Thank you, Delia & Michael | From those who were part of you

[wcorkcanary 4,839]

3 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

If people want to keep making BS arguments that Dean Smith was a disaster, I'll correct them. He didn't pass the eye test for a load of people that apparently should have gone to specsavers. Most of the moans were about not delivering a full 90 minutes of decent football; that's been true of both of his successors. Neither of his successors have got us towards the top of the league at any point.

And the other thing, let's not have any more of this revisionist nonsense that nobody wanted Farke gone when he went, because there was thread after thread arguing that he should be gone about game 10 of the second PL season.

Ahem,  I didn't mention Farke, so calm yerself , getting all prickly already.. you need a mirror in your cage little birdyo,  then  you can peck at yourself. You can stamp your feet as much as you like, some of us really weren't rhat impressed by Deano, so save your  breath trying ro persuade.  

[Big Vince 430]

This video shows how unacceptably close the owners got to players, managers, staff and their families. It is all very nice, but not professional, especially when you consider they are going to, and did have to sack many of these personnel.

Club owners should be aloof not mingling with staff. Hierarchies are there for a reason.

[Commonsense 829]

1 hour ago, Big Vince said:

Ipswich and Leicester are not still dreaming.

This shows how wrong you are-I’ll give you Leicester but Ipswich have had no trophies whatsoever in their cabinet for 40 years or so, rather than recent championship titles- not that you would know it as they frequently remind people of those they won before most of us were born.

P.S. Leicesters promotion to the Premier League was allowed despite their financial cheating!

[chicken 3,138]

3 hours ago, Indy said:

Not to mention his win % was the worst of any recent manager, only just better than Gary Megsons back in 95! Just wasn’t any good and got us relegated!

10 games, 2 points. 35+ to hope for a chance of safety. 40 to guarantee it. 11 games and 5 points. Leaving 27 games and 35pts to collect. That's more than a point per game.

I don't think it's fair to blame Smith for relegation alone when the points total after ten games was so poor.

Not to mention Webber's error in not trying to get games postponed when we had players out with covid when other teams, including rivals, were doing that and ended up benefitting from waiting until they had a more complete squad to play with.

[chicken 3,138]

23 hours ago, Commonsense said:

On the other hand he got us spectacularly promoted twice. Would you have preferred to have finished say 5th steadily and not won the play offs -Would you regard that as a better achievement than winning the league?

That's an odd comparison.

A better question would be if one would prefer winning the title and coming straight back down or staying up via winning the play-offs or 2nd place?

I enjoyed the Lambert initiated stint in the EPL more than any more recent one because that squad could really mix it up. Holt was both a lump and had good feet. The team could fight and play.

[littleyellowbirdie 3,148]

4 hours ago, Commonsense said:

This is drivel. Smith was an unmitigated disaster. He drove a wedge between the club and fans, bored many of us with his approach to games and fell out with key players. Whatever you think about Wagner he did put some of that right and as for ‘ not getting us towards the top of the league at any point’ I was under the impression that we qualified for the playoffs-could you explain how that happened if we weren’t in the top 6?

Rubbish. It was mostly about a lot of fans being in a strop with Webber at the time. I reckon anyone following Farke would have been treated as badly by fans because it was Webber making the decisions. Wagner got a slightly less bad reception because so many were basically gleeful about having got their way about Smith.

Wagner managed to qualify for the playoffs the second season after having looked like we were set for relegation at one stage. Smith, we never got to see whether he could have got us promoted because too many fans were prejudiced against him for their own weird reasons.

Edited November 19, 2024 by littleyellowbirdie

[littleyellowbirdie 3,148]

1 hour ago, Commonsense said:

This shows how wrong you are-I’ll give you Leicester but Ipswich have had no trophies whatsoever in their cabinet for 40 years or so, rather than recent championship titles- not that you would know it as they frequently remind people of those they won before most of us were born.

P.S. Leicesters promotion to the Premier League was allowed despite their financial cheating!

The consequence of Farke getting us promoted spectacularly only to do truly abysmally in the Premier League ended up just creating a feeling that promotion was pointless, killing any worth of winning the Championship.

[littleyellowbirdie 3,148]

4 hours ago, Indy said:

Not to mention his win % was the worst of any recent manager, only just better than Gary Megsons back in 95! Just wasn’t any good and got us relegated!

Not true. Smith's win percent in the Premier League was better than Farke's. As a general stat over whole time with us it's a meaningless, seeing as he oversaw more Premier League games than he did Championship games.

Farke on the other hand gave us our worst points tally since 1904, back when there were way less points to be had!

Edited November 19, 2024 by littleyellowbirdie

[lake district canary 4,878]

9 hours ago, Big Vince said:

Ipswich and Leicester are not still dreaming.

Of course they are. What's done is done and in the past. We have had some great days in the past too. We will continue to dream and one day we might achieve one of those dreams. That is what life is about, not worrying, fretting about the past. The past is the past, its gone, let it go. 

[Indy 3,499]

9 hours ago, chicken said:

10 games, 2 points. 35+ to hope for a chance of safety. 40 to guarantee it. 11 games and 5 points. Leaving 27 games and 35pts to collect. That's more than a point per game.

I don't think it's fair to blame Smith for relegation alone when the points total after ten games was so poor.

Not to mention Webber's error in not trying to get games postponed when we had players out with covid when other teams, including rivals, were doing that and ended up benefitting from waiting until they had a more complete squad to play with.

So you blame Farke who was gone after 11 games? Of course it Smith who was manager who got relegated, so of course he’s accountable, he was bought in to make us better and failed miserably.

[Indy 3,499]

8 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Not true. Smith's win percent in the Premier League was better than Farke's. As a general stat over whole time with us it's a meaningless, seeing as he oversaw more Premier League games than he did Championship games.

Farke on the other hand gave us our worst points tally since 1904, back when there were way less points to be had!

Yes it is! His win % is the worst since Megson in 95! You can pick you goalposts all you like buy stats show what a disaster Smith was and why he couldn’t get a  permanent managers job in England after.

[Capt. Pants 5,152]

Finally watched the video when it appeared in my YouTube feed. It's considerably shorter if you take Farke out of it!

[littleyellowbirdie 3,148]

44 minutes ago, Indy said:

Yes it is! His win % is the worst since Megson in 95! You can pick you goalposts all you like buy stats show what a disaster Smith was and why he couldn’t get a  permanent managers job in England after.

You pick unflattering and completely meaningless goalposts to suit a superficial and meaningless argument. You can't compare win rates in the Premier League to win rates in the Championship to win rates in League One. 

Farke's performance in the Premier League was the worst Premier League performance of any manager who managed us in the Premier League, including Dean Smith. 

And I'd also add that JHT shows every sign of being able to mould a team from scratch far faster than Farke was capable of, who needed well over a season, only hampered by injuries at the moment. 

Edited November 19, 2024 by littleyellowbirdie

[lake district canary 4,878]

8 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

And I'd also add that JHT shows every sign of being able to mould a team from scratch far faster than Farke was capable of, who needed well over a season, only hampered by injuries at the moment. 

Err, do we look like getting promoted this season?

So we are hampered by injuries at the moment. Wasn't Farke hampered by key injuries in that PL season you keep going on about? you are so selective in what you say.

The truth is that Smith was a bad fit for the club. End of.

Edited November 19, 2024 by lake district canary

[Kenny Foggo 1,205]

The video is a nice tribute to owners who have done their best. I appreciate their efforts over their time in charge & I am looking forward to a new era with our new owners.

The anti / pro posts need to take a back seat and we need to move on...

Edited November 19, 2024 by Kenny Foggo

[wcorkcanary 4,839]

11 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

The consequence of Farke getting us promoted spectacularly only to do truly abysmally in the Premier League ended up just creating a feeling that promotion was pointless, killing any worth of winning the Championship.

You speak for yourself Birdyo, no one else. 

[chicken 3,138]

14 hours ago, Indy said:

So you blame Farke who was gone after 11 games? Of course it Smith who was manager who got relegated, so of course he’s accountable, he was bought in to make us better and failed miserably.

No. Read it again.

Farkes premier league record is pretty awful though. Smith may have failed to keep us up, but he did no worse than Farke in that regard.

Putting it all on him is daft.

 

[Indy 3,499]

8 hours ago, chicken said:

No. Read it again.

Farkes premier league record is pretty awful though. Smith may have failed to keep us up, but he did no worse than Farke in that regard.

Putting it all on him is daft.

 

Sorry so but he was our manager for 27 games and was as bad, he was the manager at relegation and lots of people wanted him gone that summer! Failed to get us up following season. The worst manager for attitude and performance on the pitch in recent years!

[chicken 3,138]

2 hours ago, Indy said:

Sorry so but he was our manager for 27 games and was as bad, he was the manager at relegation and lots of people wanted him gone that summer! Failed to get us up following season. The worst manager for attitude and performance on the pitch in recent years!

Sorry, but this is largely fiction and full of contradictions.

If Farke holds no blame for failing to keep us up the 2nd time then Smith cant be blamed for failing to get promotion the season Wagner took over in January.

Attitude and performance are subjective. Some players performed better under him, some didn't. Performance under Smith was certainly better, in the premier league, than under Farke. That's not really arguable either, points and results wise, Smith was better.

Was Smith a good fit in the end? No. Was Farke successful for us in the premier league? No. Should both have been sacked. Yes.

Is it only Smiths fault for relegation? No. It was like entering a 100m race when everyone else is already 20-30m ahead. In the premier league, that's an immense task. 2 or more points per game with a 3rd of the season gone. Increadibly unreasonable to think that is an easy task and that the weight of probability is on your side. It's really not.

By all means, love and respect what Farke did for this club, but also be realistic and see where he struggled and failed.

[Indy 3,499]

2 hours ago, chicken said:

Sorry, but this is largely fiction and full of contradictions.

If Farke holds no blame for failing to keep us up the 2nd time then Smith cant be blamed for failing to get promotion the season Wagner took over in January.

Attitude and performance are subjective. Some players performed better under him, some didn't. Performance under Smith was certainly better, in the premier league, than under Farke. That's not really arguable either, points and results wise, Smith was better.

Was Smith a good fit in the end? No. Was Farke successful for us in the premier league? No. Should both have been sacked. Yes.

Is it only Smiths fault for relegation? No. It was like entering a 100m race when everyone else is already 20-30m ahead. In the premier league, that's an immense task. 2 or more points per game with a 3rd of the season gone. Increadibly unreasonable to think that is an easy task and that the weight of probability is on your side. It's really not.

By all means, love and respect what Farke did for this club, but also be realistic and see where he struggled and failed.

Yeh yeh, where is it largely fiction? whatever you think and what I think are opinions, I will cast the facts that Farke got us up twice, deserved better, yes we were relegated under Farke, he was sacked, possibly the correct call at the time, not that I was one as he’d just had a three game unbeaten run and I said at the time.
Smith wasn’t for us, as just being sacked after spending 130 million and only just keeping Villa up, then they were in a similar position at the time with us. He wasn’t available when we sacked Farke so certainly not why we sacked Farke!

Smith was the manager when we went down and had 27 games to keep us up! He didn’t and should have gone in the summer!

And I never mentioned Farke! Just asked you if you blame him? If not either than Webber?

Edited November 20, 2024 by Indy

[chicken 3,138]

4 hours ago, Indy said:

Yeh yeh, where is it largely fiction? whatever you think and what I think are opinions, I will cast the facts that Farke got us up twice, deserved better, yes we were relegated under Farke, he was sacked, possibly the correct call at the time, not that I was one as he’d just had a three game unbeaten run and I said at the time.
Smith wasn’t for us, as just being sacked after spending 130 million and only just keeping Villa up, then they were in a similar position at the time with us. He wasn’t available when we sacked Farke so certainly not why we sacked Farke!

Smith was the manager when we went down and had 27 games to keep us up! He didn’t and should have gone in the summer!

And I never mentioned Farke! Just asked you if you blame him? If not either than Webber?

Yours is opinion. I've stated it's a very poorly formed one, which it is.

You're not even conceding that 27 games to get 35pts in the premier league as a newly promoted side is a very tough ask of anyone. Farke failed to do that in one season and was on course to get fewer points a second time round.

Nowhere have I suggested Farke was sacked for any other reason than his own failures. Smith had nothing to do with Farke's sacking. Again, no idea where that came from.

The only reasonable conclusion is that Farke, Smith and Webber all had a part to play in that relegation. You can argue Smith got more time. You can argue that Smith didn't sign any of that squad either, that Farke was 100% part of the recruitment process as was Webber.

If you think you can just blame one of them 100%, you are wrong. Unreasonable, blinded and wrong.

[Indy 3,499]

17 minutes ago, chicken said:

Yours is opinion. I've stated it's a very poorly formed one, which it is.

You're not even conceding that 27 games to get 35pts in the premier league as a newly promoted side is a very tough ask of anyone. Farke failed to do that in one season and was on course to get fewer points a second time round.

Nowhere have I suggested Farke was sacked for any other reason than his own failures. Smith had nothing to do with Farke's sacking. Again, no idea where that came from.

The only reasonable conclusion is that Farke, Smith and Webber all had a part to play in that relegation. You can argue Smith got more time. You can argue that Smith didn't sign any of that squad either, that Farke was 100% part of the recruitment process as was Webber.

If you think you can just blame one of them 100%, you are wrong. Unreasonable, blinded and wrong.

How is it poorly formed, Jesus stop attacking posters! Just because you believe blame is not apportioned to Smith as I do doesn’t make anything poorly formed! Your constant bleeding of poorly formed or largely fiction to two facts is pretty sad! We’ll leave it there as I fully blame Webber for Farkes demise, he made terrible choices in his last few months and his appointments bar Farke were pretty ordinary to say the least! He threw Farke out without a plan, jumped onto Smith a week later when he got sacked for poor performance with Villa, he didn’t improve us enough to fight relegation and got us relegated all facts! His name as manager when we went down, terrible manager poorest win % since Megson, enough said?

[chicken 3,138]

24 minutes ago, Indy said:

How is it poorly formed, Jesus stop attacking posters! Just because you believe blame is not apportioned to Smith as I do doesn’t make anything poorly formed! Your constant bleeding of poorly formed or largely fiction to two facts is pretty sad! We’ll leave it there as I fully blame Webber for Farkes demise, he made terrible choices in his last few months and his appointments bar Farke were pretty ordinary to say the least! He threw Farke out without a plan, jumped onto Smith a week later when he got sacked for poor performance with Villa, he didn’t improve us enough to fight relegation and got us relegated all facts! His name as manager when we went down, terrible manager poorest win % since Megson, enough said?

The issue is that you refuse to proportion blame fairly and do so to protect the view you want to hold of one person. It isn't 'factual' to do that.

It isn't factual to ignore poor performance from one person but happily over-laden it on another.

It's a balanced, objective, or fair view. You are angry at me for wanting to proportion blame fairly, not emotionally.

The best example is that you attribute relegation at the end of a season to one head coach. The following season you attribute failure to get promoted to the head coach who was sacked midway through the season.

Two sets of goalposts.

And as you can see, I also hold Webber accountable. Farke, no matter how much people want to say otherwise, was still part of that summer's recruitment process and strategy. Webber may be more to blame, but Farke also has some portion of it too.

[NewNestCarrow 306]

Both Farke & Smith were utter rubbish in the PL, with Smith being marginally less rubbish. 

If fans had been at CR watching the six successive defeats in June & July 2019 (scored 1, conceded 13)  then I doubt Farke would have been around for the next season.

[essex canary 631]

5 hours ago, chicken said:

The issue is that you refuse to proportion blame fairly and do so to protect the view you want to hold of one person. It isn't 'factual' to do that.

It isn't factual to ignore poor performance from one person but happily over-laden it on another.

It's a balanced, objective, or fair view. You are angry at me for wanting to proportion blame fairly, not emotionally.

The best example is that you attribute relegation at the end of a season to one head coach. The following season you attribute failure to get promoted to the head coach who was sacked midway through the season.

Two sets of goalposts.

And as you can see, I also hold Webber accountable. Farke, no matter how much people want to say otherwise, was still part of that summer's recruitment process and strategy. Webber may be more to blame, but Farke also has some portion of it too.

How about the other Board Members who all allowed it to happen. Team game?