Competition for Sargent

[Keith Scott 295]

Should be number one priority in the Jan window.

When is Barnes due back?

All the best.

Big Keith Scott.

[daz 163]

45 minutes ago, Keith Scott said:

Should be number one priority in the Jan window.

When is Barnes due back?

All the best.

Big Keith Scott.

How are ips hit doing?! 🤣 🤣 🤣 

[jaberry2 799]

I think the issue was Sargeant was making runs and people were ignoring him and passing out wide. Plenty of opportunities to thread him through which the midfield failed to do. 

[Mutley 190]

Agreed👍

[daly 556]

2 hours ago, Keith Scott said:

Should be number one priority in the Jan window.

When is Barnes due back?

All the best.

Big Keith Scott.

Never hopefully 

[sgncfc 1,345]

Our midfield barely got the ball after the first 15 minutes, but Sargent was pretty anonymous. In a game like that where we are struggling to make any headway, he really needs to be able to hold the ball but it never seems to stick. 

[percy varco 254]

Sarge did not seem to be involved today. Cannot put my finger on it exactly but he was not an option when we were going forward. 

[Well b back 3,655]

Didn’t the op say we were going down and the binners with far more ambition than we ever had were on their way to Europe ? Might be right though if they bring the Texaco cup back

[canarybubbles 2,212]

I don't rate Sargent as highly as many do on here, but I think he's doing OK so far this season. He's never going to have reliable first touch so we have to accept that. If he did have good first touch, he would be playing for a lower-half PL team probably, not us.

But from what I've seen during games, he's making good runs but we just don't seem able to thread the ball through to him. And he's done some good work feeding Sainz, plus his usual incredible work rate. 

[Capt. Pants 5,152]

9 hours ago, sgncfc said:

Our midfield barely got the ball after the first 15 minutes, but Sargent was pretty anonymous. In a game like that where we are struggling to make any headway, he really needs to be able to hold the ball but it never seems to stick. 

His first touch is not his strong point, never has been never will be. When we go long to him he can't seem to get off the ground to win the header either so not really a target man like a Holty or Roberts.

Whether it's intentional or not his team mates choose not to pass. Part of the problem could be is that if you give it to him and he loses it, it may suggest your pass wasn't good enough so you choose a safer option to retain possession or create a better opportunity.

On the plus side, we don't need to worry about losing him in January!

 

[Feedthewolf 5,931]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

On the plus side, we don't need to worry about losing him in January!

I've been mulling this for a while, actually, and I'm really not convinced that he fits this system. A lot of players seem to be developing beautifully under Hoff, but Sarge's game seems to be going backwards. It's a bit like Harry Kane for England during the Euros; spending large parts of the game moving around up top to act as a 'decoy' to open up spaces for others, while not actually playing any great part in possession or build-up play.

Under Wagner and Smith, we were trying to be more direct and placing a lot of stock in attempting to get Sarge through with slide-rule passes (or, under Smith particularly, longer balls into channels).

Hoff clearly doesn't act the same way in terms of his take on vertical movement in transition; while we are capable of playing on the counter-attack, he much prefers patient build-up in the defensive and middle thirds to invite the press and open up space with the attacking midfielders. While Sarge is clearly a potent weapon at this level, defences know that they can't sleep on him, so Hoff seems happy to let him be largely shackled in order to open up space for the more fluid attacking patterns developing behind him.

In a hypothetical situation where we had to sell one of Sarge, Nunez and Sainz in January, I would actually look to replace Sargent. I think a more technical and tricky striker might suit this system a lot better, who marries the ability to move in and out of tight spaces and play intricate build-up play on the floor, with a more 'fox in the box' instinct like a Robert Earnshaw or similar.

I'd be interest to hear @Parma Ham's gone mouldy's thoughts on this particular conundrum, as I know he's said Sarge is a 'weapon' at Championship level. Are we blunting his blade to enhance the productivity of the whole?

[The Raptor 1,589]

18 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Hoff seems happy to let him be largely shackled in order to open up space for the more fluid attacking patterns developing behind him.

It looked like he didn't stop running yesterday. As you say. His hard work created space for others.

It reminded me of sterling in I think the 2018 world cup. Some tournament anyway. Everyone was slagging him off as he didn't score/assist, he's done **** all, he's **** etc.. but he was always so heavily marked it meant the others had space as he'd taken opposition players out of the game. 

[pete 375]

We have just weighed out £9m for competition for Sarge.  Crnac taking time to adjust unsurprisingly.  But putting wide right gets him in team but maybe needs to be central.  Sargent is struggling a little but puts in hell of a shift week in week out possibly not fully fit.  What does OP want stake another £9m on another untried option or more on finished article probably too expensive for our tastes.   Team doing ok for side with few striking options, Sarge ok like to see Crnac in his role though.

[Fosterslager88 22]

I think we already have signed a back up to Sarge - Crnac, much like Josh he’s a striker having to wait his turn out on the wing.

would rather see him used as a sub for sarge or even swapped when needing to keep things fresh

[ec-p 118]

I would like to see Crmac up top with Gordon on the wing when Sarge needs resting. Don’t think Thorop has tried that yet.

Edited October 28, 2024 by ec-p

[rock bus 1,108]

3 minutes ago, Fosterslager88 said:

I think we already have signed a back up to Sarge - Crnac, much like Josh he’s a striker having to wait his turn out on the wing.

would rather see him used as a sub for sarge or even swapped when needing to keep things fresh

I think this is a good point.

I can understand the desire to give him some time so he can get used to the English game but I'm not sure that playing him out of position is doing much for his confidence, or the fans confidence in him.

Ironically that's very similar to the position Sargent found himself in. 

At the moment he isnt contributing enough so I'd rather have someone else out wide from the start and then hopefully we will be in a position to bring Crnac on for a tiring Sargent later in games (preferably with the advantage of a couple of goals lead!)

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,268]

I don't normally like this type of striker I'm about to mention because you sacrifice so much if they're your main man expecting to start games but I really think we could do with a Rhodes/Hooper/Jackson type poacher in the box to come off the bench in games when it's just not clicking that we can just put balls into the box to. Crnac is a similar build to Sargent and has shown that's hard working and can cover ground in the position he's been playing in so far so I'm assuming he's the backup. I think we need an alternative type of striker as a different option but I guess that depends on how Thorup sees Barnes fitting in. Barnes has made a career out of his workrate from the front and getting the best out of those around him but his legs have gone, he's never been a great finisher, isn't clever in the penalty box in terms of finding space or movement and isn't amazing in the air so I don't know what he can offer if we're not playing 2 up top which is why I'd like to see someone brought in as a different option. 

I think it will depend on where we are in January though. If we're in and around the play offs then getting someone in might be a decent gamble. They'd have to be cheap and willing to be an option off the bench though so you're looking at a young player on loan or someone who's a pretty poor footballer at this level aside from being able to stick the ball in the net (like Rhodes) and whether there's anyone actually available. If we're mid table there's no point in wasting the money because Marcondes and Barnes can cover in both Sargent and Crnac are out. 

[Feedthewolf 5,931]

56 minutes ago, The Raptor said:

It looked like he didn't stop running yesterday. As you say. His hard work created space for others.

It reminded me of sterling in I think the 2018 world cup. Some tournament anyway. Everyone was slagging him off as he didn't score/assist, he's done **** all, he's **** etc.. but he was always so heavily marked it meant the others had space as he'd taken opposition players out of the game. 

I think it's also a question of whether Sarge is happy playing that role in the longer term. He was front and central to our strategy for the previous two seasons, but with the USA World Cup coming up in 2026, he might want to move to a club where he's used as an attacking focal point and the team makes more opportunities for him.

[Capt. Pants 5,152]

Crnac can't be backup to Sarge if he starts and then gets hooked on 60 mins. We need to sort that right hand side out as Crnac isn't creating moments really. Compare him to Doak yesterday and there are lightyears between them.

I'm struggling to see the logic behind the Gordon loan signing and can't wait to see Onel fit again (I never thought I'd say that!). He actually almost gave the game away yesterday when he lost possession in midfield.

We don't seem bothered about creating chances for Sarge whilst Sainz keeps scoring worldies, but take the latter away and it will become an issue.