Elephants in the Room

[The Dog 47]

Don't get me wrong, I am loving this season, and the change of approach/atmosphere has rejuvenated the whole fanbase/club. It feels like we are back united as a club once again, and it is us against the opposition as opposed to the fans v's the board/Sporting Director/Manager. There are however a few elephants in the room that we need to be careful of. 

Crnac and Forson 

We have spent a reported 13 million on these two combined and at the moment, neither look like they are contributing much. Whilst 13m isn't big in overall football terms, it is a huge outlay for us and our model. We need to give them time but how long? Both look very one-footed (left) and Forson looks very lightweight. Crnac has all the physical attributes but looks to be very timid and seems to go missing for long periods of games. 

Sargent

I love Josh but he just doesn't seem right this season. He looks downbeat, as if he doesn't want to be here, his touch has been poor and yesterday the game passed him by completely. With no real competition for his place, I worry the hunger has dropped off a bit. 

Doyle 

Great player but he is a centre-back, not a left back IMO and teams are beginning to really exploit him for pace. 

Gunn

No sign of a new contract and we have seen how valuable he is to us when he is not playing. 

 

I'm sure the Knapper and JHT have this all under control. 

 

OTBC 

[If wed kept Howie.. 305]

binner

[If wed kept Howie.. 305]

4 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Don't get me wrong, I am loving this season, and the change of approach/atmosphere has rejuvenated the whole fanbase/club. It feels like we are back united as a club once again, and it is us against the opposition as opposed to the fans v's the board/Sporting Director/Manager. There are however a few elephants in the room that we need to be careful of. 

Crnac and Forson 

We have spent a reported 13 million on these two combined and at the moment, neither look like they are contributing much. Whilst 13m isn't big in overall football terms, it is a huge outlay for us and our model. We need to give them time but how long? Both look very one-footed (left) and Forson looks very lightweight. Crnac has all the physical attributes but looks to be very timid and seems to go missing for long periods of games. 

Sargent

I love Josh but he just doesn't seem right this season. He looks downbeat, as if he doesn't want to be here, his touch has been poor and yesterday the game passed him by completely. With no real competition for his place, I worry the hunger has dropped off a bit. 

Doyle 

Great player but he is a centre-back, not a left back IMO and teams are beginning to really exploit him for pace. 

Gunn

No sign of a new contract and we have seen how valuable he is to us when he is not playing. 

 

I'm sure the Knapper and JHT have this all under control. 

 

OTBC 

I particularly don't agree on Sargent.. he is contributing massively and is also scoring - if anything he is contributing more to the team. A good example yesterday is the owngoal.. had the keeper not clipped it in - Sargent would have put it in.. pressuring the keeper and being in the right place at the right time is part of his job..

As for the comments about Crnac and Forson - give them some ****ing time...

I think you have the wrong animal in your OP - you meant scapegoats rather than elephants

[SwearyCanary 1,367]

Agree with above. Sargent had been great, Fordon and Ante need time to adapt. Nunez had shown a season is at least what’s needed so having Players getting to that level requires more time. Even Emi, Vrancic and Stiepermann didn’t hit the ground running. 

[cambridgeshire canary 7,932]

"How come these players who only recently moved here and have never played in this country and league are not quite with it yet?"

 

Although I do agree with Sargent being a bit off.

Edited October 28, 2024 by cambridgeshire canary

[In my blood 120]

A season of adjustment and developing and being prepared for some of the signings to not make it. 

On another post, I'm pretty sure Parma called Crnac 'a data signing'. All the attributes but not yet the finished article. A huge gamble for a club of our current size and will hopefully come good, esp if played as a forward and not on the wing. But he might not make it. 

So much to play out yet and if it gels this season, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

[jaberry2 798]

27 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Don't get me wrong, I am loving this season, and the change of approach/atmosphere has rejuvenated the whole fanbase/club. It feels like we are back united as a club once again, and it is us against the opposition as opposed to the fans v's the board/Sporting Director/Manager. There are however a few elephants in the room that we need to be careful of. 

Crnac and Forson 

We have spent a reported 13 million on these two combined and at the moment, neither look like they are contributing much. Whilst 13m isn't big in overall football terms, it is a huge outlay for us and our model. We need to give them time but how long? Both look very one-footed (left) and Forson looks very lightweight. Crnac has all the physical attributes but looks to be very timid and seems to go missing for long periods of games. 

Sargent

I love Josh but he just doesn't seem right this season. He looks downbeat, as if he doesn't want to be here, his touch has been poor and yesterday the game passed him by completely. With no real competition for his place, I worry the hunger has dropped off a bit. 

Doyle 

Great player but he is a centre-back, not a left back IMO and teams are beginning to really exploit him for pace. 

Gunn

No sign of a new contract and we have seen how valuable he is to us when he is not playing. 

 

I'm sure the Knapper and JHT have this all under control. 

 

OTBC 

All valid points. Im certainly not basic enough just to call you a binner for having an opinion.

Forson started the season well and hasnt had much game time since his injury. Since then he has been a little off the boil, but for example was brought on, on the right wing yesterday. Not his real position. Will need to see him start a string of games and find his feet again. Hopefully the one positive from the Kenny suspension that it may allow him more time in the starting XI. Crnac to to me looks like he would be better centrally and that Gordon would be far more useful on the wing as a replacement.

Sargent is working hard as per but just doesnt have the supply of old and anyone competent enough to feed him through on his intelligent runs. I am hoping a more up to speed Marcondes plays behind him and feeds the GOAT a little more. There isnt much to feed off in terms of quality crosses from either side.

Doyle looks to me better centrally as at leftback his pace makes him get caught out of possession. Would prefer a centre back pairing of Doyle/Cordoba with Chrisene playing leftback, albeit harsh on Duffy. More of a decision of Hoff, which would be a big compromise.

Im sure Gunn wont leave the club high and dry on his contract. Knapper seems pretty on the ball.

I still think many new additions havent played that much football in order to heavily criticize them, albeit if they start or contribute its only fair for people to critique their performances.

Edited October 28, 2024 by jaberry2

[cambridgeshire canary 7,932]

4 minutes ago, In my blood said:

A season of adjustment and developing and being prepared for some of the signings to not make it. 

On another post, I'm pretty sure Parma called Crnac 'a data signing'. All the attributes but not yet the finished article. A huge gamble for a club of our current size and will hopefully come good, esp if played as a forward and not on the wing. But he might not make it. 

So much to play out yet and if it gels this season, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

"He's got all the attributes to be a top player.."

 

Oh god is Cranc Idah in disguise?

[Nuff Said 6,051]

20 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

"He's got all the attributes to be a top player.."

 

Oh god is Cranc Idah in disguise?

The phrase “data signing” made me think of Placheta and shiver. Wasn’t the story he had some great attributes and they hoped the rest could be coached?

[hogesar 10,949]

Crnac has somehow seemingly regressed in performance level from the minute he scored his goal. 

Hopefully he shows more between now and Christmas. He most certainly doesn't reflect the amount we paid but that isn't his fault.

[......and Smith must score. 1,637]

2 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

The phrase “data signing” made me think of Placheta and shiver. Wasn’t the story he had some great attributes and they hoped the rest could be coached?

Farke said he was one of the fastest players he'd seen. Wasn't the fastest out of the door but the chances of a long service testimonial were less than nil

[Nexus_Canary 1,254]

45 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Don't get me wrong, I am loving this season, and the change of approach/atmosphere has rejuvenated the whole fanbase/club. It feels like we are back united as a club once again, and it is us against the opposition as opposed to the fans v's the board/Sporting Director/Manager. There are however a few elephants in the room that we need to be careful of. 

Crnac and Forson 

We have spent a reported 13 million on these two combined and at the moment, neither look like they are contributing much. Whilst 13m isn't big in overall football terms, it is a huge outlay for us and our model. We need to give them time but how long? Both look very one-footed (left) and Forson looks very lightweight. Crnac has all the physical attributes but looks to be very timid and seems to go missing for long periods of games. 

Sargent

I love Josh but he just doesn't seem right this season. He looks downbeat, as if he doesn't want to be here, his touch has been poor and yesterday the game passed him by completely. With no real competition for his place, I worry the hunger has dropped off a bit. 

Doyle 

Great player but he is a centre-back, not a left back IMO and teams are beginning to really exploit him for pace. 

Gunn

No sign of a new contract and we have seen how valuable he is to us when he is not playing. 

 

I'm sure the Knapper and JHT have this all under control. 

 

OTBC 

Sounds more like your team lost 4-3 after conceding a 2-0 lead yesterday with a post like that.

But I will take the bait.
Crnac and Forson
This is not Footy Manager or Fifa, these guys could take up to a year to adapt to the Championship. Give them a chance to adapt and settle. How long do we give them? As long as it takes, both have shown they are capable.

Sarge
You been watching any games? His work rate is still 100% and he still looks the same old Josh - Its just the Sainz Show at the moment, what do you expect? We are waiting for the team to properly settle once he gets some service he will start scoring for fun. Lay off the lad.

Doyle
I think he was bought in as a CB but the Cordoba / Duffy pairing has shocked everyone. Just because he got hammered to bits yesterday by the Boro #50 ( A 18 year old Scottish International who is contracted to Liverpool.... maybe we should have got him instead of Gordon?) who had some crazy step overs. 
That was Doyle's worst game in a city shirt, but considering the start hes made, hes allowed one clanger.

Gunn
No sign of a contract?! How do you know whats going on behind closed doors. Unless he wants to leave (doubtful from what I have heard) then he will sign, just give it time. We currently changing ownership no body is probably remotely worried about it until January.


Enjoy the season and less pants wetting 🙂
 

[cambridgeshire canary 7,932]

16 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

The phrase “data signing” made me think of Placheta and shiver. Wasn’t the story he had some great attributes and they hoped the rest could be coached?

If I remember right it's claimed Placheta recorded some of the best fitness and speed test results in our clubs entire history.

But then as we soon learned speed and fitness does not mean everything

Edited October 28, 2024 by cambridgeshire canary

[repman 808]

Crnac as of right now is not a 9 million pound player, but it doesn't take long to see why the recruitment department would have been excited by him and why they'd be comfortable spending that money on his potential. Technically he shows real flashes, and you'd hope as he settles more that becomes more regular. His size means that he's also got a pretty good fall back option of playing through the middle as he grows into his body a bit more. Giving him minutes out wide for now is good (especially when there doesn't seem to be another obvious option), it's pretty common development practice to do that, the club I think are hoping he comes good as a wide player but either way it should all be helpful for him.

He's also a good example of how our priorities shifted when Rowe made it clear he wanted to leave. Before that we were in the market for an Idah replacement, who would be backup to Sarge and could maybe play wide. With Rowe leaving we wanted someone who would be suited to playing on the right more and could maybe do the job up front, that's what Crnac is. 

[C.I.D 364]

1 hour ago, The Dog said:

Don't get me wrong, I am loving this season, and the change of approach/atmosphere has rejuvenated the whole fanbase/club. It feels like we are back united as a club once again, and it is us against the opposition as opposed to the fans v's the board/Sporting Director/Manager. There are however a few elephants in the room that we need to be careful of. 

Crnac and Forson 

We have spent a reported 13 million on these two combined and at the moment, neither look like they are contributing much. Whilst 13m isn't big in overall football terms, it is a huge outlay for us and our model. We need to give them time but how long? Both look very one-footed (left) and Forson looks very lightweight. Crnac has all the physical attributes but looks to be very timid and seems to go missing for long periods of games. 

Sargent

I love Josh but he just doesn't seem right this season. He looks downbeat, as if he doesn't want to be here, his touch has been poor and yesterday the game passed him by completely. With no real competition for his place, I worry the hunger has dropped off a bit. 

Doyle 

Great player but he is a centre-back, not a left back IMO and teams are beginning to really exploit him for pace. 

Gunn

No sign of a new contract and we have seen how valuable he is to us when he is not playing. 

 

I'm sure the Knapper and JHT have this all under control. 

 

OTBC 

Elephant?............... that looks like a whole herd of 'em tbh 😏

[Capt. Pants 5,152]

They are reasonable comments to be fair although there are positive offsets who have done better than possibly expected namely; Fisher, Cordoba, Sainz (with his goals), Nunez at last has delivered consistency, Duffy. Plus in my opinion I think Oscar could be the best of the lot.

Doyle worries me at LB. Absolutely destroyed by Doak, not a lot better at Preston and is actually slower than Duffy.

It was never going to be perfect from the off, but we're well ahead of schedule in this so-called rebuild.

[If wed kept Howie.. 305]

2 hours ago, jaberry2 said:

All valid points. Im certainly not basic enough just to call you a binner for having an opinion.

Forson started the season well and hasnt had much game time since his injury. Since then he has been a little off the boil, but for example was brought on, on the right wing yesterday. Not his real position. Will need to see him start a string of games and find his feet again. Hopefully the one positive from the Kenny suspension that it may allow him more time in the starting XI. Crnac to to me looks like he would be better centrally and that Gordon would be far more useful on the wing as a replacement.

Sargent is working hard as per but just doesnt have the supply of old and anyone competent enough to feed him through on his intelligent runs. I am hoping a more up to speed Marcondes plays behind him and feeds the GOAT a little more. There isnt much to feed off in terms of quality crosses from either side.

Doyle looks to me better centrally as at leftback his pace makes him get caught out of possession. Would prefer a centre back pairing of Doyle/Cordoba with Chrisene playing leftback, albeit harsh on Duffy. More of a decision of Hoff, which would be a big compromise.

Im sure Gunn wont leave the club high and dry on his contract. Knapper seems pretty on the ball.

I still think many new additions havent played that much football in order to heavily criticize them, albeit if they start or contribute its only fair for people to critique their performances.

binner...

(sorry i couldn't resist)

[Myra Hawtree 140]

Sorensen is fit again it seems to play left back.

[Europe_93 51]

I think the OP makes some interesting points for discussion / debate....

Sargent -  for me he has looked mostly v good at home and not so good in away games.  I also think (hard to tell watching TV rather than live at times) he is being tasked with moving out of the middle and when the a defender then tracks him this is opening up space for runners like Sainz.  As a team it is working, but doesn't always make his stats look great. 

Crnac - wathching him I wondered if he was Sargents long term replacement, can't see Sarge staying unless we get promoted.  Looking at his size & attributes made me think this, I think he has 12 months to acclimatise.  Interestingly, Darren Eadie commented something along these lines the other night.

Forson - yeah, he looks lightweight, but to be fair, given time to acclimatise you can see he could be really effective, and has shown this in some games.  As others have said on here, give them time, new club, new country and the Championship will be quite a culture shock for many.
Doyle - awesome in the centre of defence & great distribution, but not the quickest.  It's pro's vs cons - and pretty much JHT said this in his post match yesterday.  That elephant is out there.  I don't think we would necessarily look to buy him at the end of his loan even if he were available, but he offers us a lot right now until we can get our own players in.

With young players we should expect a level of inconsistency, especially this season.  There is a lot to be positve about, we have played a lot of the top teams and have matched them, we will get better, but are contendig with a squad that is a little bit thinner than optimal and not yet tailored to the managers requirements both of which will improve over time.

[king canary 8,944]

I'm struggling a bit with the growing Sargent criticism- I think he's been largely excellent this season and played a very selfless role. He's already more the doubled his assist total from last season, is creating more chances for others and generally being a bit of an all rounder. Did we all get so used to Pukki that we forgot strikers aren't just about hanging on the shoulder of the last man and making runs in behind?

[Gordon Bennett 948]

4 hours ago, The Dog said:

Don't get me wrong, I am loving this season, and the change of approach/atmosphere has rejuvenated the whole fanbase/club. It feels like we are back united as a club once again, and it is us against the opposition as opposed to the fans v's the board/Sporting Director/Manager. There are however a few elephants in the room that we need to be careful of. 

Crnac and Forson 

We have spent a reported 13 million on these two combined and at the moment, neither look like they are contributing much. Whilst 13m isn't big in overall football terms, it is a huge outlay for us and our model. We need to give them time but how long? Both look very one-footed (left) and Forson looks very lightweight. Crnac has all the physical attributes but looks to be very timid and seems to go missing for long periods of games. 

Sargent

I love Josh but he just doesn't seem right this season. He looks downbeat, as if he doesn't want to be here, his touch has been poor and yesterday the game passed him by completely. With no real competition for his place, I worry the hunger has dropped off a bit. 

Doyle 

Great player but he is a centre-back, not a left back IMO and teams are beginning to really exploit him for pace. 

Gunn

No sign of a new contract and we have seen how valuable he is to us when he is not playing. 

 

I'm sure the Knapper and JHT have this all under control. 

 

OTBC 

A hell of a lot longer than three months.

I'll always reference all the players who were completely ordinary in Farke's first season and were then part of a title winning team 12 months later.

[Bristol Canary 181]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

I'm struggling a bit with the growing Sargent criticism- I think he's been largely excellent this season and played a very selfless role. He's already more the doubled his assist total from last season, is creating more chances for others and generally being a bit of an all rounder. Did we all get so used to Pukki that we forgot strikers aren't just about hanging on the shoulder of the last man and making runs in behind?

Completely agree with this. His running power, intelligent movement and selflessness is a huge factor in Sainz's goalscoring form. He is involved in someway in most of them either by creating the space for the shot, laying it on the plate for him or just being a pain in the @rse. He has been a more well rounded threat. 

Nearly all the better championship strikers are on about 4 or 5 goals in 12 games so I can't back the idea he is in poor form. 9 goal actions in 12 games is pretty good and in all honesty he could have had 1 or 2 more goals.

He is averaging around 2 shots a game so maybe we could be getting a little more from him but his shot map shows that 90% are from inside the area and in decent positions so of a decent quality rather than pot shots. 

-

The main area of concern is the midfield composition. Since Marcondes has come in for Nunez we have had our first and third worst performance in terms of xGA (The quality of chances a team creates against us). For all the commentary on Doyle, I genuinely feel that he is no slower than McCallum and this pace issue is being over blown, it is the fact that the screen infront of the back four isn't working as well as before. This means his position is being exposed on the counter because Marcondes on the left of the three is not offering anything really out of possession and leaving him exposed. Going to be even more difficult I feel without McLean. 

[Mr Angry 2,094]

Elephants in the Room? Their first album was great but the difficult second album was rubbish.

[Ward 3 498]

5 hours ago, hogesar said:

Crnac has somehow seemingly regressed in performance level from the minute he scored his goal. 

Hopefully he shows more between now and Christmas. He most certainly doesn't reflect the amount we paid but that isn't his fault.

Cheers statto

[The Dog 47]

After watching tonight again I have to say my “elephant’s in the room” are getting bigger.

Forson - looks like someone who has won a prize to  get a game off the bench. The fact that we are so light on midfielders currently due to injuries and suspensions yet he doesn’t get a  start shows that even the manager thinks he is very poor currently. £4.5m we spent on him? Doesn’t look good.
 

Crnec - I still can’t see what raw talent he is meant to have. He’s 6ft 3 but seems to disappear on the pitch, has absolutely no influence or presence the at all. He looks no more a central striker than he does a right sided front man. Whilst we have to give him time at £8.5m he really needs to start showing us a glimmer of the potential talent we have supposedly bought.

Doyle - still looks like a centre back to me playing at left back 

Gunn - as Every game goes by it shows how much me miss him and how vital it is that we get him to sign a new deal. Let’s all pray he is back on Saturday as Long is in the Simon Tracey/Michael  Theoklitos league of  Goalkeepers. 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2024 by The Dog

[Mason 47 2,024]

7 minutes ago, The Dog said:

After watching tonight again I have to say my “elephant’s in the room” are getting bigger.

Forson - looks like someone who has won a prize to  get a game off the bench. The fact that we are so light on midfielders currently due to injuries and suspensions yet he doesn’t get a  start shows that even the manager thinks he is very poor currently. £4.5m we spent on him? Doesn’t look good.
 

Crnec - I still can’t see what raw talent he is meant to have. He’s 6ft 3 but seems to disappear on the pitch, has absolutely no influence or presence the at all. He looks no more a central striker than he does a right sided front man. Whilst we have to give him time at £8.5m he really needs to start showing us a glimmer of the potential talent we have supposedly bought.

Doyle - still looks like a centre back to me playing at left back 

Gunn - as Every game goes by it shows how much me miss him and how vital it is that we get him to sign a new deal. Let’s all pray he is back on Saturday as Long is in the Simon Tracey/Michael  Theoklitos league of  Goalkeepers. 

 

 

I agree with most of this however I'm a lot softer on Crnac.

We haven't looked the same since Hull and Sargent is included in that. He's drifted in and out of games, not really making any huge contributions and really just spending his games pressing.  Crnac hasn't done any worse

I don't think he's a signing for this season, anyway. Regardless of what we think the fee we paid should mean.

[Capt. Pants 5,152]

15 minutes ago, The Dog said:

After watching tonight again I have to say my “elephant’s in the room” are getting bigger.

Forson - looks like someone who has won a prize to  get a game off the bench. The fact that we are so light on midfielders currently due to injuries and suspensions yet he doesn’t get a  start shows that even the manager thinks he is very poor currently. £4.5m we spent on him? Doesn’t look good.
 

Crnec - I still can’t see what raw talent he is meant to have. He’s 6ft 3 but seems to disappear on the pitch, has absolutely no influence or presence the at all. He looks no more a central striker than he does a right sided front man. Whilst we have to give him time at £8.5m he really needs to start showing us a glimmer of the potential talent we have supposedly bought.

Doyle - still looks like a centre back to me playing at left back 

Gunn - as Every game goes by it shows how much me miss him and how vital it is that we get him to sign a new deal. Let’s all pray he is back on Saturday as Long is in the Simon Tracey/Michael  Theoklitos league of  Goalkeepers. 

 

 

Gets worse by the game. There has to come a time when Chrisene gets the nod over a loanee. 

Cordoba also seems to be regressing. Perhaps due a rest and give Doyle a go at CB if we have to play him.

[Ulfotto 832]

Doyle has 5 assists this season already which is why it makes sense he plays left back. Sure there are downsides but I think there are obvious upsides. Although I do think the whole pattern of play is around the triangle between McLean, Doyle and Sainz. With Sargent creating space. It’s pretty one dimensional the ball rarely if ever goes down the right side of the pitch.

Edited November 5, 2024 by Ulfotto

[Robert N. LiM 6,442]

12 hours ago, The Dog said:

After watching tonight again I have to say my “elephant’s in the room” are getting bigger.

There's a cream for that.

Good post, though. And even the one you left out from the OP is still valid, in that people's concerns about Sargent have been validated by it turning out, hardly surprisingly, that he's injured.

[Kenny Foggo 1,205]

Personally, I would cash in on Josh because I feel, he is never going to be fit enough to contribute to more than half a season. It would obviously need to be reinvested properly but with £15 -20m there has to be a better option out there.

I would 100% sign a keeper in January as Long doesn't have the confidence of his team mates & you could see that last night.

Crnec I like and think there is a really good player in there... took Iwan a season to get going! 

Forson too early to really say but he is struggling and looks off the pace