretend)! I am an ordinary family man like the majority of Norwich fans - I go with both my parents and my children - and it used to be a nice family activity. Why should I run any risks running the gauntlet of vitriol that a pro-Worthy vote may cause. Why should I risk the safety and comfort of my family for a rigged petiton?

We used to be a friendly family of a club but people like you have spoilt that. Just leave us alone and let us enjoy the football that cost me a great deal of money. I have sat on the fence too long - your recent antics have changed that and I am sure that thousands of others feel the same. Some of the Worthy Out antics have been a disgrace!

[LinkNR9 0]

"Why should I run any risks running the gauntlet of vitriol that a pro-Worthy vote may cause. Why should I risk the safety and comfort of my family for a rigged petiton?"

What hysterical nonsense - please get a grip! Are you Skipper in disguise?  

What is this ''gauntlet of vitriol''? I presume you mean the dissenting voices that just happen to disagree with you. The Worthy Outers have made their protests at the ground / arranged the petitions with good humour and caused no potential safety issues whatsoever. Please would you tell me how your safety has been threatened? The only vitriol I know of is that rabid female KTF who screeched obscenities at WO''s and their children - very articulate and mature - at one of the first protests.  

The reason that a substantial part of the crowd booed and shouted ''Worthy Out'' at the QPR game and others is because they are sick and tired of the manager and his inept hoofball tactics and transfer dealings. Like you, I pay a lot of money for our season tickets; there is no way that I will meekly sit through the dross that has been served up on the pitch and continue to support this appalling manager.

"...people like you have spoilt that. Just leave us alone..." That''s a coincidence, because people like you have done the same for me and many thousands of others by continuing to support Worthington.

[TheManWhoSoldDerveld 0]

[quote user="Loyal fan"]Stuff about statistics[/quote]

Why not put your expertise to use then? If you are convinced that people who want Worthy Out are not the majority, suggest ways that they can create a petition that stands up to statistical scrutiny. How exactly would you suggest an accurate opinion poll of Norwich fans should be carried out? If you can come up with improvements, we get a more accurate picture, and if you can''t, well what the hell are you complaining about.

[beelsie 0]

SC!! Loyal fan, and every type of fan are necessary to NCFC, whether for or against Worthy.  Loyal Fan!!! In my book, knowledge and experience equate with age in unique way. To be academic in ones approach need not preclude one from having a relevant contribution on these boards, and if proposals and views on any situation are put to the readers with manners and politeness they should be received in the same manner.   IMHO, to assume that one contributor who may be senior to the norm in terms of age is unlikely to have anything worth saying is, may I suggest, likely, to display arrogance/ignorance rather than good debating qualities.

[beelsie 0]

Loyal fan, I do notice a touch of what I would term expertitis, this, followed by a dose of pollitis for a cure all effect that hither too has resulted in Nations swamped with a disease called data collecting, as did Nero while Rome burned.  There are many people out there who are getting their wages, sorry/ fees by this dubious pursuit, much of this information  on many pretexts, has led us to the state of financial and moral decline that has gripped this once proud Nation.  I start from way back when you earned your money by plying your productive skills in industry/ farming etc, following a useful pursuit, and then saved/invested your money in something tangible using what you saw as a reason for carrying on in whatever pursuit you had chosen.  There are many drug companies out there who rely wholly on dubious research that has led them into the direction of Thalidomide etc and may I repeat it, collected by experts in their fields who may I say should never be questioned especially when it relates to the professions like the Lawyers and the justice system, and medicine.  Form your individual ideas on what you see to be so with your own eyes,  use your own common sense deciding your next move, always be wary about the answers given to a question, especially when it is personal or of a financial nature.  Make your move, then rely on lady luck.

[huck tastic<IMG src="http:new.pinkun.comforumsimagesline.gif"><BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Bryan Hamilton could turn this around...<BR><FONT> 0]

[quote user="Getting off the fence"][quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

This is a sad thread and a success only for the underhand tactics of sc - respect to you in acheiving your goal on this one.

Loyal - how much more targetted do you want this poll?  Its not an on the high street effort as meeky and others have pointed out it is a survey of NCFC fans as to whether they want worthy out or not.  Match day is the only place the signatures are collected and all fans have an opinion one way are another.  This suggets as secure a polling audience as you could  hope for.

Your knowledge of statistical sampling methodology is as redundant as you claim my polling awareness is - with under 25000 people at the game a collection of 1000 signature is statistically very significant and indicative of a genuine reflection the population - the margin of error is very small.   Try a google search.

As far as petition manipulation again its a well known fact that ALL hand signe dpetitions contain duplicates;  just as someting like more than 50% of charity marathon runners tomorrow pocket some of the charitable contributions collected - sad but true.

As always with lies, damn lies and stats people chose which ones they ignore and which they chose to beleive according to their own belief mechanisms.  Whether you believe this one or not will not be swayed by what I say and that I accept - but the petition is already statistically relevant no matter how much the attempts to bad mouth try.

[/quote]

"with under 25000 people at the game a collection of 1000 signature is statistically very significant and indicative of a genuine reflection the population - the margin of error is very small."

No, Zipper it is not. I like thousands of other fans that support Worthy will have nothing to do with your petition (it is NOT a poll whatever you pretend)! I am an ordinary family man like the majority of Norwich fans - I go with both my parents and my children - and it used to be a nice family activity. Why should I run any risks running the gauntlet of vitriol that a pro-Worthy vote may cause. Why should I risk the safety and comfort of my family for a rigged petiton?

We used to be a friendly family of a club but people like you have spoilt that. Just leave us alone and let us enjoy the football that cost me a great deal of money. I have sat on the fence too long - your recent antics have changed that and I am sure that thousands of others feel the same. Some of the Worthy Out antics have been a disgrace!

[/quote]

Jeez...calm down Mr. Fence...I''m sure those wicked Worthy Outers don''t really want to eat your children...

[Getting off the fence 0]

[quote user="LinkNR9"]

"Why should I run any risks running the gauntlet of vitriol that a pro-Worthy vote may cause. Why should I risk the safety and comfort of my family for a rigged petiton?"

What hysterical nonsense - please get a grip! Are you Skipper in disguise?  

What is this ''gauntlet of vitriol''? I presume you mean the dissenting voices that just happen to disagree with you. The Worthy Outers have made their protests at the ground / arranged the petitions with good humour and caused no potential safety issues whatsoever. Please would you tell me how your safety has been threatened? The only vitriol I know of is that rabid female KTF who screeched obscenities at WO''s and their children - very articulate and mature - at one of the first protests.  

The reason that a substantial part of the crowd booed and shouted ''Worthy Out'' at the QPR game and others is because they are sick and tired of the manager and his inept hoofball tactics and transfer dealings. Like you, I pay a lot of money for our season tickets; there is no way that I will meekly sit through the dross that has been served up on the pitch and continue to support this appalling manager.

"...people like you have spoilt that. Just leave us alone..." That''s a coincidence, because people like you have done the same for me and many thousands of others by continuing to support Worthington.

[/quote]

Do you have children, Link? If you did you know that they find distressing the sights of adult arguing in the way that we saw on Monday. I don''t know where you have been if you think that all of the nonsense inside the ground has been "good humoured!" The atmospeghere has been unpleasant, and at times agressive, for some weeks now.

Your shouting and booing upsets many thousands of people whether you like it or not. It is not what they come to matches for. I don''t understand how my refusal to bray ignorantly upsets you. If you want to boo and protest do so when you will not spoil the afternoon for others that don''t like it instead of inflicting your views upon us.

[Silver Canary 0]

[quote user="Getting off the fence"][quote user="Silver Canary"]

Loyal Fan - "is the type of support that we can do without."

I do''nt think thats fair. just cos im young does''nt mean that my views are worthless and i try hard to get worthy out. ive done lots of posts against him!!

[/quote]

Rather sad that you think that this is what a loyal fan does Silver!

[/quote]

I think its loyal cos it helps get rid of worthy + i protest at the ground. what do you do that makes you loyal and why do you think that you can challenge my loyalty!

[TheManWhoSoldDerveld 0]

[quote user="Getting off the fence"]Do you have children, Link? If you did you know that they find distressing the sights of adult arguing in the way that we saw on Monday. I don''t know where you have been if you think that all of the nonsense inside the ground has been "good humoured!" The atmospeghere has been unpleasant, and at times agressive, for some weeks now.

Your shouting and booing upsets many thousands of people whether you like it or not. It is not what they come to matches for. I don''t understand how my refusal to bray ignorantly upsets you. If you want to boo and protest do so when you will not spoil the afternoon for others that don''t like it instead of inflicting your views upon us.[/quote]

SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!

Sometimes upsetting things need to be said, its your decision to be offended by it. I don''t particularly enjoy the fact Norwich fans are arguing with each other, booing the manager and the players, but what else can be done? People striving for a change at the club have tried pretty much EVERY other measure to get their point across, and still the board sticks their collective heads in the sand.

You don''t have any divine right to not be offended, or to tell people what they can or can''t do in the ground, provided its lawful.

[Mello Yello 2,291]

Welcome to the ''Pink''un'' forum "Getting off the fence?"...........Maybe you should re-invent yourself as "Getting off your high horse!" Damage limitation exercise for Nigel''s appreciation society is it? Back up your ''hot off the press'' claims, and I would probably agree with you.........Not!

During and after the QPR game there was: ''free for all fightin'' in the Barclay refreshment bars, between, ''I saw them play at the Nest y''know!'' Grandpappy Joe Butts, who''s a devout ''Worthy Inner'' against ''Pioneer for managerial change'' Uncle Bill Skint who''s an ''Outer!''..... Windmillin''  fisticuffs between ''Anti Delia'' Blyth Jex Form 3 and the ''Pro-Board''  Hellesdon High School Prefects ''Crew'' who are really goin'' for it in the  aisle''s of the bloodsoaked battlefield that is the Jarrold Stand! Anarchy in the Cathedral lounge......false teeth, custard creams and sticky humbugs being thrown with venom at the disgruntled fence-sitters!.... Tepid cups of rancid coffee and gross dishwater tea - poured over  the ''tweed cap wearin'' "Veteran ''life insurance salesman'' Percy Trussle" and ''gout ridden'' "Pig farmer (ret''d) Edgar ''the oink'' Fuddle. (both Robert Chase and Nigel fans). 

War has broken out at Carrow Road! The hooligan element of the under 12''s Norwich Chapter of  "The NAB"  (Nurse Assaulting Brigade) barricade themselves in the "Red Cross" treatment room, and threaten to apply a tight tourniquet to the ankles of the duty staff if  ''Worthy don''t walk!''..........."Bazzer Skipper mumbles for calm over the ground PA system, and threatens to call in the Salvation Army if order isn''t restored!

Yes "Getting off the fence?" I''ve maybe invented a slight exaggeration of events at Carrow ''Bloodbath'' Road.......But you started it chum!

I''m a Father of  Four by the way.........and I''ve not heard or seen, ''Jack Schitt'' of what you''re claiming!......

[Getting off the fence 0]

BlueScreenError - "You don''t have any divine right to not be offended, or to tell people what they can or can''t do in the ground, provided its lawful."

I don''t claim divine right, just ask for a little consideration. Is this too much to ask, or do you claim the divine right to upset everybody.

If you want to protest, why do you have to do it around those that don''t like it? We have as many rights as you, you know!

[ZLF 274]

Professional pollsters - like me having lived at my current address for 9 years and getting a call from Mori yesterday about the elderly previous occupiers habits, or being stopped in the streets because you are between 30-45, or the accuracy of election day poll predictions. As a professional pollster you will be well aware that any survey will hit a relevancy if the survey is big enough for the general population even if randomly generated

(Sadly my life has not turned out well either, as well as being ardently fan city, (with its decades of ups and downs) I also have professional experience of information analysis and statistical management - I am hoping to get up the food chain to become an estate agent - but at least I am not a football agent or lawyer[;)]) 

As I said there are lies, damn lies and statistics and as normal people will chose to accept or deny them with the appropriate pinh of salt as suits their personal beliefs.. 

[huck tastic<IMG src="http:new.pinkun.comforumsimagesline.gif"><BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Bryan Hamilton could turn this around...<BR><FONT> 0]

[quote user="Getting off the fence"]

BlueScreenError - "You don''t have any divine right to not be offended, or to tell people what they can or can''t do in the ground, provided its lawful."

I don''t claim divine right, just ask for a little consideration. Is this too much to ask, or do you claim the divine right to upset everybody.

If you want to protest, why do you have to do it around those that don''t like it? We have as many rights as you, you know!

[/quote]

Yes, brilliant Mr Fence!

In future all protests against anything should only take place secretly, undercover, at a destination far away from all other people...and even then only if full written permission has been received from all relevant authorities...

That''ll show ''em...

 

[Getting off the fence 0]

Hucktastic - "In future all protests against anything should only take place secretly, undercover, at a destination far away from all other people...and even then only if full written permission has been received from all relevant authorities..."

I am tempted to say that most Worthy Out protests could take place in a large living room but will avoid this cheapshot.

No  - your protests can be public, next to, or at the ground and without any form of permission. you can get the radio/ newspapers/ television to be present, put them on a website, take out advertisements in the national press.... My request is simply that you do not inflict them upon the majority of fans that do not agree.

You can have them before - but nobody seems to want to attend ("why waste valuable drinking time perhaps?") or afterwards (but perhaps the strength of feeling is such that nobody will be bothered to wait) - just don''t spoil the game for the decent majority.

You can have stay aways, ticket boycotts, letter campaigns to the press, protest marches, (fixed) petitions, anything - just don''t spoil the game for the decent majority.

If you did either of these things the board would be aware of your feelings - they would be aware of all the thousands/ hundreds/ tens who share your opinions. But this it seems is not good enough - you seem to want to inflict your opinions upon those that disagree with you.

Why is this? Could it possibly be that you know that only a minority share your opinions?

Please - if you hate going so much don''t - ask for a refund on your season ticket - anything - just leave us alone!

[We need a Manager 0]

Getting off the fence if you dont like the atmosphere stay away its that simple . Do we really need you few ktf at the ground anyway ???????

[Loyal fan 0]

ZIPPER - "Professional pollsters - like me having lived at my current address for 9 years and getting a call from Mori yesterday about the elderly previous occupiers habits"

Exactly - they work from a list - called a sampling frame - these are expensive and hence get out of date. this is caled a random sample.

ZIPPER - "being stopped in the streets because you are between 30-45"

A quota sample - a quota is designed that fits the characteristics of the population as a whole.

Zipper - "the accuracy of election day poll predictions"

Accurate within the statistical margin of error - normally +/- 2%.

Zipper, you either know this and are trying to mislead people, which I fear is the case or are unaware. If this is the case, I am not surprised that you no longer work in the field. If it is you that is providing the Worthy Out campaign with its statistical knowledge, it only reinforces my belief that you are damaging our cause with your amateur bunglings.

GIVE UP the POLL - you are making us look stupid. The case against Worthy is strong enough without having to fiddle statistics. We should be concentrating on ore direct actions, not wasting energy on a poll that everybody knows id fiddled!

[Loyal fan 0]

[quote user="Nigels Tic-Tacs"]Getting off the fence if you dont like the atmosphere stay away its that simple . Do we really need you few ktf at the ground anyway ???????[/quote]

This is a far more sensible way to procede. It is direct action that will help us be rid of Worthington. Let us not waste our efforts outside the ground but concentrate instead on forcing the issue within it.

[Maverick 0]

[quote user="Nigels Tic-Tacs"]Getting off the fence if you dont like the atmosphere stay away its that simple . Do we really need you few ktf at the ground anyway ???????[/quote]

Once we''re in the ground all differences should be put aside and for 90 minutes get behind the team and support the team to a win.

That is,after all,the point of a game of football isn''t it ?

 

[ZLF 274]

I chose to no longer have anything to do with it - most duplicitous role and demoralising role I have ever had. 

Is it being manipulated?  We have one game playing stirrer with his own agenda claiming to have done so when the collectors state there has been none - at the moment I know which I trust more.  

I am not providing any statistical input to the worthyout.co.uk campaign and am no more than an interested observer in its activities.

I have never been keen on surveys of this type because of their inaccuracies (and said as such to the worthyout.co.uk team hen the idea was muted) and ability to be manipulated, but that is a generic problem with any survey, not this one in particular.  This one DOES stand up as well as any poll statistically.    

[TheManWhoSoldDerveld 0]

[quote user="Loyal fan"]GIVE UP the POLL - you are making us look stupid. The case against Worthy is strong enough without having to fiddle statistics. We should be concentrating on ore direct actions, not wasting energy on a poll that everybody knows id fiddled![/quote]

Apologies for the tone of my earlier post, I figured you wanted Worthy to stay. You know what you are talking about, so how many people would you say are needed and what better method could be implimented for an accurate poll?

The board ignores protests, ignores letters, marches, I think it would be much harder for them to ignore a properly conducted poll.

[TheManWhoSoldDerveld 0]

[quote user="Getting off the fence"]I am tempted to say that most Worthy Out protests could take place in a large living room but will avoid this cheapshot. [/quote]
Yeah well avoided. You use more ad hominem''s in your arguments than the very people you attempting to parody.

[quote]No  - your protests can be public, next to, or at the ground and without any form of permission. you can get the radio/ newspapers/ television to be present, put them on a website, take out advertisements in the national press.... My request is simply that you do not inflict them upon the majority of fans that do not agree. [/quote]
All of what you said has been attempted and completely ignored. I''m not neccessarily saying Worthy should have been sacked immedietly after one protest, but some admittance of mistakes and the utter failure that is this season would be nice.  

I''d also disagree with your assertion that you are in the majority.

[quote]You can have them before - but nobody seems to want to attend ("why waste valuable drinking time perhaps?") or afterwards (but perhaps the strength of feeling is such that nobody will be bothered to wait) - just don''t spoil the game for the decent majority.[/quote]
Don''t put words in others mouths, just because your tolerance to offence is so low doesn''t mean everyone else''s is. Stop caring so much about other people''s actions that you can''t change.

[quote]You can have stay aways, ticket boycotts, letter campaigns to the press, protest marches, (fixed) petitions, anything - just don''t spoil the game for the decent majority.[/quote]
Again, I see no evidence that you are in the majority. All of these apart from ''stay aways'' have been attempted, and ignored. The very reason this Worthy Out campaign is getting to the level of vitriol it is is because the fans believe the board/management team is not taking them seriously.

[quote]If you did either of these things the board would be aware of your feelings - they would be aware of all the thousands/ hundreds/ tens who share your opinions.[/quote]
These things have been done.

[quote]But this it seems is not good enough - you seem to want to inflict your opinions upon those that disagree with you.[/quote]
Whats wrong with that? You can''t go around never saying anything that someone might disagree with, don''t be such a pansy. Why not learn to deal with people who hold differing opinions rather than wanting them to stop.

[quote]Why is this? Could it possibly be that you know that only a minority share your opinions?[/quote]
Got any evidence you''re in the majority?

[quote]Please - if you hate going so much don''t - ask for a refund on your season ticket - anything - just leave us alone![/quote]
You know this argument works just as well for the people you are arguing against yeah?

[huck tastic<IMG src="http:new.pinkun.comforumsimagesline.gif"><BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Bryan Hamilton could turn this around...<BR><FONT> 0]

[quote user="Getting off the fence"]

Hucktastic - "In future all protests against anything should only take place secretly, undercover, at a destination far away from all other people...and even then only if full written permission has been received from all relevant authorities..."

I am tempted to say that most Worthy Out protests could take place in a large living room but will avoid this cheapshot.

No  - your protests can be public, next to, or at the ground and without any form of permission. you can get the radio/ newspapers/ television to be present, put them on a website, take out advertisements in the national press.... My request is simply that you do not inflict them upon the majority of fans that do not agree.

You can have them before - but nobody seems to want to attend ("why waste valuable drinking time perhaps?") or afterwards (but perhaps the strength of feeling is such that nobody will be bothered to wait) - just don''t spoil the game for the decent majority.

You can have stay aways, ticket boycotts, letter campaigns to the press, protest marches, (fixed) petitions, anything - just don''t spoil the game for the decent majority.

If you did either of these things the board would be aware of your feelings - they would be aware of all the thousands/ hundreds/ tens who share your opinions. But this it seems is not good enough - you seem to want to inflict your opinions upon those that disagree with you.

Why is this? Could it possibly be that you know that only a minority share your opinions?

Please - if you hate going so much don''t - ask for a refund on your season ticket - anything - just leave us alone!

[/quote]

My word, you do like to bandy around words like majority a lot, truth is no one really knows though do they? There''s clearly a wide spectrum of opinion, and  an equally wide range of ways of expressing that opinion...you would have to be very simple indeed to believe that only the relatively small number of people who attended the protests before matches, or even during matches, represents any kind of accurate guide...

Oh, and are you suggesting that everyone who doesn''t agree with you spends their time drinking? Can''t the rest of us be ''decent'' too? Geez it must be a mighty fine view up there from the moral high ground, Mr. Fence...If only the rest of us could stay sober long enough to scramble up there too... 

 

[Loyal fan 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"]

Welcome to the ''Pink''un'' forum "Getting off the fence?"...........Maybe you should re-invent yourself as "Getting off your high horse!" Damage limitation exercise for Nigel''s appreciation society is it? Back up your ''hot off the press'' claims, and I would probably agree with you.........Not!

During and after the QPR game there was: ''free for all fightin'' in the Barclay refreshment bars, between, ''I saw them play at the Nest y''know!'' Grandpappy Joe Butts, who''s a devout ''Worthy Inner'' against ''Pioneer for managerial change'' Uncle Bill Skint who''s an ''Outer!''..... Windmillin''  fisticuffs between ''Anti Delia'' Blyth Jex Form 3 and the ''Pro-Board''  Hellesdon High School Prefects ''Crew'' who are really goin'' for it in the  aisle''s of the bloodsoaked battlefield that is the Jarrold Stand! Anarchy in the Cathedral lounge......false teeth, custard creams and sticky humbugs being thrown with venom at the disgruntled fence-sitters!.... Tepid cups of rancid coffee and gross dishwater tea - poured over  the ''tweed cap wearin'' "Veteran ''life insurance salesman'' Percy Trussle" and ''gout ridden'' "Pig farmer (ret''d) Edgar ''the oink'' Fuddle. (both Robert Chase and Nigel fans). 

War has broken out at Carrow Road! The hooligan element of the under 12''s Norwich Chapter of  "The NAB"  (Nurse Assaulting Brigade) barricade themselves in the "Red Cross" treatment room, and threaten to apply a tight tourniquet to the ankles of the duty staff if  ''Worthy don''t walk!''..........."Bazzer Skipper mumbles for calm over the ground PA system, and threatens to call in the Salvation Army if order isn''t restored!

Yes "Getting off the fence?" I''ve maybe invented a slight exaggeration of events at Carrow ''Bloodbath'' Road.......But you started it chum!

I''m a Father of  Four by the way.........and I''ve not heard or seen, ''Jack Schitt'' of what you''re claiming!......

[/quote]

I am pleased for you and your family that you have not had to face the upsetting scenes that many of us have. My only caveat is that if you had, you may have adopted a more reasonable outlook. Many of us, however, have faced an unpleasant and agressive atmosphere, which is why we have tired of the Worthy Out antics.

[Loyal fan 0]

[quote user="Nigels Tic-Tacs"]Getting off the fence if you dont like the atmosphere stay away its that simple . Do we really need you few ktf at the ground anyway ???????[/quote]

There is a rather curious logic here. Those that want to try to enjoy the match should stay away but those that are determined not to should go. Just explain why you feel that you have the right to damage my enjoment becuase of your beliefs.

There are many ways in which you can protest, but your one tactic seems to be to spoil the afternoon for decent people. Why do''nt you organise a massive protest (perhaps 50?) before the game or you could all stay away and write names on the petition (sorry poll).

[Loyal fan 0]

Huck tastic - "My word, you do like to bandy around words like majority a lot, truth is no one really knows though do they? There''s clearly a wide spectrum of opinion, and  an equally wide range of ways of expressing that opinion...you would have to be very simple indeed to believe that only the relatively small number of people who attended the protests before matches, or even during matches, represents any kind of accurate guide...

Oh, and are you suggesting that everyone who doesn''t agree with you spends their time drinking? Can''t the rest of us be ''decent'' too? Geez it must be a mighty fine view up there from the moral high ground, Mr. Fence...If only the rest of us could stay sober long enough to scramble up there too... "

You are right Huck, I should not have said that about drinking - of course a lot of the rest can be "decent" to. I apologise for this.

However, I would say that some of the arguments I saw were alcohol fuelled and I am at a loss to understand why the support for the protests is so low, if support for the movement is said to be so high.

[Silver Canary 0]

[quote user="Loyal fan"]Huck tastic - "My word, you do like to bandy around words like majority a lot, truth is no one really knows though do they? There''s clearly a wide spectrum of opinion, and  an equally wide range of ways of expressing that opinion...you would have to be very simple indeed to believe that only the relatively small number of people who attended the protests before matches, or even during matches, represents any kind of accurate guide...

Oh, and are you suggesting that everyone who doesn''t agree with you spends their time drinking? Can''t the rest of us be ''decent'' too? Geez it must be a mighty fine view up there from the moral high ground, Mr. Fence...If only the rest of us could stay sober long enough to scramble up there too... "

You are right Huck, I should not have said that about drinking - of course a lot of the rest can be "decent" to. I apologise for this.

However, I would say that some of the arguments I saw were alcohol fuelled and I am at a loss to understand why the support for the protests is so low, if support for the movement is said to be so high.

[/quote]

simple most of us have got better things to do than hang around - we still wa''nt worthy out tho and make this clare during games!