The news we have all been waiting for is here

[cambridgeshire canary 7,932]

 

Edited November 21, 2024 by cambridgeshire canary

[Google Bot 3,995]

A very long Long period hopefully over.

[chicken 3,138]

Need to get a new contract out of him before we can all truly relax a bit. January only just around the corner... 

[Feedthewolf 5,931]

16 minutes ago, chicken said:

Need to get a new contract out of him before we can all truly relax a bit. January only just around the corner... 

Yep, that's the elephant in the room. With Long contracted until 2027, the thought of him being our regular first choice is unpalatable at best. If Angus decides to leave, it's vital that we invest in a commanding, confident keeper with excellent distribution to replace him.

[Capt. Pants 5,152]

I was rather hoping for some good news on contracts during the international break, particularly Gunn and Sainz. All gone a bit quiet and I would be surprised if both are here next season should be fail to get promotion. 

I suspect Gunn will see if and what offers his agent can come up with in January.

At least we should have a more competitive bench for Saturday!

[chicken 3,138]

6 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I was rather hoping for some good news on contracts during the international break, particularly Gunn and Sainz. All gone a bit quiet and I would be surprised if both are here next season should be fail to get promotion. 

I suspect Gunn will see if and what offers his agent can come up with in January.

At least we should have a more competitive bench for Saturday!

Will all be outside of England, so I suspect he would wait until the summer if that's the plan. Although some enticing contracts might be offered from elsewhere, the main direction I can see them coming from is Scotland. He'll be 29 in January and no doubt looking at potentially the last well paying contract of his career.

Although decent enough to do a job in the premier league, I'm not sure many clubs that are stable in the top tier would want to bring him in as a first choice. 

[chicken 3,138]

10 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Yep, that's the elephant in the room. With Long contracted until 2027, the thought of him being our regular first choice is unpalatable at best. If Angus decides to leave, it's vital that we invest in a commanding, confident keeper with excellent distribution to replace him.

I feel a bit conflicted about Gunn. At this level he's certainly a good goalkeeper, and he's good enough to be part of promotion pushing sides. Is he Premier League level? He struggled to push out Krul. He's nearing 29 and we have been the only club to regularly play him as first choice.

I do feel he'd be a big loss, I'm just not sure that he would be as difficult to replace as Sainz or Sargent. 

[Feedthewolf 5,931]

Just now, chicken said:

I feel a bit conflicted about Gunn. At this level he's certainly a good goalkeeper, and he's good enough to be part of promotion pushing sides. Is he Premier League level? He struggled to push out Krul. He's nearing 29 and we have been the only club to regularly play him as first choice.

I do feel he'd be a big loss, I'm just not sure that he would be as difficult to replace as Sainz or Sargent. 

Oh yeah, I'm not saying he's irreplaceable, but 28/29 is no age for a goalkeeper, his best years should still be ahead of him. I'd love him to stay – if we get to the Premier League, we'll deal with whether he's good enough at that point. He'd need better competition than Long, that's for sure!

[Mr Apples 1,407]

Barnesy is back! 💪😍

Apples

Edited November 21, 2024 by Mr Apples

[chicken 3,138]

3 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Oh yeah, I'm not saying he's irreplaceable, but 28/29 is no age for a goalkeeper, his best years should still be ahead of him. I'd love him to stay – if we get to the Premier League, we'll deal with whether he's good enough at that point. He'd need better competition than Long, that's for sure!

It's not, though unless they have played top tier for a considerable chunk already, it is pretty rare for keepers to still be first choice much beyond 35. I can see why he might be keeping his options open. His next contract could either put him in that position or pretty much determine what the remainder of his career will look like.

If he goes to Celtic at 29, it's cashing in for potentially a top championship/lower premier league wage but he will have set out the peak of his career there. Go to a top tier that is seen as a higher standard in Europe and he could yet progress that within a year or two. It'll be interesting to see what happens. It really does depend upon whether his ambition is to play higher or be paid higher or both.

I think most folks would like to see him stay, for lots of reasons, not just that he is solid at this level. We've seen some good opposition keepers that cost a lot less than his £5m fee though. And I'd like to see him stay too. It just depends at what cost I guess. 

[Bovril 271]

You can file Angus Gunn in the Kenny Mclean folder.

Both players very important to our team and more than good enough for the top end of our league but not quite good enough to sustain us in the Premier League. Then again, who is these days? You need to spend £200m just to give you a fighting chance of finishing 17th. 

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,333]

"On Angus Gunn, "He is available""

Available for sale? 

Edited November 21, 2024 by How I Wrote Elastic Man

[Old Shuck 300]

I don't know how much Stoke paid for Viktor Johansson  but it wouldn't have been the sort of fee you would think we would baulk at.

He's probably one of the best keepers in the Champ at the moment but is he ever going to play in the PL? Not likely with Stoke, but could he make the step up if we went up?

Joe Whitworth is one that is worth keeping an eye on. But so, it would seem, is our own Vicente Reyes.

My hunch is that Gunny will be off in the summer and that Woods contact extension was to provide us with cover, long term, squad and matchday wise rather than be a number one himself, especially as Mair and Barden might both be off as well.

 

[Unthink road 167]

Great to see the match day squad getting stronger. Let's hope we can keep the squad fit for a good spell, because we might not be too far away from a top six finish. 

[sgncfc 1,345]

3 hours ago, Old Shuck said:

I don't know how much Stoke paid for Viktor Johansson  but it wouldn't have been the sort of fee you would think we would baulk at.

He's probably one of the best keepers in the Champ at the moment but is he ever going to play in the PL? Not likely with Stoke, but could he make the step up if we went up?

Joe Whitworth is one that is worth keeping an eye on. But so, it would seem, is our own Vicente Reyes.

My hunch is that Gunny will be off in the summer and that Woods contact extension was to provide us with cover, long term, squad and matchday wise rather than be a number one himself, especially as Mair and Barden might both be off as well.

 

I suspect Reyes is our number one for next season if Gunn goes. I agree that Long is designed to be the professional bench warmer who can contribute if needed but they wouldn't want a youngster there - they need to play. As a character you have to say that Long is very solid - his mistakes don't phase him at all.

[Robert N. LiM 6,442]

10 hours ago, sgncfc said:

As a character you have to say that Long is very solid - his mistakes don't phase him at all.

He's obviously got used to them.

[hogesar 10,949]

Worth noting for all Longs errors, our performances haven't warranted better anyway. Out of the last 6 games, 4 teams have created more and better chances than us. And 3 of those teams you would class as midtable or bottom half sides.

So we need to improve all over. Gunn isn't a magic fix!

[Robert N. LiM 6,442]

12 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Worth noting for all Longs errors, our performances haven't warranted better anyway. Out of the last 6 games, 4 teams have created more and better chances than us. And 3 of those teams you would class as midtable or bottom half sides.

So we need to improve all over. Gunn isn't a magic fix!

One of the things a good keeper does which is hard to measure, is give the team in front of them confidence. Take your point,  but having Angus back is huge 

Edited November 22, 2024 by Robert N. LiM

[king canary 8,944]

41 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Worth noting for all Longs errors, our performances haven't warranted better anyway. Out of the last 6 games, 4 teams have created more and better chances than us. And 3 of those teams you would class as midtable or bottom half sides.

So we need to improve all over. Gunn isn't a magic fix!

This sort of stuff is why people hate xG by the way.

You don't just look at the stat and go 'well they had a higher xG so we didn't deserve anything from them'

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 4,736]

16 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

Yep, that's the elephant in the room. With Long contracted until 2027, the thought of him being our regular first choice is unpalatable at best. If Angus decides to leave, it's vital that we invest in a commanding, confident keeper with excellent distribution to replace him.

Regardless of whether Gunn stays or goes, I'd like to think that possibility of Long becoming number one is practically zero. He may be a good pro, a good influence in the dressing room and happy to be here as a number two, hence the contract, but he isn't good enough to be the regular number one.

 

55 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Worth noting for all Longs errors, our performances haven't warranted better anyway. Out of the last 6 games, 4 teams have created more and better chances than us. And 3 of those teams you would class as midtable or bottom half sides.

So we need to improve all over. Gunn isn't a magic fix!

Several goals conceded during Long's stint have been either his error or he could've done better. We surely would've conceded fewer with Gunn in goal, and I think it's pretty tough to argue a case against that.

 

16 hours ago, Bovril said:

You can file Angus Gunn in the Kenny Mclean folder.

Both players very important to our team and more than good enough for the top end of our league but not quite good enough to sustain us in the Premier League. 

Whilst that may be true, our priority right now is getting out of the Championship. We can deal with the 'is Gunn good enough?' question if/when we get promoted. 

[king canary 8,944]

16 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Regardless of whether Gunn stays or goes, I'd like to think that possibility of Long becoming number one is practically zero. He may be a good pro, a good influence in the dressing room and happy to be here as a number two, hence the contract, but he isn't good enough to be the regular number one.

 

Several goals conceded during Long's stint have been either his error or he could've done better. We surely would've conceded fewer with Gunn in goal, and I think it's pretty tough to argue a case against that.

 

Whilst that may be true, our priority right now is getting out of the Championship. We can deal with the 'is Gunn good enough?' question if/when we get promoted. 

I think over the last 5 games it is pretty easy to argue that we should have beaten Preston and Cardiff- although only one of those is down to Long's errors. 

[hogesar 10,949]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

This sort of stuff is why people hate xG by the way.

You don't just look at the stat and go 'well they had a higher xG so we didn't deserve anything from them'

Maybe look beyond xG yourself? I certainly am.

It's not to do with xG alone. Long wasn't responsible for Cardiff which was probably the only one you could say we deserved and were close to winning.

We didn't not deserve anything because of xG. But because we've played terribly and created less in the mean time whilst conceding big chances in a lot of our recent games. I don't think we deserved even a draw vs Boro at home in reality, although the Sainz bangers were great to watch in the stadium, they were generally speaking better than us.

 

[hogesar 10,949]

1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Regardless of whether Gunn stays or goes, I'd like to think that possibility of Long becoming number one is practically zero. He may be a good pro, a good influence in the dressing room and happy to be here as a number two, hence the contract, but he isn't good enough to be the regular number one.

 

Several goals conceded during Long's stint have been either his error or he could've done better. We surely would've conceded fewer with Gunn in goal, and I think it's pretty tough to argue a case against that.

 

Whilst that may be true, our priority right now is getting out of the Championship. We can deal with the 'is Gunn good enough?' question if/when we get promoted. 

Of course Long has been responsible for some poor goals individually. And of course you can't measure easily what confidence effect it's had on the rest of the team / defence.

But if we give up the sort of chances we've given up in recent games we're still likely to concede goals, so I expect to see a change at the back anyway beyond just Gunn

[TheGunnShow 7,470]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

Worth noting for all Longs errors, our performances haven't warranted better anyway. Out of the last 6 games, 4 teams have created more and better chances than us. And 3 of those teams you would class as midtable or bottom half sides.

So we need to improve all over. Gunn isn't a magic fix!

That's missing the psychological aspect on a team when there's a seasoned, capable keeper at the level you're playing at behind them. Even the best of teams can be a bit unnerved if the goalie behind them is jittery or has an error in them.

[repman 808]

The big issue with Long for me is that we seem to have conceded the first chance the opposition have every time. A lot of them I would say were half chances at best too. It's cliche to say goals change games but that has reallly hurt us I think. Especially in the last 2 games before the break.

[Google Bot 3,995]

4 hours ago, Robert N. LiM said:

One of the things a good keeper does which is hard to measure, is give the team in front of them confidence. Take your point,  but having Angus back is huge 

Precisely, plus one moment can change the entire game and therefore mindset of players and system played from that minute on.  And that cannot be reflected in a stat.

We've seen it many times before where a moment of brilliance or meaty tackle can lift the game, and also where a gaff, hesitation or lack of cohesion can kill it.  There's 22 hearts and heads on that field plus a thousand times more watching on.  Match-day is very much a living breathing thing.

It's the job of the opposing team to smell and isolate any weaknesses during that period.

Edited November 22, 2024 by Google Bot

[king canary 8,944]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Maybe look beyond xG yourself? I certainly am.

It's not to do with xG alone. Long wasn't responsible for Cardiff which was probably the only one you could say we deserved and were close to winning.

We didn't not deserve anything because of xG. But because we've played terribly and created less in the mean time whilst conceding big chances in a lot of our recent games. I don't think we deserved even a draw vs Boro at home in reality, although the Sainz bangers were great to watch in the stadium, they were generally speaking better than us.

 

We should have beaten Preston too- we were by far the better team and let down by Long.

Honestly I only think the last few games I've only been concerned by the final two performances. Yes we weren't great at times v Boro but we also showed a level of fight that I think has to be appreciated.

And as plenty of others have mentioned, you can't just measure it in chances created- there are a whole host of other things at play. 

[Corbs1 183]

Cloughie always picked his Number 1 first, that’s your platform, the rest can be built in and on gradually. With us in my time, we have rarely built a real defence, that’s the next step. Bring back Jon Newsome. 

[shefcanary 3,081]

Doyle carrying an injury may also have had an impact on the goals against. Makes not playing Chrisene even stranger. 

[Robert N. LiM 6,442]

4 hours ago, king canary said:

This sort of stuff is why people hate xG by the way.

+1. Big fan of your stuff on here, @hogesar, and especially admire you fighting the corner of objective analysis against people's feels. But you don't strengthen that argument by glossing over the stats' limitations. Worth saying again that in a fluid, chaotic game like football, it is far, far harder to quantify 'objective' stats than it is in sports full of repetitive, discrete moments like baseball or cricket. Doesn't mean that the stats are meaningless, far from it (and you know, I think that I'm generally on your side on this stuff), but it means they always need to be interpreted.

Someone will remind me of the game, but there was a goal we conceded in our recent poor run which was followed by Doyle bawling out Long, presumably for not being in the right position to accept a backpass (from Cordoba, iirc). Clear instance of the CBs, rightly or wrongly, not trusting the keeper. Can't see how that sort of thing makes it to SofaScore.