Thomas Tuchel; The new England manager?

[cornish sam 1,058]

22 hours ago, Google Bot said:

You know that Germanic isn't German, right? 🙂

True, but German is Germanic 

[Robert N. LiM 6,435]

One for you, @Yobocop

https://twitter.com/_EnGee/status/1846258682566263151

[percy varco 254]

It does not matter who is England Manager while they try to accomodate players who play in the same position for their clubs in the team. 
Goes back to the Lampard / Gerrard conumdrum, continues to this day. Do the FA insist on all English star players being involved?  
Lucky we don’t have 11 good English Goal Keepers or we would be playing Pickford at centre forward. 
Hope Tuchal has the freedom to do has he pleased. Highly doubt it. 

[dylanisabaddog 6,189]

Perhaps I'm old fashioned but I think the coach is an extension of the team and should be English. That's the whole point of international football in my view, it judges the football skills of one nation against another. We wouldn't play foreigners (apart from Grealish and Rice obviously) so we should have an English coach. 

Having said that, if we're going to have a foreign coach I think Tuchel is the best available. 

[BurwellCanary 257]

How weird would it be in the world Cup when we have to take penalties against Germany. Assume he is team before country but interesting scenario Patriot v Paymasters 

[king canary 8,933]

1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Perhaps I'm old fashioned but I think the coach is an extension of the team and should be English. That's the whole point of international football in my view, it judges the football skills of one nation against another. We wouldn't play foreigners (apart from Grealish and Rice obviously) so we should have an English coach. 

Having said that, if we're going to have a foreign coach I think Tuchel is the best available. 

I thought it would be interesting to see if we're an outlier amongst the top international teams in having a foreign coach- here is the top 20 according to Fifa rankings

Argentina- Lionel Scaloni, Argentinian

France- Didier Deschamps, French

Spain- Lus De La Fuente- Spanish

England- Thomas Tuchel, German

Brazil- Dorival Jr, Brazilian

Belgium- Domenico Todesco, Italian

Netherlands- Ronald Koeman, Dutch

Portugal- Roberto Martinez, Spanish

Colombia- Nestor Lorenzo, Argentinian

Italy- Luciano Spaletti, Italian

Uruguay- Marcelo Bielsa, Argentinian

Croatia- Zlatko Dalic, Croatian

Germany- Julian Nagelsmann, German

Morocco- Walid Regragui, Moroccan

Switzerland- Murat Yakin, Swiss

Japan- Hajime Moriyasu, Japanese

Mexico- Javier Aguirre, Mexican

USA- Mauricio Pochettino, Argentinian 

Iran- Amir Ghalenoe, Iranian

Denmark- Morten Wieghorst, Danish

So 6 of the top 20 have a foreign head coach, meaning we're not unusual in some ways. However most countries with strong, established domestic leagues don't have foreign head coaches. 

The other notable thing is a full 20% of the top 20 international managers are Argentinian so maybe we hired someone from the wrong historic rival nation...

 

[A Load of Squit 6,260]

I'd love it if we had an Argentinian coach for England and he picked a player called Malcolm Vinas.

 

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,486]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

Argentina- Lionel Scaloni, Argentinian

France- Didier Deschamps, French

Spain- Lus De La Fuente- Spanish

England- Thomas Tuchel, German

Brazil- Dorival Jr, Brazilian

Belgium- Domenico Todesco, Italian

Netherlands- Ronald Koeman, Dutch

Portugal- Roberto Martinez, Spanish

Colombia- Nestor Lorenzo, Argentinian

Italy- Luciano Spaletti, Italian

Uruguay- Marcelo Bielsa, Argentinian

Croatia- Zlatko Dalic, Croatian

Germany- Julian Nagelsmann, German

Morocco- Walid Regragui, Moroccan

Switzerland- Murat Yakin, Swiss

Japan- Hajime Moriyasu, Japanese

Mexico- Javier Aguirre, Mexican

USA- Mauricio Pochettino, Argentinian 

Iran- Amir Ghalenoe, Iranian

Denmark- Morten Wieghorst, Danish

What that list shows is that England have probably landed themselves the best Head Coach/Manager in international football right now (there is an argument that Nagelsmann is better, but I'd go Tuchel). I can see why the FA have gone this route, Tuchel is a winner and they want to win something after a couple of near misses.

While it would be nice to have an English manager, aside from Potter (and he may not even be interested, given the rumblings around Man U) there isn't anyone who would be a good option. Football in England is probably more obsessed with managers than any other country, but is bad a producing them. Imagine the complaining if England hired the equivalent to Lus De La Fuente.

[Satriales 1,049]

2 hours ago, BurwellCanary said:

How weird would it be in the world Cup when we have to take penalties against Germany. Assume he is team before country but interesting scenario Patriot v Paymasters 

Yeah it would be weird, but he's not taking the penalties himself is he.

[king canary 8,933]

39 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

What that list shows is that England have probably landed themselves the best Head Coach/Manager in international football right now (there is an argument that Nagelsmann is better, but I'd go Tuchel). I can see why the FA have gone this route, Tuchel is a winner and they want to win something after a couple of near misses.

While it would be nice to have an English manager, aside from Potter (and he may not even be interested, given the rumblings around Man U) there isn't anyone who would be a good option. Football in England is probably more obsessed with managers than any other country, but is bad a producing them. Imagine the complaining if England hired the equivalent to Lus De La Fuente.

Eh, I'm sceptical about that claim to be honest. He's had a good record but he's never managed in international football and is seemingly well known as someone who falls out with players and executives. We'll see but I don't see this one ending well.

[hogesar 10,935]

43 minutes ago, king canary said:

Eh, I'm sceptical about that claim to be honest. He's had a good record but he's never managed in international football and is seemingly well known as someone who falls out with players and executives. We'll see but I don't see this one ending well.

My hope is, generally speaking, he's fallen out with his bosses over recruitment / players / whatever.

International football is different. He hasn't got SD's or owners telling him to play players he doesn't rate because they spent big money.

He's also not with the players for anywhere near the same time. It might be that it suits him. What he does do is win stuff, generally.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,486]

38 minutes ago, king canary said:

Eh, I'm sceptical about that claim to be honest. He's had a good record but he's never managed in international football and is seemingly well known as someone who falls out with players and executives. We'll see but I don't see this one ending well.

I'd say he is on a different level to managers like Roberto Martinez, Ronald Koeman, Spallett and Deschamps. Tuchel is known for being a difficult personality, but it could be that is fairly marginalised in international football where he spends less time with the players, and as others have mentioned can't argue with boards about transfers etc. 

For me, Tuchel is probably in the top 10 coaches in the world at the moment. His pragmatism is also suited to international football as having too fixed a philosophy is hard when you can't sign players to implement a style. He's also a bit of a cup competition specialist, which suits as well.  

He definitely won't be in the job for a prolonged period of time, but seems a very good choice to get England through the World Cup and then there be time to make a decision afterwards. 

[cambridgeshire canary 7,915]

3 hours ago, BurwellCanary said:

How weird would it be in the world Cup when we have to take penalties against Germany. Assume he is team before country but interesting scenario Patriot v Paymasters 

Just wait until Tuchel hears England fans booing the German national anthem and singing ten German bombers..

[BurwellCanary 257]

16 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Just wait until Tuchel hears England fans booing the German national anthem and singing ten German bombers..

Cant believe they would be so insensitive

[cambridgeshire canary 7,915]

2 minutes ago, BurwellCanary said:

Cant believe they would be so insensitive

 

[Pyro Pete 2,384]

Four Four Two make a convincing argument that Tuchel could actually be a good fit for England.

 

[TheGunnShow 7,469]

21 hours ago, Robert N. LiM said:

This is basically what I meant. I know what you mean about the FA having little clout but they made that bed when they were instrumental in setting up the PL in the first place.

We have a lot of excellent imported players in England but we're not really a serious football country. We take football incredibly seriously, but we don't really take it seriously.

German football is serious but never hopeless, English football is hopeless, but never serious (to borrow and amend a quote from a former Irish rugby player whose name escapes me).

As with pretty much any poor schmuck in the England job, they're practically on a hiding to nothing. Tuchel will basically appeal to those who like a manager with a proven club record (then managed to fluff it with Bayern Munich after getting Harry Kane up top!) and who can be a little bit spiky on occasion, compared to the ever-affable Southgate. However, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if some of the more rabid/moronic/braindead media elements in the UK use his German nationality as a stick to beat him with at some point.

Chuck in the almost inevitable guff that "it's coming home" (presumably on the same flight as Maddie McCann or that penalty Kane whacked over the bar in Qatar against France) and a press that also likes hyping up home-grown players before they've ever done too much and you end up with an atmosphere of somewhat febrile entitlement.

If he falls short, Southgate will - or should be, at least - be retrospectively given his props. Although I suspect much of the sports media don't have the strength of character to admit that if this is to take place.

[Robert N. LiM 6,435]

9 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

However, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if some of the more rabid/moronic/braindead media elements in the UK use his German nationality as a stick to beat him with at some point.

This has already happened. The Mail called yesterday 'a dark day for England'. I've said in this thread that I can see the merit in the idea that the coach of a national team should be of that nationality, but I found the xenophobia of that headline shocking even by their standards.

[TheGunnShow 7,469]

1 minute ago, Robert N. LiM said:

This has already happened. The Mail called yesterday 'a dark day for England'. I've said in this thread that I can see the merit in the idea that the coach of a national team should be of that nationality, but I found the xenophobia of that headline shocking even by their standards.

What, the Daily Wail in crying about a German manager with a far better club record than any top English manager going because they're managing the national team shocker?

I'll take their pathetic howls of pseudo-patriotism more seriously when their owners come back to the UK and not **** off to France due to taxes there.

[Robert N. LiM 6,435]

1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

What, the Daily Wail in crying about a German manager with a far better club record than any top English manager going because they're managing the national team shocker?

I'll take their pathetic howls of pseudo-patriotism more seriously when their owners come back to the UK and not **** off to France due to taxes there.

Thing I don't get is who they're appealing to these days. Just as a straw poll, is anyone on here bothered that he's German specifically (as opposed to the more general argument of the idea that international football should be a test of your country's footballing strength, in coaching as well as playing)? Feels like the legacy media are writing for an audience that's all but disappeared.

[Google Bot 3,995]

29 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Just as a straw poll, is anyone on here bothered that he's German specifically

I'd be amazed if any City supporter is bothered.  We had so much love for a German coach, backroom staff and players, I just don't see how there could be any anti-german sentimentality here.

People preferring nations to have a manager from that nation, I do understand.

But, Many international players have multi-national backgrounds where their parents couldn't play for the national team that they do so the whole thing is a bit of a lottery really, especially when you consider a player like Sterling through what happened as a child to being a key England player.

Tuchel clearly wanted the job and has true admiration for the English game and culture.  For me that's enough to have him as 'one of our own'! 🙂

[king canary 8,933]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

German football is serious but never hopeless, English football is hopeless, but never serious (to borrow and amend a quote from a former Irish rugby player whose name escapes me).

Nice soundbite but obviously nonsense.

German football has been hopeless on many occasions. 

[Yobocop 1,471]

On 16/10/2024 at 20:07, Robert N. LiM said:

One for you, @Yobocop

https://twitter.com/_EnGee/status/1846258682566263151

Brilliant mate 

[Capt. Pants 5,151]

Interesting 10 people interviewed including some English candidates according to Bullingham, although Eddie Howe has confirmed he wasn't one of them.

Edited October 18, 2024 by Capt. Pants

[dylanisabaddog 6,189]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

Interesting 10 people interviewed including some English candidates according to Bullingham, although Eddie Howe has confirmed he wasn't one of them.

I heard that on the news and thought they said the FA had spoken to 4 English people. One will presumably have been Carsley but God knows who the other 3 were. 

[hogesar 10,935]

23 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I heard that on the news and thought they said the FA had spoken to 4 English people. One will presumably have been Carsley but God knows who the other 3 were. 

Southgate in a variety of different moustache-based disguises.

[OnDaBall 141]

Didn't the FA at the start of the process intimate that the successful applicant would ideally have experience of coaching and winning at the highest level, and have experience of managing in England?

So that ruled out an English appointment from the start, Howe would be the stand out English candidate, but doesn't fit the criteria.

I think the only English route they would have gone down would have been a top ex England player, so Lampard, Gerrard or Rooney.  One of them or Tuchel?

[Mason 47 2,016]

Nobody was particularly bothered that the women's side won a competition with Wiegman in charge. I doubt any of the current rampant medua nationalism will remember their current outrage should Tuchel do the same.

[TheGunnShow 7,469]

On 17/10/2024 at 14:58, Robert N. LiM said:

Thing I don't get is who they're appealing to these days. Just as a straw poll, is anyone on here bothered that he's German specifically (as opposed to the more general argument of the idea that international football should be a test of your country's footballing strength, in coaching as well as playing)? Feels like the legacy media are writing for an audience that's all but disappeared.

I'm pretty sure "window-licking jingoistic cretins" is the answer to this one.

[Mr Angry 2,093]

16 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

I'm pretty sure "window-licking jingoistic cretins" is the answer to this one.

Aren't they all in jail now following the prosecutions of people involved in the riots in the aftermath of the Southport murders?