Should Long be starting?

[rock bus 1,115]

1 hour ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

Agree with this.

The players are probably getting fed up with playing with a dodgy keeper. However can't be allowed to play the blame game and pin it all on him to mask their own failures.

Lets not forget that we created no clear cut chances at all. If attack is the best form of defence, then we're failing all over the pitch. Long plays the best game of his life yesterday and keeps a clean sheet... and its still 0-0.

Wednesday keeper didn't get the chance to show whether he's also a dodgy keeper or not, because he wasn't worked hard.

Whilst I agree to some extent, I'm afraid it doesn't mask the fact that Long makes far too many mistakes which results in goals.

Second goal last night is a classic example. Yes Cordoba shouldn't have given the foul away, yes the defenders might have done better job of clearing the ball or marking the attacker BUT the key point is that the actual header was weak and right at Long. I would have expected most people to have been able to save it, let alone a professional goal keeper.

So whilst we do need to tighten up the defence the reality is that Long is not good enough.

[Europe_93 51]

1 hour ago, Jim Smith said:

Rofl. What you can’t see there is he’s just run into the shot from even further out to the right and closer to the goal line. He was between the side of the 6 box and the edge of the box. If he’s around his penalty spot he just runs out and intercepts that ball. 

It was hard to tell exactly where he was watching on TV, but I thought he was too far right, not really sure about his depth... but I agree that a better starting position he would have cut the ball out.  As a rule of thumb, I draw a line from the centre of the goal to the player who passed the ball and largely he should be within 5 yds of that depending on his depth and what else is going on.  He seemed 10-15 yds to the right....

It seemed a bigger error than the other goal on first watch, it is easy to say the header was right at him, but it was right down by his feet and would have needed a good reaction to save, and the guy has a virtually free header (defending was poor) from 6-7 yards so he has a lot to cover... whereas basic positioning / concentration seems very hard to mitigate.

[Jim Smith 2,673]

31 minutes ago, Europe_93 said:

It was hard to tell exactly where he was watching on TV, but I thought he was too far right, not really sure about his depth... but I agree that a better starting position he would have cut the ball out.  As a rule of thumb, I draw a line from the centre of the goal to the player who passed the ball and largely he should be within 5 yds of that depending on his depth and what else is going on.  He seemed 10-15 yds to the right....

It seemed a bigger error than the other goal on first watch, it is easy to say the header was right at him, but it was right down by his feet and would have needed a good reaction to save, and the guy has a virtually free header (defending was poor) from 6-7 yards so he has a lot to cover... whereas basic positioning / concentration seems very hard to mitigate.

 

[Jim Smith 2,673]

Not quite as deep as I thought but a long way right and in fact he runs backwards, away from the ball allowing the striker to get to it first. It’s terrible keeping. 

[king canary 8,969]

5 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Not quite as deep as I thought but a long way right and in fact he runs backwards, away from the ball allowing the striker to get to it first. It’s terrible keeping. 

Classic case of him having ****ed up vs Preston so now being overly cautious and caught in two minds. 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,712]

7 minutes ago, king canary said:

Classic case of him having ****ed up vs Preston so now being overly cautious and caught in two minds. 

100%, made the same point earlier. 

He's got the Yips. Mentally finished as a pro keeper, sadly. 

[TheGunnShow 7,471]

I thought he'd really got the jitters after that second goal, but then pulled a decent save off not long afterwards. He does give off a real sense of nervousness to me and I think it might not be a bad idea to take him out of the firing line.

It is a tricky one for a goalie though - the mental game is honed through confidence/experience/positive outcomes in match situations, there's no other way. The Preston penalty was a classic case of a new keeper being psyched up and it impaired his judgement coming off his line. So I understand a goalie staying back next time, but he doesn't seem too quick at scrambling from side-to-side either. Stand your man up and get close/make yourself big.

Back to my first point, a jittery keeper will put the heebies in the rest of the team. At the same time, starting with a new keeper can also unsettle a defence somewhat as they've got to get accustomed to the new man under match conditions (which brings us back to my point re. the mental game again).

Knowing the Bristol match is the last one for two weeks, I would be inclined to let Long have it, knowing if he flubs a weak one again, it may be time to consider Mair or even bring Reyes back.

[Google Bot 4,003]

To give Long some credit, I felt that the way he sat on the grass faking injury was up there with the best.  Timed it to perfection, allowing us a minute to huddle and talk tactics.  So it's not all bad.

[Capt. Pants 5,160]

We might know a bit more in January about Gunn's intentions, but even if he's not intending to stay he'll still be the clear 1st choice.

Him and his agent must be rubbing their hands together at the moment. Bit of a mess really.

[hogesar 10,965]

The problem is, take him out of the team now and he probably never gets the chance again, which would be fine if we hadn't just signed him up on a longer contract.

It is probably the right call at this stage though.

[king canary 8,969]

5 minutes ago, hogesar said:

The problem is, take him out of the team now and he probably never gets the chance again, which would be fine if we hadn't just signed him up on a longer contract.

It is probably the right call at this stage though.

Yes we've created a bit of a problem for ourselves with the new deal. 

[Grando 346]

6 minutes ago, king canary said:

Yes we've created a bit of a problem for ourselves with the new deal. 

Well I guess they must see something in training that led them to give him that contract. The problem is that he’s error prone in matches, which a keeper can’t get away with. And in a hypothetical situation where they hadn’t awarded him the contract I’d be surprised if, after his recent 1st-team performances, they would do the same now.

[Petriix 3,253]

12 minutes ago, king canary said:

Yes we've created a bit of a problem for ourselves with the new deal. 

A problem entirely of our own making. He was clearly below the required standard when he played last year. Sometimes I think contracts and signings are based on hope rather than genuine analysis. 

I suspect that Long shows some great attributes with the ball at his feet in training. He ticks certain boxes which we're looking for in our general style when we have the ball. I actually think he looks really composed and passes it out well. 

I imagine they really hoped that the basics of actually saving goal-bound shots would come naturally. Maybe he does ok when out of the spotlight.

Whatever. 

He isn't good enough at actually saving shots in match situations. He shouldn't be playing. Everything else is irrelevant. 

[Capt. Pants 5,160]

How much slack do we give Mair though if he comes in? Mair might be a better shot stopper but might be rubbish with the ball at his feet. There would be no point in him lumping the ball up to Crnac, or giving it away in his own penalty area.

I suspect Long will be in for Saturday assuming Gunn is back the game after.

[Monty13 2,811]

45 minutes ago, king canary said:

Yes we've created a bit of a problem for ourselves with the new deal. 

I honestly have no idea why you’d prioritise it.

Were we worried about him moving on for free? 

Surely we could have waited, it’s looking the first really poor decision of the Knapper era now.

I’ve been way more patient than most but he just doesn’t look like he’s going to overcome the mistakes.

[JonnyJonnyRowe 1,056]

11 hours ago, hogesar said:

The problem is, take him out of the team now and he probably never gets the chance again

If Mair can come in and do a decent job for a couple of games and assume his number 2 position when Gunn is back, then perhaps a loan to Scotland or League One for Long to see if he can claw back a bit of confidence. If indeed confidence is part of the issue, which at this point it probably is.

Will presumably be an expensive third choice keeper for a club stuck in this league. 

Thorup must just not believe Mair is good enough or suited to his football I'm afraid.

Mair must be looking at Jon McCracken leaving and getting into the Scotland squad and be considering his options now. Archie Mair preferred by Scotland at U18, U19 and U21 level, and now leapfrogged by McCracken because he's gone out to play football.

Edited November 7, 2024 by JonnyJonnyRowe

[JonnyJonnyRowe 1,056]

On 05/11/2024 at 20:38, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Is Barden still at the club?...he looked better than this

Barden is out on loan at Swindon so won't be an option until January. Played 5 games in League Two under Ian Holloway, which is great for the lad after what he's been through. 

Archie Mair is here though, and personally I'd like to see what he can do at this stage.

Either it works out or it doesn't, but we've got nothing to lose at this point, nobody will hold it against Mair if he comes in and has a nightmair (I'll pat myself on the back for that one) and will just think it was worth a try. 

Edited November 7, 2024 by JonnyJonnyRowe

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,838]

You just have to look at Duffy's reaction to the second goal to see what the feeling within the defense is. He goes ballistic at GL. 

[Europe_93 51]

22 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

 

I did find that later in the day actually, and if you see where the ball is it has already travelled 35 yds I would say, and Long is running there.  It was a brilliant pass to be fair, and when you are not in a good space like Long right now, every little error seems to cost....

[Michael Starr 583]

He will start as it's just 1 game before the return of Gunn, had it been more games I think we'd have seen a change.

[Jersey Canary 180]

No

[Capt. Pants 5,160]

Thorup casts his vote tomorrow. It doesn't really matter what we think.

[Petriix 3,253]

If he's been reading this thread, Long should be starting to understand the weight of disappointment in his ability.