The Last 2 Home Attendances

[essex canary 631]

According to the official 'sales' figures 700 or so below capacity for both matches. Looking around the ground there were other no shows well into 4 figures.

What did the Club do to try to fill the empty spaces?

The casual price for a parent and an under 12 was £32 for Hull and £49 for Leeds plus, of course, booking fees. 

An Academy parent got offered complemenrary tickets for Leeds by the Club. As their allegiance is to a top 6 club they didn't go. Probably tuned into BT sport to watch the Champions League instead.

[canarydan23 4,823]

I hate to take your stick away, but the club do take steps to fill empty seats. I'm a grassroots coach and our club regularly get offered a finite number of discounted seats in the build up to games.

And as for season ticket no shows, they're often decided late in the day and when they're not, the club can't force ST holders to notify them of their absence; they have a system that incentivises letting them know already. 

[Capt. Pants 5,152]

There were hardly any empty seats against Leeds despite horrendous rain prior to kick-off.

There were a lot against Hull, especially in the Upper Barclay, but a stupid kick-off time for most out of Norwich.

I miss hardly any home games; life evolves around them. Even so I would have to be heavily (financially) incentivised to make the effort to 'cancel' my seat. There would have to be on online solution and minimum 75% of average cost (or the cost of a casual ticket) back to me. Even then I have no time to mess around with that.

If fans want to make the effort it's not that difficult to get a ticket providing they are willing to sit (or stand) wherever.

[Rupethebear 29]

As we know the attendance quoted is tickets sold so the gaps are from empty ST seats. The club can not sell these tickets, if you’re looking for a scapegoat it’s called ‘SKY TV’ as they have stupid kick off times and then you can watch the game live on TV. Amazes me how many people travel away these days as they can stay at home and watch the game fir ‘free’

[Robert N. LiM 6,442]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

There were a lot against Hull, especially in the Upper Barclay, but a stupid kick-off time for most out of Norwich.

Lot in the upper Barclay for Watford, too. It was impossible, a few days before the game, to buy anything other than single tickets (with the exception of seats behind pillars), but there were loads of empty groups of seats at the actual game.

I know the club has a buy-back scheme for ST holders, but I'm not sure it's fit for purpose, especially in this new era of stupid kick-off times. It was an item on the agenda at the supporters' panel, so I think the club is aware that they might have to introduce a new scheme.

[A Load of Squit 6,260]

1 hour ago, canarydan23 said:

I hate to take your stick away, but the club do take steps to fill empty seats. I'm a grassroots coach and our club regularly get offered a finite number of discounted seats in the build up to games.

And as for season ticket no shows, they're often decided late in the day and when they're not, the club can't force ST holders to notify them of their absence; they have a system that incentivises letting them know already. 

They should send someone from the Ticket Office to ask the empty seat why the ticket holder didn't turn up.

[Jersey Canary 180]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

There were hardly any empty seats against Leeds despite horrendous rain prior to kick-off.

There were a lot against Hull, especially in the Upper Barclay, but a stupid kick-off time for most out of Norwich.

I miss hardly any home games; life evolves around them. Even so I would have to be heavily (financially) incentivised to make the effort to 'cancel' my seat. There would have to be on online solution and minimum 75% of average cost (or the cost of a casual ticket) back to me. Even then I have no time to mess around with that.

If fans want to make the effort it's not that difficult to get a ticket providing they are willing to sit (or stand) wherever.

I don’t know where you were sitting but there were plenty of empty seats at the Leeds game.

[Jersey Canary 180]

As far as the club is concerned most of the ground are season ticket holders so the club gets paid whether someone turns up or not. 

[Robert N. LiM 6,442]

@aBee Brentford have quite a brutal scheme for ST no-shows, don't they? Not saying we could or should implement such a scheme at CR, but it does seem to me to be the case that ST holders not turning up is preventing more casual fans (who of course might be ST holders of the future) getting into games. And it's only going to get worse if the current model of 12.30 kick-offs continues.

[nutty nigel 7,963]

1 hour ago, Rupethebear said:

As we know the attendance quoted is tickets sold so the gaps are from empty ST seats. The club can not sell these tickets, if you’re looking for a scapegoat it’s called ‘SKY TV’ as they have stupid kick off times and then you can watch the game live on TV. Amazes me how many people travel away these days as they can stay at home and watch the game fir ‘free’

This.

Of course dear old Essex subscribes to the tv channels while getting his seat at Carra for free.

Strange stick for him to wave at club…

[Herman 11,178]

15 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

This.

Of course dear old Essex subscribes to the tv channels while getting his seat at Carra for free.

Strange stick for him to wave at club…

There's a small area of Essex with no trees or bushes left. 

[Canary73 338]

I’m a ST holder and find that changes to kick off times and days alongside engineering works on the trains (or scrambling to make the 2200 departure after a mid week home game) means attending is trickier. I think the arrangements for selling back tickets for the fan and club could be better. I’ve often returned tickets but then not been reimbursed as they weren’t sold so I stop bothering and let the seat go empty. 

[Capt. Pants 5,152]

1 hour ago, Jersey Canary said:

As far as the club is concerned most of the ground are season ticket holders so the club gets paid whether someone turns up or not. 

They do but they would get paid even more if they could fill such seats. An empty one doesn't buy stuff from the bar or merchandise.

1 hour ago, Robert N. LiM said:

 

I know the club has a buy-back scheme for ST holders, but I'm not sure it's fit for purpose, especially in this new era of stupid kick-off times. It was an item on the agenda at the supporters' panel, so I think the club is aware that they might have to introduce a new scheme.

I can't even remember how it works or how much you get back, but it would be a potential revenue leakage if a guaranteed refund, partial or full, is given. Of course they would then have to raise the ST prices as an offset and they're pretty brutal already.

And then of course there's bloody TV scheduling. I start paying for my ST before the current season is even close to finish. This season we find there are hardly any Saturday 3pm kickoffs and for some they've already paid for a product they can't use. I don't think it's an issue for the club really as we seem to be on TV every week now.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,234]

The chap who sits to my right (who had a season ticket last season) has not been to a single game yet. I do not know if he has bought a season ticket for this season and if he has whether or not he has made his seat available via the buy back scheme, I will have a look for the next home game.

If he has bought a season ticket I would be against the club being able to take it away from him, to me it is immaterial if the seat is empty or not if it has been paid for.

I wouldn't have a problem with the club contacting to find out why he has not attended, find out if he intends to attend over the next say five games and if he isn't the club automatically making the ticket available via buyback.

In terms of the buyback scheme itself I think the club should look at making this less expensive to causal fans.....

[wcorkcanary 4,839]

So this rivetting topic , raised by our resident  defoliator seems to havecestablished two thing , 1 there isn't really a problem,  maybe some tweaking of buy back . 2. People want  easier cheaper tickets in groups if possible. I believe this should become Essexs new life's mission, there's no point him whining at us , he should volunteer his time and expertise to sort it out. Go Kev. 

[NewNestCarrow 306]

It would be interesting to know if NCFC accept that their current Buy Back scheme is flawed (and are genuinely looking to improve it) or if the initial ST sale is their prime metric. 

Anyone from SP got any input?

 

Flaws: outrageously stingy rebate, only now getting to a level that I consider acceptable; poor comms around seats being filled/remaining empty; seats allegedly being sold but rebate not being paid; scheme details buried deep within official website.

[Robert N. LiM 6,442]

19 minutes ago, NewNestCarrow said:

It would be interesting to know if NCFC accept that their current Buy Back scheme is flawed (and are genuinely looking to improve it) or if the initial ST sale is their prime metric. 

Anyone from SP got any input?

I'm not on the panel, but here is the relevant excerpt from the most recent minutes:

Quote

 

With more games being televised this season, the club sought feedback from the Panel on how to improve the attendance of season ticket holders with there being decreased attendance from season ticket holders when a game is televised, an evening kick off or when there is adverse weather. The Panel urged the club to avoid punitive measures brought in by other clubs and instead commented that the club’s buy-back scheme has limitations which deter supporters from using it. It was commented that the money is often not worthwhile to put a ticket on buy back and that the club has to sell out casual and often restricted tickets before the buy-back comes into effect, with some Panel members commenting that they had used it and placed good seats on buy-back which did not get sold. The club said it would review the buy-back process when bringing in the new ticket system next year.

A Panel member added that alternative kick-off times are difficult with public transport, especially on Sundays with another adding that discounted tickets could be given to local grassroots teams. The club confirmed that it gives a number of tickets to local teams via its Foundation.

 

 

[NewNestCarrow 306]

8 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

I'm not on the panel, but here is the relevant excerpt from the most recent minutes:

 

I had read all that, and it doesn't answer the question.  Does the club recognise that the scheme "has limitations" or is it oblivious to these issues and think everything is tickety-boo?

If anyone from the SP doesn't want to go public, feel free to private message me.

[Conrad 277]

8 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

There were hardly any empty seats against Leeds despite horrendous rain prior to kick-off.

There were a lot against Hull, especially in the Upper Barclay, but a stupid kick-off time for most out of Norwich.

I miss hardly any home games; life evolves around them. Even so I would have to be heavily (financially) incentivised to make the effort to 'cancel' my seat. There would have to be on online solution and minimum 75% of average cost (or the cost of a casual ticket) back to me. Even then I have no time to mess around with that.

If fans want to make the effort it's not that difficult to get a ticket providing they are willing to sit (or stand) wherever.

Sorry, but there were plenty of empty seats for the Leeds match. A good example was the corner infill between the River End and Main Stand, not all of which are ST seats 

[Matt Juler 215]

The problem with the current BuyBack scheme is that tickets do not go on sale until the game has sold out. For Leeds we returned a pair of tickets in a prime location, but because restricted view seats in the River/City Stand corner remained available, our tickets never went on resale. I can understand the logic, but there needs to be a threshold when tickets go on resale, not a full sell out.

[nutty nigel 7,963]

To be fair season tickets used to be supporters who went to every game regardless. Now there’s a more casual element to it. Coupled with, what’s beginning to feel like, the majority of games not being Sat 3pms.

i don’t know the answer just like I didn’t know about all these kick off time changes when I renewed.

 

[TIL 1010 5,303]

1 hour ago, NewNestCarrow said:

I had read all that, and it doesn't answer the question.  Does the club recognise that the scheme "has limitations" or is it oblivious to these issues and think everything is tickety-boo?

If anyone from the SP doesn't want to go public, feel free to private message me.

Surely the club would not hold a review if they thought everything was tickety-boo ?

[......and Smith must score. 1,637]

1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

To be fair season tickets used to be supporters who went to every game regardless. Now there’s a more casual element to it. Coupled with, what’s beginning to feel like, the majority of games not being Sat 3pms.

i don’t know the answer just like I didn’t know about all these kick off time changes when I renewed.

 

As a season ticket holder the last two home games I attended were 12.30 KO’s. Living some distance from Norwich I had an early weekend start both times and both were on TV. Hardly incentives to make the effort.

It turned out both were cracking games and in hindsight I’m glad I went but had it not been for having a family member in Norwich who I like to visit regularly I doubt I would have bothered to go.

[Mutley 190]

3 hours ago, Matt Juler said:

The problem with the current BuyBack scheme is that tickets do not go on sale until the game has sold out. For Leeds we returned a pair of tickets in a prime location, but because restricted view seats in the River/City Stand corner remained available, our tickets never went on resale. I can understand the logic, but there needs to be a threshold when tickets go on resale, not a full sell out.

Yes, we’ve put our prime location season tickets into the buyback scheme on several occasions since it’s inauguration and occasionally they have sold. However, very often they’ve not sold due to a handful remaining in the corners that were probably restricted as well. I’m sure they would have sold if they had been made available when for example 95% of the normal causal seats had gone. Some people are happy to pay for more expensive seats than sit in a corner or high up or beside the away supporters. 

Edited October 14, 2024 by Mutley

[nutty nigel 7,963]

1 hour ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

As a season ticket holder the last two home games I attended were 12.30 KO’s. Living some distance from Norwich I had an early weekend start both times and both were on TV. Hardly incentives to make the effort.

It turned out both were cracking games and in hindsight I’m glad I went but had it not been for having a family member in Norwich who I like to visit regularly I doubt I would have bothered to go.

I know Smiffy. 
These early kick offs weren’t mentioned when we renewed. But keep coming if only to have a chat in the pub after 🍻💬💛⚽️💚

[GMF 1,044]

6 hours ago, NewNestCarrow said:

Flaws: outrageously stingy rebate, only now getting to a level that I consider acceptable

Let’s start with some facts.

If you have a ST in the lower Barclay, supposedly one of the most popular of standard prices seats, it costs you an average of £23.72 per game, if you renewed before the first deadline. If that seat is resold via the buybacks, then the STH receives a £20.00 credit.

Potentially, that seat would be resold for £26.00, or £31.00, or £36.00, or £40.00, depending on the grading of the match.

The rebate for the STH can hardly be described as stingy, in my opinion, and there’s upside for the Club in terms of additional revenue.

However, there are a number of factors to consider, some of which are more controllable than others.

First, as has been said before, the Club doesn’t presently implement the buybacks until all casual tickets have been sold. This is an obvious hurdle to overcome.

Furthermore, not that many games actually sell out each season, but the problem is compounded further when you have regard to the number of seats with restricted views, together with the significant number of unsold single seats that are scattered throughout all blocks. This may be stating the obvious, but single seats are more difficult to shift than pairs, triples or quads.

Second, it’s not uncommon for non-attending STH to be around 10% of the total number of actual ST sold. This figure can climb even higher for televised and / or midweek games. This problem isn’t unique to NCFC, it’s common place to most other clubs, too.

There isn’t one single solution to fixing this, a number of options and proposals have already been discussed, some of which will require input from the ticket office staff. All I can say at the moment is that it’s not being ignored, and it’s under review, for the obvious reasons.

Edited October 14, 2024 by GMF

[Corbs1 183]

I’ve only been to 3 League Home games this season, and on all 3 occasions noticed empty seats. I’ve moved seats this season, and so far it seems normal for many seats to be empty in the row behind me. My initial thoughts were the economic times we are living through. I pass my ticket to a friend on occasions so have never used the buy back scheme. I too rather dislike the non 3 p.m times, although we all accept tv now rules the schedule. 

I’d welcome some flexibility in approaches from the club. Perhaps more help for unemployed or less advantaged fans, maybe we could sponsor someone to attend those games we cannot get to, a buddy system. 

[NewNestCarrow 306]

46 minutes ago, GMF said:

Let’s start with some facts.

If you have a ST in the lower Barclay, supposedly one of the most popular of standard prices seats, it costs you an average of £23.72 per game, if you renewed before the first deadline. If that seat is resold via the buybacks, then the STH receives a £20.00 credit.

Potentially, that seat would be resold for £26.00, or £31.00, or £36.00, or £40.00, depending on the grading of the match.

The rebate for the STH can hardly be described as stingy, in my opinion, and there’s upside for the Club in terms of additional revenue.

However, there are a number of factors to consider, some of which are more controllable than others.

First, as has been said before, the Club doesn’t presently implement the buybacks until all casual tickets have been sold. This is an obvious hurdle to overcome.

Furthermore, not that many games actually sell out each season, but the problem is compounded further when you have regard to the number of seats with restricted views, together with the significant number of unsold single seats that are scattered throughout all blocks. This may be stating the obvious, but single seats are more difficult to shift than pairs, triples or quads.

Second, it’s not uncommon for non-attending STH to be around 10% of the total number of actual ST sold. This figure can climb even higher for televised and / or midweek games. This problem isn’t unique to NCFC, it’s common place to most other clubs, too.

There isn’t one single solution to fixing this, a number of options and proposals have already been discussed, some of which will require input from the ticket office staff. All I can say at the moment is that it’s not being ignored, and it’s under review, for the obvious reasons.

When NCFC offered just a £10 credit - thus generating up to £58 on the resell of a standard seat - that was clearly profiteering. 

Because of this - and the tales of unreliable rebating - fans' confidence that the club can run a decent Buy Back scheme is low.

 

[Rupethebear 29]

So to summarise the buy back price the club offer is far more generous than before although can someone please confirm when you get paid as originally it was I believe a credit on your next ST.

The piece to review is when the club actually starts to sell ‘buy back’ seats as financially I get their point but in reality it means the casual fan may end up with a worse seat.

Maybe the club should have a price category called buy backs and these should always be the same price regardless of the game say £30 a seat and the ST owners always gets a fixed price too say £10, therefore the club gets £20 a go. You could argue the club may be £10 worse off versus selling a real ticket but my point is that the buyer will get a decent seat and hence the club is more likely to make a sale and there’s nothing better than bums on seats. With casual fans also buying refreshments you could argue this scheme may make more financial sense?

 

 

 

 

 

[wcorkcanary 4,839]

12 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

Surely the club would not hold a review if they thought everything was tickety-boo ?

Logic you hint at? What is this magic you know of ? We are simple humans , we need to be outraged , nay , disgusted that the Club has not started a campaign " get it reet , fill that seat" .  The  money given to ST holders on buy back does seem a bit measly though. If only we had someone with  clout, a sharp mind and a no bias approach  to sorting this out ،, a number cruncher perhaps, with a strong sense of justice, transparency  and accountability.